Putting a scope on the K31 Swiss


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pccraig
December 29, 2006, 11:21 AM
Am I crazy ?

I've heard and read alot about the fine craftmanship and accuracy surrounding the K31 Swiss. Next month I plan to buy 2 at a local gun show. One I will keep, maintain, and shoot as is.

The other, I'd like to experiment with. I'm planning to remove the iron sights, outfit it with a sport stock, barrel mounted scope, and bi-pod to see what kind of groups I can get from 600 to 1000 yds.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks

Pat

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DMK
December 29, 2006, 02:28 PM
I scoped my best shooting K31 and free floated the barrel in the original stock. Unless you look at it closely from the muzzle, you'd never know it was floating. It shoots great! I'm still experimenting with a little up pressure at the muzzle, but I'm not sure it's making any improvement.

I tried that rear sight scout mount and hated it. I ended up with the clamp on Pierre St. Marie mount and I'm very happy with it. I just couldn't bear to drill and tap it and I don't think it's really necessary. The clamp on mount is very secure. And the best part is you can still use the irons as back up sights without changing anything

One of the best things I did to it was just clean the trigger parts. I took the trigger completely apart, and it was full of junk and old grease in there. Just cleaning and oiling made a huge difference.

Essex County
December 29, 2006, 02:31 PM
My advice is to get a Pierre St. Marie Clamp on mount and keep the iron sights. Scout set ups suck, even though they are popular. One of My K 31's is set up this way, with a Weaver K-6 and it's very workable. I have a couple of Milsurps set up with ths Scout rigs and they are neither fish nor fowl. Essex

270Win
December 29, 2006, 02:47 PM
Agreed. Get the clamp-on mount, keep the iron sights. Especially for long-distance shooting, scout setups are not the best option. The Swiss, who invented the rifle and regularly shoot it in matches, use a "regular" scope position (http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/sniper/), when they use a scope at all.

Why the sport stock? I doubt it will offer any improvement over the regular one... unless you intend to mount the bipod to a sling swivel...? The regular stock is easily channeled for a floating barrel. Why a bipod at all, unless limiting yourself to prone shots?

A strange but somewhat interesting project, though.

Davo
December 29, 2006, 04:15 PM
A scout mount is not suitable for long range shooting. I recommend a clamp on scope mount and good rings. You will need a cheek pad of some kind, and dont worry...you can still use the irons. I also lightly polished the sear surface and it improved an already excellent trigger.
Mine will shoot MOA on a good day with gp11, typical groups are more like 1.25 at 100 yards. There is some improvment to be made with reloads, but not much. The GP11 round is superb and made with long range shooting in mind.
Heres mine...

pccraig
December 29, 2006, 04:34 PM
Very nice,

I was thinking that the barrel mouted scope would help keep the barrel vibration down.

Also, what are your thoughts on adding a muzzle break.

cracked butt
December 29, 2006, 04:55 PM
Also, what are your thoughts on adding a muzzle break.

Pierre St Marie (he's the guy who makes most of the scope mounts for K-31s)was experimenting with muzzle breaks and produced a few prototypes that actually increased accuracy- I'm not sure if he's manufacturing them yet or not.
I'd go with the clamp on mount or drill/tap mount. I have a Clamp on mount myself and am very happy with it. The only downside is that it used a 3/8" rail and it can be hard to find a decent set of rings for it. I tried some aluminum rimfire rings, and it wouldn't hold zero. I ended up buying a set of Burris steel rimfire rings and it holds a zero very solid now.

I agree with others about the gp-11 ammo: if you can get it, shoot it. My besthandloads aren't much better.

Jackal
December 29, 2006, 05:21 PM
How do those St. Marie mount work for different distances? For instance, since the mount isnt centered, if you zero at 50 yards, will your poi at 100 yards move diagonally?? I just ordered an S&K scout mount, but I would be interested in a standard scope mount.

Davo
December 29, 2006, 09:42 PM
Yes Jackal, since the scope is about 1 inch off center you can deal with the slight amount of change in POI, or you can just zero exactly 1 inch right at 100 yds, or you can cant the rifle so its perfectly over the bore (its actually very comfortable but you must be consistant).

MechAg94
December 29, 2006, 10:07 PM
My clamp on mount is very solid and stable. I like it a lot. I haven't tried beyond 100 yards yet. Either way, the clamp on mounts are pretty cheap and you might be able to experiment at longer range before modifying the rifle. AIM Surplus used to sell the mounts, but I don't know who sells them now.

dispatch55126
December 29, 2006, 10:24 PM
DMK, how did you float the barrel? Did you shave the inner portion of the stock? I have a 91/30 and I've never thought of that.

spitfan
December 29, 2006, 10:57 PM
Certainly go with the clamp-on mount from St. Marie (not the knock-offs). Put the Burris Signature rings on it so you can use the different inserts. Then you can use whatever scope you want. Then try the St. Marie bipod adapter and the damper. I have this set up on one of my six K-31s with an Elite 4200 6-24 mil dot and it will consistently shoot 1 moa or better with handloads. I have used this rig out to 1000 yards with no problem. The beauty of this whole thing is the simplicity. Everything goes on and off with 1 screw and is not pernament and is rock steady. The damper being the exception. Not only is this setup fast, easy, non-pernament, no gunsmithing, and solid, it looks really cool too!!! I'll try and post a pic after the holidays.

DMK
December 30, 2006, 05:25 PM
DMK, how did you float the barrel? Did you shave the inner portion of the stock? Yes. I wrapped some sandpaper around a deep socket and increases the channel size, test fitting the action until it wasn't touching. I had to do this to the top handguard too.

Although I also did it on a M39 Mosin, I'm not sure if it would work on a 91/30 because the top handguard is so thin. I had considered it on one of my 91/59 carbines and never did it for that reason. I suppose you could leave the top handguard off when shooting or set the action down into the stock more.

Seminole
January 2, 2007, 11:54 AM
Certainly go with the clamp-on mount from St. Marie (not the knock-offs). Put the Burris Signature rings on it so you can use the different inserts. Then you can use whatever scope you want.

Ok, I'm fairly new to rifles and haven't ever put a scope on one, but I do have a couple of K31s and I want to scope one. My apologies in advance for the elementary nature of my questions.

I'm going to order the St. Marie mount. Now to the rings. Both Brownell's and Midway carry the Burris Signature rings, but I'm not sure which ones I need. Do I need the 1" or the 30 mm? Or will it depend on the scope I use? Also, what about height? Is the medium or the high more appropriate for a K31?

How does one decide which inserts (if any) to use?

And what about the scope itself? Given that the rifle itself isn't very expensive, how expensive a scope do I need? Any recommendations as to type?

silverlance
January 2, 2007, 12:15 PM
Boy I wish i could afford one of those k31 snipers. Even a repro would be nice.

I have a walnut k31 in unissued condition that the last owner drilled and tapped. he then put regular mounting pieces into the reciever, and put a cheap barska 10x or so scope on it. It looks great, but it's sad that this spectacular rifle has cheap hardware bolted onto it.

But -

How does it work? Well I get 3" regularly at 100 yards, and I'm a lousy shooter. I can hit bowling pins at 250 yards. It doesn't eject very well - I often have to either remove the magazine or shake the shell casing out.

But for 180, I'm pretty happy with it. It's not as if I can't remove the mounts one day and plug the holes back up.

Besides, ugly rifles make me comfortable =)

roo_ster
January 2, 2007, 01:19 PM
First off, the St Marie Graphics clamp-on mount is quality.

But, be sure you get yourself a scope with generous eye relief and prejudice your mounting it forward.

Otherwise, if you shoot it prone while trying to use the irons, it is possible that you could end up with a whomp dead-center on your forehead. It is a real good test of the strength of the mount & rings.

My mount & rings passed with flying colors & moved not a smidge.

I am thankful I always wear a baseball cap to the range.

cracked butt
January 2, 2007, 01:45 PM
Boy I wish i could afford one of those k31 snipers. Even a repro would be nice.

A repro would probably as expensive to make as the real thing. The K-31 snipers have a special stock that has the entire barreled action and magazine canted to one side so that the scope is mounted directly over the bore line while leaving the ejection port clear.

DMK
January 2, 2007, 09:09 PM
I'm going to order the St. Marie mount. Now to the rings. Both Brownell's and Midway carry the Burris Signature rings, but I'm not sure which ones I need.Brownell's has a clamp on mount (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1666&title=SCHMIDT-RUBIN+K-31+SCOPE+MOUNT&s=6109#6109). I think it's th St Marie mount but now I'm not sure. That's where I got mine from, but I can't remember the name on the packaging. It has a 3/8" dovetail and uses scope rings that would fit a .22 or .17 rail.

Most American scopes are 1" tubes. Verify that when you buy your scope.

DMK
January 2, 2007, 09:12 PM
Boy I wish i could afford one of those k31 snipers. Even a repro would be nice. The ZFK55 is really a whole new rifle based on the K31.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/sniper/

There were a few surplus ones for sale a few years ago. They were going for a little over 5k.

swingset
January 3, 2007, 02:23 AM
The ZFK55 is really a whole new rifle based on the K31.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/sniper/

There were a few surplus ones for sale a few years ago. They were going for a little over 5k.

Actually, they were only around $2200 with about $200 to get them here, if you wanted to import one directly. Some greedy dealers tried to tack on an addl. $1500-$2000, and worse some idiots actually paid it, but the '55 was never that much money if you bought it from the source.

Heck, I just saw a mint one at a collector's show for $3800 with all accessories, and no one was gobbling it up. It's been in this dealer's hands for 6 months or more.

I've got a K-31/43 sniper, but mine doesn't have the prismatic scope anymore and they're impossible to get your hands on. It came from Switzerland with a Meiji Japenese 6x scope on it, no idea of the history behind that, but it looks like a typical European sniper's scope.

srv656s
January 3, 2007, 06:22 PM
I put a scope on my K31 with the clamp mount and couldn't stand it. The offset scope was irritating to use (very uncomfortable to get it into a shooting position) and the ejecting brass would consistently impact the scope, most times it wouldn't even leave the gun, it'd fall back into the ejection port and would jam the next round from chambering. I ended up giving up on the project and purchased a Remington 700 instead. Much more available ammo and a much more natural mount to put a scope on...

Shawn

270Win
January 3, 2007, 11:50 PM
Do you still have the K31?

srv656s
January 4, 2007, 05:38 PM
I still have 2 K31's... I love the gun, just didn't like how it handled (or functioned) with the scope on it.

Shawn

270Win
January 4, 2007, 06:09 PM
Good!! I thought for a minute you'd given up on them ;)

dolanp
January 4, 2007, 11:51 PM
I put a scope on my K31 with the clamp mount and couldn't stand it. The offset scope was irritating to use (very uncomfortable to get it into a shooting position) and the ejecting brass would consistently impact the scope, most times it wouldn't even leave the gun, it'd fall back into the ejection port and would jam the next round from chambering. I ended up giving up on the project and purchased a Remington 700 instead. Much more available ammo and a much more natural mount to put a scope on...

This was similar to my experience. I think I will take the mount and scope off of my K31 and leave it in its original beauty and put my scope on a different rifle. I had originally thought about hunting with the K31 but thinking about shots at 200+ yds I didn't want to have to think about the windage issue with it not being over the bore and ending up wounding some animal and having it run off.

pccraig
January 5, 2007, 11:43 AM
Added new thread

spitfan
January 5, 2007, 01:11 PM
It has the Signature rings with inserts that will allow me to shoot from 100 -800 yards. I am very happy with the setup and the offset doesn't bother me at all. I have been using the mount for 4 years so I am use to it.

pccraig
January 5, 2007, 01:16 PM
So the offset isn't a problem ?

Is there any way around it ?

k31
January 5, 2007, 01:25 PM
Try this........

http://p083.ezboard.com/ftheswissriflesdotcommessageboardfrm8.showMessage?topicID=3996.topic

cracked butt
January 5, 2007, 01:26 PM
I'm thinking that the scope offset issue is more of a theoretical issue than a practical issue. M1C sniper rifles had a scope mount that was even more offset than that found on a K-31 clamp-on mount.

I haven't tested a clamp on mount further than 100 yards yet, but I'm assuming that with the scope offset by about an inch, if zero'd at 100 yards, it shouldn't be off by more than an inch at 200 yards and maybe double that at 300 yards. Crosswinds are going to have much more effect on windage than scope offset.

k31
January 5, 2007, 01:34 PM
Nope. Zeroed at 200 yards you'll see no real
applicable difference between 100 and 300 yards. The offset means no more with this setup than with the Garand M1-D

P

Davo
January 5, 2007, 02:06 PM
Wow the St. Marie peices keep getting better and better, its quite impressive.

CavalryJim
January 5, 2007, 02:23 PM
K31,

I noticed your location listed as Lost Prairie, MT. Any chance you used to own a horse named Shonkin?

Take Care,
Jim

k31
January 5, 2007, 02:27 PM
Hey!! How the heck would you know that???? Are you from Lakeside Montana??

P

k31
January 5, 2007, 02:29 PM
Never mind. :uhoh: I just figured it out. Sheesh........:rolleyes: I've been on faster tracks before, but it seems the older I get, the faster I was.

P

CavalryJim
January 5, 2007, 03:01 PM
P,

I figured "K31" was your screenname here. The Lost Prairie Chronicals make me want to move to MT...thanks for sharing.

Please allow me to use this opportunity to mention my eager anticipation of the LH thingy and volunteer as a beta tester!

Cheers,
Jim

longhorngunman
January 7, 2007, 03:00 AM
Add one $120 K31 + one $75 St. Marie scope mount+ $15 set of Millett Angle-loc rings+ one $120 Sightron 3-9-40 scope= one $330 scoped rifle setup. Being able to outshoot most rifles that are double the cost with an old milsurp rifle= PRICELESS!:)

BTW I don't see the offset scope being a problem either. It is closer to 3/4" offset than a full inch also. Zeroed at 100 yards it will move impact 3/4" at 200, 1.5" at 300yards. Crosswinds and falling bullet trajectory are going to cause more problems at further distances than the offset scope will.

il partigiano
December 6, 2009, 07:00 AM
Does someone know this sytem??
http://cgi.ebay.it/Steel-Swiss-Schmidt-Rubin-K31-K-31-clamp-on-LSR-mount_W0QQitemZ370264177492QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item563576fb54

Steve Marshall
December 6, 2009, 07:46 AM
Why not just zero at 3 or 4 hundred yards? If the thing is offset 1", then at muzzle you'd be off 1" and less until you hit your zero.

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