Mosin Nagant recoil?


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Antihero
December 21, 2006, 01:34 AM
So ive been looking at the various posts about mosins and i keep reading how it has terrible recoil, my question is compared to what? Im more of a big bore revolver guy so ive fired 4 non rimfire long guns:

Marlin 336cw in 30-30
Ishapore 2a in 308
Maverick 6lb 12 gauge firing 2 3/4 1 oz slugs
Mossburg 7 lb 20 gauge

What would the recoil be like compared to these? Does the m44 kick more than the m91/30?

Im just looking for a fun cheap rifle to play around with and since ive been out of work for the last month it cant be too expensive. I dont really care about barrel length as long as its accurate and doesnt kill me on recoil.

Which mosin would you recommend for my purposes?

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Hoppy590
December 21, 2006, 01:43 AM
m44 does kick more than a 91/30

id say its just under the 12 gauge. but iv never shot a 30-30 but just from numbers and size, i assume its not as strong kick

ArchAngelCD
December 21, 2006, 01:45 AM
I have a 91/30 and a M44 and I don't find the recoil bad at all. As a matter of fact I was surprised it was so light. The gun is so heavy it absorbs the energy. I have been shooting 147 gr surplus Military ammo through both. The Military ammo is a little stronger than the factory stuff and I still don't find the recoil stiff. I am shooting both with the metal backplate on the stock without a recoil pad. The recoil is lighter than both my 12 gage shotguns by far.

270Win
December 21, 2006, 02:32 AM
I'm with ArchAngelCD ... I have no problems with the recoil of either my M38 or my dad's 91/30. I'd compare the M38, with light-ball, to .308 or 7.5 Swiss. Maybe up to .30-06 levels with heavy ball loads, but no rougher. With a stout jacket on, it's surprisingly unnoticeable, almost pleasant.

Rugerdaddy
December 21, 2006, 03:01 AM
Hello guys,

I just bought an M44 (waiting for it to get here). Where can I learn about the practical aspects of owning and shooting one? Questions that come to mind are: What should I do to it before firing it the first time? How do I break it down to clean it? Where's the best place to get ammo? What's the best ammo? Questions like that. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks for your advice. :)

ArchAngelCD
December 21, 2006, 03:22 AM
Run a few patches through the barrel to make sure there is none nasty left in there. My 91/30 was clean when I got it but the M44 was VERY nasty and took over 20 passes to clean it out!! The bolt comes right out and it's very easy to clean the whole rifle, you will see when you get it. Here is a good site that takes you through the disassembly and cleaning procedure. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/cleaning.htm

This is very important and I found this out only after have a lot of trouble!

After you fire a few rounds, if the bolt seems to stick (and a lot do) there is an easy way to fix that. Here is a site that explains why and how to fix the problem: http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/sticking_bolt.htm

As for ammo, I've been shooting some surplus Czech Silvertip stuff that's very accurate. I bought it from a local dealer for $3.00 a box. I found this site just a few days ago and the prices look good. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7_62x54R.html

Have fun with your new rifle.

enoch_zembecowicz
December 21, 2006, 03:41 AM
As far as milsurps that use full power cartridges go I have a M44, a Yugo M24/47 Mauser, and a K-31.
The recoil on the M44 is very abrupt. I don't know what kind of ammo I'm running through it, I got a lot of it in unmarked paper bundles for very little money.
The K-31 and the M24/47 seem to kick just as much, but take longer to do it. I shoot GP11 out of the K-31 and 50s Yugo surplus out of the Mauser. I ended up spending $8 on a slip on recoil pad for the M44 and have been happy with it ever since.

rhtwist
December 21, 2006, 09:33 AM
I've read that the M44 should kick less than the full length 91/30. The reason stated was that the shorter barrel does not allow the powder to burn as much and push the bullet. The excess powder just causes a fireball and no added recoil. I can say that the 91/30 using a benchrest did cause quite a bit of bruising after 25 rounds. Part of that may be poor technique but a limbsaver slip on recoil pad easily makes it unnoticeable. A lot more fun...
pascal

rustymaggot
December 21, 2006, 09:50 AM
felt recoil has a lot to do with the size of the butt pad. my friends mosin wasnt very pleasant to shoot untill i gave him a slip on pad. now its not bad at all.

ever try one of those folding stocks with the thin little butts on a 12 gauge? or one of those ramline stocks for a sks? i tried a sks with a ramline once and it was worse than the mosin. stupid little 1 inch wide butts suck.

Fu-man Shoe
December 21, 2006, 10:33 AM
Mosin-Nagant recoil, (especially for the M-44) is very over-rated.

JMHO, but it's really not that bad. I find a singleshot 12 ga much
more unpleasant to shoot than my M-44.

YMMV

max popenker
December 21, 2006, 11:37 AM
IMO FELT recoil is a very personal thing
it depends not only on the mass of the gun and the impulse of the projectile, but also on the shape of the buttpad, your statute and your hold on the gun

For me, recoil of m1891/30 is acceptable, and roughly on par with recoil of my 12ga semiauto.
For me, the worst thing recoil-wise was a single-shot break-open mountain rifle (kipplauf ;)) in .300 Win Mag
Just 2 shots and my shoulder gave me aches for next 3 days. Ouch.
After that, most anything is acceptable :cool:

Fingolfin
December 21, 2006, 02:06 PM
The only time I had problems with the M44 was shooting it over rest with 200gr softpoints. Standing in the open shooting some of the lighter ball isn't too bad.

Rugerdaddy
December 21, 2006, 02:35 PM
ArchAngelCD,
Thanks for the great info. That's very helpful. :)

foghornl
December 21, 2006, 02:43 PM
The recoil in my M-44 is fairly stout, particularly with some of that Barnaul Arsenal 200-Gr "Soft Point Hunting Ammo". With the 147-150-Gr or so light ball, not so bad.

The < $10 Butler Creek medium slip-on pad helps A BUNCH. That skinny steel butt-plate on the M-N rifles help make them serious thumpers on both ends.

_N4Z_
December 21, 2006, 02:58 PM
My 2 cent.

My current shoulder fired toy calibers ranked in order of recoil - top down, least to most.

.22lr
7.62x39
30-30
7.62x54r
12 guage (slugs and buck)

My M39 hurts off a rest, or prone, without some type of recoil pad or alot of clothing. Shooting the same rifle either standing and sitting can be done no-prob in nothing more than a t-shirt. It is in the same ball park as a .270 or 30.06, imho.

270Win
December 21, 2006, 06:05 PM
On a side note, at a gun show about a year ago - maybe a little more - I was VERY tempted to pick up a single-shot .375 H&H, a round I've always been very curious about.

Until I overheard the dealer tell another customer, pointing at the rifle, "It broke me."

At the time, alarming. Looking back, funny ;)

krell
December 25, 2006, 03:47 AM
Unless you weigh below 130lbs. or so the recoil on an M44 or M38 will be about average for a high power 30 cal. cartridge in a carbine. The kick is not nearly as stout as a 303 Jungle Carbine because it's lighter than the M44. The easiest way to lessen ACTUAL recoil is to shoot lighter weight bullets like the surplus Czech or Hungarian light ball - 147gr. It's physics, the equal and opposite reaction law. The more weight that's forced forward, the greater the force is that comes back at you. The heavier the bullet, the heavier the recoil.

max popenker
December 25, 2006, 04:33 AM
It just occurred to me that Mosin butt has to cause pains ;)
remember that butt-stroke was a standard move in hands-to-hands combat, once you've broken your BBQ spike a.k.a. Model 1891/30 bayonet :evil:

rangerruck
December 25, 2006, 04:58 AM
the m38 kicks more than all of those, especially without the bayonet, and you are shooting the 205 grainers. But get a butler creek small size, slip on pad, and it becomes 270ish. It is what I use for my regular hunting rifle.

Clipper
December 25, 2006, 07:29 AM
Between the lousy shape (and this seems to be the case with most european milsurps) of the stock, and that sharp-edged steel buttplate, I don't even plan to try shooting mine before installing it into an ATI stock. I have nothing to prove, and I know how easy my old Mosin was to shoot with a sporting stock on it.

bartsimpson123844
December 25, 2006, 11:37 AM
I way a little less than 120 pounds and after about 100 rounds through my Mosin, I have gotten used to the recoil and metal buttplate. It's not bad at all. Of course, it is a 91/30, too.

depicts
December 25, 2006, 01:06 PM
I can put 100 rounds through my 91/30 without feeling sore. I'd rather shoot that many rounds from a 91/30 than to shoot 5 or 6 rounds from a 12 gauge. The 12 gage, especially in single shot, is a monster

dstorm1911
December 25, 2006, 01:07 PM
Rugerdaddy, the main thing is to be sure the cosmoline is clear, I'm sure the link provided is a tutorial on cleaning the chamber, I always do a complete dissasembly on all my milsurps then soak the cosmoline outa the metal with Laquer thinner, the Mosin is an extremally simple design, use Regular odorless mineral spirits on the wood as to avoid stripping the shellac which laquer thinner will do, pay particular attention to the chamber area use some small stiff brushes to work the thinner around the bolt lug locking area as Cosmoline and old dirt tend to hide there, getting all the cosmo out with a good soaking in laquer thinner will prevent it from running out when the rifle gets hot, the bolt is really simple to tear down do so as the inside is packed with cosmoline, this cosmo will lead to problems later if not removed.

After its clean reoil with your favorite flavor oil and enjoy.

As to recoil, it depends on the person, I'm not very recoil sensitive and it annoys some of my friends when I start blasting away with one of my lil M95 carbines, these lil gems are about like shooting a 30/06 that weighs as much as a single shot .22, really makes ya respect how tough them Austrians and Hungarians were in WWI to be packin these things :) As to the Mosins the condition of the bore as well as the ammo will determin the recoil, a tighter bore (yes they do vary with milsurp rifles some that are like new can be very close to original spec while ones that have been used alot will get worn out to larger diameter) A rough bore creates more friction on the bullet creating a very sharp recoil while a shiny bore creates less resistance a loose worn bore will creat more of a push for recoil. In general using the guns ya mention having experience with the M44 is going to be closer to the .308

An M38 is very comparable to the average Sporting bolt action like a rem 700 or Winchester 70 in .270 or 30/06, the low butt design of the mosin stock makes the recoil feel heavier a stock that puts the butt plate more in line with the bore will reduce the felt recoil

Rugerdaddy
December 25, 2006, 03:38 PM
Thanks dstorm1911, that's great advice. I've got plenty of mineral spirits around, as I've built some guitars that have a hand rubbed laquer finish. I lubricate the sand paper with mineral spitits when I rub the laquer.

I'll follow your (and others) directions, and it should work out well. I'll post a note after I get the rifle, clean it , and fire it. Thanks again. :)

Essex County
December 25, 2006, 03:46 PM
First step purcase a Styer 95 Carbine, then switch to the M44. It will seem like a pussycat. Seriously a slip on recoil pad is a good ten dollar investment.

bartsimpson123844
December 25, 2006, 04:09 PM
"I can put 100 rounds through my 91/30 without feeling sore. I'd rather shoot that many rounds from a 91/30 than to shoot 5 or 6 rounds from a 12 gauge. The 12 gage, especially in single shot, is a monster"

Yeah, really. I have shot a Remington 870 Express 12 guage and, compared to my tiny single shot Rossi 20 guage, it has very little recoil. :D

Deer Hunter
December 25, 2006, 04:15 PM
My M44 is not the cannon everyone says it is. 203 grain SP rounds go downrange with the kick of a .308. Don't let the internet scare you.

tube_ee
December 25, 2006, 11:36 PM
Standing, it's not bad. From the bench, without a recoil pad, it's pretty painiful. BOOM!!... OUCH!!! Shooting Hungarian yellow-tip (heavy ball) off sand bags, while leaning into the rifle's Nazi-skull-cracking stock hurts. A lot. I'd rather shoot .458 Win mag out of a double rifle standing than the M44 from the bench. Really. Done both, the M44 hurt more.

With a small Butler Creek slip-on, I can shoot it all day standing, and a box or two from the bench is about my limit. Without the pad, my bench limit is about 1 magazine-full.

The Mosin stock is just plain brutal, at least to my shoulder. Of course, I'm not wearing Red Army winter gear (about 4 layers of wool) with a division of homicidal Germans running towards me at full speed, so YMMV.

--Shannon

Antihero
December 25, 2006, 11:54 PM
My M44 is not the cannon everyone says it is. 203 grain SP rounds go downrange with the kick of a .308. Don't let the internet scare you.

Im not letting myself get scared. as a matter of fact im gonna go and search for my Mosin tomarrow. I have a good feeling ill be coming home with one:D

MisterPX
December 26, 2006, 01:12 AM
See how it fits you. As far as recoil, everybody's differnet. I had an Ishapore 2A, had the MOST recoil of anyhting I've fired. Second to that was a Marlin 30-30. Rem. 700 in 30-06 had less felt recoil than those two, heck, I could shoot slugs out of a shotgun longer than I could shoot either of those two rifles.

krell
December 26, 2006, 02:18 AM
Has anyone slugged the bores on their Mosins to determine groove and bore diameter? Lots of them have loose bores, not to mention worn bores. It's rare to have a 91/30 or an M38 with the proper sized bore. Milsurp ammo uses .310-.311" bullets, but many Mosin bores are .315" or more, especially the M38's. That translates to a decrease in accuracy. A Mosin with a wartime date will likely have a loose bore. This is due to the fact that they built 'em in a hurry with no time to worry about specs. The M44, on the other hand, is mostly a post-war gun and built with greater quality control and tighter bores. The metal finish is cleaner because they had time to polish it, unlike the rougher M38. A 1946-48 dated M44 is twice the gun an M38 is. You may also find that the M44 barrels heat up faster than the M38. Tighter bores create more friction and seal the gases better. I still dig my M38. It's been there.

The Russians were sloppy, but they won.

Antihero
December 26, 2006, 02:32 AM
The Mosin stock is just plain brutal, at least to my shoulder. Of course, I'm not wearing Red Army winter gear (about 4 layers of wool) with a division of homicidal Germans running towards me at full speed, so YMMV.


You know i bet in a situation like that the answer would be.."Recoil? There was recoil???? Where!?!":D

See how it fits you. As far as recoil, everybody's differnet. I had an Ishapore 2A, had the MOST recoil of anyhting I've fired. Second to that was a Marlin 30-30. Rem. 700 in 30-06 had less felt recoil than those two, heck, I could shoot slugs out of a shotgun longer than I could shoot either of those two rifles.

Hmm my Ishy must fit me well cause its not much more to me than the 30-30 which is pleasent to me.

I dont like to fire 12 gauge slugs all day, but 30 or so is ok if its 2 3/4. If its 3 inch slugs??? Im not firing it

Rugerdaddy
December 26, 2006, 02:37 AM
The M44, on the other hand, is mostly a post-war gun and built with greater quality control and tighter bores. The metal finish is cleaner because they had time to polish it, unlike the rougher M38. A 1946-48 dated M44 is twice the gun an M38 is. You may also find that the M44 barrels heat up faster than the M38. Tighter bores create more friction and seal the gases better.

Good! Mine's a 1946 M44, so it ought to be in good shape. The guy I bought it from on gunbroker.com said it is, and also said the bolt NEVER sticks. I'll clean it up really well anyway before I fire it. I'm thinking about stripping and refinishing the stock as well, just to make it look "purty". Thanks for the input. :)

madmike
January 3, 2007, 12:02 AM
Just got an M44 in pristine, unfired condition, for $79:D :D

It even comes with a funny-looking spit on the front, looks like it's for barbecuing a chicken.:scrutiny: :neener: :what:

I can't wait to find out what the Russians felt when they killed Nazis---RECOIL:evil:

White Horseradish
January 3, 2007, 01:19 AM
It just occurred to me that Mosin butt has to cause pains
remember that butt-stroke was a standard move in hands-to-hands combat, once you've broken your BBQ spike a.k.a. Model 1891/30 bayonet And it's the original Russian crowd control device.

Really, a Mosin butt to the teeth would be enough to dissuade just about anybody...

Hoppy590
January 3, 2007, 02:11 AM
And it's the original Russian crowd control device.

Really, a Mosin butt to the teeth would be enough to dissuade just about anybody...

a mosin butt to the shoulder is what im more concerned about :p

metal butt plates of anykind tend to get me.

Antihero
January 3, 2007, 02:17 AM
Since this got bumped back to the top i thought id mention that i got a 91/30 and the recoil is slightly more than nil. Seriously the recoil isnt a problem at all

cracked butt
January 3, 2007, 02:17 AM
My M44 is not the cannon everyone says it is. 203 grain SP rounds go downrange with the kick of a .308. Don't let the internet scare you.

+1
They don't recoil that bad. Most of the perceived recoil is just the muzzle blast.

I'd rather shoot 50 rounds through a mosin carbine from a bench than 5 3" 12 guage turkey loads from a bench.

Eightball
January 3, 2007, 02:48 AM
If you get a mosin, only fire it from the standing position, recoil seems less that way. It ranks in between a .30-30 and some heavy-duty 12 loads, in my book. I can fire a heckuva lot more Mosin rounds than .30-30, though.....maybe just the way it recoils--that, and I'm partial to mine :D And it's rougly comparable to a .308, I'd say just a hair less.

Eightball
January 3, 2007, 02:50 AM
It even comes with a funny-looking spit on the front, looks like it's for barbecuing a chicken.That's the point--spear the chicken, shoot the chicken to kill it, and you cook it with the shot---all in 2 easy steps! Thrust and shoot, and you have dinner, cooked and ready to go!

wnycollector
January 3, 2007, 09:22 AM
The recoil of a mosin nagant carbine is what you would expect from a 7.5 lb 30-06 range caliber...it is stout but NOT horrible! My 91-30 is MUCh more tolerable for extended shooting sessions. I have a simple rubber recoil pad (just like you would find at walmart) that I slide on...but thats it. I cant say enough for most com block surplus rifles. They are cheap, simple, rugged and most of all RELIABLE!

Cacique500
January 3, 2007, 10:52 AM
I collect M39's and love to shoot them, but the recoil can be a bit much at times. I solved this by getting one of the Past Recoil Shields and I can shoot all day long with no issues.

7.62x54R ammo *generally* comes in two flavors, light ball (147 gr) and heavy ball (182 gr) - I tend to stick with the 147 grain but your Mosin may like something else. Get a couple types of ammo and try them out to see which one your rifle likes best.

Three other good sources for you for mosin info (and on cleaning/disassembly):

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/index.asp - off to the right of the page there's a section on disassembly / cleaning.

Another good source is www.gunboards.com - they have a great mosin section with some *really* knowledgeable people.

For general information and an amazing section on ammunition, go to http://www.7.62x54r.com - this is the best reference on 7.62x54R ammunition on the net.

Good luck with it - you love it!

hueytaxi
January 4, 2007, 11:14 PM
Fired my M-44 for the first time last week. Impressed with the iron sights factory zero at the 50 yd. range. Being used to my 7.62 x 39, I was through after 30-35 rounds. I had enough. Not bad, just enough.

CNYCacher
January 4, 2007, 11:55 PM
I also have a 12ga at around 6lbs and have shot hundreds of 2-3/4 slugs through it.

If the shotgun is a 10 on the recoil scale, my M44 is about a 8, maybe a 7.5

You'll love it.

B yond
January 5, 2007, 03:06 PM
I bought an old beat-up M44 (with a good bore) and sporterized it for a long-range rifle, but mostly just for fun.

I only shoot surplus silver-tip through it and I've been doing most of my shooting prone lately. I do notice the kick when firing prone, but it's very manageable from any other position I've tried, and even shooting prone seems to hurt less every time. Maybe I've just damaged the nerves in my shoulder.

My point is this: just shoot it. If it's too much recoil for you, that just means you need to shoot it more. Russians are tough, but they're not superhuman. If they can learn to handle it, you probably can too. :cool:

Prince Yamato
January 5, 2007, 04:55 PM
First step purcase a Styer 95 Carbine, then switch to the M44. It will seem like a pussycat.

Funny, 'cause I own an M95 and was considering getting the M44 and wanted to know what the kick was like. Yes, the steyr will make you VERY sore.

ZeSpectre
January 5, 2007, 04:59 PM
M39 is a thumper and made worse by that nice soft METAL buttplate. I guess if you took a full power 12GA, removed the recoil pad, and put a metal butplate on it you'd have an idea. (Or like the time my SxS 12 GA "doubled" on me with magnum load in it... now THAT was a kick!)

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