U.S. Embassy in Iran and current armaments.


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Glock22
December 21, 2006, 12:21 AM
Back in the late 1970s when Iran took those hostages at the U.S. Embassy, did the Marine guard fight back against the attackers?

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MSgt B
December 21, 2006, 12:23 AM
You want someone to post (on a public forum) how many Marines guard each embassy and what weapons they have?

Think about that for a minute.

Glock22
December 21, 2006, 12:24 AM
wow that does sound bad.

MSgt B
December 21, 2006, 12:31 AM
Yeah, it does.

No blood, no foul.

Kali Endgame
December 21, 2006, 12:33 AM
Only the Master Chief guards the Embassy. And Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Seriously, if that information isn't available on Wiki, you must not have the need to know.

Glock22
December 21, 2006, 12:36 AM
Kali Endgame, all i did was ask a question you dont need to be rude about it.

MatthewVanitas
December 21, 2006, 12:58 AM
I'm going from memory here, but IIRC the Marines at the Iranian Embassy in '79 were told to stand down against greatly superior numbers, rather than risk a full-on massacre of the civillian personnel they were responsible for. IIRC again, the focus was instead on buying time for the staff to destroy sensitive documents. Unfortunately, the staff only used a shredder, and the Iranian gov't later pieced together all the documents, published it in a huge 12-volume set, and sell it to this day at the site of the former embassy. The tranlated title is something like "The Nest of Spies Documents".

There were only something like 66 Americans in the whole embassy (maybe a dozen Marines?), against 300 attackers from the Students of the Imam's Line radical organization, so there was really no chance that the Marines could have pressed the mob back, so it was best to negotiate to keep their charges safe.

If someone else has a link to a good description of the event, that'd be great. I'll go glance around.

-MV

denfoote
December 21, 2006, 01:10 AM
Back then it would have been standard Corp issue: M16 and 1911A1.
Embassy guards are the creme of the Corp.
Not every Marine gets to be an Embassy guard.
They get special training and security clearences.
They are placed under the command of the Ambassador.
I know a former guard who now is a team leader of the security force of a nuclear power plant. Really nice guy, but you wouldn't want to try to mess with him!! He's a Chuck Norris class vessel, if you catch my drift!!

MatthewVanitas
December 21, 2006, 01:14 AM
So far as armaments: at the time of the Iranian Revolution, some of the embassy guards may have been carrying shotguns, or even revolvers.

Revolvers were pretty common in embassy armories until relatively recently, so I have been told by Marine SNCOs who'd done embassy tours.


-MV

Glock22
December 21, 2006, 01:21 AM
thank you for your answers.

rwc
December 21, 2006, 01:41 AM
Read "Guests of the Ayatollah: The Iran Hostage Crisis, The First Battle in America's War With Militant Islam" by Mark Bowden. He walks through the entire thing, start to finish. I'm sure the movie will be out in a few years.

http://www.amazon.com/Guests-Ayatollah-Hostage-Americas-Militant/dp/0871139251/sr=1-3/qid=1166683091/ref=pd_bbs_3/103-4471987-0587064?ie=UTF8&s=books

stillamarine
December 21, 2006, 12:09 PM
As well as UZIs. MSG (Marine Security Guard as they are known) still to this day has some detachments that have uzis. I'm sure they had some good ol trench guns and pistols.

DMK
December 21, 2006, 12:29 PM
Then there's that small nuclear device in the back room, just in case. ;)

ilcylic
December 21, 2006, 01:32 PM
Then there's that small nuclear device in the back room, just in case.

I sure hope not, since that would strongly imply that Iran now posesses one. :neener:

Frog48
December 21, 2006, 01:47 PM
the focus was instead on buying time for the staff to destroy sensitive documents. Unfortunately, the staff only used a shredder, and the Iranian gov't later pieced together all the documents

They didnt have an incinerator? I'm sure that soon became a standard item in embassies thereafter.

txgho1911
December 21, 2006, 05:27 PM
If Tehran was nuked after that initial attack. Maybe following a public announcement for non combatants to evacuate the city.

MatthewVanitas
December 21, 2006, 05:36 PM
Where would we be today? If Tehran was nuked after that initial attack.

International pariahs.

Plus the families of the 66 hostages would have sued the everloving snot out of the US gov't.

Plus it would have made the Marine expedition to (Shiite-majority) Lebanon ever so much more fun than it was already.




Nevermind, you're right, it would have brought peace to the Middle East. Solid call.

-MV

justashooter
December 21, 2006, 07:01 PM
embassy marines here in beijing have beretta 92 sidearms, and you occasionally see M16. chinese PLA keep the riffraff out of embassy row. they have 762X25 subguns.

ChestyP
December 21, 2006, 07:37 PM
the standard sidearm of MSGs was the .38 revolver (S&W Victory Models or newer Ruger Service Sixes). Very few MSG detachments had long guns of any kind. Even when the Saigon embassy was attacked in Tet 1968, most of the responding Marines carried .38s only.

The State Department is in overall charge of embassy security procedures and decisionmaking. The Marines do what they are told. And the State Department tends to prefer nonviolent responses to violence.

Without going into any detail, MSG detachments today are better trained and better armed. Whether they are allowed to use those arms is not up to them.



Former MSG with extensive mid-east travel experience

txgho1911
December 21, 2006, 08:17 PM
Mathew,
I am just wondering out loud. I think i was 6 or 7 when the hostages where taken. Must have been the flags displayed inside of the church I attended regular that made me as aware of the matter at all. I do not recall any other event so well known of untill the barracks in Lebanon.
How many other pieces of American territory or assets would not have suffered harm with a swift expanse of glass to prove retaliation as a fact.

to add: Why are so many English and other coalition countries hosts to Iranian Embassies?

Pumpkinheaver
December 21, 2006, 09:31 PM
12 Marines against 300 "Students" sounds like the odds are about even to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

slzy
December 21, 2006, 09:42 PM
what penalties go along with being an international pariah?

telomerase
December 21, 2006, 10:02 PM
what penalties go along with being an international pariah?

If you mean a US-funded "pariah" like North Korea, the penalty is on the people: they can never get rid of "their" government.

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