[Chipperman]

Is anyone else as sick of this as I am?
Did some shopping today, with my CCW of course.

Went to Home Depot first, and set off their metal/shoplifting detectors.
Went to Wally World next, and set off theirs.
After that I went into Borders books; yep you guessed it.
Then I had to go to Brooks Pharmacy. You'd think I had set the place on fire the way the alarm beeped, flashed a light, and belched out a pre-recorded message.
The only place I did not set off an alarm in today was the Stop and Shop.

It's getting to the point that I can't even walk into a store without alarms going off. I've gotten into that habit now of warning the cashier ahead of time that the alarm is going to go off when I leave. Most of them just shrug and nod.

These things are obviously not just detecting theft deterrent devices.

:barf:

[Recon By Fire]

Word Brother

It's all about control. If they can make you feel uncomfortable by beeping at you each time your leave, you might just leave your CCW at home.

[TechBrute]

Hmmm... I live in Dallas and have never seen a metal detector at a store. Of course, around here I suppose quite a few people would set them off. My CCW has never set off those anti-theft devices at the exits of stores. They aren't metal detectors. They detect passive emmisions from small tags on items. Unless you have one on your gun, I don't know what to tell you. Did you just buy a new shirt that they forgot to take the tag off of?

[El Rojo]

Yeah as messed up as the PRK is, those aren't metal detectors at the entrances of the stores here. They are anti-shoplifting sensors. I think you have a shop lifting tag on you somewhere. :D I pack everywhere and never have a problem. The only time I have set them off is when I left the store with something that didn't get the turn off scan or with something I forgot to pay for. Yes I discovered my mistake and went back and paid for it.

[Sheslinger]

Nope, have not seen these in Nashville stores. Must be a MA thing - go figure.

Sheslinger

[Greg L]

TechBrute got it. I have never seen a metal detector (or been caught by one - perhaps my KelTec or HK with all the polymer can slip through :D ) but there are plenty of security scanners out there. The thing that sets them off is a little strip of metal encased in plastic that is about 1/4"x2" that is hidden in various spots of whatever you are buying. If the checkout clerks forget to swipe whatever you are purchasing over the magnet(?) you will be beeped by the doors on the way out.

The big question I have is could you peel those things off of your various products and bring them back into the store, sweep them with a magnet (thus in theory reactivating them), and drop them onto the floor to be stepped on by assorted unsuspecting consumers. It could be fun watching the "security" people try to figure out why the exit doors keep screaming that a shoplifting is taking place :evil: .

Greg

[TearsOfRage]

I've heard of people doing that, Greg.

In addition to the strip shaped ones, there are also thin stickers about an inch square.


Oh, and if a gun would set off the detectors at Home Depot, why wouldn't metal tools? I think the detectors are often just mis-adjusted.

[Tamara]

Those ain't metal detectors, they're RF sensors made (most probably) by the Checkpoint corporation.

It ain't your gun they're sensing, but an RF source on you. I set them off for two weeks at Barnes & Noble and Books A Million before remembering that I'd peeled one of their anti-shopliftinf tags off a book I'd purchased and, not wanting to litter, tossed it in my purse. D'oh! :eek:

[Wild Bill]

Tamara's right gang.

No metal detection involved here. Not too likely y'all would be able to re-charge a negated unit and cause havoc as Greg L suggests (although I would love to be there for the laughs myself if you could!). Most big-boxes have a special unit for re-activating these that's a touch more complicated than a magnet.

Sadly, even if you could, most of the door folks seem too lethargic and uninterested to provide much comic relief.

[Tamara]

Now, once upon a time, when these were new-fangled and only attached to big-ticket items like fur coats and computers in department stores, we... er, I mean some kids, would obtain some, wrap them in foil gum wrappers, and leave them in the ashtrays at the mall exits of the stores. Now that was big dirty fun... er, "needless harassment of the mall ninjas". :uhoh:


(Edited to add: "Ashtrays in mall department stores"... That gives away my age pretty durn well, doesn't it? :scrutiny: )

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

yeah, the sensors are probably reacting to the 'anti-shoplifting' strips that are placed on goods in stores. Check your shoes and such to make sure you haven't stepped on one and have it stuck to your sole. They are 'deactivated' by degaussing them over a powerful electromagnetic plate found mounted near the register. Make sure your credit/debit cards are not near said plate.
I've never had a problem in any of the local operations you've mentioned while carrying.

Anecdotally, several years ago I worked with a fellow noone liked. The location had the aforementioned sensors at the door and we always made sure one of the group placed at least one sensor strip in the collar of his suit coat or overcoat any time we could every day until management got tired of him.

It also let management know that he came in late every morning and left early every day as well.


:evil:

Regards,
Rabbit.

[CGofMP]

You might also consider the fact that SOME access badges set them off.

Where I work we pass our badge in front of a little 'reader' which though it is behind glass notes the date, time, etc etc and opens the door.

The LAST company that they used out here provided us all with crds that set off library and other door alarms. These do not seem to do it.


In any case if you have an access card that is not a magna strip (like a credit card) THAT may well be the culprit.

Charles

edited to include:
PS: Well hot-dahmnh! Looks like this was my 100th post... Now I are A Senior member! Does that mean y'all will excuse me for Senior-Moments?

[Wild Bill]

Tamara and Sylvilagus Aquaticus. Both obviously products of a mis-spent youth!

I bow to you ingenious deviousness and vow to never cross either of you!:D

[ke6guj]

Even if a store does not use the security devices, they can still be present in the merchandise, put in at the manufacturer. You've probably seen them inside the DVD cases. So, an item purchased at a store without the system would not have the device deactivated.

Shoes and clothing can be source tagged, and if not de-activated by the store, would give you all sorts of trouble.

Jack

[gudel]

metal detector at retail stores? are you kidding? those are the for anti theft purposes where they detected unactivated embedded strip. if it detects metal, then every time people walk by it would go off. it should go off because i wear steel toe boots ;) ( i was at walmart, i bought ammo, it didn't go off on me)

[Jokerman]

Actually, it detects anti-shoplifting strips and bad guns. It detects the polymer.:p

[sm]

Never had a problem with CCW and regular scanners. I have had to leave CCW in vehicle because of Fed. ,State bldgs, couthouses and such.

I too remember the ash cans in malls...we had a mall ninja hitting on the girls and just being creepy. He was so helpful just wanted to gawk at the ladies. This was before Victoria Secret, similar type set up...so I suggestd they put the 'alarm tag" inside ash can, when he voluntered to empty it, alarm goes off. He finally got fired, but he never figured out the how and why he kept setting off alarm. I had the ladies tape it underneath.

Later another dress shop was having a rash of the employees purses and money stolen, from their break room. Mgr. brushed it off, and told security the girls were just trying to get her to spend $ on lockers.

I suggested the girls use the bar code labels and put inside purses, or better yet, put in inside folded Money, recored serial # .

Guess whom was stealing, guess whom set off the alarm, had the exact same serial #'s as recorded... Yep the MGR.

Tamara, SA...I too enjoyed mischevious 101...

[landon74]

We had problems with the 'sensormatic' security devices where I used to work. Certain peoples steel toed boots and a large number of lumber carts would set the devices off every time they passed through them. The guys with boots could have them 'deactivated' by the register, but we never could figure out how to quit getting them to set off the alarm. So we simply moved them to the other end of the building so they became someone else's problem.:D

[Sportcat]

Back in college we'd stick library books (with the sensors) in our buddies backpacks when they weren't looking. Then they'd set-off the senors at the exits when they were leaving. Many a time we hear....

"But ma'am, I don't know how that book got in my pack. It was probably my damn fraternity brothers."

Sometimes we'd stick Playboys in there too. Ahh.... the memories.

[Freightman]

Never set off any alarm, I forgot to take my gun out at the PO and nothing went off, though I was a bit uncomfortable when I realized what I had done.
I go to HD all the time and no alarm.

[Mal H]

Everyone has already explained the passive theft detection systems, no need to dwell on that.

Think of the logic behind this though, Chipperman. If stores had metal detectors at their entrances, every single person, almost without exception, would set them off both entering and leaving.

[Erik]

Do they have security personnel manning the detectors? What happens when one goes "beep?"

Erik, who has never seen a metal detector in a store before.

Edited because I realized that I walk through RF sensors all the time and have never had one alarm.

[blackhawk2000]

Only once did I set off the detector. Turns out I had an anti theft patch in my back pocket from the pants I just bought, a few days earlier. I've been thru plenty of them with gun, and didn't set off an alarm.

[CR_OPSO]

the remote to your vehicle's keyless entry will set them off. That happened to me with the remote to my Dodge (sold it, don't miss it). It was really annoying.
CR

[themic]

there's this one Borders that I always set off when i walk in. Asked the dudes, they say certain models of cell phone set em off there.

[Steve Smith]

Tamara is right, but I HAVE found that my G29 will do the trick at the local Hollywood Video.

[hksw]

hehehe. The company I work for manufactures some of the small magnetic strips that are used. Some posters have pretty much explained it pretty well concerning the anti-theft detectors. The little strips are checked for gauss levels before shipment to our customer. It is just a matter of deactivating them when the point of purchase. Some cashiers are just not doing it well enough or the demagnetizer is not operating at the needed level. Or you have something on you that puts out just the right frequency.

[DMK]

Tamara said:It ain't your gun they're sensing, but an RF source on you. Um Chipperman, did you ever consider that maybe somebody "bugged" you? :scrutiny:

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Hurray!! It's tin foil hat time!!!

[Kharn]

Is there a funny new mark or hard object below the skin on your hand, forehead or left buttcheek?
Where's the tinfoil smiley when we need him?

Kharn

[Logistar]

I have NEVER had one of those machines "go off" when I was carrying.

Only problem I ever had was when a friend (or maybe he wasn't so good a friend...) placed one of those "things" in my wallet.

Everywhere I went I was setting off those detectors until I figured it out. - Drove me crazy for a while. - But since I got my CCW a couple of years ago I have never "set off" any of those detectors. -Not in Kentucky and not when traveling out to the western states (where CCW was legal). I DO carry polymer guns though. Don't know if that would matter.

FWIW

Logistar

[Chipperman]

So let me get this straight...
This is not happening to anyone else?

I don't carry a cell phone, PDA, or any other electronic devices. My watch isn't even digital. I don't have steel toe boots. It happens regardless of what clothes I'm wearing.

Here's the kicker... It only happens when I'm packing.

Does this mean my P7 is stolen? :rolleyes:

[Chipperman]

BTW, I'ts not just a MA thing.

I do most of my shopping in NH (tax-free doncha' know).

Of course I report my purchases to pay MA sales tax when I get home. :D

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I doubt it means your P7 is stolen... it's an extreme long shot, but maybe you should strip down your P7 and check for anything unusual. This is about to drift into deep 'black helicopter' territory, but maybe someone slipped a RFID chip under the grip panel or something. I'm just blue skying here so take this for what it's worth.

But if you're going to check the gun... don't forget to inspect the magazines also.

[voilsb]

I'm always nervous going through those, though I know I shouldn't be. I'd be even more nervous if, like you, I actually set one off!!:what:

[CGofMP]

Check the holster too.

Perhaps you purchased the holster from a place that uses these or perhaps it was shipped from the factory with a strip in the bag that worked its way into the holster itself?

Charles

[Nero Steptoe]

Perhaps there's another explanation for the "circumstances" outlined in the threadstarter post.

[Mal H]

That is very interesting Chipperman. Be sure to check the things QBG and CGofMP said. Those were the types of things that I immediately thought of when you didn't come back and say something like, "Doh! I just found one of those strips in my Nikes!"

Does your P7 have any electronics attached? Laser, red dot, etc. Is there anything else you carry only when you carry, so to speak?

It might be an interesting test to go to one of the stores where you know the detector will be set off. Go through once while carrying to be sure the phenomenon still exists. Then leave your P7 in your car temporarily and go back to the store to see if it goes off then. If it is the gauss level the detector is checking for, maybe something in your P7 is magnetized.

???

[George Hill]

You wear a security card from work?
Lots of places have these cards that you have to put up near a small sensor to activate and unlock the door. These cards will also set off these store sensors.

I'm not talking about the credit card like swipe cards... these are more passive.

Just leave your work ID card in your car. If that isn't it... you must have a tag inside your gun barrel. When was the last time you cleaned it?
:scrutiny:

[Chipperman]

Not sure what you mean by that, Nero.
This is not a joke post, I'm serious.

It's a newer problem. I used to set off alarms once in a while. Over the past several months it's been happening progressively more and more.

Yesterday it literally happened in every store, except for Stop and Shop.

Neither the gun nor the holster are new. There are no "toys" attached to the gun. Same gun, same holster, same mag, even the same ammo as several months ago.

It's happened with other guns also, but I usually carry the P7M8.
When I'm not carrying, it does not happen as often.

Anyone else have this happening in the Essex County Mass or Southern NH area? I can't believe that I'm the only person around setting off these stupid alarms. :mad:

[QuarterBoreGunner]

For the life of me I can't figure out what would be causing this...

<insert Twilight Zone theme music here>

I got nuthin'

[Kharn]

Chipperman:
Could you leave your P7 in the car and try going through the detector wearing your holster and gun belt?
Do you wear a different belt when you carry vs when you dont? That, or the holster would be my prime suspect.

Kharn

[benewton]

Chipperman:

While I do know how the RFID chips work, I've not idea just what you're doing to set things off. Note, though, that I said nothing about how the store's software works...

Still, I carry whenever I've pants on, which is all the time, for those who'd scoff, and I've had no problems anywhere, including HD, drug stores, etc.

Beyond clearly exhibiting the fact that I've a weapon on board, after 8 years in NH I've more or less gotten over the "big deal" syndrome, and would merely present the carry permit if challanged, and so wouldn't worry about screening.
'course, I'd neither buy nor return, but that's another story.

Like everybody else says, sounds like you've a tag somewhere.

As a "shall issue" state, there are many more CCW's floating around than the normal Massachusetts resident, notice the restraint exercisec here as I withold the NH abbreviation for those from the south, would suspect, and we don't seem to have any problems.

[Logistar]

How 'bout this?

Go to one of the more "friendly" stores when they are not busy. Explain what is happening and ask if you can use their detector to figure out what it is.

Don't wear your gun or holster in. Does it still go off?
Have someone hold your wallet.
Try EVERYTHING you have.
If it is STILL going off, wear a jogging outfit with NO metal anywhere on it. Slip your shoes off.

If you STILL set it off...:scrutiny:

Otherwise, at one point it will stop. You will then know what caused it and can go from there.

That's what I would do anyway.

Good luck!

Logistar

[hksw]

Chipperman,

As time progresses, technology advances. The customer we supply are always looking at newer more advanced methods of providing security yet ease of deactivation. Currently, the strips being used can be defeated (deactivated) with the proper tools. We're now trying out newer materials to provide different characteristics to make unauthorized deactivation harder. On the other end, detection is getting more sensitive. It could very well be that either or both your firearms and holsters are somehow very slightly magnetized and it's setting off the more sensitive detectors. My opinion of course.

[El Rojo]

Hmmmm, Chipperman is his name? I think Chipperman has the smart chip in him hence the name and I am going to get my tin foil hat now before he transmits it through the Internet and into me. No thanks to global positioning chipper implants. :eek:

[sm]

Maybe someone planted a tag in your shoes.

What's the old story about the guy with the new car with a rattle--kept taking back to dealer, complained, wrote the company. Finally ( the story goes) they take this guys car apart and between the trunk /rear seat area is a 6.5 oz. coke bottle with marbles...and a note scrawled..." Ha, see you guys finally found the rattle...signed, a retied auto worker....

[landon74]

I'd check the holster out, if it has any type of spring to help hold the gun in place or some screws to adjust tension, they could very likely have taken some kind of charge..... try running it over the demagnetizer and see if it helps....

[DF357]

Chipperman,

I live in SE Mass and have been carrying for a cuppla years now - 4 or 5 different pieces - (not a P7) and I've never set one off. Staples, HD, Sears, and others. You got me stumped.

[nondescript]

Could a magnetic screwdriver or driver bit have passed on a magnetic charge?
Have you had any surgical procedures recently? Things sometimes get forgotten in people.
:D :D :D

[SquirrelNuts]

QuarterBoreGunner,

Do your tin foil hats come with sensormatic tags in them? I checked all of mine and cannot find a tag. OMG! Is it supposed to have a tag?!?! I think someone forgot to put a tag in my hat...or did they :scrutiny:

-SquirrelNuts

[firestar]

My guns have never set of a metal detector in a store.:confused: I used to think they would but it hasn't happened yet.

[Chipperman]

OK. As I am obviously the only person in the world that is setting these tings off..
I'm gonna do an experiment this weekend. I'll go into the stores, with and without gun, knives, etc until I figger out what's causing this.
I'll post back about it next week.
:confused:

[tyme]

I gather the pieces of metal in the shoplifting tags are cut to resonate at certain frequencies. Those detectors emit the necessary frequency, and check for changes in the return (think walking around playing a recording of a solid x Hz tone... some things will resonate and you'd be able to hear them).

Metal detectors look for any metal by detecting fluctuations in the magnetic field that are caused by metal moving through an electric field (which the sensors provide).

I don't know of any reason why some arbitrary piece of metal couldn't, through pure unluck, trigger shoplifting sensors.

Are those two descriptions accurate, or would someone care to further clarify what each does?

I took apart a tolltag years ago and I assume that's the basis for the shoplift tags (and HID entry cards), only a bit more complex... there's a shaped metal area to receive a signal, then it goes through some circuitry, then back out to another metal area that I presumed radiates the return signal.

I wonder whether setting off such detectors gives the establishment authority to detain you if you set the detectors off on the way in as well.

[Chipperman]

So far nobody has tried to detain me or search me.
I've been going over the best way to handle the situation if anyone does.

Not that I'm afraid of anything, I'm not breaking any laws. I also don't want to scare the sheeple needlessly either.

[Correia]

Do you weld? Or work around heavy electronics?

I know of one guy was worked as a welder most of his life. He set off all manner of sensors, I guess he was permanently charged. :)

[Mal H]

Chipperman - Do you have a non-resident NH CHL? I didn't think NH recognized MA licenses. The reason I ask is if you don't, any testing you do should be in MA. ;)

[BulletinBoardToughGuy]

I used to go to Borders bookstore and look at books. As you browse, the little security tags will fall out. One time a friend and I removed all of the paper backings (they are just metalized stickers) and left them in the aisles sticky side up. We sat there drinking Starbucks at the front waching people set off the alarm. It was childish and immature, but still very funny... :evil:

[Victor Romen]

Chipperman,

Have you purchased a new wallet lately? Wallets are commonly source tagged and even if the tag is deactivated it can work again with enough use of the wallet (constant bending I guess).

Most Target stores will have a hand held detector that looks like a metal detector, but is used to scan for the EAS tags. Might want to ask them to help you find the problem.

HTH

[Mike Irwin]

Been in all recently, haven't set a single one off.

Your CCW must be one of the newer models with the secret government tracking chip...

Or, more likely, the aliens got you in your sleep and "probed" you.

[XLMiguel]

Perhaps it's just your magnetic personality . . :evil:

Sorry, couldn't resist, have a nice weekend.;)

[Captain Scarlet]

I just bought a new leather wallet and it had a extra anti-theft
sensor inside one of the slots that would set off the alarm at
Barnes & Nobles, when I bought the wallet it didnt set off the
alarm when I left the store I purchased it from? but it did at B&N
bookstore :confused:

[Blue Jays]

Good Evening All-

Chipperman, I couldn't necessarily tell from the posts how you were dressed on each occasion, but I've found that clothing stores stick the security tags into the lining of high-quality silk ties.

BTW, I've learned that removing them alters the "drape" of the fabric, so I just ensure that they're thoroughly degaussed before taking them out of the store. There are literally fifty or sixty degaussed tags hanging in my closet....still attached inside the ties years after purchase!

What a pain-in-the-butt. Good luck with your investigation.

~ Blue Jays ~

[peter3334]

As a new CCW I am worried about this, my research brought me to this thread, was it ever resolved? Will my G17 set off an alarm? Thanks.

[dtalley]

When the alarm goes off either start running or stop stealing (Just Joking). My CCW has never set one off.

[Shipwreck]

I worked loss prevention for many years. Sometimes, if the sun shines in from a particular door, anyone entering would set it off. Sometimes, a rack of clothing with the tags might be a bit too close to the door. And, for whatever reason, the scanner would go off on its own sometimes, or when people walked thru.

It is NOT a metal detector - and does not go off from a gun. Think about it - people have other metal - your watch, kets, belt buckle, etc.

[mindwip]

Not to mention you have a glock

[SIRVEYR666]

Damn! This is an old thread.

[Car Knocker]

New member, first post...probably didn't want to start a new thread.

[Lupinus]

A lot can set those off. And sometimes the things ment to set them off are in tricky places, the one in my workboots literaly can't be removed unless I cut it in half because it is molded into the tred.

But I work retail, and annoying as they sometimes are they are a help.

[Chipperman]

WOW, this thread is ancient!!

Well, as the original post was mine, I'll give an update. I never did figure out what was causing it, but it was NOT the gun. It must have been some article of clothing or combination of articles. It drove me nuts, because I could not consistently get it to work or not work no matter what I wore.

It does not happen anymore, so I must not be wearing whatever it was.

[twency]

WOW, this thread is ancient!!I hadn't noticed how old the thread was until I saw CGofMP's comment that this was his 100th post. And I glanced over and saw his post count is around 575!

The thread is dead. Long live the thread!

-twency

[CoachVince]

FYI, I was setting off detectors for a month or so, in different stores. One would be OK, another wouldn't. Finally tried putting my arm, head, etc. closer to the detector. My left foot set it off consistently. Having had a problem in a mall when a tag stuck to the bottom of my shoe (thanks to some bored kid, probably!:rolleyes: ), I checked the bottom of my shoe. Nothing there. Put my foot thru, nothing, put my empty shoe thru BEEEEP!. The tag was under the sole of my shoes, which I'd bought... a month or so before.

[gunsmith]

I'll give an update. I never did figure out what was causing it

:neener: