Garand value: would it be fair to say that pretty much any WWII era garand...


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1KPerDay
December 20, 2006, 07:46 PM
in reasonably good, shootable condition is worth about $600 or more? Even if it's been rebuilt, parts not matching, etc?

From what I can see on the CMP site, the rack grade guns may be pretty well beat up, cracked stocks, pitted metal, etc. and they go for $400 or so...

I'm hopefully buying a Garand today (haven't seen it yet) and supposedly it is WWII era manufacture. As I've said before I really don't know anything other than I want one. I realize there are a bazillion M1 threads but it's almost too much for me to absorb at this point. The CMP is sold out of the service grades so I can't get an idea of price, but the next highest grade starts at $900 so I imagine a service grade usually goes for $600 or so, right?:confused:

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Ilovemyglock
December 20, 2006, 07:48 PM
I have 2 M-1 Garands...... one i shoot quite often, Fair shape...
The other is an original.. unfired ...M-1... Appraised @ 12k:)

ocabj
December 20, 2006, 07:48 PM
$600 is fair market value assuming the rifle is in good condition, has mixed parts, and has a decent bore. TE < 5 and MW < 3. Some people have really high standards and won't accept anything worse than a 3 TE and 2 MW as being a service grade.

The other is an original.. unfired ...M-1... Appraised @ 12k

What's the history of the rifle? Who appraised it? Duff? Assuming it is an authentic original M1, you need to build a data sheet for it, since it would be valuable information for collectors.

1KPerDay
December 20, 2006, 07:49 PM
Thanks ocabj. Unfortunately I don't have gauges so I'll have to guesstimate on the condition of the muzzle and throat.:uhoh:

ocabj
December 20, 2006, 07:51 PM
http://www.stoneaxeengineering.com/ - less than $50 for both the throat and muzzle gauge

Ilovemyglock
December 20, 2006, 08:01 PM
ocabj, it is all documented w/data sheet all intact.
Was from my great grandad, who lived in ontario canada.
Thats all im gonna say...... oh, the appraisal was done by a VERY EXPERIENCED appraiser....he told me he would purchace the gun for 15k
and put it in a museum. sp?<
This guy almost lost his gourd when he saw the gun!! LOL
the one i shoot he appraised @ 4k. He wanted that one too:neener:
Now both are in the safe with the huimidor running,12 hrs a day.

musher
December 20, 2006, 10:21 PM
Ilovemyglock, why do you only store your cigars with your garands 12 hrs a day?

It would be interesting to see the data sheets for both your rifles, if you could post them. I admit a bit of curiosity over their value.

As to the original question, I'd expect to pay between 600 and 800 for a WWII rebuild in halfway decent shape.

MechAg94
December 20, 2006, 10:36 PM
If you go to the CMP store, they have WWII and post WWII numbered receivers on the racks as field grade.

They even had a few I saw that were under 1 million serial numbers.
New barrel and new stock and you have yourself a nice WWII era Garand.

Guy B. Meredith
December 21, 2006, 01:08 AM
1KPerDay,

Check out the CMP offers again. Go to the store for the best selection.

I have two field grades purchased luck of the draw via mail, one with good stock, mostly WWII parts and shoots about 3 or so MOA. I have another that has a stock with repairs, post WWII parts and shoots under 1.75 MOA. I am not going to bother changing the stock on the second M1 as the repairs are cosmetic and don't affect the accuracy.

The first was $395 last year, the second $425 with the new prices. Seeing an M1 in the local shop for $700 made me make the move to buy from CMP. In my opionion, it you can buy one from the CMP for $425, I would not pay $600.

Gewehr98
December 21, 2006, 02:23 AM
Of my 3 M1 Garand rifles, one is a Secretary of the Navy Trophy Garand that came to me through the DCM (Makes me wonder how it got to Anniston) that I should have appraised. Every now and then Scott Duff gets one in, that's how I track prices and adjust my USAA insurance policy accordingly. ;)

sgtdevildog
December 21, 2006, 08:23 AM
The last batch of service grades (usgi) were going for $550 a piece. I purchased two through CMP - luck of the draw. One is a Dec 1943 receiver with winchester trigger group, the othe, a mostly correct early 1955 model. Love em both and probably going to the South store after the first of the year.

1KPerDay
December 21, 2006, 12:35 PM
Well the deed is done, and for better or worse, I'm happy. I got an M1 and an M1 Tanker in .30-06 (I know they weren't made that way, right?). Both in seemingly stellar condition; the stock on the tanker is obviously new, and I believe both have been rebarrelled and probably reparkerized. The stock on the M1 is old-looking, lots of shallow dings, but no cracks, and fits well.

If you please, someone tell me the history/origin/date of the following:
(I'm particularly interested in the apparent similarity in the numbers on the trigger groups/front right of receivers; I'm assuming those are marks from the "rebuilder")

M1 Garand:
Receiver:
U.S. Rifle
CAL 30 M1
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY
30156XX
Front right of receiver under op-rod handle:
D 28291 34
Above that: looks like Y 0 8 B

Trigger group:
D28290-8-SA

Front of barrel:
BLUE SKY/ARLINGTON VA.
Rear of barrel:
2 S A 7 44

Bolt:
D28287-1 W.R.A. (Winchester, right?)

Op rod:
D 35382 SA


M1 Tanker:


Receiver:
U.S. Rifle
CAL 30 M1
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY
10041XX
Front right of receiver under op-rod:
D 28291-17
Above that: looks like R 3 SS

Trigger group:
D28290-5-SA
Bottom plate inside rear: 24

Op rod:
35382 8 SA

Rear of barrel:
looks like Fed.Ord.Inc.S.E.M.CA 3006

Bolt: 6528287-SA
B-2-0

1KPerDay
December 21, 2006, 01:59 PM
http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/m1serial.htm

According to this, one receiver was made in 1942 and the other in 1944... does that sound right? Any info on the parts/barrels/etc?




Also found some good info here: http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm

Johnpl
December 21, 2006, 02:31 PM
I would be hesitant to say that any WWII era M-1 is worth a minimum of $600...beware of the re-welds!:(

MechAg94
December 21, 2006, 03:42 PM
I think if the CMP ever actually does run out of M1's, just about any M1 in decent condition will be worth $600 or more.

Ilovemyglock
December 21, 2006, 04:15 PM
The Data sheet is in my safety deposit box at the bank,
I can tell you this its a 1939 gas trap..................

1KPerDay
December 21, 2006, 06:01 PM
Well, from googling and searching old threads I've found that Blue Sky (later morphed into Arlington Ordnance) imported M1s and carbines from Korea (reimports) and some have had bad experience with them, while others have had no trouble. I guess I'll have to shoot it and see how it functions, eh?:D

BTW, I assume national match ammo is the proper pressure to run an M1? I have some 1962 vintage stuff.

1KPerDay
December 21, 2006, 06:33 PM
For those (none) interested, the other ("Tanker"/T-26 replica) would seem to be a buildup by Federal Ordnance on a Springfield action, and has a similar (questionable) reputation. From what I've read, some hate the thought of them, some claim they're all "re-welds", some claim they're garbage, and the 2or 3 people I can find who actually have owned/shot them say they liked them and had no problem with them, and would buy another if they had the chance.

Hmmm.... I guess it all comes down to how they work, doesn't it? Hopefully I'll find out soon.:cool: What's a good place to buy M1 clips? I have a couple but would like some more.

I'd still like some feedback from gurus as to whether the document numbers on the receivers and receiver serial numbers seem to match up.

George S.
December 21, 2006, 07:52 PM
If you want a good supply of en bloc clips, buy some of the Greek HPX ammo from the CMP that comes in spam cans complete with bandoleers and loaded clips. http://www.odcmp.com/ammo.htm

National Match ammo will work fine but you should stay with military ball ammo made for the Garand. You can get Korean surplus from various online ammo sourdes (get the PS headstamp stuff; the KA headstamp ammo is corrosive and will require extra cleaning) The CMP ammo, either the Greek or the USGI Lake City, is great stuff and very reasonable priced.

1KPerDay
December 21, 2006, 07:57 PM
Thanks.:cool:

What's the difference between regular lake city and national match ammo? I have some of both.

Is the national match the 162 grain stuff (IIRC)? And regular military ball is 150 grain?

AZ Jeff
December 21, 2006, 08:09 PM
NM ammo will be loaded with the 173 gr FMJBT bullet.

M2 ball ammo will be loaded with a 150 gr FMJ flat based bullet.

AZ Jeff
December 21, 2006, 08:16 PM
SOME "Tankers" made in the 1960's and 70's, when recievers were in short supply, were crafted from rewelded receivers. Stuff made by Fed. Ord falls into this category. That is NOT to say that ALL Fed. Ord. stuff is rewelds, but SOME of them are.

Most experienced M1 persons say that no reweld is totally safe, and they cite good reasons why, mostly related to the fact that the 8600 series steels used in GI M1 receivers does not weld very easily nor well.

That said, there are probably thousands of M1's made up in the 60's and 70's with welded receivers, and you don't hear of lots of catastrophic failures.

Tankers are finicky beasts, and even when using a good receiver and good parts, it sometimes takes significant work to get them to run right. I know mine took several months of fiddling after I screwed it together to get it to be 100% reliable, and I used a CMP receiver and all good parts from known good sources. If you have a Tanker than runs, be happy with it.

Guy B. Meredith
December 22, 2006, 01:12 AM
For really great info on your rifle check out

http://battlerifle0.tripod.com/

An amazing site. For dates check out

http://www.jouster.com/serial/Springfield.html

These sites list the serial numbers of the rifles using the parts and when the rifle with that serial number was built.

1KPerDay
December 22, 2006, 12:26 PM
Thanks Jeff and Guy. Some good info.:cool:

musher
December 23, 2006, 01:12 AM
1Kperday,

Fulton Armory's site has an a FAQ with some pretty good info on determining if a GARAND receiver is rewelded. Lots of pictures.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/Weld.htm

Gator
December 23, 2006, 06:56 PM
The Data sheet is in my safety deposit box at the bank,
I can tell you this its a 1939 gas trap..................

Get it re-appraised! An original gas-trap will bring three times that today, and maybe more.

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 12:55 PM
Musher, thank you very much. :cool: Now I'm (justifiably) paranoid.:D

Can someone with better reading comprehension skills than I please tell me if the receivers and drawing numbers match up correctly on these? If I can get a difinitive answer I promise I won't bother you garand guys again for a while. :p


Receiver:
U.S. Rifle
CAL 30 M1
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY
10041XX
Front right of receiver under op-rod:
D 28291-17


Receiver:
U.S. Rifle
CAL 30 M1
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY
30156XX
Front right of receiver under op-rod handle:
D 28291 34

alamo
December 26, 2006, 01:16 PM
Can someone with better reading comprehension skills than I please tell me if the receivers and drawing numbers match up correctly on these?

My understanding from following the CMP forum is that the drawing numbers on various parts have nothing to do with the serial number on the receiver, i.e., they won't and aren't supposed to match.

alamo
December 26, 2006, 01:27 PM
Here is a good explanation of drawing numbers. It looks like can tell if some parts were made postwar. Even if you determine your parts were not made after your rifle was built, it doesn't mean the parts in your rifle are the original parts it was made with or that they "match".

http://www.scott-duff.com/drawing_number.htm

GRIZ22
December 26, 2006, 01:31 PM
The drawing numbers wopuld be correct for a particular serial number range. For example trigger group 123456 would be correct for a Garand with serial number range 2,000,000 to 2,200,000. All the numbers on the parts would be correct for a serial number range but there would be no way of knowing if the gun left the factory with those parts unless someone actually took in out of the bag, box, or whatever it was shipped from the factory in.

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 01:34 PM
The drawing numbers wopuld be correct for a particular serial number range.

That was my understanding as well. So can someone point me to a source that has the proper serial number range for the receiver drawing numbers above? I just want to see if the drawing numbers for the receivers fall withing the seral number range (if they do, there's less chance they're re-welded).

Thanks!

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 01:55 PM
Well, the barrel would seem to be original to the receiver of the Garand, at least... 2 S A 7 44 indicates the barrel was built by Springfield in July of 1944, which is about the same time as the receiver was made, if I read the charts correctly.

I'd still like to know if the receiver drawing numbers match the serial number ranges, if possible. I haven't been able to find a chart on any of the sites mentioned that details which receiver drawing numbers match which serial ranges.

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 02:07 PM
All I've been able to find so far is this excerpt from an old discussion:
http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/archives/199811/msg01246.html

in which the receiver drawing number D 28291-17 is stated to be the "expected drawing number and revision no." for a SA receiver buit in Dec. of 1942... my T-26 replica's receiver was built by SA in November 1942 so I imagine the drawing number/receiver serial range is correct, at least for that one.

Any info on the other drawing number/range?

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 02:31 PM
Found it, I think... just happend to get lucky with similar serial number/drawing numbers as others have queried.

The book shows July 44 3mil Ser#. With Drawing# D28291 34

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=20001

GRIZ22
December 26, 2006, 04:56 PM
http://scott-duff.com/

His Garand serial numbers and data sheets book has it all listed. It will give correct drawing numbers for serial number ranges for all parts. In some cases more than one drawing number may be correct.

He's considered one of the leading Garand experts and there are some entries in his book where he says he's not sure (which gives him more credibility in my book).

Quote:

I just want to see if the drawing numbers for the receivers fall withing the serial number range (if they do, there's less chance they're re-welded).

I was worried about this but if you look inside the receiver you can easily see where it's rewelded.

With the number of times some rifles have been rebuilt or parts swapped around in the barracks mismatched parts far from indicate a reweld. I have a SA I bought from CMP with a correct barrel, a H&R bolt, a Winchester trigger group, and drawing numbers on parts from 1943 to 1955. But the gun had been rebuilt and is almost new condition. As a shooter this doesn't matter to me.

1KPerDay
December 26, 2006, 05:53 PM
Griz22, I realize mismatched parts don't indicate a re-weld, and I realize the bolts, op rods, trigger groups, etc. on my garands are all from parts bins and don't necessarily match up, nor would I expect them to unless they start selling Collector Grades at the CMP again.:)

However, the receiver drawing number (stamped on the front of the receiver itself) should match up with the serial number on the rear of the receiver, even on a "parts gun"... unless the front half of one (later or earlier) receiver has been welded to the rear half of another. That's what I was trying to discern. Sorry if I wasn't clear, and thanks a mil for the good info.:cool:

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