The 2007 schedule is out for the Appleseed Shoots http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1385.0
Who is going and where?
Are there any of you interested in doing one near Louisville, KY/Cincinnati, OH in the early Spring? I have some property half way between the two cities on I-71 and have been considering hosting one, but not sure what the interest would be.
Sound off if you are going, or if you have an interest in one this Spring in KY near OH/IN.
It looks like the dates of the Northern Kentucky shoot will be April 7-8
Please go to the link above to sign up or to get more information on the program
PM me here if you have any question that I may be able to answer, hope to see a bunch of you there.
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December 26, 2006, 11:43 AM
Now there is the spirit!
A NEWBIE offering his land towards the developement of marksmanship skills in his countrymen!
See. it doesn't take much to get this started, just a place with a decent backstop where 20-30-50-100 folks can line up and shoot for precision at 25 meters (yards) using rifles that have been long abandoned (?) in the closet with surplus or budget ammunition!
I'd be honored to cross my state (PA) and Ohio to come and help.
Comeo n guys, lets takehim up on his offer!
.22, .223, 7.62x39, 7.62x 51, .308, .30-06, 8mm mauser, etc etc
iron sights, peeps, even scopes!
Autoloaders, pumps, levers, bolts, whatever you can handle!
Mag fed are "easiest" but we can work with closed mags and tube mags just as well!
December 26, 2006, 02:46 PM
I'm hosting a mini shoot January 6th, 2007 in Birmingham, Alabama...
We will also be hosting the 2ND ANNUAL 2 day Appleseed Shoot March 17-18th, 2007
December 26, 2006, 03:43 PM
I'm going to the Orlando shoot!
December 26, 2006, 05:19 PM
I've been thinking about going to the Orlando shoot but am trying to get at least one of my guns sighted in and accurate. Worst case, I could show up with my scoped 10/22 but I'd rather shoot something with a little more snot to it.
December 26, 2006, 05:31 PM
Well, here are some thoughts.
The MAJORITY of the Course of Fire is at 25 meters, so your 10/22 will STILL give you the critical part of the practice needed to become a Rifleman. And it'll be much cheeper to shoot.
Secondly, if you simply must bring the larger bore gun, lessons learned at the Appleseed will help you zero the stick (if reliable) with ONE SHOT!
Just make sure you bring any special tools needed to adjust the front or rear sights.
December 26, 2006, 08:51 PM
I would be interested in going to a KY applseed shoot.
I went to the last one in Morehead and had a great time and learned a lot. Brushing up on that knowledge, more practice , and meeting more good people is a good time.
PM me to see what I might be able to do to help you out to bring this about.
December 26, 2006, 09:44 PM
I am new to this forum but I wanted to give my 2 cents about the Appleseed program. It is the best 70 bucks you can spend (45 if you can only go one day) to learn how to shoot. I have been to 2 Appleseeds and I have learned so much from them. I have also attended the Small Arms Firing School taught by the Army Marksmenship Unit at Camp Perry Ohio and in comparison the Appleseed instruction far surpassed the level of instruction and quality I experienced in Ohio. After an Appleseed you will leave with several things. Some sore muscles from training them to form shooting positions
( prone,sitting, standing) which makes you feel alive and hopefully a renewed and strengthened pride of being an American and also a new awareness of what duties and responsibilities that is required of each of us Americans. You will also hav ethe tools neccessary to be an excellent marksmen. The weekend begins as the entire group listens to the stories of sacrifice and dedication that our founding fathers exhibited so they we could even have privilege to be called Americans. It was a moving and trully a motivational collection of words on what it means to be an American. A group of volunteers who came together from every walk of life to achieve a common goal: FREEDOM! A group of people who DID something that was right. The appleseed ties all of these qualities our founders possessed along with the skills of what it means to be an American RIFLEMAN. I went thinking I could shoot as well as anyone and left with the realization that I had better get my apron ready because I was a Cook :) . I now can shoot to rifleman standards all because of this course. It makes shooting so much more satisfying to be able to accurately and consistently hit a target with ANY zeroed rifle out to 500 yards. I can not say enough good things about this program. If you want to meet a bunch of Friendly, Knowledgeable America loving people I would highly recommend attending an Appleseed.
December 26, 2006, 10:04 PM
Count me in.
I've attended shoots in Evansville, IN and Morehead, KY and would gladly attend yet another. If not as a shooter, then as a volunteer.
December 27, 2006, 10:07 PM
Since your Appleseed is close(ish) I will do my best to get there, date/wife dependent. I already have plans for Ramsuer in Feb and of course Bloomington Il. in June, plus Vermont once Nickle gets things going. If I get to sneak away one more weekend....
WoW, The Guy has plans for at least THREE! THIS YEAR! Oh yeah, Appleseed is where it's at folks. Come the first time to learn/confirm marksmanship, come after for the fellowship. Besides, where else will you get to rip through 500 rounds in a weekend beside 40-100 other folks who love firearms as much(or more) than you?
Beginer to expert, there is something for all.
See ya there on the firing line!
December 28, 2006, 07:12 PM
OK, Never heard of this but am very interested. Are their limits on weapons or what is the deal?
December 28, 2006, 07:38 PM
There is a link in the first post that will lead you to a bunch of information. And here is a link to FAQs about the Appleseed program http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?board=50.0
As for your questions here:
There is no specifications on which type of weapon. The concept is to give you the shooting skills to be able to maximize the rifle you are shooting to it's maximum range, with an ultimate goal of out to 500+ yards. To give you the personal tools to reach the "Rifleman's Standard" of 4 MOA, with a standard rifle, in field positions (no bipod or bench rest)
It is usually a weekend event, and you will get to shoot @ 300-400 rounds total. Most (and sometimes all) of the shooting is done at 25 meters, with targets sized to simulate targets at 100-200-300-400-500 yards. There will be instruction on the basics of firing a shot, on bullet trajectory, range estimation, doping for wind, and correcting for range/elevation.
You are expected to bring the rifle you have (not buy a special one), but the prefered rifle would be a semi-auto, magazine fed full caliber rifle. I have seen the following rifles at the shoots, and all are welcome: 22s (bolt and semi), M1a, FAL, HK 91&93, AR15, AK47, SKS, M1Garands, M1 Carbines, Mausers, 30-30, and many more. The key is to have a safe rifle, that is willing to shoot 400 rounds in a weekend. In some cases (PM me if needed) loaner rifles can be found. Optics are accepted, but it is preferred to learn the basics with Iron sights. Bipods and bench rests are not used. It is @ $70 for the weekend, that will include your targets, T-shirt, Great company, motivational conversation and perhaps a free hot dog, and some sore muscles:D .
There are lots of good folks at these shoots, that love shooting, America, and the Second Amendment. There are usually a bunch of "beginners" at the shoots (more beginners than Riflemen), and everyone is supportive and happy to help. The sun is always shining, the wind is always calm and the temp is a dry 72 degrees, if not, then they will return all of your spent brass for free!
If you come to the Kentucky one on April 7-8, and score Rifleman on your shoot, I will buy you a steak! How's that?
December 28, 2006, 07:48 PM
I hope to attend the October, Mingus, TX shoot with Bjg0082.
Gun Wielding Maniac
December 28, 2006, 08:00 PM
I attended the last Kentucky shoot and was very pleased with what I found there. The Appleseed group isnt just a bunch of half-assed bumpkins. They are dedicated and motivated to teach their students valuable skills. I still frequently use the reduced distance qualification targets to hone my own skills and to challenge my friends. It really will be more difficult then you think, if you've never fired a reduced distance course before. I'll likely be attending this course as well, if I'm not deployed.
December 28, 2006, 08:13 PM
funfaler, I'll have to check the schedule and the distance but I am considering going to one in Taccoa, GA, closest to me, they appear to have two scheduled this year. Hopefully I can make both. Thanks for the info sounds like great fun.
December 29, 2006, 10:26 AM
I sent a PM to funfaler when he first posted this, but might as well tell the group I am going to try my hardest to get to this. I may have a scheduling conflict, but I'll know for sure in a couple of weeks.
I'm glad to hear everyone say that all skill levels and equipment are welcome. I've plinked with a .22 my whole life but have never had any instruction with a rifle. I'm mainly a handgun guy and that has been my focus. After recently stumbling upon the RWVA site, I am now reading "Boston's Gun Bible" for the second time and have "Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman" on the way.
The only centerfire rifles I own are a Yugo SKS and a K31 (that I just picked up last week). I told myself that once I prove I can be closer to a Rifleman than a cook, I'll treat myself to .308.
December 29, 2006, 11:12 AM
I'd be interested in the KY shoot.
December 29, 2006, 12:31 PM
Sounds very interesting. I wish there was one in SC.
December 29, 2006, 01:06 PM
Ill be at the Saugus shoot!
December 29, 2006, 08:27 PM
Man, wait till I tell Junior Birdman that! He is working like heck on a S.C. shoot as I type this! Get on over to the RWVA forum ASAP and find the "Throwing down the gauntlet for South Carolina" in the genneral topics cat. Hell, here's the link www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1912.0
Tell JB that the guy sent you.
You have a K-31, it doesn't get much more Rifleman than that! I would expect that with a little instruction from the "Red Hats" that you would be drilling the targets like a pro. Bring your .22 also, as everyone should have a backup rifle incase the primary goes down. Seems to happen often enough that having a secondary is recomended.
December 30, 2006, 12:09 AM
I'd be shooting my K31 too, Meanstreaker. Unless I get something new, my K98 will have to be my backup.
December 30, 2006, 03:09 PM
I am going to one for sure. Not sure which one though, maybe Birmingham. I'll be bringing a little .22.
January 1, 2007, 02:37 PM
You have a K-31, it doesn't get much more Rifleman than that! I would expect that with a little instruction from the "Red Hats" that you would be drilling the targets like a pro.
True. Everyone tells me how accurate they are. Unfortunately with the Holidays, I haven't even had a chance to take it to the range yet to prove it. I'm hoping I can do so tomorrow.
January 1, 2007, 08:20 PM
I'm going to try to make both of the PA shoots and maybe some of the mini shoots at LRGC in between.
January 2, 2007, 12:34 PM
I've got a fair amount of training and experience with handguns, but none with rifles (if you don't count plinkin' down by the tracks...).
I would really, really like to go to the Orlando shoot, but I really don't have a rifle I'd consider taking. What's the cheapest, easiest to acquire, and easiest feed centerfire rifle that would be "good enough" to take?
January 2, 2007, 01:11 PM
You're one of hte sub-groups of folk we're trying to get!
Per the various "combat experts" in the past, a sidearm is useful because it's always with you, but it is really only the tool to fight your way back to the rifle you set down!
I wish to take a liberty in answering your question, because you framed it very tight. So here goes.
'What is the most inexpensive (centerfire) rifle I can get...'
We in Appleseed circles have been working up a concept of the "Trainer" rifle for use of the juniors, and adults, for less than the cost of an arm or a leg in practice. It's the round count and the concentration on perfect replication of the "Six Steps" that builds Rifleman Marksmanship Skills. http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1149.0
Now, why I BELIEVE in the center fire .30 or larger for target interdiction and homeland defense, it is getting way expensive to shoot off 3000 rounds of even mil surplus to build that skill (takes about 2000 reps to build the skill, 10,000 reps to repair an error...)
So, my first, glib, answer, is ANY STICK YOU ALREADY HAVE, even in .22LR!
Bolt, Lever, Pump, Auto, Break Action...it doesn't matter as long as YOU learn how to use it well, and that means lots of PRACTICE (a .50 BMG, for example, would be a but tough on the body to practice well!)
IN FACT, there is a lot to using a "lo/no" recoil rifle to get the basics down pat.
If you were able to convince yourself that you were learing, you'll find that DRY FIRE is an integral part of the learning process. We have some drills, like balancing a dime or quarter on the barrel at the front sight, to reinforce proper trigger control, one of the key "Six Steps", and one ENTIRELY UNDER OPERATOR CONTROL, which can be done with a BB gun, air gun, airsoft, etc.
Breath control, NPOA (Natural Point of Aim) sight alignment and sight picture can all be practiced without life ammo.
Calling the shot, after trigger control, part of follow through, requires a shot to be fired...though many simulators using laser beams are being developed for that (not inexpensive,though)
I brought in the BB guns, pellet guns, and airsoft intentionally, because although they may not be "real" firearms, they still project, and thus give feedback, and can be used INDOORS for many in inclement weather, or when you can only cut out 15 mintutes (nightly) to practice.
A .22LR trainer, like a modified 10/22 mag fed rifle, will force you to practice all the above steps, and most assuradly reinforce NPOA, as you will unwittingly change your NPOA with the magazine changes. We do this INTENTIONALLY in the Appleseed, even having you change targets mid string, and /or move firing point, all to "burn in" the critical steps, and NPOA!
And a .22LR 10/22 is cheap, shots inexpensive ammo, so you won't cry so much about the 3000 rounds (last I bought, was Federal, at $15.00 /brivk of 1000. $45.00 for 3000 rounds, vs Mil Surp .308 at $700, or XM193 @ $350)
We shoot, for training and early reflex building, at 25 meter, 82 feet, INTENTIONALLY, to let you see and call your shots. This is perfect rqange for the .22LR
Now, after the firing position, and six steps are internallized, it IS TIME to go to full range for some additional learning on trajectory and windage, etc.
Any round that can make your AO (Area of Operation) target dissappear is fine.
Bolt/lever/pump guns are fine, if you don't have to make a lot of targets go away fast. In fact bolts are reportedly THE MOST Accurate and reliable action type. Problem is finding one that is still realiable after being converted to magazine feed, or one that has the clip slots milled.
Imports include the MauserK98, Mosin Nagant, Enfield, etc. In fact Aim Surplus has some Ishapore ENfield on sale right now for <$200 http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Enf-2A__Enfield_2A_.308_NATO_7.62x51_Rifles.html
If you are restricted to, let's say, 200 yards max visible range, the SKS has quite a following at Appleseeds. Cheap (<$200), fed by stripper clips, fairly reliable, once the nut behind the stock learns the stick, using cheap, surplus, or imported ammunition. Many shooters on the various boards cosnider this almost a "throw away" firearm. You'll see that if you look up "Truck Guns".
The AR-15, at about $800 or more, shooting 5.56 ammo (known to others as .223 subtle differences, but lets just accept it for now) will get you this distance with some "slowing power" with good solid CNS (Central Nervous System) hits, and will be a tack driver at distance for punching paper. Doesn't like "cover" too much though.
We do, in preps, tend to think of the "human wave" attacks of the past, and many would prefer a mag fed major caliber rifle (semi auto for quik follow up). As you can plainly see, I don't favor the AR-15 here, but prefer a .308 or .30-06
AK-47 have a lot of followers here, but the round itself may not have oomph left at the RIFLEMAN's Half-KM (500 meters)
This is where it gets expensive to practice a lot, and you'll find many opinions to fathom through. These guns are not inexpensive, and require some degree of tender loving care, so I would suggest you start out with the Milsurp listed above.
Hope this 'little' intro helps.
January 2, 2007, 01:23 PM
Happy to see that you are looking to "extend your reach".
I can, in good conscience, only "recommend" that you get a quality Main Battle Rifle in 308, such as an M1a, FAL, and perhaps HK.
BUT I understand exactly what you are asking, so I will answer to the best of my abilities.
The best and inexpensive way to experience an Appleseed is to get a Ruger 10/22. It will offer you the ability to shoot a semi-auto, mag fed rifle with the least expensive ammo (plan on 400 rounds for the weekend, $9). You can make several modifications to the 10/22 to make is a very good AQT 25 meter trainer, and when you decide what "real" rifle you would like, you can always us the 10/22 for cheap practice and a loaner/introduction rifle for others (which is the true reason for the Appleseed program, to get others involved). You can improve the trigger pull for @ $40, the sights for @$60, and the mag release for @$3, at your leisure.
If your desire is to get a bonafide rifle that you can learn to shoot at the Appleseed and use as your battle rifle, if only in the interm. I would suggest that you get a good SKS. It is still semi-auto, easy enough to get, reload, the ammo is reasonable, and it is accurate enough to teach you the required skills, and will perform well out to 300 yards. It is the cheapest way to meet the above requirements, and it will hold its value for when you want to upgrade to a 308 rifle. You can either sell it to help fund the purchase, or keep it as a backup/loaner rifle.
While there are many rifles out there, and different options and opinions, this is the route I would go.
Once you shoot at an Appleseed, you will qualify for the CMP program and be able to get a relatively inexpensive M1 Garand, but for my money, I would continue to save $$ and get a true battle rifle first. While you will often see military bolt action rifles at the Appleseed (Mausers, Springfields and such), these are not really ideal, and are not that inexpensive. Sure you can pick up a Mauser for @$70, but the ammo/stipper clips will make up some of the difference with a SKS, and you will have to become very proficient in reloading/operating the rifle to truely benefit from the training. If you were to consider the AK 47 platform, you would suffer in the accuracy arena as well as the range criteria. The AR15 platform is fine, but also suffers in the range arena, and the $$ would be very close to that of a real battle rifle in 308.
Hunting rifles, while better than nothing, are not really built to handle that many rounds in a weekend, and most are not designed to be reloaded quickly. You would be better off getting an older military type rifle (SKS,Mauser, Garand) that is build to handle the pounding.
All that said, in reallity, the goal of the Appleseed is to teach YOU the skills to use any rifle to its maximum range, so WHAT YOU HAVE AND BRING IS WHAT WILL BE BEST, BUT JUST GO!!!
Another option that you might explore, is to see if you can find someone to loan you a rifle for the weekend. This will give you an option to try a platform, attend the shoot, and save some initial $$ before hand. I know I have several rifles that I would be willing to loan (shooter provides the ammo) to someone who wants to learn to shoot, but I'm in Kentucky, and that won't help you there.
Good luck, it is worth the effort and expense to attend an Appleseed. The instruction is top notch, and the price/value is exceptional.
January 3, 2007, 08:13 PM
funfaler, I notice that the Northern KY shoot you're hosting doesn't show up at the RWVA link you provided yet.
Is it definitely a go?
January 6, 2007, 03:14 PM
The Northern Kentucky shoot is going to happen. The dates are going to change, I can't say to when right now. April 7-8 is Easter weekend, not a good date (my fault for not checking the calender better). I am currently trying to secure a date in the Spring, but it may have to wait until Fall.
I will post here as soon as I know, and the information will also be available on the RWVA site when it is set.
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the interest.
January 6, 2007, 04:43 PM
Pacer and funfaler pretty much said it all. I will be taking 3 rifles with me to the shoots. My 2 M1As and a .22. One will be a backup, and one will be a loaner, JIC.
As I qualify Rifleman, I will be switching to my other rifles/trying out new ones.
A SKS is a cheap(ish) way to get started. Install Tech sights, get some stripers (clips that is) and maybe a 20 round mag, and you're off. There is a wealth of information avalible on getting a SKS up and running, Appleseed style, at the home forum, www.rwva.org/yabbse/index There is also multiple pages for modifying a 10-22 to run more like a M1A, like auto bolt hold-open, better (more suitable) sights and stock options.
The main thing is that you get to an Appleseed and get to work earning your rifleman badge. The equipment you use is up to you, but feel no obligation to run out and purchase a brand new 7.62xwhatever just for this. Granted, a semi, mag fed works best, but people have made do with other options. There was a younger person at a shoot with a tube fed .22 who kept up just fine with the "big" boys.
Finally, feel free to pm me with questions, or check out the RWVA forum. link above.
January 18, 2007, 06:45 PM
It is official! March 31-April 1 at Carrollton, KY.
The details can be found at http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php
It is @ 50 minutes from the Cincinnati and Louisville airports. Plenty of hotels and food within 3 miles of the shoot. FREE TARGETS TO ALL THAT ATTEND!, and all the spent brass you can carry after the event!
Good chance to meet good people, spend some ammo, and gain valuable skills.
Post questions here, I (or someone smarter than me) will try to answer.
See you there,
January 18, 2007, 07:14 PM
......looks like I will be there for a slightly early birthday pressent to myself.
Although shooting on April Fools may not be the best idea.:D
All right shooters, step right up and start commiting!!
January 18, 2007, 07:52 PM
Birthday Boys get first pick on the firing line:neener:
January 19, 2007, 12:25 AM
Fun fun fun till pee-loosy (tries to) takes the ammo away!
Here's lookin' at you kid. :neener: :neener: :neener:
January 19, 2007, 09:03 AM
Hey, Pacer and funfaler...
I jsut wanted to add on here that I'm as set for the shoot as I can be (on my budget) and I'm really looking forward to it. The lovely and talented Mrs. ceetee has agreed to take over my dog-feeding and walking responsibilities for the weekend, and this is going to be my early birthday/father's day gift.
So I'll see you there!
January 19, 2007, 09:20 AM
Count me in!
I'm like a giddy school girl, I just can't wait to go to my first Appleseed.
Me, my SKS (if I don't have a 7.62x51 by then) and all the necessary items listen in the Appleseed site, for a good time.
Today I'm ordering Fred's books and targets to get some home schooling in before the shoot.
I WILL NOT FAIL!
January 19, 2007, 09:36 AM
And RTFM, (great handle) THAT'S THE APPLESEED SPIRIT!
Best of luck, and stay safe.
Make every shot count
January 19, 2007, 11:58 AM
Good deal! Let me know if I can help out in any way. Looking forward to seeing everyone.
January 19, 2007, 12:03 PM
I should be able to make the new date. Looking forward to it.
January 19, 2007, 12:06 PM
If there was one near Oklahoma City, I'd love to go... but the nearest one's in Texas, and my car can't do long trips anymore. :(
January 19, 2007, 12:15 PM
Some one is trying to get one up near you, but for the life of me I can't remember who.
Check the forum and post the question there, or post that you would like to go and need a ride. You never know who is comming from where.
February 3, 2007, 01:10 PM
They just cancelled the ********** shoot, due to concerns about being seen as a militia. Apparently it could be prosecuted. Im not happy, as I was looking forward to this for 6 months!
February 3, 2007, 02:56 PM
Welcome to Amerika! I think we will get to see more of this, unless we get strong and active in the local/state governments. The good news, you may be able to travel a little bit to a free state and get involved in a shoot. Or just move:p Lots of states looking for Freedom loving folks.
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