FAL or .308 AK, which do you prefer?


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DMK
December 28, 2006, 07:21 PM
No particular reason, just wondering which would be more popular.

I'd say these are pretty comparable price, accuracy, maintainability and reliability wise.

Feel free to discuss why you'd choose one over the other.

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Nightcrawler
December 28, 2006, 07:23 PM
Well...originally, back in 2001 when I was planning on buying my battle rifle, I looked long at the Vepr II .308.

Problem is, until FBMG came along with their Saiga .308 20-round magazines, you couldn't find standard capacity magazines for any .308 Kalashnikov rifles.

My preferance would be for the FAL still; I'm comfortable with the design, though a Tromix .308 Saiga with FBMG mags has a LOT going for it.

My DREAM .308 AK would be a VEPR II .308, with a Krebs rear sight, Ultimak Rail, barrel shortened to 17.5", and converted to take .308 Galil 25-round magazines (in this same dream I'd have a pile of these magazines, which in the real world can be had in the States for like eighty bucks a pop).

DMK
December 28, 2006, 07:27 PM
My DREAM .308 AK would be a VEPR II .308, with a Krebs rear sight, Ultimak Rail, barrel shortened to 17.5", and converted to take .308 Galil 25-round magazines But my FAL goes to 30! :D

And one heavy sonofa... it is with a loaded steel 30 round mag. :uhoh:

rbernie
December 28, 2006, 07:32 PM
The FAL has far cheaper mags, but a Saiga is about a third of the cost of a decent FAL.

I don't find the ergonomics of either to be particularly compelling. But if my AR-10 and CETMEs need company, I'd probably rather have the Saiga than the FAL.

HorseSoldier
December 28, 2006, 07:49 PM
FAL has a decent control layout for modern CQB techniques, except it shares the rock-in mag change flaw of the AK (at least to me, I guess the safety may be a reach for smaller hands). I'd take an FAL over an AK, especially if the AK loses its one selling point in the form of 7.62x39 and shares the same round as the FAL.

DMK
December 28, 2006, 09:40 PM
FAL has a decent control layoutYea, that's probably the primary reason I like the FAL better. If the AK had a charging handle on the left and an ambi safety, the decision might be a bit harder for me.

Nightcrawler
December 28, 2006, 09:43 PM
I would honestly prefer the straight-in magazine type of the G3, but the G3's combination of no last-shot-bolt-hold-open-device and a charging handle that's even more awkward if you're a lefty...I'd have to try one out, I think, before buying.

Honestly, though, sometimes I wonder if not having to rock the magazines in would reduce your chance of a fumble enough that the extra time needed to charge the G3 wouldn't make it worth it.

In "battle rifle" configuration, you couldn't sell me an AR-10 or clone. They just seem to be too hit or miss. They make excellent precision rifles, though.

wally
December 28, 2006, 10:12 PM
I prefer the FAL over the AK .308, but the AK .308 is a lot of gun for the money, but is held back by the 10 round magazines. FBMG now makes 20 rounders (I've got some, haven't had a chance to try them yet) but they are very expensive compared to FAL or L1AL mags. Even AK .308 10-round mags are about double what you can usually find L1A1 mags for. The metric FAL mags are rather cheap for the time being.

--wally.

MrDig
December 28, 2006, 10:19 PM
Truth be told I like AR10's can't explain why I just do. That being said I usually buy what fits my budget as opposed to my fantasies. So the FAL is more in reason. I like the feel and fit of the FAL more than the AK as well, but that is due to my build not a quality thing.

rbernie
December 28, 2006, 10:19 PM
I detest the G3 ergos; the charging handle location, lack of a BHO, and mag release location conspire to ensure that you cannot recharge the magazine without breaking cheekweld and dropping the weapon from your shoulder. On the good side - they just freakin' work and I can afford a CETME or two.

The FAL doesn't strike me as much better than the G3 in terms of ergos, although at least the mag release can potentially be operated with the weapon shouldered. I still would prefer the charging handle on the right side.... If I could get a FAL for the same price as a CETME, I'd probably be a lot mo' fond of the platform.

The AK ergo's are largely fixable, at least for my use. For example, I don't mind the rock/lock mag release-n-recharge motion so long as I can do it from the shoulder (which I can on the AK but have not yet mastered on the FAL). The bolt can be cycled with the weapon shouldered since the charging handle is on the right (and correct) side. The Red Star safety/selector allows me to operate the safety with my trigger finger while keeping a hold on the pistol grip. The only thing that I'd still wish for is a last shot BHO, but I can live without that since at least the charging handle is in the correct spot.

I have one Armalite AR-10, and it's been solid and 100% reliable. I detest the AR's charging handle location/flimsiness, but the safety location and mag release/drop are clearly superior to all others. If it wasn't so expensive, this would be my favorite platform by far.

stoky
December 28, 2006, 11:04 PM
Shooting .308 in an AK is like feeding prime rib to a coyote.

Nightcrawler
December 28, 2006, 11:15 PM
A PROPER G3 will have a flipper magazine release very similar to the FAL. The problem with the commercial builds is that they get rid of this for some reason. In exchange, you get a push-button type that's similar to the AR-15. Problem is, it's too far forward for a right-handed shooter to use his trigger finger to hit, so it's doubly awkward. A lefty won't have any trouble with that, any more than he'd have trouble with an AR-15. (You just grab the mag and push the button with your thumb, then pull it out.)

This problem CAN be fixed on a G3 clone, though. JLD Enterpises sells the flipper magazine parts for about twelve bucks. You just need someone to install them correctly.

HiroProX
December 28, 2006, 11:23 PM
After pondering this same quandary I stopped worrying and bought a FAL.

rbernie
December 28, 2006, 11:23 PM
Problem is, it's too far forward for a right-handed shooter to use his trigger finger to hit, so it's doubly awkward.That's a fact.

This problem CAN be fixed on a G3 clone, though. JLD Enterpises sells the flipper magazine parts for about twelve bucks. You just need someone to install them correctly.COOL - I did not know that. Thanks... :D

ny32182
December 28, 2006, 11:42 PM
FAL... 10lbs of pure 7.62x51 battle rifle. :D

-FAL was designed for the cartridge.
-Parts/mags/etc are of course much more readily available
-Stock sights aren't great on either, but still much better on the FAL.
-Bolt hold open
-Easier magazine release (better positioned mag catch on the FAL, imo).
-Better positioned selector switch on the FAL.

Grayrider
December 29, 2006, 11:43 AM
I too prefer the FAL for .308, and not just because I am working for DSA. I have had more AKs than any other rifle and love the platform, however in .308 the FAL just offers more. I won't rehash what was said above in favor of the FAL, simply will say I agree to all of the above. Further the FAL is softer shooting in .308 than an AK due to the gas system design. I had a Galil in .308 years ago and while utterly reliable, it was more of a bear to shoot than a good FAL. Mind you I have fired chop-job FALs that kicked like a mule because someone did not build them right and they would not run on any reasonable gas setting. However, a properly built rifle runs .308 more like an AK shooting 7.62x39. A quality FAL should be more accurate than a Saiga. Veprs are pretty accurate in my experience, so perhaps could match a FAL. I have not owned one in .308, but my 7.62 and 5.56 Veprs were quite accurate for AKs.

The ergos of a FAL should be better for a right hander as well, although I shoot left handed so enjoy the control arrangement on the AK. I have had no trouble running the FAL, just have to remove my hand from the pistol grip for certain functions that I don't with an AK. I am working at doing mag releases using the replacement magazine to drop the one that is in the gun, so no issue there with getting to the catch.

:D

John

MechAg94
December 29, 2006, 01:43 PM
If someone wants a .308 rifle and ammo and mags, the AK plus ammo/mags could be had for less than the price of the new FAL. That is a plus right there.

What is the accuracy difference? Can anyone say if the FAL is more or less accurate?

DMK
December 29, 2006, 02:17 PM
Wow, not much love for the .308 AK! I wouldn't have thought the voting would be so lopsided.

Grayrider, I'm envious of your job! Especially since you guys make ARs now too. If I worked there, they'd just pay me in FALs and I'd bum meals off my friends. :D

Medusa
December 29, 2006, 04:50 PM
FAL, I do like the looks of Green&Black FAL (http://www.dsarms.com/images/odgreen.jpg) and FAL Carbine for urban encounters (http://www.dsarms.com/images/urbanmirage.jpg)

toemag
December 29, 2006, 06:16 PM
I prefer the FAL, learnt to shoot the L1A1 while I was serving Queen & country many moon's ago. I have carried them all over the world in alsort's of place's, knocked tgt's down at 600 meter's with them.

The AK's are okay, they just aint what I'd want to carry when the chip's were down ( if I had a choice).

Toe

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