Amusing store visit report...


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mrcpu
December 27, 2006, 07:23 AM
My W and I went to the local "Blackbird" here in Medford OR, she's looking for a 9, or a .22 for target practice and such.

So we arrived, had a long wait waiting for somebody to help us. Finally this kid comes over, and the saga begins.

Lets see, some of the inanities:

1) 22's don't work in semi-auto, they jam all the time, and nobody uses them. Apparently he's never heard of the rugers or the conversion kits...

2) Didn't check most of the guns by opening them, just picked 'em up, twirled them on his finger a few times, then handed them over. Some you could see (like the revolvers) had the orange guard thing in place, but the semi's, he probably only opened half.

3) Told us that it's not safe to use the decocker on the 9mm S&W (don't remember the exact model #, but it looks like a 9mm version of my M457, you're supposed to lower the hammer somehow by hand. How, I don't know.
Said he got in trouble from the manager for using the decocker...

4) Works the slide by pushing on the front of the slide with his elbows and various body parts in front of the muzzle. And sometimes his hand over the ejection port. Not sure where the potential round was supposed to go...

5) Thinks the .357 magnum kicks only a little harder than 22 lr. 38's, 9, and 357 mag are all basically the same...

6) Doesn't know if a taurus is a good gun at all, as he'd never heard of 'em apparently until that exact moment.

7) The upward vents on the end of the muzzle of the .357 magnum revolver (didn't catch the brand) he was holding, stop *recoil*.

It went on from there...

I just watched, and listend, nodded my head at the appropriate times, and then told her later that guy was full of mostly crap... In any case, watch out, if you visit there, walking darwin award loose on the premises...

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Dr. Dickie
December 27, 2006, 08:41 AM
I want to say, par for the couse, but really that is well below par for most of the gun stores that I have been in. Generally, they aren't totaly clueless, just a bit dishonest with their opinions (to their benefit, of course).
I usually have found two types of gun stores:

a) The old grizzled guys hang-out or C&R. This is often an old hardware store that has sold guns (mainly hunting) since the 30-40 Krag was NIB.
There are usually several old guys hanging out shooting the breeze, and you are just some young punk (50 years old) bothering them. Whatever it is, they made it much better 50 years ago, but if you bother them long enoug they will sell you this POS for a price.

b) Used car salesman or P+. This has young bucks behind the counter--20-30 years old. EVERYONE carries openly on their side and is more knowledgeable about firearms, SF tactics, sniper tactics, and mall ninja tactics than JMB, Carlos Hathcock, Bill Wilson, and Audie Leon Murphy combined. There is only one gun that ANYONE who is in the know would carry (it just happens to be the one that has the most mark-up this week) and they are focused on you like white on rice right up until the point that they figure you are not going to buy their recommendation, then they are gone.

Not all the stores that I have been in are solidly in one camp or the other (but quite a few are). You may be forcing me to come up with a new category (NIB prehaps, for so new as to be clueless).

PennsyPlinker
December 27, 2006, 09:34 AM
You know, I read the original post, and the first reply, and it now sheds some light on some of the attitudes I got in another thread regarding my high opinion of my local gun store. I do not doubt for a moment that the things described happened. I have seen similar stupidity in [insert store name here].

But, I have to say, I think I am truly blessed. Not more than six miles from my home is a small gun store run by a full time gunsmith. All the guys who work there are friendly, knowledgeable, and willing to take the time to answer questions, look stuff up, or just waste a little time and hot air with the folks who come in and out. They don't care how many different guns I want to look at, and they all know how to handle them properly. They don't ignore people or make them feel like the customer is somehow inferior. It is the kind of place where I can spend up to half an hour just buying a box of ammunition because people are welcomed in and made to feel at home.

Between home and the gun shop is the range. It is not unusual to pick up a gun and a couple of boxes of ammo, shoot it up, and return to the shop to discuss results, ask questions, etc. I hope things stay this way for a long time. :D

Indy_Guy_77
December 27, 2006, 09:53 AM
mrcpu...

I think you should write your above post in letter format and then either mail it or email copies to the store manager and the firearms manager.

Probably wouldn't do MUCH good, though, for I suspect that the 'suspect' in question was seasonal help to get through the big holiday rush.

The safety related points, though, NEED to be addressed!

-J-

308win
December 27, 2006, 09:55 AM
You should go to Aumillers in Westerville, OH sometime. He knows his guns and expects you to know yours or you aren't getting the time of day. At least that has been my experience the couple of times I have been there. If you can get him to open up he is a wealth of knowledge; just not too sharing with it.

Monkeybear
December 27, 2006, 10:25 AM
Im off to Gander Mt to buy a Gun today, gonna be a great morning.

Why do I go to Gander instead of the 3 privately owned stores that are closer to me? Because I dont like being treated like crap.

El Tejon
December 27, 2006, 10:56 AM
What is a "Blackbird"?:confused:

Google sez it is a hardware store in Medford, Oregon. A hardware store that still sells guns? Very cool!:D

shootergirl88
December 27, 2006, 11:06 AM
Ugh. Kids like that are the reason customers assume that anyone under 50 doesn't know anything about guns, making life just a little bit harder for the rest of us. :fire:

bender
December 27, 2006, 11:45 AM
I'm trying to visualize how to work a slide with your elbows :confused:

I don't think I'd go there again, or at least I would want someone else waiting on me.

Monkeybear
December 27, 2006, 12:01 PM
I'm trying to visualize how to work a slide with your elbows

I think its like this, never done but Ive seen it. Stupid thing to do.

Make a fist with your left hand, now put the top of the fist with your index and thumb on your chest. Hold the firearm in your right hand and hold it sideways, so the eject port is facing up. Press the slide against your forearm with the muzzle at your elbow. Now push so that the slide digs into your forearm and is held while your look into the port to see if there is a round inside it.

Like I said really really stupid move but some people think its cool.

Henry Bowman
December 27, 2006, 12:08 PM
Works the slide by pushing on the front of the slide [while] his elbows and various body parts [are] in front of the muzzle.I think that this is another way of saying what he meant.

MD_Willington
December 27, 2006, 12:24 PM
I can see for the most part why "Mom & Pop" guns stores go out of business... This week I went to buy some 100 round blasting packs, the dealer said he will not sell it because of liability etcetera etcetera... fine enough, went just down the street and bought 300 rounds of WWWB.. it goes bang every time for me.

Another place will only recommend a Springfield 1911, though he is an avid shooter & shoots IDPA and has never heard of any sane individual who has a Norinco 1911 modified for for such things, and that Norincos are made out of pot metal like a Hi Point...

One guy would not recommend about half the pistols he had on display, he only displayed them because the boss told him to.


For the most part I find them to be self defeating bovine excrement slingers... When they go under they have no one to blame but themselves...

JohnL2
December 27, 2006, 01:00 PM
Geez, I guess I can count myself lucky. The gunstores I go to are pretty good. The guys know their stuff and won't give you the hard sell.
No military wannabe types or some weirdo wearing camo pants and a 9/11 t-shirt with a bald eagle on it.
Just guys coming in and mostly browsing. Some guys checking in on their guns that is having work done on it.
The only strange experience was actually at a chain sporting goods store. The department worker seemed actually shocked that I was interesting in buying a firearm. He nervously thumbed through his catalog book trying to find the gun I was interested in. Couldn't find it so he called over a younger assistant and he found it in the book. Got the same demeanor from him too. He only relaxed when I asked if it was cheaper at that particular store.
Almost like, I wasn't going on a mass murder spree. Actually interested in legitimate firearms use. :rolleyes:
Chain stores are hit or miss when it comes to good service.

nplant
December 27, 2006, 01:03 PM
Sometimes within the same shop you get a mixed bag. One of my favorite gun shops has a great owner/manager (willing to help, friendly unless extremely busy, knowledgable for the most part, etc.) but his son was (haven't allowed him to "help" me in quite a while) is a complete waste of oxygen. He told me that the only gun he would carry is a Kimber Ultra II or variant. When asked when he had carried, his reply was, "Uh, well, I meant if I could carry."

Other shops are more friendly, so even though I like spending what little money I have there, I usually go to a different family owned store that has consistently displayed professionalism, courtesy, and a high degree of product-knowledge. It cuts my risk of wasting my time.

Library Guy
December 27, 2006, 02:36 PM
The last time I stopped by the the Village Idiot Gunshop, I asked to handle one of the Ruger NewVaqueros. The kid behind the counter pulled it out and then had a complete brain freeze…

He knew he should open the action-
He had no idea how to do so.

Another time at another shop, a sales person noticed me cringing behind a large progressive reloader. I said, “I’m waiting for them to stop pointing that rifle at me.” Over at the counter was a bunch of guys sighting an AR at everything in the shop and the salesman with them was doing nothing to discourage them.

It’s these shop owners the local TV reporters always go to for a sound bite about the right to keep and bear arms…

Father Knows Best
December 27, 2006, 02:49 PM
There are good and bad gun stores out there. When I lived in Memphis, I didn't like going to gun stores, because there weren't any good ones. The only one in town with any selection was Guns & Ammo, but the staff was so arrogant and rude it was commonly known among my shooting buddies as "Guns & A-holes." I can't really blame them, though. The store was in a bad part of town, and was quite often occupied by window shoppers who knew nothing about guns, probably couldn't afford them or legally buy them, and were only interested in the biggest, baddest thing they'd seen in a movie or rap video. A steady dose of that kind of clientele probably turns anyone into an arse pretty quickly.

On the other end of the spectrum is my new favorite store in the whole wide world -- The Gun Stop in Minnetonka, Minnesota. Larry and Howard are plain, down-to-earth guys who favor flannel and sweatshirts. They have an incredible selection, from new guns to antiques, and from cheapy milsurps to pre-64 Winchester model 70s (several to choose from!). Want an AK? Take your pick of a cheap Romanian, or a Norinco, or even a milled Arsenal underfolder. Always wanted a Steyr AUG? There's one on the rack. And if they don't have it, they'll be happy to get it. They've ordered new guns for me without so much as asking for a deposit, or even my name. I said I was interested, they made a call to see if it was available, and said to come back for it in a few days.

Even better is the fact that they share space with the best reloading shop I have ever seen. Whether you need presses, powder, primers, bullets, brass, dies, manuals, Dillon conversions or even just some advice, they've got it. It sure beats paying HazMat and shipping charges, too.

LkWinnipesaukee
December 27, 2006, 03:45 PM
Never had any strange gun shop visits. Although someone once gave me a funny look for opening a bottle of #9 and smelling it....

TarpleyG
December 27, 2006, 04:28 PM
Norincos are made out of pot metal like a Hi Point...
Guess he never had to file the slide on one then 'cause they are HARD...I'm here to tell you.

Greg

Zero_DgZ
December 27, 2006, 04:56 PM
Geez, I must be in the shocking minority. I go to my local gun store and the guys there are middle aged (there are some geezers, but they're cool), knowledgeable, not full of opinions (bogus or otherwise), and if they do give you an opinion they do it in a non-jerkish manner and never force one on you, only if you ask.

They stock everything from ancient hunting rifles and front-stuffers to the latest whiz-bang Glock, H&K, or Sig. And if they don't have it they'll get it for you without any lip.

There's a dog that lives there, and he's cool, too.

romma
December 27, 2006, 04:58 PM
I was helping my girlfriend pick out a revolver (that she decided she didn't want) a couple of years ago, and the clerk was showing me the gun, and I was telling her pros/cons and the clerk accusingly asked "who has the permit"? I said we both do! He got a lot nicer after that. I guess he was convinced we were straw purchasing. That is one of my goofy stories.

carterbeauford
December 27, 2006, 05:04 PM
Try my litmus test when selecting a gunstore: say something so obscure or stupid only someone relatively in knowledgeable firearms can call you on. If they call you on it, do business with them. If they agree, don't.

I'm looking for one of those new SKS rifles in 5.7x28, can you get one?

Uh, SKS rifles are chambered in 7.62x39, don't have any but I do have a nice Saiga = buy from

Uh, let me check = leave

Even if you don't do this, it should be clear who you are dealing with relatively early into the conversation. I will not deal with anyone I cannot have a good, reasonably intelligent conversation about firearms with. You'd think people who deal with firearms all day would have a clue but this is not always the case. I am far from an expert, but it is not my job to educate you on the product you are selling me.

My local class three shop is owned by and frequented by people who I would refer to as experts. Not uncommon to run into AK collectors who know their stuff there.

MD_Willington
December 27, 2006, 05:15 PM
The most helpfull people I have run across are actually the employees in Tri-State outfitters and the Big 5 in my area... medium size retail chains. :confused:

Zoogster
December 27, 2006, 05:31 PM
carterbeauford Try my litmus test when selecting a gunstore: say something so obscure or stupid only someone relatively in knowledgeable firearms can call you on. If they call you on it, do business with them. If they agree, don't.

I'm looking for one of those new SKS rifles in 5.7x28, can you get one?

Uh, SKS rifles are chambered in 7.62x39, don't have any but I do have a nice Saiga = buy from

Uh, let me check = leave


Some of the most knowledgable people will go along with whatever BS you are feeding them and may even be giving you the benefit of the doubt perhaps that someone somewhere may be offering a new chambering for something even though they are pretty sure your clueless. Assuming they have no idea what they are doing because they let you ramble on about something incorrect and then go to verify it before telling you that your clueless is a pretty bad litmus test.

Part of staying competent in a field is not assuming you know everything even if you know more than most, because some people somewhere are coming out with new products and modifications to existing products. Some of them never leave the developmental stage, others might be a common occurance sometime in the near future. Assuming you know it all means you just stopped learning and will soon be outdated.

El Tejon
December 27, 2006, 05:34 PM
Zoogster, thank was exactly my MO when I sold guns. Nod at the moronic question and then re-direct to what we had.

Captain Tactical: "I'm looking for the new ceramic Glock 7."
El Tejon: "Don't have a Glock 7, but how about a Glock 17, here let me show you."

:)

jfinet
December 27, 2006, 05:36 PM
Try The Good Guys in Medford and Fox in Grants Pass ... slightly more knowledgable ... reasonable folks to deal with ... just my experience ... John

carterbeauford
December 27, 2006, 05:40 PM
Assuming they have no idea what they are doing because they let you ramble on about something incorrect and then go to verify it before telling you that your clueless is a pretty bad litmus test.

May or may not work for you, worked for me. I buy from one dealer almost exclusively anyhow...

mrcpu
December 27, 2006, 06:15 PM
Good Guys has warmed up remarkably too me. Seemed kind of stand-offish when I went in there the first time, but it seemed like once I started riffling through the 1911 section, and had a couple intelligent questions to ask, they thawed out a bit.

I bought my 457 from them, and lost the key somehow to the lock, and the guy took my gun home, found a matching key from his stash, gave me a brand new lock with 2 keys, and kept mine for his stuff, so he could have fewer keys on his ring.

Can't complain about that.

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