AR-15 what is it good for?


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bigman9828
December 20, 2006, 09:56 PM
hey iam new here and i was hearing alot of talk about these ar-15 and there starting to grow on me now. so i woundering if they were mainly for self defence or can you go hunting with them if so what kind of game can you take down with them

ps idk if this has been asked but i just joined almost 5 mins ago so sorry in advanced;)

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DMK
December 20, 2006, 10:12 PM
I keep mine for home defense.

They are extremely accurate, are lightweight and have practically no recoil so they also make great target rifles or rifles for those who are recoil sensitive like children or slight women.

I don't hunt, but they are certainly good to take down coyotes, dangerous stray dogs or other midsize pests.

Oh and welcome to THR! :)

blackhawk2000
December 20, 2006, 10:45 PM
What is it good for? Everything....literally.

IDriveB5
December 20, 2006, 10:51 PM
Most people use them for target and home defense.
Most states do not allow .223 for deer hunting, but there are a couple.

CB900F
December 20, 2006, 10:54 PM
Bigman;

Remember, there is no reason why you should have to justify ownership of any particular make, model, style, or caliber of firearm to anybody.

That being said, there are Federal laws on the books that are enforced that do regulate some firearms, such as fully automatic examples. Those laws aside, the first paragraph holds true.

If the second amendment is ever properly enforced, the second paragraph becomes obsolete.

900F

RNB65
December 20, 2006, 10:58 PM
Target shooting and home defense are my primary uses. .223/5.56mm ammo is fairly cheap and they're fun to shoot.

treebeard
December 20, 2006, 11:10 PM
Wicked fun to shoot and reload. Pretty accurate too!;) ;)

GoRon
December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM
It is a very flexible platform and can be used for rifle matches, killing varmints, home defense some hunt hogs with it others kill terrorists with its military version over in the sandbox.

Pumpkinheaver
December 20, 2006, 11:16 PM
Fun!

rbernie
December 20, 2006, 11:19 PM
You can buy or build AR15 pattern rifles in many calibers suitable for hunting all sorts of stuff.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=41166&d=1150376185

That's a 16" AR15 carbine chambered in 7.62x39 clutched in my left hand, and that's a big freakin' feral hog (~ 500lbs, 6ft long snout-to-tail) that it dropped at about twenty/twenty five feet.

Don't Tread On Me
December 21, 2006, 12:45 AM
The AR-15 is one of the few, if only, military pattern rifle which you could put into a configuration which a new shooter, within 2 hours of instruction, would be able to consistently hit a milk jug at 300 yards with.

I doubt you could do that on another platform.


The AR-15 can be accurate or accurized for a low cost. A Wilson barrel, freefloated with 69gr SMK's will shoot 1 moa. That is phenomenal for a military pattern rifle. With a premium barrel, it will shoot half that. A stock AR, will do 2moa. Again, some of the best military pattern rifle accuracy there is.

Getting an M1A to shoot that well costs 3x more. Russian weapons, even if you try, will not do that.

That same platform, can also be made into an ultra-lightweight, short, close quarters combat carbine designed for rapid fire on close targets while allowing you to stay on target due to little to no muzzle flip.


It can be a target rifle for shorter ranges or longer ranges, it can be a varmint rifle, it can be a SHTF rifle, it can be a LE rifle, it IS a combat rifle as an A2, A4 and M4. It can be a home defense rifle. You can put anything you want on it for virtually any conceivable need, or you can keep it dirt simple.

It is low recoil, very accurate, easy to shoot and ergonomic. It is reliable enough.

There's a reason it's been in service with the US military for over 40 years. That isn't a mistake or a giant blunder or a diabolical scheme to save money. It works.

RevolvingCylinder
December 21, 2006, 01:12 AM
Pretty much what everyone has said so far. There are also other options for this platform. There is the .458 SOCOM, the new .45 Bushmaster that's coming out, the AR-10(.308 version of AR15), other odd chamberings like the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC and .50 Beowulf, and even a .50BMG upper. There are also a lot of chamberings available in Cobb's MCR rifles( http://cobb50.com/mcr.htm ). This opens the AR platform to other uses other than what the 5.56 is capable of.

RockyMtnTactical
December 21, 2006, 03:20 AM
What is it NOT good for?

I use them for hunting, target practice, plinking, home/self defense, etc...

Main reason is for the protection of myself and my family.

swingset
December 21, 2006, 03:45 AM
I have a hard time finding something an AR doesn't do well.

Fun, plinking, home defense, target shooting, competition, it's the most complete platform there is.

I wonder seriously about people who call themselves gun nuts who don't own one.

Colt46
December 21, 2006, 03:49 AM
My esteemed Senators. California has it's own 'Assault rifle' ban that is crumbling under the weight of it's own stupidity as we speak.

They are superbly accurate and quite capable for hunting small game in standard configuration. Specialized calibers can take on large game with no problem.
The great thing about them is you can configure it exactly how you want it. buy the lower reciever and then all other parts are mail order and the variety is damned near endless.

GunnySkox
December 21, 2006, 03:54 AM
Oh, man, I can't believe none of the AR haters/lovers got to this one yet:

The AR, what it is a-good for?
Absolutely nothin'! Unh!
Say it again!

:D

But really, one of the things I like about the AR is you can buy or build one lower and do a thousand different things with it. You could take one AR-15 lower and build a...

.22 plinking rifle
.223 target/plinking rifle
a semiautomatic replica of any M16 variant from any era
a severely accurate varmint/target rifle
a rifle for hunting medium game at reasonable ranges (6.5mm Grendel/6.8mm SPC)
a rifle for punching great big holes in things (.50 BMG, .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, etc.)
9mm, .40, or .45 pistol caliber carbine...

And so-on and so-forth and all that good stuff.

~GnSx

mrmeval
December 21, 2006, 04:51 AM
They upset those that promote muggings, rape and murder?

1911JMB
December 21, 2006, 05:32 AM
They are great fun to shoot, and they will take down bad guys, but I don't like them for the simple reason that they have a tendency to jam on me when I shoot borrowed AR's at the range. Granted you can keep them sparkling clean and they will work fine, but I don't like them because they don't work right dirty. My FAL on the other hand has never jammed. Several times I've let guys at the range with AR's use my cleaning supplies, because they forgot theirs and their AR's just won't cycle. I like to compare that to old dirty, a FAL thats seen 13,000 rounds with no cleaning, and zero malfunctions.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486

Above all else a self defense gun should go bang if its loaded and you pull the trigger, and I think that alone is a good enough reason to call AR15's and M16's good mainly for sporting purposes. Don't get me wrong, the military, police departments and civilians have long used them with fair amounts of sucess, but I don't trust them. I don't think perfectionist cleaning should be a requirement for a gun thats supposed to be suitable for protecting your life.

rbernie
December 21, 2006, 10:03 AM
I don't like them because they don't work right dirty.I have four, and none have ever jammed on me 'because they were dirty'. Talk to the guys who put tens of thousands of rounds a year downrange thru these things, and they'll pretty much tell you the same.

Buy/build a quality AR and shoot decent ammo out of decent magazines and you'll do just fine.

vanfunk
December 21, 2006, 10:11 AM
Granted you can keep them sparkling clean and they will work fine, but I don't like them because they don't work right dirty

It's unfortunate that you've had such a bad experience with the AR platform, but that is not the fault of the design. What were the brands/models your range friends were using that wouldn't run dirty? A properly assembled AR, made of quality (yes, "mil-spec" - there, I said it!) parts, will run and run through many thousands of rounds without cleaning. The AR, like the 1911, has become a popular home-builders platform, and its popularity with civilians has resulted in many civvie manufacturers turning out some shoddy work here and there. It's like the common misconception about the 1911 not being reliable, based on the example of the buddy at the range with his bargain-bin parts gun he built himself that fails to feed a magazine of hardball. The further any firearm design gets from its original specifications (with regard to assembly and parts quality), the more likely it is to have functioning problems.

The AR design is not overly complex, in fact the action and trigger mechanism are very simple and robust. The FAL is of course a very robust design as well, but its reliability has been soundly and appropriately criticized with respect to certain environments, especially with its use in desert environments. The myth that ARs need to be parade inspection clean to function is just absolute hogwash. Personal proclivities are important, and of course its perfectly OK if you don't like them, but don't dismiss the platform as unreliable just yet. Find a good one (Colt) and go to town with it - Jeez, if you live in MA you can borrow one of mine and see how reliable an AR is when it's made right!:)

vanfunk

Rev. DeadCorpse
December 21, 2006, 10:34 AM
Granted you can keep them sparkling clean and they will work fine, but I don't like them because they don't work right dirty.

You know... I own two of these things. A tack driver and an entry length tacticool. The only time the Twins ever get finicky is when I try and feed them junk ammo.

I tried some of the PMC plastic cased ammo once, I'll never do that again.

Loaded up some range brass without trimming it back to SAMMI first. Case gage later on showed me I was way over on LOA, so it was no wonder I was having FTF's.

Had some Wolf ammo leave some varnish or something in the chamber that started causing some FTE problems.

But EVERY time I've feed it Winchester white box, Remington, UltraMax, or even properly prepped hand loads, they've performed fantastically. Put about 600 rounds in one trip through the Jolly Roger without a hitch.

http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/9564/2000408228190308713_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000408228190308713)

ATAShooter
December 21, 2006, 11:10 AM
Exellent for drillin coyotes. My soon to be son in law has a Dairy farm and the coyotes give him a hard time trying to get the calves. I am in the process of building an AR now.

bender
December 21, 2006, 11:23 AM
Oh, man, I can't believe none of the AR haters/lovers got to this one yet:

The AR, what it is a-good for?
Absolutely nothin'! Unh!
Say it again!
well, Gunny, the tune of "War" is also the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread title

Keith Wheeler
December 21, 2006, 11:24 AM
Doesn't the myth of "ARs have to be super clean to work at all" go back to the issue with the original non-forward assist M16 and the choice of powder for the ammunition of the time? (With the powder choice being the real issue...)

My AR is currently embarassingly filthy. Still shooting fine. I'd have no problems right now trusting my life to it. It's fed everything I've put through it, surplus LC, Izzy, Guat, Brit, civie reloads, 55gr, 62gr, tracers. Mine is a "home built" on a bushmaster lower with a model 1 or some such kit (bought 10 years ago out of Shotgun News).

The AR has got to be the best "everything" rifle ever built. I hate to use buzz words, but it really is a weapons system, and not just a rifle. That's where it has most other autoloaders beat. AK, FAL, HK, even my beloved Galil? As built they are one trick ponies. Want a different barrel length or caliber? You gotta get another rifle. With an AR it takes less time to change things than to talk about it.

das028
December 21, 2006, 11:45 AM
1911JMB,

I cant assure you that your experience with the AR platform is definitely in the minority. I think its kind of ironic that you have had that experience with your screen name being what it is. Know you want to talk about a gun thats finicky and need to be shot clean, just take one look at your screen name. Something tells me your an oldtimer too.

erict
December 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
I have 4 AR's (had 5 but traded one for a FAL last week). I like the AR platform because you can do anything you can think of with it. It is the most versatile type of weapon I own and can be taylored anyway you want it to be. You could use it for home defese and clearing houses; or get out and reach things at 200-400 yards if needed. There aren't many other weapons you could do this with that are so lightweight and simple.

You can go anywhere from a 7" pistol to a 24" LR rifle and anything in between using most of the same parts. You can change calibers simply by pulling 2 pins and switching mags/ammo.

Ammo is cheap, I get 1K of Lake City for $180 which is pretty decent and comparible to the price of 7.62x39 (if you're considering an AK also).

The only "downside" I've personally heard about the AR is it's size. If your screenname is any indication of your stature, you may not like the AR too much. A buddy of mine shoots with me quite often and he doesn't care for shooting my AR's too much. He's 6'7" at about 270lb. and complains that they feel like a "tiny little toy" to him...lol. Definetely try one out for yourself though and make your own conclusion.

DMK
December 21, 2006, 01:03 PM
The only "downside" I've personally heard about the AR is it's size. If your screenname is any indication of your stature, you may not like the AR too much. A buddy of mine shoots with me quite often and he doesn't care for shooting my AR's too much. He's 6'7" at about 270lb. and complains that they feel like a "tiny little toy" to him...lol.Easy fix for that. Get a flat top, 20" HBAR. Add a free floating forearm rail, light, scope, backup iron sights, stuff the buttstock full of survival gear, add a mag pouch. That should weight it down enough for most.

marklbucla
December 21, 2006, 01:07 PM
Everything....literally.

There was a thread a year or two about a guy who carved his Thanksgiving turkey with one and made his sister's hippie boyfriend curl up into the fetal position and cry. :neener:

Essex County
December 21, 2006, 02:28 PM
Woodchucks to deer, and don't forget about it's social capablities...Essex

Zero_DgZ
December 21, 2006, 02:31 PM
Q: What are AR-15's good for?

A: Shooting!

(Awaits tomatoes.)

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 02:48 PM
ok you guys sold me after seeing that hog pic. so what kind of setup on the ar 15 have you found out to be the best for hunting

gopguy
December 21, 2006, 03:36 PM
There are many good reasons to own a AR15. However my favorite is that it gives Hillary Clinton, Sarah Brady and most liberals night sweats. lol:D :evil: :D :evil: :D :evil: :D ;)

1911JMB
December 21, 2006, 05:15 PM
"What were the brands/models your range friends were using that wouldn't run dirty?"

Bushmaster, Colt, and Armalite are the ones I've shot. The Bushmaster was a .308 and we were using SA surplus. Maybe you can fault the ammo in that one, but it was very clean and freshly CLP'd. In the AR15's we were using Wichester ammo, and those guns were fairly clean I believe, but its not like I know for sure how clean, I didn't exactly feel like field stripping the things when I had other guns to shoot.

I don't know for sure which models people were using when they needed my cleaning supplies.

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 06:13 PM
o yes another question ok any kind of ar 15 can you swich the cal on the gun to something with alittle more kick

rocketfish
December 21, 2006, 06:26 PM
An AR in 5.56/.223?

Paper and no quarry larger than varmints.

Andrew S
December 21, 2006, 06:45 PM
o yes another question ok any kind of ar 15 can you swich the cal on the gun to something with alittle more kick


Thats what plenty of people in the thread have told you so far.

Bazooka Joe71
December 21, 2006, 06:54 PM
Fun!
Couldn't have said it better myself :D


I just bought my first a couple of weeks ago, and my only regrets are:

1) Didn't buy one sooner.

2) Only have 1!

A buddy of mine shoots with me quite often and he doesn't care for shooting my AR's too much. He's 6'7" at about 270lb. and complains that they feel like a "tiny little toy" to him...lol.

I don't agree with that at all...I'm about the same size as your buddy, give or take an inch and 10 lbs...If its too light, all ya gotta do is add some accessories! Thats what i did :)

GoRon
December 21, 2006, 06:59 PM
o yes another question ok any kind of ar 15 can you swich the cal on the gun to something with alittle more kick

All things AR can be found at ARFCOM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=3)

texlurch
December 21, 2006, 07:22 PM
I am not a big fan of .223.

My AR is a homebuilt, and runs like a top with whatever I put in it, including Wolf. The older lacquer style had some issues (I am told) but the newer polymer coated is fine. And I am not a real religous cleaner, have run over 600 rds. thru it in a session.

I also have a .223 AK, WASR-3, that runs like a top. Not quite as accurate as the AR, but just as fun.

One more to go is a Yugo .223 AK I picked up to build. It is brand new and should be a shooter.

Bueaty of the AR is once you have the lower, you can pretty much build whatever upper you want and slap it on. Lots of options out there.

blackhawk2000
December 21, 2006, 08:06 PM
My AR is absolutely filthy. It hasn't been cleaned since a carbine class I took a few months back. In that class alone I ran over 1000 rds of Wolf through it without a single problem. I have had exactly 2 FTE's with Wolf, and the gun was very hot, dry, and dirty. It's a box stock Bushmaster M4gery. Anyone want to host pics?

texlurch
December 21, 2006, 08:07 PM
email them to me and I'll host them. texlurch@yahoo.com

possum
December 21, 2006, 08:37 PM
what are they good for you ask!
Home defense

varmit hunting

target shooting

bringing new folks into the shooting sport without scaring them with recoil like other rifles, plus great for little ones like was said before.

one of my favorite thing is the fact that you can modify and accesories them to meet any situation you might need.

changing out upper recivers is one of the coolest things about them. you can have one lower and a upper for cqb/ self defense, huntig, target shooting, varmit hunting the list goes on and on.

blackhawk2000
December 21, 2006, 08:53 PM
Pics inbound.

Before I put it back together I wiped what I could with a rag. Took a pic of the rag too. There's a pic with a mag inserted backwards too, just in case anyone wants to see that it can be done.

Juna
December 21, 2006, 09:05 PM
a rifle for punching great big holes in things (.50 BMG, .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, etc.)


Didn't realize you could get a .50 BMG upper. Seems like it would recoil like a SOB in a platform that lightweight.

That said, I loved the M4 I shot. I was pretty darned accurate with it with just a plain old carry handle & stock sights. The recoil is light, and it's really quite accurate. I will definitely own one when I can afford to build one (if it's before the anti-gun Democrats try to ban them!).

lamazza
December 21, 2006, 09:09 PM
Big~
.223/5.56 is nice because its still relatively cheap to shoot. For hunting I think a setup in .308 is the way to go and still not really too expensive-yet.

toecutter
December 21, 2006, 09:19 PM
Ar-15... it's the firearm version of legos.

I own many, in different calibers, configurations etc. The only time I've ever had any kind of issues with these is when you have crappy magazines. Any of the milsurp mags, if they are used, put new springs and either a green or magpul follower in. The AR is a victim of it's own success, since everyone wants to sell magazines for it, they do, and many of those companies make magazines that really suck (promag).

I will say though, the AR-15 is a lot less finicky about magazines than the Ruger Mini-14.

As far as the FAL. I really like the FAL platform, it's simple elegant and functional. The thing I don't like about the FAL is that the ammo is heavy, and largely expensive. (by comparison)

As far as cleaning and maintenance. I recently built up a CA-legal carbine using a sundevil lower, and a stag upper. It's beautiful. I have both a 6.8 SPC and .223 uppers for it. (both stag) Combine that with the .22 upper I made, and I can hunt for everything from rabbit all the way up through deer reliably.

The thing to keep in mind with a cartridge as small as .223 is that you have to make big trade-offs. If you put together heavy bullets, you will get better penetration but less delivered energy. With light bullets you will get better energy transfer but it will happen too quickly to go very deep. Having shot a lot of every bullet offered in .223 I really like the SS109 projectile, the 68/69 match bullets from hornady and sierra are very good bullets, I also like the CT ballistic silvertip from nostler in .55gr. However, I've found that bullets over the 68/69gr weight are just too long (hornady amax 75 etc...).

I've also loaded some of the frangibles from scinterfire. All very nice.

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 09:43 PM
alright guys should i stick with the 223 or go to a 6mm for only $50 more?

blackhawk2000
December 21, 2006, 09:54 PM
5.56 chamber. Chrome lined barrel and chamber. .223 is safe for a 5.56 chamber, but not the other way around.

ArfinGreebly
December 21, 2006, 09:55 PM
Guy I work with has a new ArmaLite.

First few hundred rounds he had to keep it clean. Shoot 200, clean rifle. Shoot another 200, clean rifle. Repeat for 800-1000 rounds.

He can now shoot multiple sessions of more than 200 rounds and it continues to run. He does have trouble with random "generic" gun-show-bagged ammo. All the commercial stuff he's fed it works just fine, including Black Hills remanufactured stuff. You may want to stay away from Billy-Bob's Night Reloaders Special, though.

Depending on specs and tolerances, you may get one that will do 1000 out of the box, or you may get one that requires a little more break-in.

His needed a break-in. I'm sure after another 1000 rounds his will smooth out and just run.

The guy next to his cube has had some trouble with his no-name AR, but discovered it works lots better with all its springs and pins.

Note to self: care and feeding of ARs includes keeping all the parts.

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 10:10 PM
all right guys and gals i think i have found the right now with everything i needed besides a scope for now so here it is and tell me of what you think

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c15m4pre.asp

GoRon
December 21, 2006, 10:44 PM
I would skip getting the Carbon 15 and get a typical aluminum AR with a true 16 inch barrel instead of the M4 configuration.

Get one with a flat top and a detachable handle. The handle has sights in it so you can shoot it while you are researching optics.

FWIW, IMHO

blackhawk2000
December 21, 2006, 11:04 PM
Slow down there partner. First of all where do you live? That could be the determining factor as to what you can buy.

Skip the carbon fiber model. If they are legal where you live I would get a 16" midlength lightwheight flat top w/collapsible stock.

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 11:15 PM
well i live in minnesota downtown st.paul

blackhawk2000
December 21, 2006, 11:23 PM
I don't think MN has an AWB (Assault Weapon Ban) in place. Check out http://ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=7 or http://www.m4carbine.net/ to see what stuff is selling for. Stag, CMT, LMT, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, and others all make good stuff.

bigman9828
December 21, 2006, 11:59 PM
ok guys here you go what do you think of this setup
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/bblacksheep/untitled.jpg

Eyesac
December 22, 2006, 12:01 AM
The AR15 is good for making PEACE on earth...:D

TheGrouch
December 22, 2006, 02:58 AM
Poodle shootin'

swingset
December 22, 2006, 03:34 AM
ok guys here you go what do you think of this setup

It's a good setup, but I'd go with Del-Ton before Model1 Sales, myself. Model 1 is hit and miss on both quality and customer service, but Del-Ton is a great company and for about the same $$ you'll have a better rifle, IMHO.

I have 2 Delton kits, and 1 model 1, btw.

texlurch
December 22, 2006, 09:31 AM
Here is Blackhawk2000's filthy AR...


http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_racing/dirtyar.htm

stoky
December 22, 2006, 10:38 AM
gaining fire superiority over prairie dogs :rolleyes:

mrmeval
December 22, 2006, 10:58 AM
bigman9828

It should do well. I have a similar setup but mine has the freefloat handguard tube and 24" bull barrel and it feeds filty wolf ammo fine for 500 rounds, I've not had more money to test it to 1500 which is what I consider acceptable. After 500 rounds soaking and cleaning in Ed's Red is a must.

The last one I cleaned with 1500 through it was not fun to clean but the gun did very well and was fun to shoot. :D

bigman9828
December 22, 2006, 10:32 PM
ok guys bear with me i have one more question do i have to worry about getting a pre band or should i go with a post band?

RockyMtnTactical
December 23, 2006, 12:04 AM
Depends, do you live in a free state, or do you live in occupied territory?

MisterPX
December 23, 2006, 12:59 AM
You're in MN, so a "pre ban" is good to go, as MN has no AWB.


PS, I'd shell out the extra $35 for chrome lining while you're at it.

Otherguy Overby
December 23, 2006, 09:42 AM
In Minnesota, you will probably still need to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun/assault rifle from your local cop shop. They are good for a year (by law) and check when you get it to make sure it's not for 3 or 6 months because of some anti at the cop shop. I'm pretty sure you don't need one if you have a MN CCW.

If you really want an extreme AR check out:

http://www.jprifles.com/

They are near Mpls, too.

JP Enterprises, Inc.
P.O Box 378
Hugo, MN 55038

Reginhild
December 26, 2006, 10:14 PM
To quote GunnySkox:

"But really, one of the things I like about the AR is you can buy or build one lower and do a thousand different things with it. You could take one AR-15 lower and build a...

.22 plinking rifle
.223 target/plinking rifle
a semiautomatic replica of any M16 variant from any era
a severely accurate varmint/target rifle
a rifle for hunting medium game at reasonable ranges (6.5mm Grendel/6.8mm SPC)
a rifle for punching great big holes in things (.50 BMG, .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, etc.)"

You can accessorize the AR like crazy! You can get multiple caliber uppers for your one lower - only the lower counts as a firearm for shipping and instant check troubles - uppers you can have sent to your house through the mail after getting your one lower.

The 6.5 Grendel also makes a great target rifle and long range rifle.
The big bores can be used for big game hunting.

Mark8252
December 27, 2006, 11:18 PM
I like shooting it...its a lot of fun. Try it...you will like it.
A few years ago I was talking to a couple of off duty Colorado State Police in a gun shop and found out they like the AR-15 for varmint hunting. They were right too...my Bushmaster Disapator makes a wicked varmint rifle. Much more fun that shooting at paper.
Can't say I like it for home defense. Rather go with a shotgun.

:) :) :) :)

toemag
December 29, 2006, 07:07 PM
Showing snob's the error of their way's!!!

2 week's ago I went to the range and this bloke was sat there zeroing his Blaser R93 in with a doctor II sight, he saw me get set up and pull out my AR15. The look of disdain was obvious, then he ask's why do you need such a gun, as I didnt know the guy I just ignored him and his attitude, fired 20 rnd's (16 in the 10 ring, the rest in the 9 ring with the carry handle BUIS), down range at 100 meter's, then draged the tgt back. I then changed to my Sauer 90 in .308win. So I had to pass him to get the gun's swapped out. he had his tgt back for inspection. As he'd been stupid enough to get on my nerve's, and had hardly even touched the plate size tgt at 75 meter's I couldnt resist getting my tgt insert and going over to him and showing him how well my AR shoot's. My word's were pretty straight forward, 'that's what I need one of those for'. The next 3 rnds (@100m) from the Sauer 90 produced one hole in the middle of the ten ring, as I was through and was packing up I noticed that he'd started shooting at 50m's, so I showed him the last tgt. just to tell him to shut the F... up.

I don't have anything to prove to anyone when it come's to my ability with a rifle, but I get a bit annoyed when someone try's to put me down without knowing me, buddies can pull my chain all day, and I don't even break a sweat but I have my limit's.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/toemag/Zeroed.jpg

This was my zero tgt when I set up my EOtech at 100m.

Toe

BAT1
January 21, 2007, 04:57 PM
My Bushmaster will get 3/4" at 100 yds. All factory except I did the 15 minute trigger job, which really improved it. Now I'm going for the 6.5 Grendel upper to interchange for hunting. the 6.5 Grendel upper can blast a milk jug at 800 yds. [Grendel forum with pics] How accurate do you want it? Easy to work on, and super versatile.

LkWinnipesaukee
January 21, 2007, 05:02 PM
Aside from maybe the Garand, 1903, and the 1911, the AR is probably one of the most patriotic guns you can own.

You can completely customize them. Every part is interchangable. It's an accurate and fun-as-hell gun to shoot.

lycanthrope
January 21, 2007, 05:50 PM
Here is Blackhawk2000's filthy AR...


http://www.freewebs.com/heads_up_racing/dirtyar.htm


There is no way he got that AR that dirty.....by using that magazine.

:what:

Reginhild
January 21, 2007, 06:51 PM
Blackpowder handloads?

JWarren
January 21, 2007, 07:24 PM
In the state I live in, an AR's usefulness is somewhat limited in its typical configuration (caliber).

We have a code on the books prohibiting the shooting of a deer with a caliber smaller than 24 caliber.

I'd imagine, however, that putting a 6.8 SPC top on one would make a nice hunting rifle-- but that defeats one of the attractive features of having an AR, namely having a caliber that the US military and most LEO uses for ammo availability.

Because I have other rifles that meet the hunting requirement, when I DO get another AR, I'll just get the 5.56 top and view it as a "What if rifle."


-- John

blackhawk2000
January 21, 2007, 07:50 PM
I inserted the mag backwards to show it can be done. There was a thread here recently where a police officer was unlucky enough to have her picture printed in a newspaper with the mag in backwards.


That's mostly Wolf, with a little bit of 5.56 surplus mixed in. 1000 rds of Wolf in a carbine class a few months ago, and then probably another 600 Wolf, and 400 5.56 surplus on top of that brings me up to today. Last 1000 was in 200+ rd sessions. Keep it wet, and it runs fine.

lycanthrope
January 21, 2007, 08:27 PM
Keep it wet, and it runs fine.


As long as it isn't a sandy environment that's been my experieince as well.

blackhawk2000
January 21, 2007, 08:42 PM
I've been told by people who know more than me that even in sandy enviroments to keep it wet.

10-Ring
January 21, 2007, 10:17 PM
HD / range fun...The AR is new to me too. I just had my 1st build in Sept and I've got about 600 rounds through it...man is it fun to shoot! And cool too :cool:

ctdonath
January 22, 2007, 01:16 AM
Only problem I had with an AR15 was too much laquered Wolf ammo made the chamber sticky. Oddly, cleaned that out by firing a few rounds of polymer-cased ammo - the texture on the plastic apparently scraped the goop out.

Allowing for ordering a couple lost detent springs and a pivot pin adapter, turned an old fixed-stock long-barreled AR15 into an M4gery in about an hour - and I had pretty much no idea what I was doing. Based design is so modular it's almost silly.

My second AR15 (just got, not yet fired):
http://www.donath.org/M4LE_Omni.JPG

glen walker
May 15, 2007, 04:42 AM
When the United State's Goverment put in their request for a 'new' rifle, "This is about the size of round we want and this is what we want it to be able to do" the only two serious contenders were Colt and Ruger. (Sturm and Ruger) Ruger's version, the 'Mini-14' was the best by far, completely outstripping the M-16 in all fields (accuracy, ease of handling, reliability, and dependability) However, there was just one problem. All of Ruger's '14's' were machined out, and the Colt-16's were 'stamped out'. The U.S. Federal Government went with the Colt because it was cheaper, even though they were well aware of all the test's results, and knew damned good and well that the Colt had lot's of 'bugs' that needed to be worked out.

The Colt's flash suppressor was three open prongs that tended to catch on vines..The Colt had a maximum rate of fire of 750 to 800 rounds per minute...I still remember back in Vietnam when the Lt. came through the hooch passing out new spring and buffer units to replace the older ones. The new buffer units slowed the rate of fire back down to 700 to 750 rounds per minute, placing it on a par with the M-14. That did not solve the problem. Then they passed out new complete rifles that had a chromed chamber. There was a tiny letter 'c' engraved on the bottom of the barrel, letting one know that he had a M-16 with a chromed barrel. That did not solve the problem...Here was the problem, and it still exists to this day. (It was just worse back then, although it's still plenty bad enough today) The rifle does not like to extract. More properly put, the bolt would cycle ( for example, the M-14 will load, chamber, fire, extract, eject, load, in approx. one/one hundredths of a second) but the extractor would strip the brass from the empty hull and leave it in the chamber. Many a good man died over the years due to a jammed up M-16 rifle. In Vietnam, on Hill 881, over two full companies of Marines died taking that hill. Two out of three of them were found dead with their M-16 jammed and them trying to fix it when they were killed.

We were using Colt ammo. They changed ammo . It did not solve the problem. From Vietnam until I know up into the 1990's, all U.S.Marines were constantly cautioned to keep the lower section (tip end) of the rifle's cleaning rod in their pocket at all times. When you got a jam, perform 'immediate action' (a term they came up with to cover their ass) by pulling the bolt to the rear, and taking the section of cleaning rod from your pocket and throwing it sharply down the barrel from the muzzle end, and hoping that it would dislodge the empty hull from the chamber.... I realize that this is 2007, and I know they 'stiffened the barrel' and I know they added the three round burst selector, but I also know that one drop of water, one tiny bit of leaf, a couple of grains of sand, in the wrong place at the right time, and you're out of business. Talk to any of these old timers, and they will tell you about it. If it didn't happen to them, I'll bet they know someone it did happen to...BOTTOM LINE AND IT'S A FACT.. At least up into the 1990's, when the U.S. Marines jumped off of those helicopters in the middle of the s**t, it was 50/50 as to whether those M-16's would work past the second or third shot. It was also standard policy to carry only 17 or 18 rounds in the magazine. Check around. Ya'll will see..

Gewehr98
May 15, 2007, 05:12 AM
Just how good a stuff were you tokin' in that hooch, letting you see into the future? Ruger didn't begin development of the Mini-14 until 1970, with production beginning in 1974.

Testing of Eugene Stoner's AR-15 began in earnest in 1958. Curtis LeMay saw the gun demonstrated in 1960, and the Air Force and Army began orders of the M16 in earnest in 1964 when MacNamara ordered production of the M14 ended.

There was no way short of a time machine that the Ruger Mini-14 was a competitor in the DoD evaluations for the M14's replacement in the early 1960s. You will excuse my disbelief and general questioning of your credibility. :scrutiny:

(Winchester submitted a modified variant of the M1 Carbine for trials in 1957. It kind of looked like the much-later Mini-14)

AlaskaErik
May 15, 2007, 05:18 AM
Mine is a SHTF last resort home defense weapon. It's an easy rifle to shoot and clean and I'm familiar with it, having shot its full auto cousin in the military. And a thousand rounds doesn't take up a whole lot of room.

buzz_knox
May 16, 2007, 01:47 PM
Please provide something (i.e. anything) that supports your contention that the Mini-14 was ever entered as a competitor against the M-16 prior to the latter weapon's adoption by the US Army in general (versus SF and USAF who both used the AR-15 prior to general issuance).

It was also standard policy to carry only 17 or 18 rounds in the magazine. Check around. Ya'll will see..

Actually, policy is 28 rounds in a magazine, to allow the magazine to be inserted with a closed bolt. It looks like you've taken the download by two rounds advice and applied it to the 20 round mags (which don't have this issue).

kingpin008
May 16, 2007, 02:38 PM
Ruger's version, the 'Mini-14' was the best by far, completely outstripping the M-16 in all fields (accuracy, ease of handling, reliability, and dependability)


A Mini-14 is more accurate than an M-16?:scrutiny: :scrutiny:

Oookkkk..

Limeyfellow
May 16, 2007, 03:36 PM
The military version of the Ruger is the Ruger AC556 famous really for being on the A-Team. It didn't begin development on the rifle till 1970 and commercially it came out in 1973 and the military version slightly later. Its just no way it could have been part of the some trials that picked the M16.

A Mini-14 is more accurate than an M-16?

Oookkkk..

That did cause me a *** moment too. Its considered by pretty much everyone that the Mini14 design has inferior accuracy.

buzz_knox
May 16, 2007, 03:42 PM
That did cause me a *** moment too. Its considered by pretty much everyone that the Mini14 design has inferior accuracy.

Ruger's ad for its target model has a line in it to the effect of "if this rifle ever starts shooting like a Mini-14, you can tighten it up until it shoots well again." I guess even Ruger admits the Mini-14 was . . . less than optimal.

SoCalShooter
May 16, 2007, 03:55 PM
competition, home defense, plinking, hunting...apocalypse

boerseun
May 16, 2007, 05:05 PM
Got a home built unit - built it off a 80% lower. Shoots, cycles and operates just fine. No failures so far. I don't clean often either.

BullfrogKen
May 17, 2007, 01:44 AM
glen walker said: From Vietnam until I know up into the 1990's, all U.S.Marines were constantly cautioned to keep the lower section (tip end) of the rifle's cleaning rod in their pocket at all times. When you got a jam, perform 'immediate action' (a term they came up with to cover their ass) by pulling the bolt to the rear, and taking the section of cleaning rod from your pocket and throwing it sharply down the barrel from the muzzle end, and hoping that it would dislodge the empty hull from the chamber....

We were? That's odd . . . It seems none of the units I was serving with received that directive . . .


Considering I entered the Marine Corps in 1990, served as an infantryman in infantry units, I expect I'd be in a pretty good position to see such an immediate action drill taught. In fact, the immediate action drills I was taught had nothing to do with cleaning rod sections at all. I was trained as a heavy machinegunner. None of the 3 guns' immediate action drills, nor the M-16's we were required to maintain proficiency with, ever mention your cleaning rod solution. Nor did their remedial action drills.


You might be describing some field expedient solution you heard tale of, but I suspect that's about all it is . . . a tall tale.


glen walker said: The rifle does not like to extract. More properly put, the bolt would cycle . . . . but the extractor would strip the brass from the empty hull and leave it in the chamber.

Really? I don't see how that lightly sprung extractor has enough tension on the brass to hold onto it and rip the rim off the brass in an M-16. Might happen incidentally . . . but not regularly. And if one does experience a case head separation, shoving a rod down the barrel won't get that case out. I've had to use a case extractor on our M-60's from time to time, which would occasionally rip up brass in various forms as it extracted, but that's a different beast.


glen walker said: At least up into the 1990's, when the U.S. Marines jumped off of those helicopters in the middle of the s**t, it was 50/50 as to whether those M-16's would work past the second or third shot. It was also standard policy to carry only 17 or 18 rounds in the magazine. Check around. Ya'll will see..

Well, we seemed to have missed the directive to carry rifles that didn't work, too. And the one about loading mags with 17 - 18 rounds . . .


Of course, its possible the units I served with weren't as high speed/low drag as the one you ran with . . . . we never got to visit the boathouse at Hereford.

ra407
May 17, 2007, 02:55 AM
Could someone tell me or refer me to sighting in my ar15, I notice it to shoot to the right alittle.

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