PTR-91 Rifles


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Nightcrawler
December 29, 2006, 12:54 AM
Who has a PTR-91 rifle of any sort?

Admittedly, I've never really looked at a G3 clone before, not seriously, anyways. But...magazines for 'em are dirt cheap, and if nothing else, it's a proven design.

Anybody have the flipper magazine release installed? JLD used to sell the parts for it for about twelve dollars, if I recall.

How do they handle, how do they shoot? Anybody had any trouble with a recent production one? Will they eat steel-cased ammo? Anybody scope theirs?

Just curious, thanks.

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MechAg94
December 29, 2006, 01:32 AM
No problems of any sort with reliability.
Accuracy is good. Haven't tried longer ranges at all yet.
Scoping is easy with clamp on mounts. I am working on getting a better scope.
Recoil is hard. I am working on getting a stock extension/pad for mine.
All I have shot so far is the south african surplus. Never tried steel case .308 in any rifle.
Didn't know there was another mag release.
I think someone said another company bought JLD.

trbon8r
December 29, 2006, 09:00 AM
I just took my PTR out for its first range trip this week. The rifle functioned 100% and was pretty accurate, despite having one of the most horrendous triggers I've ever had the displeasure to experience. The good news is, I understand the trigger can be fixed for around 40 bucks.

The bad news is I've got a problem with the rear sight. The rifle shoots 3 inches right at 100 yards and I've got the rear sight adjusted over as far as it will go. I need to call PTR 91 and find out what to do to fix the problem. The worst part is I'm not the original owner, so I guess the repair cost will come out of my pocket.

Father Knows Best
December 29, 2006, 09:26 AM
I have one of the first PTR-91's (serial number 10xx), with the early polygonal rifling. I understand that some time after mine was made, JLD Enterprises switched to using cut-rifled barrels. I don't know whether that made a difference in accuracy, but mine is a tack driver.

Also, as someone mentioned above, JLD Enterprises was sold in the last year, and the company was renamed PTR-91k, Inc. I have no idea what the sale of the company will mean in terms of product quality, but I've heard nothing to indicate it would be a cause for concern.

In general, the PTR-91 is an excellent rifle. It is built using HK-licensed tooling that was originally used in Portugal to make G3 rifles for the Portuguese military. The triggers are indeed terrible, as are original G3 triggers. When I got mine, it was heavy and creepy -- like dragging a sleg over a gravel bar. It was so heavy, in fact, that it maxed out my trigger pull gauge (12 pounds) without releasing. The good news is that they can be improved. Bill Springfield did my trigger, and it now breaks cleanly at 5 pounds with no creep. He also took out the slack and overtravel, all for around $50 including return shipping (you just send the FCG -- no need to ship the entire firearm). One of my buddies is a benchrest shooter, and he was quite impressed with the trigger.

I didn't have any sight issues with mine. It was easy to zero with an HK sight adjustment tool. I did scope mine with a TAPCO reproduction of the HK "claw" type mount and a STANAG-to-picatinny adapter. It works well, and keeps the irons visible under the optics, but it puts the scope pretty high above the bore. I added a snap-op cheekpiece to the stock to allow a good cheekweld with the scope.

The mag release is also a pain, but of course that's because of BATFE-mandated changes to the G3 design (intended to prevent installation of G3 selective fire FCGs). If you're not going into combat with the rifle, it doesn't matter. If it bothers you, there are two options. One is to have a G3 paddle installed. That's a job for a pro gunsmith, as it involves some cutting and welding, and refinishing the receiver when you're done. When I looked into it a few years ago, several guys did it and the going rate was around $200 with parts. Instead, I opted for a "Tac-Latch." The Tac-Latch is a drop-in paddle mag conversion that requires no mods to your receiver and no refinishing. Unlike a G3 paddle, however, the Tac-Latch paddle moves side-to-side instead of front-and-back. If you ask Tac-Latch, they'll say it won't fit in a PTR-91. I made it fit, however, just by using the bench grinder to radius one of the Tac-Latch components a little. Total install time, including mods to the Tac-Latch parts, was less than 30 minutes.

Here's a pic of my PTR-91. The wide forearm with bipod is a surplus G3 part. You can see the Tac-Latch paddle just behind the mag and forward of the trigger guard:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/mosmoke/guns%20110505/PTRandkit2.jpg

Onmilo
December 29, 2006, 10:49 AM
The new Company name is PTR 91 INC, not PTR-91k.
Here is a link to the new website.
http://www.ptr91.com

I have owned my PTR-91 for about two years.
It has been accurate and reliable.
Portugese and Lake City have been the most consistent performers in Mil Spec ammunition.
I like this rifle.

rbernie
December 29, 2006, 11:17 AM
Will they eat steel-cased ammo? My CETMEs run fine on Wolf; the SA battlepacks are being saved for 'special occasions'. ;)

Onmilo
December 29, 2006, 12:08 PM
I have shot Chinese .308 steel case in my PTR-91.
The rifle worked just fine though I have never used any steel case ammunition that produces match grade accuracy in any firearm and it didn't in this case either.
The original G3 was designed for brass case ammunition but in any war emergency they could/can be used with steel case ammunition though long life of the firearm won't be realized doing this.
Steel on steel wears parts faster than brass on steel unless clearance tolerances are incorporated to reduce the wear issues.
I think the steel case stuff is better served being fired in AK type firearms such as the Saiga, the VEPR, and the Chinese and Yugoslavian versions of the Dragunov but limited use of steel case ammunition doesn't seem to hurt anything on the PTR rifle in the short term.

rbernie
December 29, 2006, 12:14 PM
Steel on steel wears parts faster than brass on steel unless clearance tolerances are incorporated to reduce the wear issues.
I'm pretty new to this rifle - what would the wear points be on this rifle that might suffer from the use of steel cased ammo?

Onmilo
December 29, 2006, 12:25 PM
Specifically your extractor, ejector and bolt face.
Steel case ammunition will wear the feed lips of magazines fairly quickly too.
I would recommend you stick with steel body magazines instead of the aluminum magazines like the one that comes with a new PTR rifle if you are going to use steel case ammunition.
Quite a few people have experienced malfunctions when they switch from steel case to brass case ammunition and in most cases it is because the feed lips on their magazines have become worn and/or distorted from the steel case ammunition.
This is really prevelant in AR type aluminum rifle magazines.

Even Polymar AK magazines suffer excessive feed lip damage and wear from steel case ammunition and have to be replaced more often than steel body magazines.

El Tejon
December 29, 2006, 04:06 PM
Night, as the owner of several HK rifles I really WANTED to hate the JLD/PTR weapons. I have had the opportunity to shoot them several times now and must confess that they seem to be solid weapons.

Obviously this initially concerned me as I was worried about the impact that the clones would have on my original HK stuff. However, I have not noted any downward movement in 91s or 93s to date. I think the snob factor is inherent in HK weapons and it helps in holding value.

The weapons run fine. I did not note any distinction between brass and steel as we shot a large quanity of a box of "loose rounds" of .308 (I have wooden boxes full of loose rounds at the end of the day or found in bottom of range bags). It was mixed steel and brass rounds, but the weapon was clean and well-lubed. Do not know the long term impact of shooting steel in HKclone.

I've only shot them at 100 yards or closer but did not note any lack of accuracy. (HKs are VERY sensitive to ammo selection). Nice positive ejection (into the next county would be good for me) and the JLD/PTRs handle like HKs (meaning they are pigs, get the bipod). Triggers were not out of ordinary but all HK triggers need help (don't tell the Germans, of course you cannot tell them anything).

For under a K, get one. I'd run the full size, but that's me, not a fan of the mall ninjaesque carbines or have any experience with the inane "flipper" switches or the whole internet fad of sticking crap on guns, too many gun skul classes perhaps. However if I had to decide between an HK clone and an M14, I'd get the M14.

Father Knows Best
December 29, 2006, 04:30 PM
For under a K, get one. I'd run the full size, but that's me, not a fan of the mall ninjaesque carbines or have any experience with the inane "flipper" switches or the whole internet fad of sticking crap on guns, too many gun skul classes perhaps.
I'll generally agree with El T, here. I paid $700 for my PTR-91, and consider it a good value. I wouldn't pay the $1200+ that currently seems to be the going rate for the PTR-91k "carbine", or the $200+ they're asking for things like rail forearms. If you look at mine, you'll see it wears a standard 18" heavy barrel, without so much as a flash hider. It has no rail other than the adapter on the scope mount that was necessary for affixing a non-STANAG scope. If I was doing it again, however, I probably would have just bought a used STANAG scope.

I do, however, like my "inane flipper", assuming El T is referring to the Tac-Latch. The abominable push-button mag release on the HK91 and PTR91 is an ergonomic nightmare and exists only because of BATFE mandates designed to prevent illegal installations of "da switch." You can deal with it for target shooting, of course, but since a Tac-Latch costs around $40, why not make your mag changes a lot easier? I certainly wouldn't spend the $200+ some guys spend to have real G3 paddle mag releases installed.

mkh100
December 29, 2006, 05:00 PM
I have a PTR in the <1000 range. Father knows best pretty well nailed it for me ! Just about mirrors my experience.

While I agree with el-tejon in general I also think the mag release would be a nice improvement.

The B Springfield trigger job REALLY makes a difference, fortunately mine came with it already done :)

The only real trouble I had was with 1 particular mag that had bent lips.....but at $1 a mag I just threw it away.

Overall cost of ownership combined with excellent reliability made me a buyer. Glad I own 1.

Mike

Forgot to mention, on the minus side, there is no last shot bolt hold open. The charging handle on the left really sucks when I am all slung up. And while the sights are fine once zeroed, zeroing requires a special tool or some skinny needlenose pliers to complete (the real tool is WAY easier). As already mentioned for me this was more than offset by the low cost.

toemag
December 29, 2006, 05:28 PM
Great weapon's, but don't even think about getting one with the H&K style colapsable stock, even though it may look gucci, as they hurt your cheek bone.
get the std stock and remember that it aint an AR15 when shooting it, if you put your nose to far forward it hurt's.

Toe

SigfanUSAF
December 29, 2006, 07:27 PM
The bad news is I've got a problem with the rear sight. The rifle shoots 3 inches right at 100 yards and I've got the rear sight adjusted over as far as it will go. I need to call PTR 91 and find out what to do to fix the problem. The worst part is I'm not the original owner, so I guess the repair cost will come out of my pocket.

I bought two JLD receivers from POF a few years back for a couple of builds I was doing at the time. One of the receivers had the rear sight base welded too far over to the left, and I would have had the same condition you described. I ended up grinding the welds and re-tigging it myself. Of course,the receiver was in the white at that time so it was no big deal.

trbon8r
December 29, 2006, 10:35 PM
Sigfan,

I hate to hear that story, because your scenario is exactly what I am fearing might be wrong with my rifle. I hate to think about what fixing a problem like that would entail since obviously refinishing the receiver at a minimum would be necessary.

PTR is closed until after the 1st of the month. I'm going to call and verify to be sure my rifle left as a complete rifle, or whether it left as a bare receiver. Like I said, I'm not the original owner so I don't know the history of the gun. However, having seen plenty of "parts guns", I don't believe this is one. Everything about the workmanship suggests it was a factory job instead of a Bubba basement job.

I'm hoping I can work something out with PTR's warranty service, since the rifle should have been test fired and sighted in on paper before leaving the factory with such a defect.

mkh100
December 29, 2006, 11:48 PM
pretty sure complete rifles serial numbers start with the letter "A"

bare receivers with the letter "B"

trbon8r
December 30, 2006, 11:11 AM
Thanks mkh100. My rifle's serial number starts with an A.

jlbraun
December 30, 2006, 11:18 AM
I've heard that they tear the crap out of brass. Not an issue if you're shooting Wolf, but that nice brass cased stuff won't be as reusable. I think there's a "brass deflector" out there somewhere that will fix this.

trbon8r
December 30, 2006, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't know if the rifle tears brass up or not. It flings them so far I never bothered to even look for them. :neener:

But yes, I've heard they do rip up brass pretty good.

usmcdoc14
December 30, 2006, 11:34 AM
I've heard that they tear the crap out of brass. Not an issue if you're shooting Wolf, but that nice brass cased stuff won't be as reusable. I think there's a "brass deflector" out there somewhere that will fix this.

a fluted chamber does not exactly "help" with making brass re-usable either :D

Father Knows Best
December 30, 2006, 12:10 PM
Mine throws brass a good 30-40 feet away, and in the 1 to 2 o'clock direction, i.e., forward of the firing line. The fluted chamber leaves lines on the brass. I have no idea whether it renders them unsuitable for reloading, but I generally only shoot milsurp ammo in mine that I don't plan on reloading, anyway.

MechAg94
December 30, 2006, 12:16 PM
Yes, the brass comes out very dirty and often dented pretty good. It throws them 20 foot or more. Some of the brass is recoverable, but only a percentage.

Onmilo
December 30, 2006, 01:53 PM
Yeah, the G3 type rifle isn't the best choice for a guy obsessed with reloading every single cartridge case.
For that matter I wouldn't recommend loading any cases fired from one of these rifles.

zoom6zoom
December 30, 2006, 01:59 PM
FNB, your picture answered one of my questions- since you have a G3 .22 adapter kit there, I assume it works in your '91. I don't have a 91 yet, but I do have one of the kits (having been misinformed that it would work in my CETME). A PTR-91 is on my acquistion list for '07.

Medusa
December 30, 2006, 03:37 PM
Only G3 type rifle I've shot was this one (picturing the receiver only, you know how the rest looks like):
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45001&d=1158478247
It dents the cases pretty good, making those easily recognizable (those striped, dented&torched ones in a galaxy, to the right, far-far away, are mine).

Accuracy is otherwise pretty good, even in FA mode, I managed to keep 60% in the target @100m.

Mine didn't like the blank ammo though, maybe due ex-prompt blank firing adaptor, after 500 or so rounds the thing was in bolt-action mode - shoot and work the bolt, each time. During maneuver practice. :cuss:

One fellow did sell one of those FA ones for $100, wonder if I should buy one?

JonSmith
January 1, 2007, 08:58 AM
TRBON8R: I had a similar problem earlier this year, my rifle was shooting 3 inches high, sent rear sight assembly back and forth twice to JLD and ended up getting a new rear sight assembly free. Problem fixed. I've read of others with similar sight problems so keep at it. Even if you have to buy a rear sight assembly I don't think they are that much. Great rifle so far.

FATHER: Did the Tac-Latch inane flipper thing come with installation instructions?

Something I've found worthwhile is a slip-on recoil pad from E&L Manufacturing, part # 550, they also have a nifty chamber face cleaning brush & rod worth considering.

Last, does anyone have contact info for Bill Springfield, I've tried his adelphia.net email with no response??

Father Knows Best
January 1, 2007, 10:13 AM
FATHER: Did the Tac-Latch inane flipper thing come with installation instructions?
Yes. I had to slightly modify one part to make it fit, but it was easy, and I'm no gunsmith. I just radiused a corner using my bench grinder. You will need some brass punches to remove a pin retaining the stock mag release button, but no special tools are needed.
Something I've found worthwhile is a slip-on recoil pad from E&L Manufacturing, part # 550....
I agree. I use their pad, both for its recoil dampening and because it increases LOP by 1" (when you use both pads, as I do).
Last, does anyone have contact info for Bill Springfield, I've tried his adelphia.net email with no response??
The only address I have is wspringfield@adelphia.net, which I know was good as of a year ago. If that's not working anymore, head over to cetmerifles.com. He is well known there and is a frequent contributor to the board.

Father Knows Best
January 1, 2007, 10:16 AM
FNB, your picture answered one of my questions- since you have a G3 .22 adapter kit there, I assume it works in your '91.
Um, no, actually it doesn't. I didn't know that when I bought it. The barrel liner is too large to fit inside my barrel. I don't know why, yet, as I've never really had time to investigate. It may be possible to make it work. In the meantime, it's just kind of a cool accessory to have for display.

I thought that if I ever saved up enough money for a registered sear, the .22 kit would be a nice thing to have just for the ability to shoot cheap ammo. At that point, I'll worry about making it work.

TOU
April 27, 2007, 03:10 PM
Yeah, the G3 type rifle isn't the best choice for a guy obsessed with reloading every single cartridge case.
For that matter I wouldn't recommend loading any cases fired from one of these rifles.

So which ofd the .308 derivatives is good on brass? AR-10? Saiga?

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