You know, I love my Stag but, I can't stand cleaning it.


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flip180
December 27, 2006, 11:42 PM
I just got done cleaning my Stag AR after fireing it for the first time this last week end. It took me longer to clean it than it did to shoot it and, I'd still be doing push ups if my old team leader got a hold of it.

Flip.

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10-Ring
December 27, 2006, 11:57 PM
I look at cleaning as a necessary evil :evil: If I don't clean it after using it, it just won't shoot the same the next time out. I've learned to look at it as a Zen thing :cool:

flip180
December 28, 2006, 12:13 AM
My M1A spoiled me. I just lock the action back, spray it down, wipe it clean and clean the bore. I'm done in twenty minutes. My AR took an hour and fifteen minutes to clean.

Flip.

Dave R
December 28, 2006, 01:45 AM
Holy cow. Does it take MOST AR owners an hour to clean 'em?

I won't even tell you how long I spend cleaning my AK, for fear of starting another chapter in the endless debate.

swingset
December 28, 2006, 02:11 AM
Only takes me about 15 minutes to thoroughly clean an AR.

Open up, disassemble. Spray innards down with brake cleaner, hit it with the chamber brush, swab out the goo. Hit the barrel with a brush, follow with a couple patches, bore snake with some CLP, done.

Disassemble bolt, clean all the areas with some solvent, spray clean, lube, reassemble.

Whala. I only clean every 800-1000 rounds, and it always works. I think most people over clean. Not that big of a deal, unless you're in combat.

CDignition
December 28, 2006, 02:14 AM
Just ****** it out,(Upper) clean the bore (a pull thru gun snake works fine)..and call it good...the lower doesent need anything, just do the upper...leave the bolt, unless it bugs u, then just ****** it off with gun scrubber and call it good..;)

dmftoy1
December 28, 2006, 08:46 AM
Just curious . .how long did you spend cleaning it? Mine takes me probably 30-35 minutes, but most of that is just "waiting" for the solvent to clean out any copper deposits in the bore before re-oiling it to put away. I'd say it takes me 5 minutes tops to clean the bolt and chamber, maybe 2 minutes on the upper.

I'm just curious where you're spending your time.

djyox
December 28, 2006, 08:49 AM
Maybe I should look into getting one of these guns. I love cleaning and just puttin taking my time and getting all the crap out..


It centers me...

1911 guy
December 28, 2006, 10:25 AM
Keep cleaning it like that and you'll wear it out before its time. CLP on patches to wipe out the upper, clean the bolt and carrier well, pull a snake through the bore (I assume chrome lined) and call it good. Put a drop of CLP on the moving parts in the lower every two or three cleanings. Won't pass an inspection, but it will run reliably and not corrode.

Sniper4Life
December 28, 2006, 10:33 AM
I look at cleaning as a necessary evil If I don't clean it after using it, it just won't shoot the same the next time out. I've learned to look at it as a Zen thing

:eek: I love cleaning guns I guess the smell of shooters choice relaxes me...

CLP on patches to wipe out the upper, clean the bolt and carrier well, pull a snake through the bore (I assume chrome lined) and call it good. Put a drop of CLP on the moving parts in the lower every two or three cleanings. Won't pass an inspection, but it will run reliably and not corrode


+1 on that:D

Gary G23
December 28, 2006, 10:36 AM
For me one of the reasons I get chrome lined bores is so I don't have to clean as often. Every 500rds has worked fine for me. Also a bore snake will reduce your cleaning time.

Dave Markowitz
December 28, 2006, 10:47 AM
If it takes you an hour to clean an AR-15, you're overdoing it. Contrary to popular myth, and AR-15 does not need to be spotless to function properly.

One tip I haven't seen mentioned is to run a few patches or a wet bore brush through the barrel while it's still warm, then let it soak on your drive home. This lets the solvent do most of the work for you and saves a lot of elbow grease.

The other thing is to not use only CLP for cleaning. It's a good lubricant and rust preventer but a mediocre cleaner. Good old Hoppe's No.9 will do a much better job of cleaning, with less elbow grease, than CLP will.

swampgator
December 28, 2006, 12:19 PM
The other thing is to not use only CLP for cleaning. It's a good lubricant and rust preventer but a mediocre cleaner.

I remember my NCOs always telling me that CLP continued to break down the carbon even after cleaning. That's why we would end cleaning and cleaning and cleaning. Nothing more depressing at 5 pm on a Friday than seeing that white patch come out with a speck of green. "Get back on it!"

aguyindallas
December 28, 2006, 12:25 PM
Hoppes #9 all the way. When I am done with my guns, I run a bore snake down the pipe. When I get to the house (and make the proper time for cleaning), I do wet patch, bore brush a couple storkes through, wet patch (as many as need) then a dry patch. Then a ligtly oiled patch to finish off for storage.

For Glocks, I bore snake..then clean with the same routine, except I dont usually do the light oil patch at the end of my routine.

rbernie
December 28, 2006, 12:41 PM
1911 Guy pretty much describes my routine.

Wipe down the spooge from the bolt/carrier, wipe out the inside of the upper receiver, run a bore snake down the barrel a couple of times, put a a squirt of CLP on the bolt, and smear CLP on the bearing surfaces of the carrier and buffer. Every couple/three thousand rounds or every six months, whichever comes first, I'll use some Butch's on the bore.

Takes me five minutes, tops, and seems to work.

flip180
December 28, 2006, 12:49 PM
I went to bed and this thread took off. I was held to extreamly high standards in the Army when it came to weapons maintanence. I feel I have to have Q-tips come out clean before moving on.

Flip.

Warbow
December 28, 2006, 03:48 PM
I remember seeing one of those WWII comics that the US Army distributed to soldiers and it read, "Clean, not sterile!" :) I couldn't find it with Google...

possum
December 28, 2006, 04:02 PM
i can have my service weapon, or personal ar combat ready in 15-20 minutes, if it needed to be but generally with my weapos i get them q-tip clean. including my ar, handguns etc.

Detritus
December 28, 2006, 06:14 PM
went to bed and this thread took off. I was held to extreamly high standards in the Army when it came to weapons maintanence. I feel I have to have Q-tips come out clean before moving on.


i used to be like that.... i advise you to try to gently break that pattern, your enjoyment of your AR will go up and the "service life" of your rifle's barrel will be extended if you do.

remember there are three ways, Right way, wrong way and the Army way!

"the Army way" is to put it bluntly OVER cleaning, and can be detrimental to the life of your barrel. The Army Way of cleaning was decided on b/c "clean it till the patch comes out white" was the only straightforward way to consistently train recruits of varying exposure to firearms, and varying concepts of what "looks clean", and have a concrete standard that all can see and work to acheaive. plus it's a time killer and another item on the list of things to harrass the recruit over and thus continues the "psychological" portion of the training. just like making you fold your socks and underwear in a regulation manner.

Most barrel wear to civilian arms (and a majority in the military too i'd guess) occurs during cleaning, not through actual firing of the weapon. the military knows that they're trading barrel life for a consistent level of weapon maintainence (between an OCD person like me and the guy who sees daylight through the bore and thinks "clean") , but unlike the rest of us they can buy as many new barrels as they need.

as for how long it takes me to clean an AR, and i am a rather detail oriented person, 20-45 minutes average depending on how much shooting i did and how clean burning the powder was. Unless you go through 1K rds or more in a session, as long as you're using quality clean buring ammo, spending over an hour cleaning an AR is wasteful of your time.

RockyMtnTactical
December 28, 2006, 11:19 PM
I love cleaning my guns.

As for the AR15 though, I can clean mine in about 10 minutes each.

wanderinwalker
December 28, 2006, 11:27 PM
My match rifle gets about 30-40 minutes, in front of a good TV show.

I lock the rifle onto the cleaning stand, pop the rear pin, tilt the recievers, pop in bore guide (way, way useful tool BTW), run copper solvent down bore. If I'm ambitious, I plug away on the bore for a few patches until they come out ungreen. If lacking will power, I clean bolt while solvent soaks barrel. Patch barrel, swab chamber, wipe gorp off of reciever internals, lube and done.

I break it down more thoroughly every couple of hundred rounds, when I feel an overwhelming need. Otherwise, the above is enough to, and doesn't over-do it so it returns to zero quickly on the next outing.

ny32182
December 28, 2006, 11:30 PM
Getting all the functional areas clean should take 10-15 minutes tops. By functional areas, I mean:

1) The chrome lined cavity inside the carrier where the bolt rides (gas blows into this area).
2) Behind the locking lugs in the barrel extension (this area should be free of debris to ensure the locking lugs have proper room to rotate)
3) Chamber/bore (of course)

You can detail-clean the rest of your rifle if you want to. I often do so just because I like cleaning my guns. You won't be adding functional reliability by doing so.

possum
December 28, 2006, 11:57 PM
the worst memories i have of cleanning weapons is in the army. getting them Army clean while sitting on a cold cement floor for hours in the company ao after we had been in the field for a few weeks that sucks. i am glad that i have a little better st up at home!:)

flip180
December 29, 2006, 12:15 AM
Oh, I know! I remember having to get all of the mission essential gear turned in first such as NODS and the radios. Then the next two to four hours went to weapons maintenance. Buy the time that was done, it was easily 2300 hours and first call the next morning was set back to 0900. Once we turned in our weapons and were released, we would head out to Denny's and chow.

Flip.

kymarkh
December 29, 2006, 12:12 PM
I didn't mind weapons maintenance so much while I was in, probably because we could go to our own bunks and crank up 80's heavy metal while we did it - that and I got to check my squads weapons and gig them on every bit of dirt I could find with dental picks and q-tips! Those were the days.

Hehe

swampgator
December 29, 2006, 07:51 PM
Then the next two to four hours went to weapons maintenance. Buy the time that was done, it was easily 2300 hours

I remember my first "field trip" way back in basic. I was colder than this Florida boy had ever been. About 2 weeks outside with the temps down in the low teens. Chow was MREs and merrimac (sp?) cans.

We finally get back to the company training area and have hours of maintenance and weapons cleaning. The only positive thing on our minds while sitting on that cold concrete was "Hey we get hot chow tonight!"

Finally at about 1730 hours they order us to file past and pick up an MRE. I think we were finally released for lights out somewhere around midnight. Sucks to be you GI!

Good times!

ocabj
December 29, 2006, 08:45 PM
My NM service rifle ARs get cleaned in about 30 minutes. Clean bore with patches, brush, and patches again soaked in Montana Xtreme. During the bore cleaning, clean out bolt channel, lugs, and chamber.

Also, during bore cleaning, remove bolt from bolt carrier and wipe down bolt, carrier, firing pin, etc. If it's my competition gun, I'll clean the bolt parts with MPro7. Wipe down with oiled rag and lube with Militec. If it's just my practice rifle, I just wipe down the bolt parts and lube with Militec. Every few range sessions, I'll do a thorough bolt cleaning on the practice rifle.

That's about it.

No, I don't use CLP on competition ARs. I come from the no Teflon school of thought for bore cleaning, so nix on CLP in the bore (plus, CLP doesn't do anything to copper -- as little as my match barrels copper foul, I still want copper solvent). As far as for the action, I've had bad luck with CLP jamming my 16" ARs after it gums up in the bolt (carbon fouling and dust). Militec all the way for lubrication.

MisterPX
December 30, 2006, 01:10 PM
If you don't want to clean it, don't. Just add lube as neccesary, and it'll keep running fine.

Zeke Menuar
December 30, 2006, 01:20 PM
Brake Cleaner + Wipeout + football

Takes about an hour. No scrubbing or work.

ZM

mc223
December 30, 2006, 06:50 PM
The M-16 that was issued to me in basic training had been through, who knows how many training cycles. and cleanings.It was'nt worn out from the cleanings.
I pull the bolt, run a patch of Hoppes Elite down the bore to soak while the bolt is being disassembled and cleaned, lubed ( CLP ) and reassembled.
I then aggressively brush the bore with a nylon brush and patch till clean.
15 Minutes total.
If some one wants to clean for an hour and a half or a week who cares, after all it's thier rifle.

toecutter
December 31, 2006, 05:06 AM
Ok. I have a natural hatred of CLP. I spend most of my time in the desert. CLP is the worst thing to ever happen to the US soldier.

Open it up, wipe most of the parts down with hoppes #9 The only pain is the gas tube and the area behind the chamber where the locking lugs are. Use a chamber brush with some hoppes to loosen up any debris, then either use the "chamber maid" those wipes designed to fit inside the locking lugs, or wipe it out with a patch wrapped around a brush. Clean out the gas tube with really long pipe cleaners soaked in hoppes. I usually just run my bore snake through the bore.

When cleaning the bolt/carrier assembly, dissassemble it, wipe down all parts with hoppes, then wipe clean. Avoid lubricating inside the carrier, as any lubricant in here will be flashed into carbon rather quickly and will just have to be removed later. If you are obsessive about lubrication, use a little bit of high temperature moly or lithium grease just on the area in front of the pressure rings (that little high spot). For the rest of it, wipe it out with hoppes, and then wipe with a clean rag, all you want is a very very TINY amount of surface oil to prevent corrosion NOTHING ELSE!

Wipe the bolt down with hoppes, brake cleaner works, but you must put some oil back on it afterwards otherwise it will rust. Clean out the firing pin well with a pipe cleaner soaked in hoppes, then wipe clean with another pipe cleaner (once again, minimize oil in here, otherwise crud will build up). Brush the bolt face with a plastic tooth brush (or one of the ones that comes in the M16 cleaning kit).

Wipe the firing pin down with hoppes, then wipe clean. Same should be done for the retaining pin, and cam pin.

Wipe carrier down with hoppes, then wipe clean. I use just a tiny tiny bit of lithium grease on the bearing surfaces (sides of the key, and two rails on bottom of carrier). Be sure to get a large rag, or a shotgun mop and wipe out the upper reciever, then wipe clean. (just hosing it out with brake cleaner works, as this is an aluminum part which won't corrode. Just be sure to put a drop of oil (or hoppes) on the forward assist.

This should take 15 minutes, maybe an hour if you dissassemble and soak the parts. For the most part, I only clean every other time I go shooting, or sometimes ever other other time. The AR-15 is a pretty stable platform and doesn't require as much cleaning as some people say it does. The big problem I have found is that when you over-lubricate the lubricant attracts dirt and grit which quickly foul up the gun resulting in all kinds of problems.

The reason I recommend hoppes is it meets the definition of a cleaner/lubricant/protectant, however the stuff they sell as CLP is garbage. Hoppes will dry after a fairly short period of time, leaving a thin coat of lubricant/protectant behind. Once dried it won't pick up dirt, the CLP stuff perpetually attracts dirt, and rarely dries. It is also hard to apply in small amounts often leading to over-lubrication.

Another thing to avoid is using dental tools to pick out carbon build ups. Always use toothpicks. Toothpicks being made of crappy wood will never mar your finish, scratch anything, or cause wear.

If you really don't like cleaning, why don't you just get a bore snake, and dip it in some hoppes, and run it through a few times after every shooting session, and not worry about cleaning it until it starts having problems. Find out how long that interval is. Back when I shot competitively, the only reason to clean a gun was because it wasn't holding group or wasn't functioning properly. It usually worked out to one good cleaning per year.

Lebben-B
December 31, 2006, 10:23 AM
the worst memories i have of cleanning weapons is in the army. getting them Army clean while sitting on a cold cement floor for hours in the company ao after we had been in the field for a few weeks that sucks.
We senior NCOs call that a character building exercise. :neener:

For peacetime training cycles, I wasn't that picky when it came to weapons maint, EXCEPT when it came to DRF-1 prep. Prior to assuming The One, we had to go through an Operational Readiness Survey (ORS). All weapons and equipment were inspected by Division and they had to be spotless or the unit failed ORS and was declared incapable of assuming the mission. In all my time in Division I only saw that happen once. The CO/1SG were relieved over it, BTW.

While we were deployed, I was way beyond anal when it came to weapons maint. As a previous poster pointed out, CLP with sand and dust really wreck a weapon. We generally used CLP to clean and Militec, Tuff-Glide, or Strike Hold to lube.

For my personal ARs I use Hoppes to clean and Militec to lube.

Mike

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