[George Hill]

Many many people call this flick a great gun movie.
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that Loved it, and those that think it's a steaming pile of dung.
I'm the second type.
I just watched "The Way of the Gun". Hated it. The gunplay was clever and well done... but the story was void. Totally lacking.
I want my money back.
I put it up on the Ogre Movie list on good faith and the fact that I have seen a few parts in it that were admittedly clever... but the over all story totally sucked.
Hated this movie so very much.
That and it had that hag in it. I forget her name... she plays the pregnant girl in the show. I hate her. She sucks. No talent. And she is butt-ugly with a funny shaped face and head.
She seems to have suffered from both fetal alcohol syndrome and shaken baby syndrome. She has my sympathy, but she can get the heck off my TV.
And this Del Toro cat... he sucks too. He looks slimy to the core. Not just acting... but him personally. He's trying for the "young Tommy Lee Jones" vibe, but it's just not working. He just comes across as a creepy hole.
Hate this flick...
And James Caan? What is up with his neck? He's trying to do this tough guy roll, and he can't move is neck. His head is bolted in the straight forward position or something. Dude - go see a chiropractor for crying out loud! And while your at it - RETIRE. Talk about past expiration dates... Geeze.
This movie had potential... With some alternative casting it could have been much better. Taye Diggs was solid. Liked him... and the other guy... cool too. But everyone else was a loser.
What it really needed all the way through was some comedy. If it had some good smart comedy written in there, it could have been a winner.
Man, I HATED this movie!


:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

[Schuey2002]

That and it had that hag in it. I forget her name... she plays the pregnant girl in the show. I hate her. She sucks. No talent. And she is butt-ugly with a funny shaped face and head.
She seems to have suffered from both fetal alcohol syndrome and shaken baby syndrome. She has my sympathy, but she can get the heck off my TV.

LOL!

I couldn't stop laughing when I read that.. :D

[rebbryan]

http://collectdolls.about.com/library/graphics/troll.jpg

[Triad]

I think too many people here have confused good gun handling with good film making. What can you really expect though? After decades of bad gun handling, when Hollywierd finally gets it right shooters are gonna go nuts over the movie.

[Dannyboy]

I thought I was the only one here who didn't like this movie. I don't feel so alone now. Thank you.

[Nightcrawler]

You gotta be in the mood for it. I have it on DVD, but I don't watch it much.

GOOD POINTS:

-Gun handling
-chase scene where they kidnap the girl
-gunfight at the house of ill repute
-THE OPENING SCENE. It's hillarious.

BAD POINTS:

-Just about everything in between, though some of the dialouge was pretty slick. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't, depends on the day. It's not for everybody.

[sm]

Like it or Not...There is one thing everybody comes away remembering.

NEVER Jump into a dry Fountain.

:uhoh: :what: crunch

[NIGHTWATCH]

Name one (1) gun movie you enjoy George. Im curious. :cool:

[cratz2]

Man George... don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel about it. :p

I enjoy the movie. I've watched it a couple times and I will watch it again, I'm sure. I like how it looks and how it tries to be cool. I guess my gun side likes it enough. But... if I let my movie snob side take over, he says that it is pretty uneven. It alternates between a wannabe stark/minimalist movie and one that wants whitty exchanges ala Quentin Tarantino or Elmore Leonard. And what is the deal with those security guards? Everyone's a bad guy... and at some point a comment is made that the Scott Wilson character is supposed to be really crazy but it certainly doesn't come across. I guess it was just really uneven.

And I must admit, though Juliette Lewis is supposed to be one of the most desired females of my general generation (plus or minus 5 years or so) along with Winona Ryder and Drew Barrymore... she ain't no Winona or Drew. While I didn't think she detracted from The Way of The Gun, she made the remake of Cape Fear almost unwatchable and I'm not exactly sure why. I think she did a pretty good job in the excellent Kalifornia... maybe because she was a bit more in her element.

[foghornl]

Nightwatch:

Mini-series I liked for gun handling/effects

Band of Brothers

Getting almost normal looking recoil when firing the Garands. But no one got the dreaded "M-1 Thumb".

[Kamicosmos]

It was the director's first film, which makes me like it that much more! Think about El Mariachi/Desperado. Those movies aren't very good either, but at least the dude is trying to work a bit outside the system and make his own movie. Same with McQuarrie and WotG here.

I do agree with you on one point: I really hate Juliette Lewis.
When I first saw the movie, I told my friends, they should have had the dudes just grab a newborn instead....the film literally would have been the same (or better) without her in it.

And, with a baby you could have had a bit of comedy, and a few over the top cheezy scenes ala Hard Boiled...

[BigG]

I thought the opening scene and Geoffrey Lewis' death scene were superb. The gun handling was good but the spray and pray was inconsistent with the restrained handling, especially the Galil after watching the guy put rounds on people at 200 yds with the HK93. Definitely mixed as far as gun play imho. Caan was really at the top of his game in my eyes. "$5,000,000. That's not money. That's a motive with a universal adapter." :D

[Bowlcut]

Oh i agree...the story sucked. So i try not to watch it for the story, just the action and few witty lines here and there :D . Then the movie is pretty good

[MK11]

I know how you feel. I liked "The Way of the Gun" but detested "Equilibrium" and the wretched, awful, couldn't-sit-through-20-minutes-of-it "Boondock Saints."

[Correia]

George! Put the crack pipe down my friend. :D No way, WOTG was awesome.

[Steve Smith]

George, tell us how your REALLY feel!

[George Hill]

Name one?
http://www.madogre.com/Ogre%20Movies.htm
I have many.
How about "A MAN APART"?

Or how about "Romeo & Juliet"? With the SWORD 9MM...
"DO YOU BITE YOUR THUMB AT ME, SIR?!" At least it had a story.

A GOOD gun movie isn't just about the guns, but it has to be a good movie too. QUIGLEY stands out as an example of this. So does HEAT, or THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS. Good stories, good film making... AND good gunfight scenes.

And while I am at it... I like good commentary on a DVD. The Equilibrium DVD had GREAT commentary. About the characters and all that... while RONIN had PATHETIC commentary. I don't car about how you cut transitions! I want to know more about the movie not how it was edited!

[Darrin]

I watched The Way of the Gun last night and here's my take:


Great gun action (shotgun FTE, reloading frequently, lots of IWB holsters)
Plot lacked quite a bit (I got the feel they recorded everything in a few days and spent a few months editing)
Too much was edited. It's a 2 hour movie and very obvious serveral scenes were deleted/edited. The movie would have to be 3 hours long to make the plot a little smoother.
"If I want to hit her, I hit her. I want to miss, I miss." :D

[Skunkabilly]

I didn't care much about WOTG's story, but I totally dug the tacticality...

That guy carries more 1911 mags than I did at gun skul.

[Don Gwinn]

At least it had a story.

Well, yeah. Of COURSE it had a story! They lifted the plot of a dead guy's play practically word for word! Kinda hard not to make a film with a great story if you just steal your plot, characters and dialogue whole cloth from one of the greatest writers in Western Civilization.

If Way of the Gun had just been a remake of Macbeth, it would have had a brilliant plot, too. :D Writing a good story is slightly harder, of course, than stealing one.

(I love Romeo and Juliet too, by the way.

Sorry, George. I read this on Ogre, and it didn't rise to the level of email, but you're killing me with this penny-ante stuff. You don't like Juliette Lewis? Well, who does? She wasn't very good, but it was worth keeping her on just to keep Geoffrey Lewis happy, buddy, because he was brilliant.

Del Toro is too creepy? Really? Did you pan The Silence of the Lambs because Hopkins played Hannibal Lecter "too creepy?" He's supposed to be creepy. He's an absolutely amoral criminal who would do anything--anything for money. The whole point of the film is that these two don't want or expect any sympathy or empathy. They're bad, horrible, awful people. How can the amoral, awful, horrible bad guy who tortures, kidnaps, and murders be too creepy?

And James Caan? Are you kidding me? Caan was absolutely great. Sarno is supposed to be old, decrepit, and beaten up. That's what all that dialogue about "old man," "pre-war cop jargon" and "survivors" was about. Sarno's neck (not Caan's) is all messed up. He doesn't walk very well, and he pops pain medication constantly (it's easy to miss because he does it so casually, as if it were totally routine for Sarno.) As he tells the moron from "Boston Public:"

"Let me give you some advice, little fella. The only thing you can be sure of in this business, when you see a broken-down old man like me, is that he's a survivor."


There were clumsy times, yes, but this was a very good film without the gun handling. Add the fact that they tried to get that right, and it becomes great, at least if you're a gun nut.

[George Hill]

You forgot Richard III.
That was a fantastic Shakespear adaptation to WWII (You can kind of say that).

WOTG's story was completely lacking. The reason for kidnapping the girl was glossed over so fast you missed it if you blinked. The whole thing was weak.

Sorry, but good gun handling can't replace a good story.

[George Hill]

And movies with the villan as the hero... these have to be done very carefully.
WOTG didn't pull it off. Just like Mel Gibson's "Pay Back". You had no connection to the character because he was so morally void. The whole premis of Pay Back was simple revenge... and as much as that movie sucked, it at least stands above WOTG because at least you can understand revenge.

"Old cop jargon"
Was that suppesed to give me deep insight into this old and busted charater? Or that he had a friend he could call for some help? The friend playing around at shooting himself? There was Zero character development for about everyone but the stupid wretched girl. And of course, all we learn about her is the depth of her stupidity.

I supposed LOTR ripped of some old dead english guy's book too.

I think hollywood screen writers are the lowest form of creative writing. I'd rather read the poetry of a Jr High School girl than a screen play from anyone in hollywood. Notice how the best movies are stories by real writers? Sure a screen writer hacks them up... but at least the core story and depth is there.

Don't get me started on Starship Troopers. HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU SCREW UP THE BEST SCI FI BOOK EVER?!?!?!

Ogre's theory on Movies: If a gun is the center peice of the movie cover - the movie is going to suck. Factor in with this the Big Orange Fireball back ground. The % of Gun or Fireball is directly proportional to the amount of suckage in the movie. Same thing for cheesy over paid actors... the closer the faces are together - the more the movie sucks. Examples of this theory:
KUFFS.
I rest my case.

[themic]

starship troopers is a well disguised commentary on nazi germany. i think that's where it deviates from the book, which admittedly i haven't read.

Last Man Standing. Fun, fun, gunplay. Bad Movie. Might get it on DVD anyways.

[longeyes]

It's a mediocre movie with some good "gun stuff." But so is Last Man Standing, in my opinion. Now there are movies that are both good films and great "gun films:" The Wild Bunch is a classic example of that. Ditto Heat.

Juliette Lewis is a bit strange-looking, I concede, but that's part of her charm. Asymmetry can be very cool. I think she has a certain quirky spontaneity that's engaging. Now to me Benicio del Toro is Brad Pitt after a month of heavy partying. (That doesn't stop him from being a good actor.)

[longeyes]

I liked the use of guns in Ghost Dog and Amores Perros. Not fetishistic, but you see guys actually cleaning their guns as well as shooting them.

[John Harrison]

starship troopers is a well disguised commentary on nazi germany. i think that's where it deviates from the book, which admittedly i haven't read.

Since you haven't read the book, you don't know that the movie is about 180 degrees opposite of the book. That's what irritates most fans of Heinlein's work.:barf:

[George Hill]

The movie has NOTHING to do with the book. Nothing.

:barf:

[Steve Smith]

Starship Troopers was on TV last night. My roomate hasn't read the book and commented about the lame storyline. I told him, "That movie will forever make the readers of that book look like idiots." I hope he'll read it.

[Tamara]

Imagine if they made a movie of the Bible, but Satan was the good guy, and the entire populace of the Bronze Age Middle East ran around in sequin-and-feather-covered spacesuits. On rollerblades.

That's about the level of difference between the book and movie. They didn't just juggle a few things; they reversed the ideological meaning 180 degrees.

As far as the tech and stuff goes, the guys in the book were wearing super-advanced combat armor and operated mostly out of visual sight of each other, not lined up shoulder to shoulder like a bunch of Assault Rifle-wielding British Redcoats, but blazing wildly from the hip instead of actually trying to hit anything.

"See the amazing movie Starship Troopers! Based on the back cover blurb of a novel by Robert Heinlein!"



Re: Way of the Gun. The plot was way, way subtle. Most folks I've watched it with didn't get half the innuendos in the movie, with the result that they thought it made no sense. If that's the case, just sit back and enjoy the shooting. (And you think it needed comedy, George? That opening scene is absolutely hilarious. ;) )

[spacemanspiff]

i love the movie. i watch it at least once a week (thank you P2P software!)
some of the acting sucks, obviously juliette lewis, but i also didnt like taye diggs character, he didnt seem that hardcore like his partner. besides, after losing two of your team, wouldnt you replace them immediately? especially when going up against the kidnappers?

some elements of the plot were lacking, but not enough so that it isnt entertaining.

and i think benicio did a far better job in WOTG than in some other movies, like 'the usual suspects', which was also on tv last night.

[Steve Smith]

That opening scene is absolutely hilarious.

I don't think hilarious is the word for it. Its funnier than hilarious.

[Mute]

WOTG. Definitely great gun play. And yep the movie was completely devoid of any character that you could, at the very least, sympathize with.

Don't even get me started on Starship Troopers. Only saving grace of that movie was Dina Meyers. Denise Richards as a spaceship pilot? Thtats almost as preposterous as her being a nuclear physicist. :rolleyes:

[George Hill]

The opening of the WOTG was great... and into the Sperm Bank... that was some good stuff there. Then you see the guys in a waiting room looking at skin-rags and they overhear a phone call... decided to snag this girl. They had a Low Speed Chase thing going on... and after that the whole movie promptly fell apart.

[spacemanspiff]

"why is that a big deal?"

"because nobody brings up sex with dead people!"

"of course they dont. thats sick."

"you brought it up!"

"just said i never did it."

"i didnt ask that."

"you should."

[Joe Demko]

I admired WOTG as a movie with no sympathetic, or even charismatic, characters whatsoever. The bad guys vs. te bad guys, as it were. Movies like that are comparatively rare in American cinema. Our movies are typically aimed at audiences who want to identify with and root for the hero, especially our action movies. WOTG was refreshing in that it was a movie that, for once, didn't seem to be aimed at teenage boys. Movies without good guys, or at least really, really waycooll bad guys that you can't help but like, had their American hey-day back in the 1970's. Remember "McCabe and Mrs. Miller?" How about "The Culpepper Cattle Co.?" I picked those because they had guns in them, but there were others, as well.
With respect to gun handling in movies, I could really give a crap whether it is good or bad. I'm interested in the story. If the story is strong, I don't pay attention to gun handling. If the story is weak, good gun handling won't save it. I watch movies to be entertained, not as training. Goofy weapons handling has as long a history as wearing make-up in the world of entertainment. Getting worked up about it is just pointless.

[Correia]

I really enjoyed WOTG. I'm going to have to disagree with George on this one, and we are usually in pretty good agreement on movies.

I thought Del Toro and Phillipi's characters were very understated and I thought the acting was great. The dialog was good. I won't address the action scenes because we are all gunnies here.

I just found it refreshing to have a classic anti-hero movie. Probably the same reason I loved Pitch Black.

[Futo Inu]

Anyways, hi guys.

George, you have *GOT* to be kidding. I thought that Way of the Gun was one of the best movies I've seen, even without any gun play, with all the plot twists and turns. To me, the whole human interest angles of pitting people's interest in the survival of their progeny versus interest in money, etc., was outstanding. 180 degrees from ya. Although hilarious commentary. fetal alchol syndrome - lol. I think you just don't like that one actress, so you're biased. Great, great movie, all the way around, IMO.

[MAKOwner]

Dude you're crazy, WOTG was a good unique entertaining movie. Obviously you didn't catch the subtle stuff, and weren't in to the movie for some reason. Perhaps you have to be in the mood to see it, or perhaps you just plain don't like the actors so that spoiled it. Has to be something like that because that was a good movie damnit.

That stylized filth Romeo + Juliet was your idea of a good movie? Last Man Standing? Pay Back was better? Alllrrrightly then.

You sir no longer get to review gun movies, lol j/k.

[John Harrison]

Don't even get me started on Starship Troopers. Only saving grace of that movie was Dina Meyers.

(Homer voice) Mmmmmm, Dina Meyer.;) She and Michael Ironside were the only redeeming qualities of the enormous suckitude that is ST: The Movie.

[George Hill]

You mean the lame attempt at subtlety? Yeah, I caught it. But there is a difference between subtle and woefully lacking.

[George Hill]

http://www.madogre.com/images/homer_drooling.gif

Mmmm... Diz...

Starship Troopers didn't even have cool guns. Heck, even WING COMMANDER had cool guns. Er, once you saw them for the brief moments of gun play...

I did like the gunplay in WOTG. The ending gunfight with the one handed reloads... That was brilliant. But the story was pathetic.
Pitch Black was good because it had such a cool badguy that was actually being the goodguy. That made it interesting. He saved the whole film. I was disappointed when that chickybabe from Farscape got killed... she was cool character and one of the first to die. Sad. I forget the badguy's character name in Pitch Black - but he was interesting enought for a complete spin off movie. About like where he goes from there. However if Vin doesn't play the role - it's a no go. Wouldn't be worth the effort to even watch it let alone make it.
Speaking of Vin, A Man Apart was one of the best movies that came out this year so far... Great story. Great cast. Great gunplay. That one is a DVD to buy.

[GSB]

but detested "Equilibrium"

You understand that this makes you a bad human being, right?;)

[Scott Evans]

George,
You nailed it … WOTG was indeed pathetic! I hate it as well. I think its acceptance among knowledgeable gun owners has more to do with desperation then any in-between the lines mojo. All of us are so near starving from feeding upon entertainment devoid of the essential nutrients of technical proficiency that we tend to lap up any morsel that comes along. At best such can produce only a temporary buzz …

For me I need real food!
:)

[BowStreetRunner]

im going to have to disagree, WOTG was awesome in my opinion
BSR

[George Hill]

Scott, you said it far better than I could have.
:D

[Correia]

Scott, George, I know what to you get you guys for Christmas. WOTG DVDs! :D

[Scott Evans]

Yes … please do. I love reactive targets! :D

[Correia]

:D :D

[rage]

You missed a great movie.

Too bad you couldn't appreciate the fast pace, subtle humor and plot twists, against the background of exciting gun action.

Until that day!;)

[Dave Markowitz]

starship troopers is a well disguised commentary on nazi germany. i think that's where it deviates from the book, which admittedly i haven't read

Do yourself a favor and read the book. You may not agree with Heinlein but he does make you think. The film adaptation was AWFUL. That spinning sound you heard during the movie was Heinlein rolling over in his grave. :cuss:

[Don Gwinn]

Watch it at least three times and then tell me what you REALLY think. I'll even send you the DVD if you promise to send it back intact. Maybe you caught everything and just still didn't like it, but remember, if you hadn't caught it all, you'd still think you did. ;)

. . . and I think Benicio did a far better job in WOTG than in some other movies, like The Usual Suspects, which was also on tv last night.

BLASPHEMER!

[George Hill]

That stylized filth Romeo + Juliet was your idea of a good movie? Last Man Standing? Pay Back was better? Alllrrrightly then.

I think I said I hated Pay Back... and gave R&J as an example of a gun movie with a good story. Come to think of it, R&J WAS better.
What? Was the dialog not subtle enough for you?
;)
:neener:

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

I thought WOTG was really good, but if you took out the shootouts the movie would drop a lot. While the plot wasn't as good as many other movies it was pretty good, and good enough for me to buy it (well for 10 dollars). I just need to get around to getting Heat since I have seen the shootout scene about 3 times, but not anymore of the movie.

[falconer]

Finally, someone who shares my view about Way of the Gun. I wonder if we can sue the film production company for compensation for those 2 hours of our lives that were wasted?

[cool45auto]

WOTG is a great movie! I went to see "A man apart" and wasn't too impressed. I did have a splitting headache at the time, though, so am open to see it again.