Who says a 16", chrome lined AR15 can't be accurate at longer distances?


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BrainOnSigs
December 25, 2006, 08:23 AM
I decided to mount a Leupold VX-III 8.5-25x50mm Long Range scope (that wasn't seeing much use) onto my RRA Elite Car. The intent was to hit some steel poppers at ranges from 200 to 600 yards. My shooting buddy chuckled when he saw this large scope on a 16", chrome lined AR15.
I proceeded to whack the heck out of some prairie dog steel poppers at 600 yards with very average Remington UMC 55 gr FMJ ammo. I threw a 12" Shoot-N-C onto a target and shot this 10 shoot group at 600 yards. ( Three true flyers). Nothing spectacular but I could hit COM all day long. I was amazed that I did this well using a short barrel (non-free floated)that is chrome lined and with very average ammo.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL875/3165911/7400197/215910058.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL875/3165911/8282895/211055541.jpg

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GTSteve03
December 25, 2006, 08:44 AM
Man, that sure looks awkward, but there's no arguing with the results!

Good shootin' :cool:

BrainOnSigs
December 25, 2006, 09:00 AM
Yeah...the scope is over kill but the LaRue SPR mount is da bomb! No better mount for a flat top on the planet.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL875/3165911/8282895/211055509.jpg

Chris Rhines
December 25, 2006, 09:46 AM
Good technique + good hardware = good results. Nice shooting.

I'd call that a 12" group at 600 yards, that's 2MOA with a stock chrome-lined barrel and standard-grade factory ammunition. There are plenty of rifles (and plenty of shooters) out there that won't hold that close.

- Chris

possum
December 25, 2006, 10:45 AM
good shooting brother, not bad at all. i knew that 16" barreld ar's would hit at 600yds but those are better results than i thought. i wish there was a range around here where i could shoot out that far.

usmcdoc14
December 25, 2006, 11:07 AM
long barreled weapons are not inherently more accurate than a short barreled one nor does barrel length really affect accuracy. Barrel stiffness and quality are more important.

Anyone who tells you short barreled rifles are not accurate needs to be smacked :D

de
December 25, 2006, 11:12 AM
I put a Leopould Vari X II, 2 to 7 on my Bushmaster M4 and got clover leaf groups at the 50, and under an inch at 100. Gallon water jugs at 400 are not a problem. Coyotes however, hate it.

10-Ring
December 25, 2006, 11:20 AM
From what I've read, it's not really accuracy you lose but velocity. Nice shooting! ;) Merry Christmas!!!!:cool:

Steve Wynn
December 25, 2006, 11:33 AM
Looks nice....and if you chronograph it and the longer barrels you'll find that there isn't that much difference in velocity. And sometimes a change to a different powder can close that little gap a bit.

It's been a while but I recall reading a test where they chronographed a barrel and kept cutting it off an inch at a time. Sure it'll drop but you won't notice any difference that will make it noticable.

I still shake my head in amazement when I hear people talking about a short barrelled revolver not being accurate.

Steve

usmcdoc14
December 25, 2006, 11:39 AM
It's been a while but I recall reading a test where they chronographed a barrel and kept cutting it off an inch at a time. Sure it'll drop but you won't notice any difference that will make it noticable.

I still shake my head in amazement when I hear people talking about a short barrelled revolver not being accurate.

Steve
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

Wes Janson
December 25, 2006, 02:30 PM
15 inches looks to be the sweet spot on that rifle.

The thing is, if you're cutting down the barrel on a handgun, you're cutting down your sight radius. Then skill becomes all the more important.

GoRon
December 25, 2006, 02:49 PM
Barrel stiffness and quality are more important.

The Elite CAR has a pretty heavy barrel on it.

Nice shooting!

JTW Jr.
December 25, 2006, 06:25 PM
nice shooting !! :cool:

what range did you have the scope zeroed at ?

I hope to get out and try some 600 yard shooting with my Sabre Defense bll'd AR ( 1:8 fluted ) really soon.

Don't Tread On Me
December 25, 2006, 06:58 PM
I have a pencil-barreled Colt that when I shoot from a bench (not really rested, just elbows on the table)...using an Aimpoint, all holes are touching at 50 yards.

On AR15.com, I've seen 1-2 posts lately about people saying how their 6520 can shoot great groups. For a thin, 16", chromed barrel - they shoot really, really well. That's great for a non-freefloated, 5.56 chambered service grade rifle.

There is no truth to "thicker is better" ....it's all in the quality of the rifling, chamber, bore etc...barrel stiffness comes last imo. RRA obviously uses decent barrels. Had the fellow who shot those groups used 69gr Sierra Match Kings match grade loads or a premium match bullet like that handloaded, it is safe to say that group might be 1/2 the size.

55gr UMC isn't bad ammo, but it is no where near as good as the SMK.

Bartholomew Roberts
December 26, 2006, 12:52 PM
That is a very good group for your average factory ammo. Even run-of-the-mill chrome-lined barrels are certainly capable of getting your attention at 600yds - especially if you are shooting at something silhouette sized.

Nimitz
December 26, 2006, 01:13 PM
I wish and dream of a range around here where I can let my AR go loose on some long range stuff...if only I had a 500m range :(


tis not much of a challenege with a 150y range:cool:

Chad

El Tejon
December 26, 2006, 01:17 PM
People still say that, BoS? That the whole barrel length, inherent vs. practical accuracy, had to shot to pieces years and years ago.:uhoh:

gezzer
December 26, 2006, 09:35 PM
Note the presision nuts called bench rest shooters "Love" short stiff barrels. They have proven many times they shoot the best.

BrainOnSigs
December 27, 2006, 08:16 AM
People still say that, BoS? That the whole barrel length, inherent vs. practical accuracy, had to shot to pieces years and years ago

I think my point is that if you add in the chrome-lining (that argument...while slowly fading is still in bloom) and the use of non-hand loaded, light ammo plus shooting off a bipod with no rear sand bag.......that a person can still put 10 rounds into a 12" target at a decent distance. It was just a fun experiment in which I was pleasantly suprised.

benEzra
December 27, 2006, 10:08 AM
tis not much of a challenege with a 150y range
Get a mini-14, then it'll be a challenge... :D

Best 100-yard group my 188-series Ranch Rifle has ever shot in 16 years, with or without optics, with or without premium ammunition, from a front rest and rear bag, cool barrel, windless day:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=49644&stc=1&d=1166703910

Which is one reason I've been saving my pennies for an RRA CAR Elite A4 someday...

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