AK pics -- before and after rebuild.


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rsilvers
December 30, 2006, 02:10 PM
This started as a crappy full auto Chinese underfolder which I sent to Marshall Arms.

This is what it looked like before I sent it:

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/RobertSilversDonorChinese.sized.jpg (http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/RobertSilversDonorChinese.jpg)

This is after (Click for larger images):

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7440.sized.jpg (http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7440.jpg)

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7442.sized.jpg (http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7442.jpg)

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7444.sized.jpg (http://www.silencertests.com/albums/MarshallArms/IMG_7444.jpg)


Note that he had to weld over the under-folder holes in the receiver, then repattern the receiver, and caliber convert it from 7.62 to 5.45. Lots of other details that make the transformation very detailed, such as proper Cyrillic markings and date codes.

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The Grand Inquisitor
December 30, 2006, 03:10 PM
That's really great work. although I know some people really love the underfolders, I really like that you turned this into a beautiful 5.45x39.5 rifle (my favorite cartridge).

smince
December 30, 2006, 03:53 PM
This started as a crappy full auto Chinese underfolder

:confused: :what: :scrutiny:
I'll bet that conversion cost a small fortune, not to mention in the BATFE eyes, once a full auto, always a full auto.

ID_shooting
December 30, 2006, 04:04 PM
No doubt. I see the receiver is still marked for full-auto. Is this an NFA legal rifle? If so, looks good, if not, um, we won't talk about it.

Frog48
December 30, 2006, 04:08 PM
I'll bet that conversion cost a small fortune, not to mention in the BATFE eyes, once a full auto, always a full auto.

I was wondering about that too.

Is it still full auto? If it was originally NFA legal, why get it converted semi-auto?

If it was originally full auto but not registered, I'd think that even after conversion the BATFE would be interested. If thats the case, especially since you posted this on the internet, I'd expect a no-knock visit from some friendly federal agents at 3AM.

DMK
December 30, 2006, 04:21 PM
Wow, that's unusual. So many people try to convert their AKs into underfolders.

So basically, you wanted a registered AK74?

I could see that being a lot more fun to shoot with the full stock and lighter round, if more expensive.

jon1996
December 30, 2006, 04:31 PM
I liked it before better, but I am a under folder guy, they just look more battle ready than the purty wood, and If you converted a full auto into a semi, well I just dont know, It went from a rare underfolder worth thousands to a common one worth hundreds WHY?

ac1d0v3r1d3
December 30, 2006, 05:02 PM
maybe rsilvers isnt in the US? His profile dosent say anything really.

Master Blaster
December 30, 2006, 05:41 PM
If the serial numbered reciever is the registered full auto machinegun on the NFA registry, why would changing the barrel to 5.45x39 and the stock from folding to fixed have any effect on the legality of the firearm???

After all it is the serial numbered reciever that is the machine gun in the NFA registry right????

If I have a registered m16 lower, I can change the upper and even replace the full auto trigger group.

RockyMtnTactical
December 30, 2006, 06:08 PM
Looks good.

Okami
December 30, 2006, 07:44 PM
Very,Very nice!

~Okami

AK-74me
December 30, 2006, 08:02 PM
maybe rsilvers isnt in the US? His profile dosent say anything really.

yup, it is the WWW

MechAg94
December 30, 2006, 08:22 PM
The "after" pick still has that second notch on the safety so I assume it is still full auto and the legality is the same as it was before.

A full auto 5.45 would be fun.


As far as price, 5.45 ammo is the same price as 7.62 ammo these days. AIM Surplus has cases for under $150 for corrosive surplus. I just bought a case of Wolf for about $160 at the last gun show. 7.62 was the same.

Airburst
December 30, 2006, 09:58 PM
jon1996 I liked it before better, but I am a under folder guy, they just look more battle ready than the purty wood, and If you converted a full auto into a semi, well I just dont know, It went from a rare underfolder worth thousands to a common one worth hundreds WHY? I agree. It came out very nice, but you could have done that to any crappy looking semi auto AK.

lamazza
December 30, 2006, 10:11 PM
beautiful stock

smince
December 30, 2006, 10:22 PM
It went from a rare underfolder worth thousands to a common one worth hundreds WHY?
Evidently, based on another forum, it was and still is a legal NFA gun, so it is still worth thousands.

soul_rapier
December 31, 2006, 04:06 AM
why not just buy a semi ak in that caliber ? i would not have done that but it did turn out nice .

1 old 0311
December 31, 2006, 08:44 AM
Is that a Ironwood stock?

jeepmor
December 31, 2006, 09:16 AM
If that's your personal work, you should restore classic cars. Nice job. If not, well, that wasn't cheap was it?

jeepmor

rsilvers
December 31, 2006, 10:17 AM
It was a full auto before, and it is a full auto now. You can see that on the selector lever. For some reason there is/was a lot more underfolder AKs for sale as full auto so that is most of what I own. I started with those and had them redone into other configurations such as the AK-105, AKS-74U, AK74, and AK-105. You would have a REAL hard time finding an AK-74 for sale as a transferable full auto because back in 1986 there was no 5.45mm ammo for sale in the US. And of course you will never find a transferable AK-105 since none were made or imported before 1968 so once again, I would have to have one made -- and all I have to start with in my collection are (crappy) underfolders (underfolders are crappy simply because they are underfodlers).

Ted Marshall did the work.

MechAg94
December 31, 2006, 10:51 AM
I was just shooting my AK74 clone yesterday. Full auto would be very cool.

Prince Yamato
December 31, 2006, 02:15 PM
Curiosity is killing me, roughly how many transferable (to civilians) full-auto AKs are there in the US? I thought the number was small (like 10), but more of them seem to be popping up. Is it just that collectors keep quiet, or are some of them dying off and having estate sales?

Nightcrawler
December 31, 2006, 02:35 PM
At what point did he say he converted it to semi-auto?

He didn't. People took the phrase "started out as a crappy full-auto Chinese..." to mean that after the conversion, it was no longer full auto. I think what the author meant is that after the conversion, it was no longer crappy.

As for legality, I think we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt. No reputable gunsmith would do work on an illegal gun, muchless have his client talk about it on the internet. Come on, guys.

I spent several hours yesterday hanging out in a machine gun store, though. I'm more used to this stuff than most, I guess. :D

Anyway, given the difficulty and expense in owning a machine gun as per the National Firearms Act, I can see why one would want it to be as nice as possible!

MisterPX
December 31, 2006, 02:41 PM
Nice. A 74 MG must be a blast to shoot compared to a 47!
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of pricing ballpark was the Marshall conversion? Also, did you do it to a trans. or sample gun?

FALna45
December 31, 2006, 03:07 PM
underfolder AKs for sale as full auto so that is most of what I own. I started with those and had them redone into other configurations such as the AK-105, AKS-74U, AK74, and AK-105.
:what:
NICE. if all were executed as the above example, that's a swell sounding collection!
but uh, the links to their pics are missing....... :confused:

what lower HG is that in the pics please?

Ian Sean
December 31, 2006, 03:58 PM
Wow! Marshall Arms knows thier stuff, great looking welds and blending in, REAL craftmanship going on there.

The wood looks really nice....down right purty:)

I also had no idea the underfolders for FA AK's were more common or undesirable, thanks for the info...either way that is now a nice rifle!

rsilvers
December 31, 2006, 05:04 PM
There has to be at least hundreds of AKs that are transferable full auto, if not thousands.

DMK
December 31, 2006, 06:04 PM
I don't know. There's just something wrong with that. AK's are supposed to be beaters. :uhoh:

But, since that AK is worth thousands (which is really ironic when you think about it), I suppose it's OK. ;)

It does look really nice. I'll bet it shoots a lot nicer now too.

Prince Yamato
December 31, 2006, 07:20 PM
Now all you need to do is gold plate one of your other ones :neener: BTW rsilvers, I'm with you in terms of AK set-up. I think the wood is what makes the rifle beautiful. The folders I think, "cheapen" the AK (even though they're usually more expensive).

DMK
December 31, 2006, 08:39 PM
folders I think, "cheapen" the AK (even though they're usually more expensive).Folders aren't really better or worse. They are a compromise. You give up comfort (and a classic look) for compactness (and a more evil look perhaps, although I don't see how you can make an AK not look evil). Certainly a lot of thought and manufacturing expense went into some folder designs.

They are more expensive in semi-autos purely because of demand and because for the 10 dark years between 1994 and 2004, they were much less common. It's interesting how in NFA AKs, the situation is reversed and fixed stock AKs are more desirable. I guess it proves we always seem to want and are willing to pay more for what is harder to aquire.

rsilvers
December 31, 2006, 10:55 PM
I am only saying underfolders suck. I no way am I saying 'folders' suck. Sidefolding AKs are wonderful.

kirkcdl
January 1, 2007, 11:50 AM
I prefer wood stocks also,except when they look like this:http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24064&d=1114610822

DMK
January 1, 2007, 01:10 PM
I am only saying underfolders suck. I no way am I saying 'folders' suck. Sidefolding AKs are wonderful. I definately prefer the sidefolder to the underfolder. I love the Romanian folder on my SAR1. It's very compact folded and nice and solid when extended. But when you are shouldering the weapon and trying to hit something, you do wish you had the solid wood stock.

The best compromise is that solid hinged stock (http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16851&cat=251&page=3). (but to me, this would only look right on a '74 or '105)

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/d_874.jpg

Gewehr98
January 1, 2007, 03:50 PM
I am only saying underfolders suck. I no way am I saying 'folders' suck. Sidefolding AKs are wonderful.

Somebody tell me this NFA Krinkov (very similar to my own) isn't wonderful:

http://alliedarmament.homestead.com/Yugo_m92_closed_op_800x408.jpg

Prince Yamato
January 1, 2007, 06:11 PM
Aww crap, well, you got me on the Krinkov. In terms of function, a fixed stock on one would be kind of defeatist. I just meant that on a traditional AK, I preferred the wood stock. I think the wood stock gives the rifle connection to WW2 and pre-WW2 rifles. It's the "bridge-to-the-past" if you will. Though I suppose you could argue for a side-folder skeletonized stock on a krinkov. None of this is to say that I wouldn't ever purchase an underfolder. I just prefer the fixed stock. I like hardwood ok? Now everyone quit buggin' the Prince :)

rsilvers
January 1, 2007, 09:21 PM
The AKS-74U (what some people call a 'Krinkov') is not an underfolder. The Russians had no such configuration. Also they are 5.45mm.

Here is what they are supposed to look like:

http://www.volny.cz/ak-47/aks-74u/aks-74ubig.jpg

Gewehr98
January 1, 2007, 09:25 PM
Here is what they are supposed to look like:


Says you. Nobody else in the former Warsaw Pact besides Russia can build a proper shorty Kalashnikov variant with underfolder and 7.62x39 vs. the hard-to-get 5.45x39? Or is your NFA tax stamp money somehow worth more than mine? Sounds pretty damned elitist to me, "That isn't a real Krinkov, neener, neener, neener." BATF told me it was when I did my SBR Yugo M92 Krinkov paperwork. :scrutiny:

rsilvers
January 1, 2007, 09:29 PM
Says me and General Kalashnakov. I know his thoughts on the matter. Here is me having breakfast shots with him after crashing at his house follwing a hard night of partying.

http://www.silencertests.com/miscphotos/MeAndMlk.jpg

It is a Russian weapon design. That would be like saying a Canadian Diemaco variation of the M16 would be the goal of a collection rather than a Colt M16 or M4. Both work fine as rifles of course.

Prince Yamato
January 2, 2007, 02:09 AM
Krinkovs...so beautiful... so beyond...my...financial means...trying hard not to cry.

Edit: Just curious rsilvers, since you are a Kalashnikov expert, what is the origin of the Krinkov name? I've always wondered.

Kahramon
January 2, 2007, 05:11 AM
I heard Krinkov was the last name of an alleged Soviet Army soldier from Afghanistan war whose weapon was captured - AKS-74U and since then on the West they call this wonderful technical device in this way.
But in reality I have never met anyone with such last name (I live in post-Soviet country).

DMK
January 2, 2007, 12:36 PM
what is the origin of the Krinkov name? I've always wondered.

According to wikipedia (and I rememeber reading this somewhere else), it was a derogatory name assigned to it. The Russians never called it a Kirinkov and apparently never had any official name for it, just a designation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krinkov

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm

rsilvers
January 2, 2007, 12:41 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKS-74U

Gonefission
January 2, 2007, 01:03 PM
Says you. Nobody else in the former Warsaw Pact besides Russia can build a proper shorty Kalashnikov variant with underfolder and 7.62x39 vs. the hard-to-get 5.45x39? Or is your NFA tax stamp money somehow worth more than mine? Sounds pretty damned elitist to me, "That isn't a real Krinkov, neener, neener, neener." BATF told me it was when I did my SBR Yugo M92 Krinkov paperwork.

Ditto


rsilvers, Just because you got to drink with Mr K doesn't mean your $h1t doesn't stink. Should we gather all the underfolding AKS-74U's of the world and burn them becuase it's not what you deem to appropriate. You should make another film about gun snob training.

rsilvers
January 2, 2007, 01:07 PM
It just was evidence that I knew his thoughts on the matter, and that it was not just my sole opinion. I personally choose not to disregard the designer's feelings in judging my selection of AK designs.

If they are underfolding, they are not AKS-74Us.

Not that mine is either as it is just a copy I had made, though my goal was to make it be as authentic as possible to the Russian design.

I would not burn them. You can convert them with Bulgarian kits or leave them as-is if you prefer a non-Russian AK configuration.

kirkcdl
January 2, 2007, 01:09 PM
High Road,huh??

Gonefission
January 2, 2007, 01:22 PM
Not that mine is either as it is just a copy I had made, though my goal was to make it be as authentic as possible to the Russian design.


It will never be a Russian rifle no matter how many smiths you send it to. Why didn't you just get a Russian rifle instead of "transforming" a chinese UF?


IMO All AK's have their place in the world.

rsilvers
January 2, 2007, 01:27 PM
There are no transferable AKS-74Us in the US. Imported machineguns were cut off in 1968, and the Russians did not design it until 1974. So the best one can do is make as close a copy as possible.

richardschennberg
January 2, 2007, 04:31 PM
1. There are a lot of countries that allow full-auto. Many countries require a permit, and in some of those a gun permit is good for any gun, including full-auto.
2. There are some places where the government bans guns, but the CIA factbook and many other sources suggest that you should always have a gun with you! I guess it would be a judgement call if the police or the criminals are a greater threat.

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