Shipping a gun in parts?


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BoneDigger
December 30, 2006, 02:30 PM
If I want to ship a pistol to a guy to have some work done, can I strip it down, remove the barrel and grips, etc. then just ship the slide and frame without having to declare it as a gun? I'm guessing if I sent the slide separate from the frame it wouldn't be an issue, but can they be in the same package? Sure would save on shipping charges.

When I say frame, I am meaning, basically the trigger and everything INTACT, but with the grips removed.

Todd

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Old Fuff
December 30, 2006, 02:42 PM
Nope. The BATF&E (bless their little pointed heads) consider the frame or receiver that is stamped with the maker's name and a serial number to be "THE gun." :fire:

So you can ship any parts you want, except for the frame or receiver. That has to be declared as a firearm.

However if you ship the frame and associated parts in one box, and the rest of the parts in another, you may ruin some thief's day... But if one of the two boxes gets lost or stolen you have a problem. So be sure both boxes (or one if you ship everything together) are well insured.

Fun2Shoot
December 30, 2006, 02:44 PM
I had the same idea a while back and posted it also. Other posters said that even a bare frame with a serial number on it is considered a "firearm". I was thinking about shipping the gun in two separate boxes on the same day to the same gunsmith to have them blue the whole gun etc. One box with the frame and the other with the slide etc. to avoid the next-day-air costs plus having to sign for it to receive it back at home.

Most folks agreed that it could NOT be done legally, FWIW.

dcloudy777@aol.com
December 30, 2006, 02:52 PM
Keep in mind that the whole "next day air" thing is UPS and FEDEX regulations, not any sort of law. I don't think the brown-clad ninja SWAT team is gonna come kick your door in anytime soon. That being said, I can also forsee difficulties filing a loss claim if the shipper's rules weren't followed and something happened to your package. If your a scrupulously honest person, good for you, and your best bet might be to have your local dealer send the gun in for you. Dealers can still ship handguns via US mail, and I know for a fact that the local dealer in my neck of the woods (me :D ) would be happy to help you out.

DanO

ultimatesixgun
December 30, 2006, 03:00 PM
Yea,

That is a big no, no! do it the right way and follow the law as to how to ship a handgun becuase you will not ever save enough in shipping if it is ever discovered that you are shipping this way to 1) get you out of jail and 2) hire a lawyer to defend an undefendable case! Because the BATFE ain't playing and you will be made an example of.

Look at it this way too, If the box was damaged and the firearm exposed in shipping and was not declared, it will be confiscated and never returned and all the people (fed's) that you don't want to see or have to explain youself to will be showing up at your door not very happy. :banghead:



USG

ProficientRifleman
December 30, 2006, 03:07 PM
First, is the person to whom you are shipping your handgun a licensee (professional gunsmiths require an FFL)?

Second, if he is a licensed gunsmith, you can ship directly to him and he can ship the gun back to you after the work is completed. This complies with federal law.

If you live in a restrictive state, you may have other requirements to deal with.

Call the fellow and make sure he is an FFL first. If he is not, don't ship it to him.

ultimatesixgun
December 30, 2006, 03:28 PM
First, is the person to whom you are shipping your handgun a licensee (professional gunsmiths require an FFL)?

Second, if he is a licensed gunsmith, you can ship directly to him and he can ship the gun back to you after the work is completed. This complies with federal law.

If you live in a restrictive state, you may have other requirements to deal with.

Call the fellow and make sure he is an FFL first. If he is not, don't ship it to him.


That still does not exclude you from claiming it as a firearm when shipping!


USG

RNB65
December 30, 2006, 03:32 PM
You can ship the slide with no problem but not the frame. ATF regs declare the frame/receiver to be a firearm. A stripped-to-the-bones receiver must be shipped using the same rules as a fully functioning firearm.

Jim Watson
December 30, 2006, 03:34 PM
Well, actually it does, if you READ the LAW. The BATF FAQ is deceptive on that. You only have to notify the carrier that you are shipping a gun if it is NOT going to an FFL. Which is legal to do only for intrastate shipment or if you are shipping it to yourself at a different address.

But the liklihood that the carrier would use any irregularity to deny an insurance claim in case of employee theft or that the feds might land on you and require you to hire a lawyer to explain to a judge the difference between the law and the FAQ makes me bite the bullet and pay the airmail.

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2006, 03:59 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong but I don't think an FFL holder can legally ship or return a firearm to a non FFL holder even if it is the receipients own firearm. A non FFL holder can ship a firearm to an FFL holder if it is so identified but it would have to be shipped back to another FFL (at least that was how it was when I was an FFL holder). When I shipped a firearm anywhere (as an FFL holder) I not only had to identify the contents but also had to put my FFL# on the package on EVERY side. Times and laws change,I guess.

Monkeybear
December 30, 2006, 04:31 PM
I know the manufacture can send it right back to the owner, because its not being transfered. Its already yours. However I am not sure about whether a smith gets to do that. I think so but Im not sure.

gezzer
December 30, 2006, 08:40 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong

You are wrong. Do some researches before making statements that make you look foolish.

Gunsmiths and manufacture send Firearms back to customers all the time. Common knowledge

If you realy were an FFL you never read any of the books the ATFE supplied you. Put you FFL # on the packages? You sound like a Poser to me.

RNB65
December 30, 2006, 09:02 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong but I don't think an FFL holder can legally ship or return a firearm to a non FFL holder even if it is the receipients own firearm.

As geezer pointed out, you are very wrong. Gun manufacturers and gunsmiths ship repaired/modified firearms directly to gunowners every day.

snowtigger
December 30, 2006, 09:21 PM
I know manufacturers can send it directly to the owner. Last summer I had to send my SRH to Ruger for repairs, and I shipped it directly to Ruger, via UPS.
It came back FED EX. BTW the lady who delivered it is a cowboy action shooter. She shoots mounted. She fell in love with my '94 Win Trapper in .45 Colt.

Soybomb
December 30, 2006, 09:21 PM
If you're shipping it to a FFL then legally you don't have to declare it to UPS or Fedex legally, though their company policy requires you do. Now if you need to make an insurance claim they might not want to pay. Of course if you shipped it as machine parts insured for $500 and the package was completely lost, its hard to prove its a gun. Thats a moral decision you'll have to make. To the ATF the frame is the gun, would UPS refuse to pay an insurance claim made for a receiver that wasn't shipped next day air....I have no idea. Personally its not illegal, I'd keep my trap shut and mail it UPS ground and take my chances.

And before someone who hasn't read the law tells me how I'm wrong and that'll get them thrown in jail I'll link to this image that I wind up posting a few posts after I give this advice in every thread http://cyber-byte.com/photos/atf.jpg

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2006, 09:22 PM
Just what may I ask leads you to that assumption? I was indeed an FFL holder from 1977 until 1984 (it cost $10.00 per year at that time). The United States Postal Service (at least the postmaster at my post office) required me to put my FFL# on every side of the package. The statements I made were true at the time that I was speaking of and I pointed that out. Which statements made me look foolish?

EOD Guy
December 31, 2006, 01:23 PM
Just what may I ask leads you to that assumption? I was indeed an FFL holder from 1977 until 1984 (it cost $10.00 per year at that time). The United States Postal Service (at least the postmaster at my post office) required me to put my FFL# on every side of the package. The statements I made were true at the time that I was speaking of and I pointed that out. Which statements made me look foolish?

When you said that a firearm could not be sent back directly to the owner when you were an FFL. That has always been permitted and was in the original text of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

You may have been thinking of handguns via the USPS. That requires a dealer on both ends.

jimmyraythomason
December 31, 2006, 04:49 PM
The United States Postal Service was all that I used and handguns were all that I ever shipped to anyone. Perhaps therein lays the confusion.

Jim Watson
December 31, 2006, 05:35 PM
Yes. The Post Office will not mail a "handgun" for an American Commoner.
They also have a very strict definition of the term, in excess of BATF policy. I had to get a FFL to submit the USPS form for mailing my pellet pistol because the Post Office considered it just as much a "handgun" as a .500 Magnum.

gezzer
December 31, 2006, 08:57 PM
I am sorry for calling you a poser.

USPS requires FFL to FFL and a form PS 1508 signed is also required. But putting your FFL # on the package is not required in fact it is a very bad idea. Requiring identifying the package as a gun is in fact illeagal but the USPS has not stopped comming up with idiots that need training.

jimmyraythomason
December 31, 2006, 09:41 PM
Gezzer; it never occured to me to specify the USPS as who I was using. The USPS was my ONLY option as UPS didn't have an office in my town (Oneonta,Al.) in the '70s and I don't remember Fed-X being available then. UPS delivered to me regulaly but getting a pick-up was all but impossible. UPS did have locations in Birmingham and Gadsden but that was too far away for pick-ups.

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