Anyone have a 1911 with a treatment = tennifer?


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jlh26oo
December 28, 2006, 07:40 AM
I see "black ion", "armory coat", etc but thinking these are more along the lines of finishes than the fool proof treatment I am now spoiled to.

I know XD has something with a different trade name which is a chemical equivalent to tennifer... are they applying it to any of their 1911's?

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tango3065
December 28, 2006, 10:02 AM
Tennifer is colorless and applied before the finish, tennifer goes into the metal making it hard and virtually rust proof and tennifer cannot be done in the USA because of pollution laws. The XD is not tennifer and does not get close to equaling tennifer and the only gun I know that has it is the Glock, but there might be other guns made in foreign countries that has it.

dhoomonyou
December 28, 2006, 10:20 AM
Correct me if im mistaken, BUT
some company has a "MELONITE" (sp?) coating that is supposed to be Tennifer like.

BryanP
December 28, 2006, 10:24 AM
Here's the entry from Wikipedia. Anyone care to corroborate or dispute?


Tenifer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Tenifer is a trademarked name for the end result of a chemical bath nitriding process that embeds nitrogen into an iron-containing alloy to create a corrosion-resistant finish that is a dull grey in color and extremely hard. The generic term for this type of process is carbonitriding. Other trade names for carbonitriding include Melonite, Sursulf, Arcor, Tufftride, and Koline.

[edit] Users of the process

* SAAB of Sweden once used the Tenifer process to treat its crankshafts and camshafts. [citation needed]

* Glock, an Austrian firearms manufacturer, utilizes this process to protect the slides of the pistols they manufacture. The Tenifer finish on a Glock is the third and final hardening process. It is 0.05 millimeters thick and produces a patented 64 Rockwell C (diamond cone) hardness rating via a 500 °C nitride bath. The final matte, non-glare finish meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. After the Tenifer process, a black Parkerized finish is applied and the slide is protected even if the finish were to wear off. Several other pistols also use this process including the Walther P99 and Steyr M/S series.

The-Fly
December 28, 2006, 11:34 AM
My understanding is that the XD's made in 2006 and beyond do have a tennifer like treatment applied to them.

Augustus Andras
December 28, 2006, 11:36 AM
Correct me if im mistaken, BUT some company has a "MELONITE"
S&W

XDKingslayer
December 28, 2006, 11:37 AM
The XD is not tennifer and does not get close to equaling tennifer and the only gun I know that has it is the Glock, but there might be other guns made in foreign countries that has it.


I've said it 1000 times...

You're absolutely wrong. Tennifer and Melonite (the XD coating) are the same finish. Period.

ugaarguy
December 28, 2006, 01:32 PM
As others have noted, Melonite is the same thing as Tenifer and is used by many other gun makers. On a factory 1911 SiGArms offers the GSR line in their Nitron finish, which is another black finish over a nitride process like Tenifer, and Melonite. Aftermarket you could go with something like electroless nickel, or Robar's incredible NP3.

Jim Watson
December 28, 2006, 02:16 PM
It is possible to have a gun aftermarket Melonite hardened/finished.
http://www.coalcreekarmory.com/finishing.php

This is an Internet referral only, not a recommendation, I have NOT done business with Coal Creek.

mete
December 28, 2006, 04:00 PM
Tennifer is a gas carbonitriding process that adds nitrogen and carbon to the steel.There are additional processes used that make it very corrosion resistant.

tango3065
December 28, 2006, 09:31 PM
As others have noted, Melonite is the same thing as Tenifer and is used by many other gun makers


Well they can't be the exact same process becuase melonite can be done in USA where Tennifer cannot due to EPA standards.:confused:

Jim Watson
December 28, 2006, 11:31 PM
That will be news to the vendors of the process who think that they sell the same stuff under the names of Tenifer, Melonite, and Tufftride in different countires.

http://durferrit.de/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte.htm

"To meet the growing needs with regard to wear and corrosion resistance, as well as the enhancement of the fatigue strength, great efforts were devoted to the development and launching of the TENIFERŽ process, which is also known worldwide under the trade names of TUFFTRIDEŽ and MELONITEŽ. This nitrocarburizing process has undergone continuous development with regard to its regenerability and ecology, and from year-to-year the number of applications is increasing on all 5 continents."

and in a paper by the chemists involved...

"The TUFFTRIDE QPQ process is known in English-speaking and Asian countries under that name, inEurope and German-speaking countries as TENIFER QPQ and in the USA as MELONITE QPQ. TUFFTRIDEŽ,TENIFERŽ and MELONITEŽare registered trademarks ofDurferrit GmbH."

tango3065
December 29, 2006, 12:21 AM
That will be news to the vendors of the process who think that they sell the same stuff under the names of Tenifer, Melonite, and Tufftride in different countires.


Tennifer can’t be done in the U.S. because the European process uses Arsenic acids which is prohibited in the U.S. under EPA guide lines. The other companys can use different acids and change the name but it will not be the actual Tenifer process. But then again again they do not claim it to be they call it something else, but I am sure they do know what they are doing.




Some Tenifer data I have been researching



"""""Surface hardening of steel and iron (to improve wear resistance) can be done by either allowing the surface of metals to react with either Nitrogen (nitriding), Carbon (carburizing), Boron (boriding), etc. TENIFER is termed for a chemical bath nitriding process whereby nitrogen is chemically released and introduced into the surface at a suitable high temperature to allow the chemical process to take place.

Using the liquid bath techniques, the temperature requires to activate the reaction is about 550 to 580 Celsius. The bath is performed in a molten, nitrogen-bearing liquid containing either cyanides or cyanates. """""



The process can be produced in the US but the cyanides or cyanates have to be replaced with a diffrent chemical for the chemical bath nitrading treatment which can give Tenifer like results, but it won't actually be or be called Tenifer and unless EPA cuts down on restrictions there will never be a USA company using cynides or cyanates in the USA.

jlh26oo
December 29, 2006, 02:31 AM
So we know XD's are at least similarly, if not identically treated. Is SA applying this to any of their 1911's?

Sounds like the best bet is Sig GSR:
On a factory 1911 SiGArms offers the GSR line in their Nitron finish, which is another black finish over a nitride process like Tenifer, and Melonite.
So is it your understanding only the Nitron finish gets the nitriding? Or will their SS also have the nitriding process done to it? How does that nitron wear? About as bullet-proof as the GLOCK finish? Close? SS w/something tennifer like would be incredible.

"the Revolution™ XO features SIG’s new durable XO finish designed for rugged use and is available in either XO Black or XO Stainless (shown)." Hmm, wonder if that's it?

Thanks much to all.

ugaarguy
December 29, 2006, 01:17 PM
jlh, I've no idea on how the Nitron wears. I just knew it was available on the GSR line from doing the research that lead me to choose a Revolution Carry as my next 1911. I should be picking it up in (hopefully) just over a month when I return from overseas. Once a run a few hundred rounds thru it I'll be sure to report on how it runs. It was my understanding that Nitron was a type of nitriding finish, but I'll see if I can find more specifics on Nitron vs. XO.

GARY1911A1
December 29, 2006, 02:41 PM
I believe EAA uses tennifer in their wonderfinish pistols.

Jim Watson
December 29, 2006, 03:06 PM
Hey, mastinson, you got a reference on that "arsenic acids" business?

There is nothing in company literature you or I have quoted about arsenic, and I cannot find anything about its being used in steel processing. The formulation I saw for a carbonitriding salt bath was 60% sodium cyanide and cyanate, 40% potassium cyanide and cyanate - the split between cyanide and cyanate carefully left unspecified for proprietary reasons, no doubt - and that doesn't leave any percentages for "arsenic acids."

I have seen mention of cyanide-free Tenifer baths but no description of what is in there to accomplish the same thing.

huntershooter
December 29, 2006, 07:29 PM
jlh; I just got a mod. 58 (revolver) back from Coal Creek Armory that I had their Melonite QPQ (or something) finish applied to. The revolver is a "hard use" gun at the ranch, and being "fixed sight" I wanted a finish I wouldn"t have to touch up the front sight every other week. Finish looks to be "bullet proof". CCA did a superb job, cost was quite reasonable. Speak with Anthony if you're interested. Adios.

jlh26oo
January 1, 2007, 04:24 AM
Thanks for the tips.

Apparently, S&W's melonite is an actual steel hardening "treatment", as opposed ot just a finish. Not many models have it though/

GreenFurniture
January 5, 2007, 02:29 AM
Coal Creek Armory, in Knoxville TN offers the Melonite QPQ finish.

Here are two examples:

http://thecommander.smugmug.com/photos/121116705-M.jpg

Kimber TLE-II


http://thecommander.smugmug.com/photos/120580101-M.jpg

FN Hipower, cut down to Commander size

billy396
November 23, 2009, 03:15 PM
I have a Kimber 1911 with a carry bevel and some other custom touches. The fellow that I bought it from had all the work done, including a Melonite QPQ finish. This finish has proven to be very long lasting and, so far, impossible to scratch. It's much easier to clean, and it doesn't wear like the Tenifer finish on my Glocks. Admittedly, the Glocks just get shinier, but the Melonite finish is very even and doesn't change at all.

rellascout
November 23, 2009, 03:24 PM
Nirton is nowhere near the finish that Tennifer is.

If you want a tennifer like finish melonite is the way to go.

aubie515
November 23, 2009, 07:41 PM
What is up with bringing back a 3 yr old thread?

tadeus
November 29, 2012, 09:06 PM
Here are my two guns with this kind of finish:

Fishbed77
November 30, 2012, 12:56 AM
The XD is not tennifer and does not get close to equaling tennifer and the only gun I know that has it is the Glock

Walther uses Tenifer on their P99, PPQ, and PPS pistols.

Skylerbone
November 30, 2012, 01:50 AM
Guys, this thread is nearly 6 years old.

9mmepiphany
November 30, 2012, 03:57 AM
Then I guess we'll put it back to bed

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