[JLStorm]

I currently use an HK which I love, but I have a friend who is debating between HK and Sig. I am having trouble giving him unbiased advice, mostly because of my love afair with HK and the fact that HK offers more options for a left handed shooter like myself IMO, so I tend to stick with them, however my friend is right handed and does not have to deal with that luckily.

I know we all have our favorites and some people think one is better than the other. In my experience I have found that you really cant go wrong with either one, but that every gun and manufacturer has certain specialties that they bring into their products which may out perform another.

So without bringin our love for a particular brand or model into it, can anyone give mostly unbiased pros and cons of each?

I would like to compare HK handguns against Sig in general terms, and also compare the USP line against the P220, 226, 229

[CountGlockula]

I've checked out a Sig 226, 229, Homeland Security and HK USPs & P2K and honestly both are great guns. Your friend will not be disappointed.

Have him rent out both at the local range a couple of times and make the decision there.

[10-Ring]

I have only owned one SIG & it was a certified lemon...I own several HKs & love'em all. Recommend them highly to anyone asking! Great guns all around

[hkenvy91]

well i havent any experiance with the sig lineup ,i do own 2 hk's 1 tac/1compact both 45's. no problems yet !:evil:

[FEATHERWEIGHT]

I have both sigs and h&k. Depending on caliber I would recommend a p220 for .45 or a p226 for 9mm. H&K p7 or a USP. The USP LEM trigger is the only consideration. The only difference preference ans customer service.

[lamazza]

I really don't like the long thin grips on the later model sigs-that alone would make up my mind.

[hksw]

I've got a few USPs and P22Xs. I like both platforms but the one I like the best of them is the P226. It simply feels to be the best fitting in my hand.

[SoCalShooter]

Fired both many many many times. Before I bought my first handgun. And I bought my HK USP.

[HGUNHNTR]

I like the HK, but both are quality.

[yongxingfreesty]

hk usp are nice, sig i never shot so i wouldnt know

[Autolycus]

I have 2 HKs already. When I move to a free state I will definately bring them with me. I plan to use my P2000 for carry and my P2000sk as a BUG if I feel that I will be going into a bad spot. They are excellent guns. I purchased them with the LEM trigger and night sights in .40 S&W.

I have been drooling over a Sig 228 a lot lately. They look like a great gun for plinking and home defense. I want to get a 9mm and it looks like an excellent gun.

Overall you cannot go wrong with either of these guns. They are excellent companies and come highly recommended. I think that it really depends on your friends needs. It really will have to boil down to what he wants in the gun. The HKs will probably be lighter as they are "fantastic plastic". But if he likes steel guns then he will have to look to the Sig lineup. But Sig does have the Sig Pro series which is a plastic gun that is not often praised as it should be.

Either way take him to the range and rent the guns out to see what he likes best.

[STAGE 2]

design innovation - HK
customer service - sig
all metal - sig
ridiculous reliability - HK
spelling coke in a different cool way - HK

[Autolycus]

I believe that HKs customer service has imrpoved drastically since they hired out someone else to take care of it. I have heard mixed reports of Sig but from the majority of the reports it seems that it is still positive.

[gudel]

this is really beating a dead horse. :banghead:

BUY BOTH NEW SIG AND HK. I did.

Bottom line: The HK is superior weapon, outperforms the sig in finish quality, workmanship quality, and most importantly in any weapons, reliability.

[Kontiki]

what he said, get them both as theyeach have different qualities that make them great guns.

[JLStorm]

In a perfect world that would be a perfect solution, but as it is either one of these is going to put a huge dent in his bank account. There is no possible way he could afford both, and the one he chooses will be used for competition and carry so he needs at least one of them sooner rather than later.

He has shot both of them and likes them both, he is having a very hard time deciding, which is why I started this thread because I have an obvious bias towards HK and not much experience with SIG.

[Edmond]

Since both isn't an option, I say either one is good enough. I sold my P229 because I bought it used and I'm ultimately going to get a brand new one just like I did with all my other pistols. But I would trust my life to either HK or SIG and I have.

Both are well made, accurate and shoot well.

You will not go wrong with either one. But if you are going to carry the gun for a long period of time, the classic SIG series might not be for you since they can get quite heavy over the period of a long day.

Go with either one, you will not be disappointed in either one.

[browningguy]

Both are overpriced Eurotrash, get a Norinco.:)

Just had to throw that out. Both are good (if not inexpensive) pistols. I don't have a pony in this race but my opinion, based on the few of each have shot, is get the one that points best for you and fits your hand best. I doubt there is a nickles worth of difference in reliability, both are well proven manufacturers.

[DogBonz]

well, sort of. I have a sig 229 and a HK usp45. for a 9mm, i would go sig all day long, but in 45 I'll take the HK. Don't get me wtong, the 220 is a great weapon, but my HK has proven itself to be the most reliable firearm in my collecton, and can be carried cocked and locked. They are both great guns, but my personal preference is dependent on calliber and size.

[..]

Can't stand HK's, overpriced dressed up Glocks IMO. Not to mention their crappy attitude towards civilians. For polymer M&P is the new standard. If he wants a metal frame go with the Sig, they are sweet all around.

[Gixerman1000]

I own 7 Sig's and 7 HK's, they all have been great shooters and totally reliable, just get the one that fits you best.

[mmissile]

I have both, but quite a few more Hk's. If you are a metal frame/traditional kinda guy....SIG is the obvious choice. If you want modern technology, options, and the history of innovation....Hk. They are both premium firearms, and have been completely reliable and user friendly. They also have a resale value. I've personally never had an issues with customer service from Hk. They made any issue correct, timely, and free of charge.

[alpha6164]

I have a Sig 226 9mm purchased in 1992 and have put over 20K rounds thru it. There has not been a single malfunction, not one! It still shoots like the first day. I also just got a HK P7M8 a few weeks ago and I am amazed at this gun. The hype is definitely not over rated about this gun. It truely is the most accurate 9mm every produced.

You can't go wrong with either choice.

[Mayo]

SIG is better then the USP line---however the P7M* series is every bit as good as SIG.

[blackpanther]

H&K USP test= 30,000 +P and 6,000 proof loads in .45 cal.
Sig=????

The design is worth the money.

Ed

[jwerlc]

If he likes them both, he should go with the one that fits his hand best. If he sees no difference there, flip a coin. I see no way he can go wrong. I own a Sig, my cousin has an HK USP I shoot them back to back and love 'em both. Neither of us has ever needed customer support, and my suspicion is that if either of us will, both companies will back the guns.

Again last resort; flip a coin. No losers in this debate.

[gr8cook]

This turned out to be an interesting thread. I really thought it would totally suck.

I agree though, he definitely should get one, definitely.

Tom Cruise used the USP in Collateral but De Niro carried a P220 in Heat.:uhoh:

Hard decision. :D

What a delicious dilemma! (you lucky SOB)

Cook

[Ares45]

For polymer M&P is the new standard.

Awesome. THANKS! I needed a good laugh.

Getting back to real guns...

The only way your friend can get what's right for him is handling and shooting all the options. Let the gun pick you, not the other way around.

HK gets top marks for accuracy, reliability, mag capacity, weight, & versatility. The only minus is a not so great DA trigger.

Sig Sauer scores points for accuracy, reliability, and a good stock trigger. The drawbacks (IMO) are single stack mag capacity and the weight of an all steel gun.

[hksw]

For polymer M&P is the new standard.

Er, how is the M&P better than the offerings from Glock, SIG, HK, et. al.?

[gr8cook]

Er, what is M&P?

Cook

[Nightcrawler]

...I can offer a few thoughts.

The Sig will be more ergonomic for those with small hands. HKs are bigger in the grip.

The Sig has a conventional magazine release lever, whereas the HK has a push-down paddle. It's ambidextrious, but it takes some getting used to.

The HK USP needs an adapter to mount picatinny-standard lights. Sigs with rails don't require this. HK was one of the very first to put a light mount on their guns, and they used a proprietary mounting surface.

The Sig's controls are not lefty-friendly. The slide release, while easy to reach for a righty, is impossible to use for a lefty. The HK can be converted for left hand use.

Sigs tend to have better triggers.

The HK can be carried cocked & locked or decocked. Like the Taurus guns that also have the decocker/safety as one lever, though, there is a problem. If you mash the safety lever down too hard (under stress), push it down into decock, and hold it there (trying to shoot with your thumb on the safety like people do with 1911s) you'll effectively disable the gun. For me, I'd either convert it to single action only or decock only. I don't personally like having the safety and decocker as the same control.

On average, the Sig will be smaller and/or thinner, making it easy to conceal.

Since it was asked, this (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15711&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708) is the M&P.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson//upload/images/firearms/209000_large.jpg

Since we're discussing hammer fired guns, I'd recommend taking the FNP series (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fnp_series.htm) into consideration. They're much more affordable and I've heard nothing but good things about them. The control lever is a decocker, where you push down to drop the hammer, and it's ambidextrious. For a little more money, you can get the Browning (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/category.asp?value=007B) variant, but they're all made by FN. The Browning control lever also works as a manual safety. I'm unsure if you can carry it cocked & locked or not.

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/guns_525px/fn_hg_fnp40.gif
FNP .40

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/051252m.jpg
Browning PRO 9mm

[gr8cook]

Does M&P stand for "Metal and Plastic"?

Cook

[mwpslp]

I believe....Military & Police.

[JLStorm]

Why is my Sig and HK thread turning into a smith and wesson plastic gun thread? We arent interested in M&P. Could a Moderator please delete these posts which take this thread off topic???

Have som respect and start your own threads for guns that you want to talk about if they are not made by Sig or HK, how hard is that??? :banghead:

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, JLStorm. I don't know but it always seems to happen.

Please folks, let's stay on topic as requested by the original poster and compare HK vs. SIG.

Thanks in advance.

Best.

[mpmarty]

HK = lighter and higher mag capacity
SIG = smaller grip, better da trigger pull

Decide based on your hand size, weight tolerance and mag capacity wants.

[Zen21Tao]

I have an HK USP fullsize and 2 Sigs (the P239 in .40S&W and the P245). I could never pick between them. They are all excellent guns. For a home defense gun I would have to give higher points to the HK. Whereas the Sig takes the cake when it comes to concealed carry.

[Janos Dracwlya]

I can only comment on the Sigs as I have no real experience with the H&K guns. I own a Sig P-225 which is my carry gun. I bought it used and have never had any problems with it. It has been completely reliable and is more accurate than I am. I also once owned a P-226. Again, I never had a single problem with it (though I did not own it for very long); I used it in 3-Gun competitions and practically could not miss with it. The only problem I had with it at all was that I felt it was just a little big in my hand, although this never caused me any problems.

All of that can be summed up by saying that your friend will not go wrong buying a Sig.

[doubleg]

H&K .40

[gr8cook]

In the interest of getting things not just back on track but also perhaps culling out a little bit more information, what is your friend's intended application for the pistol?

My apologies for the thread jack.

Cook

[51Cards]

Sig 229/.40.
A+
Eats everything, does what it's designed to every time. I have one other gun that does that.

[Walkalong]

clicked wrong link....Duhhhhhhhhhhh

[JLStorm]

In response to the question aboutthe use of the gun, it will be his home defense and ccw. I carry an hk uspf with no problems, but he has a much snaller frame than I do. He is trying to decide between a uspc or onde of the sif compact or full size models. Personally I thing a sig is probably easier to conceal since its single stack. But with the right holster you can conceal damn near aything IMO.

[marzen]

Well, I am too new at this sport to give any advises but I can share my experiences if that counts.

I got my P228 first and have about 700 rounds through it and yesterday I took my HK P2000 to the range. Well, after shooting 100 rounds through each guns, I can tell you Sig groups were alot tighter than HK groups were.

Now, when I asked this question to an instructor at the range he says following and I have taken this as a grain of salt

"Well, almost 9 out of 10 people who tries both guns always says they shot tighter group with Sig. The reason is Sig and HK has very different grip angle. Sig appears to be much more natural in people's hand. Along with lighter SA trigger on your Sig vs HK for instance, you will shoot tighter groups. One can learn to shoot HK better as they are both phenonenally well made guns. Perhaps, you can change out the grip to a larger grip on that HK and see how that changes the outcome."

Well, I shot much better with Sig yesterday but I am not about to write off HK P2000 yet. I have replaced the grip to a larger one which indeed changed the way it is angled off my hand. Also, I am new at this so I am sure I will get better with time.

For what its worth....


-Andrew

[threefeathers]

I have several of both. I would rely on either for my life. My daily carry is a Sig 229 in a Wild Bill No Such Agency holster and I had to draw it to stop a violent felon last June. But, my P2K in 9mm is so light and accurate it will at least suppliant my Sig as soon as Bill gets off his ass and gets my holster to me.
A note of caution, for all CCW carry you have to have a holster that is up to the job. It must be comfortably or you will find that you don't carry.

[RandySneed]

Here is some unique insight into both systems. As a retired SEAL,Federal Agent (US State Dept DSS) and former Employee of Sigarms Inc as a Law Enforcement/Government Regional Manager, I offer the following:

I carried a 9mm P226 for many years in the 'Teams', through some of the most undesirable conditions you can think of(mud, salt water, sand, ice and every other kind of spooge). Never ONCE did I experience any malfunctions with this weapon. Having sent tons of lead downrange with Sig handguns, mostly P226 and P220, I have only the highest regard for the tactical superiority of the system. The Bulls Eye Shooting Center in WA has a P220 with a documented ONE MILLION rounds through the gun (A rental gun).

We were issued the M23 HK Offensive Pistol for evaluation and after a reasonable trial, they were put in mothballs and not reissued. The reasons were: With the suppressor attached the M23 was only slightly shorter than our TO long gun (HK MP5SD)with the stock collapsed, and did not suppress as well. The decocker was so loud, it could be heard 100 clicks away on a still night.

While the USP system is very good and reliable; my personal opinion is that they are larger than they need to be mission capable, and have an unacceptable decocker. Either weapon is a good choice for shooting at the range, desert, or local gravel pit. When my life is at risk and there is no room for error or second chances; you will find a P226 in my hand.

Again, just my opinion from using both systems in the environment and conditions they were designed to be used in. As recreational pistols, both are superb. A plus for the 1911 shooter, with the USP you sweep for the safety just like your 1911.

The overwhelming choice for Federal Elite Agencies and SOCOM Operators are the Sig or 1911 systems. The FBI still issues G***K except for HRT who use 1911's....but what do a bunch of lawyers and accountants know?

I will no doubt get a lot of flack for my position; but what the hell, the only easy day was yesterday.

HooYa

"Life is tough, it's REALLY tough if you are stupid"

[Dollar An Hour]

I own 2 Sigs and zero HK's.

Sigs feel better in my hands, have better trigger pulls, and have better customer service should you need them.

Sig CS turned my gun around in 17 days. Between a friend and I, we sent 3 handguns back to S&W this year. The fastest they turned any of those around was 30 days. I bring up S&W because they're often referred to as the benchmark.

On the examples I've tried, for the price HK is asking, I think the trigger pull is embarassing. :o

[birdv]

I love HK but the pistols are fat (chl no no)and the rifles are heavy(I am lazy).

G36 is top heavy with that brick of an optic.(But I would still buy one if I could)
556 is ordered (But not in my hands so I cannot say)

[RandySneed]

Deleted due to double post......sorry

[lesjones]

I liked this graphic from ColtCCO (http://coltcco.blogspot.com/2006/12/hk-blackwater-krauts-mercs.html):

http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/hkoolaid.jpg

[pistolman1974]

I had to make the same decision twice. It was hard. The first time I was replacing a gun stolen from my house. Between the two I chose the sig. The second time I was considering selling/trading my sig. someone offered to trade an HK for it. I decided to keep the sig.

IMO the sig is very pleasant to shoot. I can't say the same about the USP. The checkering on the USP was a bit sharp for me.

I would advise the Sig.

[Grunt]

Well, I have both a USP-45F, USP-40C on the HK side and a P220 and P226 on the Classic Sig side. Personally, I pefer the HK better. It's not that the Sig is a bad gun (if it was, I would have gotten rid of them years ago) but the problem is I grew up with the 1911. My HKs have similar controls in similar locations. My Sigs on the other hand are backwards with the decocking lever being located in the slide release spot and the slide release being located in the safety lever spot...and I have gotten them mixed up before!:o For this reason, I don't mind my Sigs as range toys but for home defense I turn to my USP-45F and for carry I'll pack my USP-40C.

[Stevie-Ray]

just get the one that fits you best.Couldn't have said it any better than that. I've said this many times, but I decided on H&K over Sig by picking them up and quickly clearing the sights. The H&K pointed much more naturally for me. YMMV. It was between a USP45C and a P220 Carry. I Love the H&K and wouldn't consider a Sig, now. I've even tried the P226 on for size, because I simply thought it was the best 9mm out there. The grip doesn't fit my hand at all. Both excellent firearms. Try them both. One of them will be the one.