Which Mosin-Nagant should i get?


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Antihero
December 21, 2006, 06:21 PM
So which mosin-nagant do you guys think id like more? What im looking for in order of importance is

1 Accuracy (guns are no fun no matter how little you paid if you cant hit anything)

2 Least recoil (guns are no fun when they hurt you no matter how little you paid)

3 Best value,such as which has better sights etc.

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ArmedBear
December 21, 2006, 06:22 PM
Rifles. The rifles.

The carbines kick like little mules. I just like carbines, in general, so I got a couple M38's, and will probably trick one out for pigs.

But it seems you can get a nice 91/30 rifle for a few bucks cheaper than a nice carbine, they're more accurate, they kick less, and they have a longer sight radius, too.

I just didn't want to get a gun that's longer than my sidelock muzzleloader, and try to hunt with it here in brush country.:)

Antihero
December 21, 2006, 06:28 PM
I just didn't want to get a gun that's longer than my sidelock muzzleloader, and try to hunt with it here in brush country.

I should have mentioned that this would be just for target shooting and general I-have-a-surplus-rifle-ness. It wouldnt be used for hunting or anything else.

ArmedBear
December 21, 2006, 07:03 PM
Definitely go for the 91/30 then. An infantry rifle, it is readily available with sling, pouches, bayonet, etc. for well under a hundred bucks in great shape.

It's a true piece of history, a good shooter, with manageable recoil, and one of the surplus-rifliest rifles of all.

George S.
December 21, 2006, 07:43 PM
It doesn't really matter which one you get first. The sickness called "Mosinitis" will set in and you will wind up getting at least one of each type. :D

The M38 and M44 will kick pretty good but sometimes that's half the fun in the carbines. Try shooing one of the carbines around dusk and you will get a fireball that looks like a rocket blasting off!

My 91/30 kicks but not much more than my 1903A3. One nice thing about the 7.62x54R is that you can find reloadable cases and create your own soft loads so you can have a fun day at the range and not have to go a put your shoulder in traction. In any event, a shoulder pad or a slip-on recoil pad is a very good investment :)

ArmedBear
December 21, 2006, 07:44 PM
you can find reloadable cases

Wal-Mart here has quality brass Winchester 7.62x54R FMJ. Shoot 'em, then reload 'em!

Blackfork
December 21, 2006, 07:53 PM
For not much more money you can get a Finn-made nagant. Try www.myoldrifles.com or one of the auction sites.

And ditto on the handloads. A doctor friend of mine shoots Nagants with "cats sneeze" loads. 2-4 grains of powder, toilet paper and a buckshot. It's very quiet in a Nagant. Suposedly it was a silent load to drop sentries with. I'd find myself a light cheaper bullet, say about a 120 or 100 grain and shoot it with the lightest load of powder I could. Handloading for a rifle that takes readlily available cheap ammo may sound nuts, but maybe you could make "mexican match" ammo- pull the bullet, re-weigh and cut the powder charge.

Or just shoot the available mil-surp stuff and buck it out. Plugs and muffs, plus a jacket.

Antihero
December 21, 2006, 07:59 PM
It doesn't really matter which one you get first. The sickness called "Mosinitis" will set in and you will wind up getting at least one of each type.



Uh oh....ive already got Milsurpitis and to a lesser extent Enfielditis, is Mosinitis any worse? Will I <sniff> die?:uhoh:

My milsurpitis is getting so bad im thinking of firing my fathers Carcano that looks to be in "Holy Crap thats not a gun its a dust and cobweb farm!" shape(actually its been checked out by a gunsmith and its in shootable shape).

Why do things llike this always happen when you dont have much money?????:cuss: :fire: :banghead: :(

Antihero
December 21, 2006, 08:00 PM
Or just shoot the available mil-surp stuff and buck it out. Plugs and muffs, plus a jacket.

If its less than a 12 gauge firing slugs in a 6lb gun im good.

possum
December 21, 2006, 08:40 PM
i like the m38's the best, but like was said they will have a bit more recoil and won't be generally as accurate as the longer bareled longer sight radius of the 91/30. giving your wants i would say go with the 91/30.

Juna
December 21, 2006, 08:48 PM
How much does 7.62x54R cost?

CU74
December 21, 2006, 09:04 PM
You can typically get the 440-round cases for under $50. Right now, milsurp 7.62x54R is about the cheapest ammo around. (Don't even ask about the 6.5x55 Swiss:cuss: .)

Get the 91/30 first. It won't be long before you're looking for the M44 and then the M38 and then "moving up" to one of the Finns.

Juna
December 21, 2006, 09:06 PM
How does that compare to 7.62x39 prices? I know both are cheap. I'm just toying with the idea of getting Mosin Nagant some time. Is the recoil really that bad?

jesse485
December 21, 2006, 09:14 PM
Is the recoil really that bad?

In the full sized 91/30, no. But I don't have experience with the others though.

meef
December 21, 2006, 09:30 PM
Recoil can be ever so tamed with the simple addition of a Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad.

It just makes all those shoulder-abusing bad boys soooo much more fun to shoot.

Try it, you'll like it.

DrDeFab
December 21, 2006, 10:21 PM
M44, with one qualification: get a post-war model, 1946-48. Fit & Finish is MUCH better. I don't have any hard evidence, but I strongly suspect that accuracy is a little better as well.

As has been mentioned, it will kick a little more than a 91/30*, but it's lighter & handier.

* ...but not half as bad as my Rem 7400 carbine in 30-06.

Dionysusigma
December 21, 2006, 10:25 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=48902&d=1165367809

Get an M38 and cut it down! :D :evil:

In all honesty, I like the carbines. 'Course, I like recoil (and am a terrible shot to begin with), so...

musher
December 21, 2006, 10:35 PM
For under 300, get one of each and do your own evaluation!

270Win
December 21, 2006, 11:08 PM
7.62x54R is significantly cheaper than x39 at this point. x39 is what, about $160 for 1000 rounds now? You can get 440 rounds of Hungarian silvertip for $44.00... 880 rounds therefore being $88.00 plus shipping. 1320 rounds for $132 (plus shipping).

That's 16 cents a round for x39, and 10 cents a round for x54R (I think). Plus if you go to gun shows, not only can you skip shipping costs altogether, but you can often find cheaper prices. I've seen huge quantities of Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Czech, Russian, you name it... for what amounts to $50 per 1000 rounds. Although the lowest prices usually have some accompanying problem... like a totally mixed lot, you'll hav to sort it out yourself... or very corroded casings... etc.

On a side note, I voted M38 because it's less cumbersome, accurate, a hell of a lot of fun, and I have no need for the M44's bayonet.

Cosmoline
December 21, 2006, 11:11 PM
I'd suggest buying a Finn M39 now, as those are about 100 more scarce than the Soviet 91/30's. You should also look into getting an M-91 or M-30 Tikka. They're still under three bills but they won't stay that way. They tend to be much more accurate than the Soviet Mosins.

Ida Noski
December 21, 2006, 11:21 PM
Antihero,
"Uh oh....ive already got Milsurpitis and to a lesser extent Enfielditis, is Mosinitis any worse? Will I <sniff> die?"
Yes. We're all going to die, sometime:)
You will no doubt end up with the three main versions of the Mosin.
91/30 for reasons already stated.
M44 for fun with a bayo.
My fave is the M38. I'm a carbine fan. People rant about the kick. If you shoot enfields there is not much difference.
Place that rifle butt solidly into your shoulder and squeeze the round off while focusing on the front sight. Most folks that complain about the recoil usually do not get the rifle tight up against the shoulder before pulling the trigger.
Get one (or more) while the ammo is still cheap.
Surplus ammo of all calibers will be drying up here as time goes on.
If you have a Big 5 in your area they are a great place to see what you buy before making the purchase.
Let us know what you end up with.
Good shooting and "Hold Hard".
Jim

Ohen Cepel
December 21, 2006, 11:25 PM
With your criteria I would say the 91. The others have a lot more recoil (for me at least). None of mine are what I would call accurate. However, with iron sites on an old battle rifle I'm happy with them.

meef
December 22, 2006, 01:55 AM
I'd suggest buying a Finn M39 now, as those are about 100 more scarce than the Soviet 91/30's.There's a really nice one on Gunbroker right now.

Not cheap, but oh so nice.... :D

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=62665945

mrmeval
December 22, 2006, 03:45 AM
I just received two M44's from Interordinance and they are awesome. I picked the laminate stocked ones. These look like they just came off the assembly line! The bores and actions are pristine. The action on both is pretty stiff.

I've not had a chance to fire them yet but I'm very please with what I have at this point.

The barrel, receiver and bayonet are blued. The bolt is not.

I'm giving Interordinance a recommendation over these. They are slow to ship, it took three days for them to pull them and ship them and four days to receive them but the wait has been worth it.

I have a C&R so it is cheaper for me to direct order. I saved the 01 FFL fee on both which is around 50 or so depending on FFL.

ArchAngelCD
December 22, 2006, 04:04 AM
I like my 91/30 better than my son's M44, but then again, that's why I bought it!! :neener: If you're looking for accuracy then get the 91/30 since the longer rifle is more accurate than the carbine. If you buy a carbine get the M38 since the bayonet on the M44 can get in the way. I have fun with the 91/30, probably the best $96 I've spent on a rifle. Also, the 91/30 has less felt recoil than the carbine but the carbine in no way kicks like a mule as posted in this thread by someone. You should shoot 147 gr ammo since that's what the gun was intended to shoot, not the 180 gr stuff that also available.

english kanigit
December 22, 2006, 05:32 AM
In all honesty hop on over to http://www.mosinnagant.net/ and learn what makes a Finnish mosin better. Learn how to identify them.

Got that part? Good.

Now learn the local pawnshops. Frequently visit them, make nice with the owner/s and learn how to pawn shop (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/05/pawn-shopping-secrets.html).

Done that? Great!

Now, be patient. :rolleyes: I know... it's the hardest part. Buy a few smaller things here and there, but keep your eyes open and your ears to the ground. Visit frequently.

Eventually you will come accross a Finn. Probably an M-39 (http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/finnish_mosin_nagantm39.asp), maybe a reworked M-91 (http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finn-Mosin-Nagant-M91.asp) or if your a really lucky bastard (and the karma fairy really likes you) it'll be an M-28/30 (http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/MosinNagant-M2830rifle-introduction.asp).

Depending on the shop the owner will know what he has, or, quite often he doesn't. I mean, after all "A Mosin's a Mosin's a piece of junk."

I picked up my last M-39 for $85. It's a prewar stocked VKT with a counterbored barrel. And she can shoot. ;)



-ek

mrmeval
December 22, 2006, 08:30 AM
What do you think of this Finn? As far as I can tell the wood is all that's a problem.
$179.95

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Gunsmith_Specials_.html

I'm tempted but I've just got my first M44s and really don't have the spare funds.

Cosmoline
December 22, 2006, 08:41 AM
Meh. I don't care much for AIM. WGA has better deals. Plus you get to see detailed photos of *THE* rifle you're buying, not a sample of what you might or might not get.

Gaucho Gringo
December 22, 2006, 10:01 PM
I was wondering what happened to the million or so Mossins that Remington made during WWI? They were taken over by the US after the Russian Revolution and were used for training. After WWI I read they were sold under the Civillian Marksmanship program. There is little mention of them after this. 1 million rifles just don't go missing. Where are they? Safe queens, stored in abandonded mines or ????. I would think these to be really well made rifles.

Cosmoline
December 22, 2006, 10:18 PM
They were the first Mosins on the US surplus market. The Czar's checks bounced, so most of them never left the US. Most were sold off in the 20's and 30's for absurdly low prices. The famous surplus outlet Bannerman's rechambered a very large number into .30'06 because at the time 54R was not easy to get stateside. I've seen about half dozen of these over the years. Many, many more were bubbafied or customized to some extent. Usually a rechambering and chopping of the stock. The original mint condition US made Mosins can fetch a premium. Some have been going for over a grand on gunbroker in bidding wars. The cut ones are only worth $150 at most, though. It's a classic example of why you shouldn't hack and slash.

If you keep a close eye out, you can find these and other gems mis-marked and going for very good prices. I picked up an M28-30 several years ago that was marked as a "Rusian Moosin" and tagged for a C note. That one had seen the rough end of the Winter War. I picked my second 28-30 up mis-tagged as an M-39 and going for two bills. I've lost count of the M-91's mismarked as other things. www.7.62x54R.net has a great comparison guide.

mio
December 22, 2006, 10:44 PM
i have an m44 that i havent shot yet because ive been working 6 days a week this month and when i get a day off its for family time (dont bother suggesting family time at the range my stepdaughter is 4 and gunshots scare her they are too loud for her even with muffs) anyway i read an article on mosins in the november issue of guns magazine and the author who was using 200gr ammo (dont remember what brand) said that he got groups of 1 7/8" at 100 yards with the bayonet out and groups about the same size but 2.75" lower with the bayonet folded to the side.

anybody shot thiers both ways and noticed this? and can i expect that accuracy from mine it was made in izhevsk in 53 if that helps. i plan to sporterize it and use it as a deer rifle so a 2" group is great esp since i usually only shoot 40-50yrds but i dont want to have to wander around with my bayonet sticking out.

Stiletto Null
December 22, 2006, 10:47 PM
My M44's groups open up and move a couple inches to 2-o'clock with the bayonet folded.

Another M39 vote here.

worker
December 23, 2006, 04:34 AM
from what I have read on the net:

When selecting ammo, keep in mind the following
a lot of milsurplus 7.62x54R is from machine guns purposes,
only Czech ammo was made for the rifles
many people (including myself) have problems
with laquered ammo as the bolt 'glues' to the chamber
and does not want to open after just a couple of rounds
(there are remedies though...)


the right number of Mosins (M91/30) to have is 2 :)
and at least one with Darell's Scout Scope mount
(it does not require cutting off the bolt)

http://p077.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85

also if the receive is not round, but instead hex, apparently it costs a little more

Tallyman
December 23, 2006, 01:20 PM
The M38 is the best choice over the M44 and the loooooong M91/30 if you are going to use them for hunting. Recoil can be reduced with a quick-detach muzzle brake. Many being sold on eBay and discount houses have been known to blow off the barrel with the first or second shot, but a quality muzzle brake is available at:

http://ShootersExchange.com/srchresults.cfm?type=Rifle&manuf=Mosin-Nagant&inv_id=&Submit=Search+Firearms

Most muzzle brakes are made for carbines. The M91/30 has a longer, more tapered barrel and the muzzle diameter is smaller than on the carbines. Muzzle brakes made for the carbines will be a loose fit on the M91/30 and will have to be fitted by sleeving the brake.

dstorm1911
December 23, 2006, 02:10 PM
classic arms has Fin captured 91s on a special right now for $129 I think, if ya have an FFL ya can get a true sniper minus the scope and mount from Century directly for $229 these are not EX snipers they still have the turned down bolt, the stock and look like the mounts were removed recently probably by the bulgarians to sell seperatly, I've gotten 6 of them all 6 have shiny pristine bores and excellent wood, they are not rearsenaled so no crappy orange shelac slathered all over everything etc...and all 6 are totally original stamped matching, I will start replacing scopes and mounts as time permits.. unfortunatly will probably have to use reproduction mounts and scopes as the originals are super scarce. but the cutouts in the stocks are original and are much better done than the fake snipers being cranked out with cutouts that are clearly new work and poorly executed etc...

The 91/30 is a must have every collector needs at least one hex recieverd MN, forget the auction sites etc... look up

Classic arms

Empire arms

AIM Surplus

J&G Sales

SOG Surplus

Century international arms (need ffl account to get prices)

Dans ammo

Davids collectables

there are a ton of dealers online, if ya are in the FT Worth tx area drop in at Military gun supply they are under new ownership and have some really nice stuff hanging on the walls not listed on their site etc... Classic arms though is one of the better to order from if ya are buying sight unseen...

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