.357 Lever action...


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Carbon_15
December 31, 2006, 11:25 AM
I'm considereing one as my next fun-gun...

Opinions, pictures?

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Brian Williams
December 31, 2006, 11:27 AM
The Search function is your friend, and a Marlin 1894C is my favorite rifle. Go find one and check it out, you will love it.


I like the C version with a 18.5 round barrel but a 24" cowboy would be nice.



If you get one, start reloading and check out 180 gr JSPs with some Lil'gun.

NailGun
December 31, 2006, 12:09 PM
Yup..YUp...YUP!!! YOU NEED ONE! :D Marlin 1894C or 1894 Cowboy (if you prefer the octagon barrel). Fine rifle. Guaranteed to give you a lifetime of cheep shooting pleasure. When shooting, it will bring a grin to your face in a way that a mere .22 lr. can't. :D

Nightcrawler
December 31, 2006, 12:27 PM
Load up some Buffalo Bore ammo in there and you'll have a carbine that's in the territory of .30-30 and 7.62x39mm in power. .357 Leverguns are FUN. I used one to teach a lady friend of mine how to shoot. Recoil with standard cheap .357 loads is very mild.

lubbockdave
December 31, 2006, 12:33 PM
don't over look the rossi's...but my first choice and favorite would be Marlin as well. The one in the picts is a pre-cross bolt safety in great condition that I MIGHT be talked out of, but you probably will find a cheaper alternative elsewhere...

Z_Infidel
December 31, 2006, 12:48 PM
158 gr JSP rounds aren't too shabby for general use either...

MCgunner
December 31, 2006, 12:59 PM
I like my Rossi because it's a Winchester 92 copy. The rear sight sucked, though, replaced it with a ghost ring aperture that has graduated click adjust elevation which is way cool because my light .38 loads shoot way low to my magnums.

All in all, the 1894 Marline, IMHO, is a better rifle, just that the Winchester look is cool and I like it. I avoid nickeled brass in it, though, for magnums. I've had some brass separation issued in it, but only with nickeled brass which is brittle compared to regular brass. I'm not sure how many times I've reloaded the cases, though, and they're pretty hot loads. So, I try to use fairly new brass in it and not nickeled. Wouldn't be an issue with factory, I reckon.

I did have an ejector break in the Rossi. Had to have a smith repair it. The hot loads might have gotten to it. I think the Marlin is a stronger gun. JMHO of course. I mean, I like the gun a lot, just think the Marlin is probably the stronger, better product. The Rossi is accurate. Killed a doe with it at about 80 yards using a hand cast gas checked 158 grain SWC. Doe went about 15 feet with a lung shot behind the shoulder. I also have a light 105 grain SWC .38 handload that approximates .22LR applications like squirrel. It is only about 2 1/2" at 50 yards accurate, though. Most of my squirrel hunting is done with a pistol, anyway. The Rossi, with the irons, shoots about 4moa with .357 loads.

hqmhqm
December 31, 2006, 01:25 PM
I got a Marlin 1894C and it is one of my favorite guns, but the rear sight does suck, I 'm replacing it with a brass aperature sight.

I also have a .22 Browning BL22. I love lever rifles.

Rexrider
December 31, 2006, 05:14 PM
My opinion would be you need to run, not walk to your nearest gun shop and buy one. :D

Trust me on this. They are very fun and very practical. What more can you ask for?

The only thing you need to consider is caliber. If you think it will be used for hunting then I would recommend the .44mag. If strictly a fun gun as mentioned then the .357/.38special is the way to go. Even in .357mag, with the right loads and range, it is still a capable dear rifle.

I have a Marlin 1894c in .357mag and would never give it up.

RoyJackson
December 31, 2006, 05:56 PM
Got one and they are great!

We often dscuss SHTF guns here... Although .357 Mag may seem kind of puny for a real SHTF situation, the usability of ammo in a long gun and a hand gun seems quite sensible to me.

Yo
December 31, 2006, 06:35 PM
I have a Marlin .357, and two Uberti Italian clones, one an 1866 "Yellowboy" (brass receiver and all), and a 24" model 1873. The 1866 and 1873 both employ a toggle action. This is much, much smoother than ANYthing Marlin makes. The '66 and '73 also use a vertical moving shuttle that allows a straight-through movement of the case from the mag tube on to the carrier and then from the carrier into the chamber. In my mind this is a superior design compared to the Marlin. No question it feeds faster and more reliably. All the Cowboy action lever gun speed records have been set with toggle actions.

With a $125 action job on a '66 or '73 you can get the pull weight on the trigger down to 1.5 pounds and lever the gun with your pinkie finger. You can also do action work on the Marlin, but it will never be 'butter-smooth' like the toggle actions.

The Uberti Win '66 and '73 clones have excellent barrels and are the choice of the lion's share of recent cowboy action champs. Even without action work they are much smoother and faster to cycle than a Marlin. The barrels on my two Ubertis are very nicely finished and the guns clean-up very fast.

One benefit of the toggle action is that all the linkages for the lever are sealed off from the combustion area. Hence the linkages stay clean and you can shoot thousands of rounds without doing much more that wiping down the elevator and cleaning the bore and chamber.

The wood stocks are clear-coated and run from good to excellent. If you shop around you can find one with excellent figure--sort of luck of the draw. These guns hold their value very well because the dollar is retreating relative to the Euro. After 3 seasons of fairly hard use, I could sell both my Ubertis for more than they cost.

For looks, it is hard to beat an Uberti 1866 or '73 with case-hardening...

Uberti 1873 (steel receiver):

http://www.shooterschoice.com/uberti/ubertiimages/RIFLE73WORKS0053.JPG

Uberti 1866 (brass receiver--38 spl only)

http://accurateshooter.net/Products/uberti1866.jpg

GrandmasterB
January 1, 2007, 10:30 PM
Love my Winchester. Some don't like the crossbolt safety, but it works for me. Super fun and handy rifle.

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/bungib/PublicFolder/Guns/Trapper04sm.jpg

de
January 1, 2007, 11:31 PM
I bought a rossi from Navy Arms several years ago. 24 inch octogon barrel Model 1892 Winchester clone. I stripped the finishoff the stock and found really nice walnut. 5 coats of hand rubbed true oil and it looked like an original. Didn't like the feeding and called Navy Arms. They offered to fix it but, I instead had them send me a new ejector. Fitted it myself and boy does it eject. The rifle is a tack driver, and I literally don't leave the house without it. I carry it every day. Like the other guy said, inside 75 yards it will do about what a 3030 will do. Of course I have a 94 in 3030 bought new in 1957 or 58.:D

BryanP
January 1, 2007, 11:46 PM
As mentioned above do some searches on Marlin 1894C. You'll find lots of people talking about how much they love theirs. I know mine is possibly my single favorite rifle.

bubbygator
January 2, 2007, 12:14 AM
I bought a LSI Puma .357 in SS cuz I fell in love with it's looks. I have poor old eyes, so I (my smithy) put a fiber optic front & a ring rear on it. Made it look even more purty. And it shot just great too. But my eyes just couldn't handle it, so I had to sell it. A nice gun.

106rr
January 2, 2007, 05:03 AM
I have a Marlin 1894CS with a Williams Foolproof receiver sight. It is an amazingly handy rifle. It clearly has plenty of power for any task concerning short range defense except the great bears. It's accurate, cheap to shoot with 38 special and you can practice on an indoor range. It doesn't shoot the 125 gr very well stay with 158 or more for accuaracy.

Nematocyst
January 15, 2007, 03:55 AM
OK, can we talk about these .357 lever guns a bit more?

I've been making noises for a long while about getting a Marlin 336 (probably A or C) in .30-30 as my main (really, only) centerfire rifle. (Yes, I'm a minimalist, looking for that optimal small toolkit.) It's main use would be deer.

In the last 24 hours, I've started considering a .357 handgun, probably something like a SW 686, SW 620 or a Ruger GP100. I'd prefer a 4" barrel, but am open to a 6". I'd like to use that revolver for both SD (in addition to the CCW 642 in .38) and possibly for short range deer hunting.

I've spent the evening reading threads on the .357, it's sufficiency for deer hunting, whether a 4" barrel would be sufficient (see this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=48038&highlight=686), which I'm considering reviving, for some surprising comments about the adequacy of a 4" .357 for deer), etc.

I like the idea of having only limited types of ammo to deal with. Depending on the outcome of this research, for me, that could be 12 ga, .22 LR and .357/.38 spl. (I'm considering selling a K9 and replacing it with a .357 mag revolver.)

Realistically, even if I go with the .30-30, that's still not many types of ammo to deal with.

So, to my question: I can't find a reliable source of info anywhere comparing the ballistics of .357 mag out of an 1894C with the .30-30 from a 336.

I've read several comments in this and other threads to the effect of, "With appropriately hot rnds (e.g., Buffalo Bore), a .357 mag out of a carbine will rival a .30-30, at least inside 100 yds."

Could anyone offer up more information about that topic?

Why only to 100 yds? My suspicion is that the .30-30 is still going to be more effective on deer past 100 yds, at least to, say, 150. But I'm no ballistics expert.

Any links to good essays comparing those calibers, especially for deer, at modest ranges?

Opinions welcome.

Nem

4fingermick
January 15, 2007, 08:33 AM
The 30/30 will move a 150 or 170Gn bullet along well over 2000fps. The 357 is a top little lever gun round, but a 158gn 357 will be below 2000fps I reckon, I haven't tried hotrodding my 357, got too many powerful rifles to bother running it pedal to the metal.

If you want hunting strength rounds, I'd be wary of the 1866. I have one in 44/40 and it does not like factory ammo, winchester factory loads stretched the frame, big dollars to fix. Maybe ok with the more modern ones, but I can't imagine it being much stronger. Mine is a Uberti form the 70s and it gets fed cowboy loads only.

I have a 357 Rossi and it is a hoot of a rifle and has ok sights, square notch rear and square front blade, good, clear sharp sight picture. I think th enew ones are not so good. My 44Mag, which is near new is useless in the sight area. Gold painted from round bead, buckhorn, rear, very hard to use, foresight disappears.

If I had to or wanted to get by on one, I'd choose the 30/30 and buy one of the new SSteel Marlins with the long barrel. They are a great bit of kit, I reckon the stocks look like sin, but I'd be prepared to put up with them.

A standard Marlin would be fine. If you are happy with open sights, a second hand Winchester would be the go as well. Bullet proof, but not so good to mount a telescopic sight on.

I have a 30A Glenfield paid for, awaiting the permit to take it home. I'm tempted to throw more money at it and get the new one (XS, XT or whatever it is).

Mick

Hobie
January 15, 2007, 11:32 AM
Lubbock Dave sold me a fine 1894C (he should NOT have sold) and I love it. ;)

pbhome71
January 15, 2007, 12:04 PM
I have a Marlin 1894 in 357 Magnum. Instead of running it hot, I load sub-sonic for it.

Loading at 38 Special level, it is pretty quiet. I think it is as lound as an airgun.

My friends still making fun of mine. They all call it a Red Ryder. :) However, IMHO, it is one of the rifle that after I got it, I wonder why I didn't get it sooner.

-Pat

atomchaser
January 15, 2007, 12:18 PM
You can find some stats on the a hot 357 out of a 1894c here: http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

Not quite up to 30-30, but certainly adequate for deer within 100 yds.

I have an 1894c and really like it. An upgrade to peep sights and a replacement trigger is well worth it.

MCgunner
January 15, 2007, 12:27 PM
The idea of the .357 rifle being anywhere close to .30-30 in exterior ballistics is just total BS. I'm sorry, but I have a .357 carbine and a chronograph and I can prove it's not. I'm very sceptical of Buffalo Bore's claims and even if they have some sort of magical loadiing recipe like Hornady does with light magnums, I wouldn't buy the stuff. My .308, my .257 Roberts, and my 7mm Remington Magnum are FAR better hunting rifles, no contest. Even my 12" TC Contender in .30-30 has better ballistics, effective on deer to 200 yards. It makes as much energy at 100 yards with a 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip as my .357 carbine does at the muzzle shooting 14.5 grains of 2400 and a 158 grain Lee hard cast annealed gas checked bullet. I've killed a doe at 80 yards with the little .357, lung shot, deer went about 25 yards and fell. So, yeah, it'll work on deer to 100 yards, but it's not a .30-30 and never will be. However, IT IS GREAT FUN AT THE RANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D I love plinkin' with that thing, it's a total hoot! Mine is a Rossi M92 20" upon which I've added a ghost ring apperture sight.

arthurcw
January 15, 2007, 12:36 PM
Until November, a .357 level gun was at the top of the "next gun" list. I can't wait until it's back at the top. I want one so bad. The one I really like above all is the Puma. But I'm a sucker for 16" barrels.

mainmech48
January 15, 2007, 02:05 PM
I've expressed the opinion that having a pistol/revolver and a handy carbine chambered for the same cartridge is just as practical and 'tactical' today as it was back in 1875 here on several occasions. I still think so, and only wish that there were some options out there as affordable as the Marlin and Rossi for things like the 9x19, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

Two of my very favorite all-around fun guns are .357 carbines: a Rossi 92 'Trapper' and IMI Timberwolf pump. For my most common pursuits they get very nearly as much use as my beloved .22 RFs, and I'd even venture to say that they have several distinct advantages in versatility and effectiveness for many of those uses.

They're light, handy, slick working and extremely accurate with lead or jacketed bullets. Any .38 Spl. load except WCs will feed and function perfectly, and recoil/report are mild enough that an eight-year-old child can be introduced to CFs with ease. Though I wouldn't exactly consider any .357 to be an adequate substitute for a .30-30 to hunt deer or the like ordinarily, I'd feel more comfortable with it as my only option in a real pinch than I would a whole bunch of others.

For small game it's a real winner, especially where suburban sprawl has butted up against your favorite squirrel woods. The mild report isn't as likely to upset the soccer Moms or the other squirrels as much, and a 158 gr. LSWC with the right load is just as accurate and even more effective than a .22 HP out to 50 yds on edible critters.

For most 'realistic' SD/HD scenarios in an urban or suburban environment where a carbine might be called for the .357 has some distinct practical advantages compared to most 'real' rifles, IMO. Personally, unless the civil order has completely evaporated due to some cataclysmic event, I don't really anticipate having to repel hordes of looters or engage them at more than about fifty feet (our home is rather small;YMMV). In a more 'typical' home invasion/burglary or the like, 10 rds. of 125 gr. .357 that aren't as likely to exit the perp or my walls, blind or deafen me, coming from an 'antique-looking' little LA would seem to be just as effective and a whole lot less likely to get the local 'plaintiff's bar' revved-up to try and crucify me as a slavering Rambo than about anything else I can think of, off-hand.

Danny Creasy
January 15, 2007, 02:07 PM
I purchased my 1894C new just after they came out (Maybe 1979 or 80) at Woolco. "Woolco", can you believe that. I'm gettin old.

It has the MicroGroove barrel of course. So, bulk production caste reloads have never been its accuracy load. :D But, it would shoot .38 Special caste bullet reloads well enough to ring cowboy match steel plates (played that game until it became a beauty contest).

It groups really well with jacketed bullets and the heavier the better up to 180 grains. For deerhunting, I carried a 180 grain reload in it that would put five shots in an inch and a half at 50 yards. Problem is, I never got a shot at a deer on the few occasions I carried this little carbine hunting. I just about always preferred one of my scoped high-powered rifles for deer hunting. I have an 94 Winchester .30-30 set up with a William receiver sight. I must say that I would much prefer the .30-30 past 50 or 60 yards..

I shot it with the open sights for a couple of years and then picked up this nice little Lyman receiver sight at a B'ham gunshow (new in the box for $10 - what was that guy thinging) and put them on it. When I shot it in cowboy matches later, I reinstalled the semi buckhorn rear sight and would slide the Lyman sight out of its mount and be ready to go.

Now, I have the receiver sight back in and have driven out the open sight and put a dovetail slot filler in again. This is how she is gonna stay. Sighted in dead on at 50 with the 180 grain jacket HP reloads.

Every once in a while the gun banners start talking about a semi-auto ban. Well, if that gloomy day does come, I think this would make a pretty good little defensive carbine. Heck, it can even be fired one handed pretty well. We got a kick out of knocking a coffee can around once at 25 yards by just shooting it like a pistol with magnum loads.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/Marlin1894C-4.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/Marlin1894C-1.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/Marlin1894C-2.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/Marlin1894C-3.jpg

MrDig
January 15, 2007, 02:14 PM
I just bought a Marlin 1894c. I have not shot it yet. Puma, Rossi, and Winchester all top eject if I'm not mistaken. That is why I prefer the Marlin. It sends the brass to the side or away from the gun at an angle not up in my face.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245851
pics of the one I bought.

115grfmj
January 15, 2007, 03:19 PM
Period...


Buy a box and try it thru your chrony...like I've done. Check your own results,
and sorry.......the .357 can be loaded aproaching the 30-30 energies. With a larger diameter round, heavier too (180gr):neener: . While I agree that the 30-30 is superior....theres precious little you can do with it that you cant do with the .357.

Warbow
January 15, 2007, 03:40 PM
Even my 12" TC Contender in .30-30 has better ballistics, effective on deer to 200 yards. It makes as much energy at 100 yards with a 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip as my .357 carbine does at the muzzle shooting 14.5 grains of 2400 and a 158 grain Lee hard cast annealed gas checked bullet.

How many ft. pounds does the 150 gr. Nosler load have at 100 yards from your Contender? There are plenty of .357 carbine loads that have 1300-1400 ft. pounds at the muzzle...

B.D. Turner
January 15, 2007, 04:24 PM
I own a marlin 336 in 30-30 and a marlin 1894 in .44 magnum. I would like to have a marlin in .357 for plinking more than hunting. I would even take a .32 magnum for a plinker. The 30-30 will do more better than the .357 if it were down to one or the other. I never intend to ever be without a 30-30. I am not bashing the .357 as it is a great round but if push came to shove the 30-30 would win out.

MCgunner
January 15, 2007, 04:50 PM
How many ft. pounds does the 150 gr. Nosler load have at 100 yards from your Contender? There are plenty of .357 carbine loads that have 1300-1400 ft. pounds at the muzzle...

I haven't fired a load over MY chronograph that measures anywhere close to 1300 ft lbs. About 1200 is it and my gun has a 20 inch barrel. Do you have a chronograph you're basing these claims on or just advertising by some ammo maker? I'd like to test those Buffalo Bore loads just to see, but it's not that much of a priority that I'm going to pay that much for .357 ammo when I can reload 50 rounds for a buck and a half. LOL Most of the 158 grain factory stuff I've shot has been milder than my handload. I've loaded up a too hot load of 15.5 grains 2400 and also a rather too hot load of 14.5 grains AA#9 under a 180 grain XTP and not come close to Buffalo Bore's claims in the carbine, though in my 6.5" Blackhawk, the numbers are pretty close, which leads me to believe that Buffalo Bore's carbine ballistics are exaggerated, but like I say, I haven't tested 'em.

I shoot bullets I cast, so while the Marlin is a nice gun, I have avoided it. The little Rossi has been fun. One load I shoot is really neat, 2.3 grains bullseye in .38 brass with a 105 grain Lee SWC bullet shoots about 900 fps and mimics .22 LR for small game. It ain't as accurate as I'd like for squirrel hunting, but I've used handguns that were less and been successful. A .357 carbine is very versatile, but then, so is the revolvers in the caliber.

Warbow
January 15, 2007, 05:51 PM
I haven't fired a load over MY chronograph that measures anywhere close to 1300 ft lbs. About 1200 is it and my gun has a 20 inch barrel. Do you have a chronograph you're basing these claims on or just advertising by some ammo maker?

No. I don't have chronograph.

I don't know why you're so skeptical about a 1300+ ft. pound .357 rifle load. Jeff Quinn of Gublast.com tested (http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester-Ranger357.htm) BB's 180 gr. hardcast load, along with his 180 gr. XTP handload -- both exceed 1300 ft. pounds.

I'm not so cynical to believe that Buffalo Bore, Jeff Quinn plus everyone else who've shot BB's loads through a chronograph and handloaders who've made their own 1300+ loads are lying about it.

MCgunner
January 15, 2007, 06:09 PM
Well, I just know my experiences. I also know I wouldn't use the .357 carbine as a deer rifle over a good .30-30, either. I know the .30-30 does more damage, seen that, too. A good .30-30 load can push a 150 grain bullet out of a rifle barrel at 2400 fps. I've chronographed a Winchester 94. Like I say, most I've seen from my 20" .357 is about 1900 fps and I didn't like the warmth of the load, a little hot, showing some pressure signs (primer pockets lasted maybe 2 reloads).

Like I say, my Blackhawk tests right there with Buffalo Bore's claims, but their rifle claims are WAY over the top in my experience. If I ever get my hands one some Buffalo Bore, I will test it. Like those fellers in Missouri say, you're gonna haveta "show me". Meanwhile, I'll continue my deer hunting with either my Contender or my .308 Remington M7. Don't misunderstand, I like the .357 carbine, but I know its limitations where hunting is concerned. If you want a better hunting rifle, but the same gun, get it in .44 magnum, also a very fun and maybe even more versatile gun. The .44 CAN rival the .30-30 inside 100 yards. That said, for some reason, I am more enamored by the .357. :D

perpster
January 15, 2007, 06:24 PM
Nematocyst said:
In the last 24 hours, I've started considering a .357 handgun, probably something like a SW 686, SW 620 or a Ruger GP100. I'd prefer a 4" barrel, but am open to a 6". I'd like to use that revolver for both SD (in addition to the CCW 642 in .38) and possibly for short range deer hunting.

I've spent the evening reading threads on the .357, it's sufficiency for deer hunting, whether a 4" barrel would be sufficient (see this thread, which I'm considering reviving, for some surprising comments about the adequacy of a 4" .357 for deer), etc.

I like the idea of having only limited types of ammo to deal with. Depending on the outcome of this research, for me, that could be 12 ga, .22 LR and .357/.38 spl. (I'm considering selling a K9 and replacing it with a .357 mag revolver.)

Nemo, a few points:

I agree with KISS on the ammo types. Since you already have a .38 revolver and are eyeing a .357 revolver, a .357/.38 lever action makes much sense. If you don't want to part with the K9 get a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or Kel-Tec Sub 2000 folding carbine (though I'm not sure if they make one with K9 mag setup). That way you'll have 2 pistol/carbine combos of very obtainable (and relatively inexpensive and reloadable ammo).

With 12 ga, .22 LR, .38/.357 (and 9mm) you'll be very well equipped with minimal logistical headaches. There are some who claim 125 grain bullets disintegrate too easily when fired from the carbine but YMMV. I think 158 grain bullets would work well in handgun and carbine (and most fixed sight .38 and .357 revolvers are factory sighted for 158 grain).

From personal experience, those are pretty much my setups and I LOVE the Marlin 1894C. I haven't hunted deer with it, but I've heard from those who have that up to 100 yards it's a great deer gun. How often will you be shooting at deer from more than 100 yards in your neck of the woods?

wuchak
January 15, 2007, 06:31 PM
For some more info on the .357 you might enjoy this excellent article by Paco Kelly. He has some load and velocity data at the bottom.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

If you're not satisfied that the .357 out of a rifle is enough for deer and are leaning toward a 30-30 you might consider the .35 Remington instead. As a true rifle caliber it makes a nice companion to at .357 handgun for a reloader since you can use your handgun bullets for plinking loads and then move to LeveRevolution for some serious hunting range. I won't open up the 30-30 vs. .35 Rem debate that has been going on for 90 years. I just thought I'd mention that it's an excellent option for .357 companion.

Warbow
January 15, 2007, 06:48 PM
MCgunner, I understand. There's no doubt in my mind that premium and handloaded .30-30 will outperform premium and handloaded .357 rifle loads. I'm just saying there are some really nice loads for .357 rifles that can really scoot. If I had both, I'd take the .30-30 for hunting -- someday I will.

And to sort of steer back on topic... I've got a Marlin 1894 .357 Magnum. It's a great little carbine that shoulders quickly and is fairly light. The only downside for me so far are the semi-buckhorn sights -- I plan to put a nice aperture sight on it when I can afford it. As you can see in my photo I've painted the front sight bright red and part of the rear white to try and get some contrast between the two to speed up sighting a bit. It helped a little but I still can't wait for that aperture sight.

Click for larger image.
http://files.myopera.com/werbwerb/albums/160952/marlin_357thumb.jpg (http://files.myopera.com/werbwerb/albums/160952/marlin_357.jpg)

Nematocyst
January 15, 2007, 07:08 PM
...for your opinions.

This is an informative thread for me about a question I've had for a while, but couldn't find solid info on.

I'm learning a lot. Glad to see the thread re-invigorated.

Very busy day today for me, but I'm still reading with interest.
I'll add a couple of thoughts soon as I get some time.

Please continue...

Nem

wuchak
January 15, 2007, 08:08 PM
If you haven't already you might want to check out the 1894 section of http://www.marlinowners.com

Here's another link to a good .357 article. This one by Skeeter Skelton.
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=30

RKellogg
January 15, 2007, 08:17 PM
Is there any way to put a scope on one of those Marlin 1894 357 . And how far out can you shoot them . 100 yards about max ?

MrDig
January 15, 2007, 08:21 PM
Mine is drilled and tapped, although I can't see why I would put a scope on it. As previously stated the effective range of the round somewhat precludes shooting out past 100 yards.
I would prefer to put williams firesights on it, truth be told.

115grfmj
January 15, 2007, 08:37 PM
I was out in PA on business a couple of days ago and got a chance to stop by cabelas in hamburg. I picked up the Buffalo bore stuff again (180gr x1, and 158gr x1). I have hunted with this before (350lb or so florida hog) with good results...ie 65 yard shot 180gr BB broadside shot, thru and thru Hog.....took two steps DRT. Here's what I ran thru my chrony today.

180gr flat points, 5 shots 7 yards from muzzle.....(1860,1850,1855,1853,1855fps) whipping out the balistics software. Round has a B.C. of .185....take the Average 1854 that give a ME of 1369...doesnt cross the ME of handgun until it crosses the 175yd mark at 635ftlbs. Sight for 3" high at 100yds max PBR
(I.e 3" low) at 175yds.

Okay now for the 158gr Buffalo bore stuff. Again 5 shots 7 yards from muzzle....(2140,2143,2150,2139,2158)....average 2146. This round has a B.C. of .170....ME 1616,doesn't come down to the hangun ME until it also crosses 175 yrds. Sighted 3" high at 100yds, Max PBR 189 yrds (I.e 3" low)


Thats the data, and the 30-30 is a better performer, however, this cartridge rifle combination kills all out of porportion to it's size, and like I said there is precious little you can do with the 30-30 that can't also be done with the .357. It's is 150 yd deer cartridge.


Folks, those who sneer that it's just a pistol caliber, are missing the boat. It is
a completely, different animal out of a rifle. Of all the pistol calibers fired in rifles, the .44, and the .357 gain the most in velocity thanks to slow buring powders, and relatively large case volume.

MCgunner
January 15, 2007, 08:39 PM
Yeah, you could get a camp carbine to match your 9mm pistol. That would afford you cheaper ammo, too. But, you don't get much more out of a carbine length barrel with 9 or .45. I don't think ANYone will argue that a 9mm carbine is better on deer size game than a .357 magnum carbine. :D

The only downside for me so far are the semi-buckhorn sights -- I plan to put a nice aperture sight on it when I can afford it.

Dude, you will not BELIEVE how much better a ghost ring aperture is than those stock buckhorns. My buddy has a Lyman (I think, he got it from midway) on his .30-30 and I can shoot 2" 100 hard groups off the bench with that thing all day. I've always loved aperture sights as an alternative to a scope. It's THE way to go. ;)

perpster
January 15, 2007, 08:44 PM
+1 for aperture sights on these carbines. I have tried it both ways and aperature turns my 1894C into a tack driver vs. the open sights. The Marlins come factory drilled/tapped for scopes. I've also seen high-mount Weaverss used so you can use the scope or the irons. However, the rear sight is so high you can barely see the front sight. Put a peep on it!

Furncliff
January 15, 2007, 10:06 PM
I have a new to me old (1979) 1894c bought on Auction Arms a few weeks ago. What little I've shot it, I've really liked. Mine has the short round barrel and no checkering, no safety. Almost no recoil, the ladies in my family will like that, and the versatility of the 357/38 cal.. is a winner. I've been having eye problems and could not decide what I wanted... a receiver peep or red dot. I went with the red dot for now, have yet to sight it in. Millet and Bushnell both make small tube sights that don't look foolish on the gun.

ZeSpectre
January 15, 2007, 10:07 PM
I have an old Rossi (puma) 92 SRC. Love it. Can't mod it much because it's my primary cowboy action shooting gun but if I had the option I'd LOVE to put some firesights on it.

May still put a peepsight (Lyman) on the back though because the stock sights just plain suck.

My buddy has a Marlin. Excepting that his won't feed .38 specials, it's a great gun as well.

Nematocyst
January 16, 2007, 04:22 AM
MCgunner, I agree intuitively about the 9mm carbines. If I'm going to go with a carbine, I think I'd rather it be either .30 (which I'm leaning towards) or .357.

115, those are interesting data. 175 yds, though. Wow. Even the .30 seems a stretch for that distance. I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm a relative newbie when talking about these cartridges, and your data IS impressive. But 175 yds...Wow. That's compelling. My intuition resides more in Warbow's camp that the .30 would beat it out for deer. Still, I'm listening and learning.

Wuchak, I also hear you about the .35 being a good companion for the .357. My original 336 was in 336. (Sold it in a bout of financial desparation during grad school. :banghead: ) But I never thought about using .357 for "plinking" rnds (or even small game) in a .35. Interesting point.

Nem

chieftain
January 16, 2007, 08:42 AM
My 357 Marlin is the CP model.

16" barrel with compensator drillings. Essentially the 357 "guide" model. Oh yea, I put the XS sights ghost ring set up on it. WOW!

Lord, I love this rifle. Much better than my 30/30's.

It doesn't need the comp, but with full house 357, including BB, it don't slap you much.

With 38's it's like shooting a BB gun or air rifle, only quieter, well, almost.

My daughter loves it.

This is one that ain't going anywhere. Great little squirrel gun too.

By the way. I like pistol caliber carbines. I have a Marlin Camp carbine in 45 placed in a Choate stock. Ruger 9mm, Beretta Storm. Use to have one of the early Winchester 94's in 44 mag in the early 70's.

I find them fun.

But that little Marlin is the best of the lot, bar none. YMMV

Probably the gun I enjoy shooting most.

Go figure.

Fred

ScottsGT
January 16, 2007, 09:46 AM
Carbon 15,
I'm not sure where you are in SC, but if your near Columbia, drop by Shooters Choice in West Columbia. When I was looking for a "fun plinkin' levergun" I stopped by to look at the Marlin and the Uberti. I was wanting the 1866 Yellowboy, but thought a Marlin might make me happy too. They did not have the 1866, but they had the 1860 Henry, which is the same toggle link action as the '66. I did get to compare the Marlin to the Uberti, and I was then sold on the Uberti. Even though they did not have what I wanted, I was able to find it on Guns America. They were telling me that they could not get one for 6 to 8 weeks, so I went internet. Uberti cost a little more, but well worth it. BTW, mine is in .45LC, not .38 Special.

P. Plainsman
January 16, 2007, 10:11 AM
Aperture rear sights really make these little carbines fun and useful.

Seem to be two basic schools: the small-aperture versions, like the Williams model somebody had nice pics of above, are good for fine shooting at longer distances ("longer" by lever carbine standards, like 75-100 yds for most of us who aren't Paco Kelly or Terry Murbach).

Then there's the big ol' ghost ring apertures, such as the ones sold by XS Sight Systems. That's what I've got. Great for fast acquisition and shooting at 25-75 yards. Definitely the rear sight of choice for a defensive lever carbine.

Truly, these are fun and handy little guns. You will shoot up all your .357 ammo in the Marlin if you're not careful, leaving your poor revolvers stuck on a diet of .38 Special!

A lot of 1894C owners who don't handload seem to use the Federal American Eagle 158 gr JSP load as general plinking fodder. Good accuracy and (from what I'm told) good numbers. In a sixgun it's a feisty load. In the carbine, it feels like no big deal.

MikeS.
January 16, 2007, 11:22 AM
I currently have a Rossi lever gun in .357 mag. This is the 2nd one I've owned. The 1st was a Marlin 1894c that I gave to my best friend as a wedding/retirement present. He always drooled over it when we went shooting, which we did a lot.

The .357 lever guns are just a blast to shoot. Get one!

Wedge
January 16, 2007, 11:56 AM
I know that it isn't a .357, but I am also looking into getting a .45 Colt levergun. There is some compelling data on the performance of the .45 Colt lever action here: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

A quick summary of the article would be that due to the higher momentum of the heavier cartridge of the .45 Colt (.44 Magnum would be the same in this instance since the article specifically covered .45 Colt +P at or above .44 Magnum levels) that the higher momentum yields better results at a further distance than a .30-30; more penetration as that is more a function of momentum than of velocity.

What does that have to do with the .357? Well I would say that a .357 and a .30-30 would be about equal especially based on the data from 115grfmj, but for overall penetration I would want the heaviest bullet I could get and for that 158gr .357 load would be inferior to the 170gr. .30-30 load all other things being equal. Load the .357 up with a 170gr. and I see them being equal with a slight advantage (due to sectional density) to the .30-30 bullet.

In summary I don't see any disadvantge going with a .357 carbine over a .30-30 carbine. Ammo costs are a definite advantage to the .357, though to really maximize performance out of a rifle would probably require some handloading.

Sniper X
January 16, 2007, 12:01 PM
I traded my 30-30 carbine for a rifle in (1894 Winnchester) .357 mag. I did it for two reasons, one being I can shoot it in cass if I get inot it and the other being it is far cheaper to shoot a lot in .38spl than .30-30 even if you reload! So, I may get another SAA today in .357 mag so both can be in the same cartridge as I have a Uberti SAA in .45LC allready.

Wedge
January 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
That is the same reason I am looking for the .45 Colt vs. the .30-30. I already reload for it, I can do it for 11 to 14 cents a shot depending on how much powder and my Ruger can handle the magnum loads. Plus it is fun pretending to be a cowboy even though I don't do CASS, I still like the old west guns.

Either caliber is great, but if you are trying to consolidate calibers I would go with what you already have.

Sniper X
January 16, 2007, 12:13 PM
My feelings exactly, but it is cheaper all the way around for me to do .357 plus if I do try competition they almost all use .357 instead of 45lc for many reasons, the biggest one being accuracy due to lower recoil. I love the .357 1894, one of the two most fun guns I have ever owned.

de
January 16, 2007, 12:40 PM
I'm pretending to be an old man who grew up on leveractions, and is tired of all the new cartridges that do the same thing the old cartridges do, but cost more.:eek:
I like my 357 mag. Model 92 Winchester clone a lot, but I'm keeping my Model 94 Winchester 3030 that was bought new. It's successfully pretending to be 50 years old.:(
I have always wore boots and and hats because that's the way most home towners have always dressed around here. I suppose I could also pretend to be a cowboy but, I am specializing, and have gotten all the friends I grew up with interested too. Their all pretending to get old too, and are even into looking the part.:uhoh:
Now on the lighter side, the 357 mag picks up so much extra velocity in a rifle that inside a hundred yards it will not only do the job, but put the hunting back into hunting.;)

aspade
January 16, 2007, 12:48 PM
I've never thought .45 Colt in a lever gun was a good idea.

The .45 Colt case was designed with an 0.016" rim because the rim's only function at that time was to hold the case at the proper depth in a straight bored revolver cylinder.

Compare that with some cartridges designed for lever guns: the 44-40 with an 0.027" rim, 30-30 with 0.045", the .33 Winchester with 0.051", the .348 Winchester with 0.029".

Seems to me that a literally half size rim leaves you no margin for error. The least bit of dirt, extractor wear, offsize cases, etc. will make the extractor slip the rim and jam your gun.

Byron
January 16, 2007, 02:59 PM
I have had a Model 94 Trapper in 357 for many years. It is very reliable and accurate. I carried while hiking deep in the North Georgia mountains.I used Speer data out of their #10 manual with 158 grain bullets. The carbine is zeroed at 50 yards with open sights.Health has eliminated those hikes but I still have and shoot my 94.
Guns America may still list the 94 in 357.
Is Rossi still making the 92? Byron

chipp
January 21, 2007, 08:05 PM
I bought a Puma a couple years aggo. I always liked the way they looked.
It seamed to have thinner stock and fore grip. And the wood was Darker.
Yes, I made my purchase decided on looks alone. Picked 357 Because i have a few .38 .357 revolvers.
Didn't think much of it, and guess I never shot it. Bought an su16 and took both to the range. I had a blast with the Puma. Shoots .357 nice and 38s are swell for plinking and was accurate, dependable, and way faster then I ever Imagined. If i had shot it before, might have skipped the su16. Quess thats why it won the west. Its one of my favorite guns now.

goon
January 21, 2007, 10:33 PM
This thread is of interest to me as well since I have a 1894 cowboy on layaway right now. Out of a 24" barrel a .357 with fairly slow burning powder should stack up pretty well.
I agree that it isn't quite a .30-30 but then again, it isn't meant to be.
And keep in mind that the 38-40 and 44-40 are handgun rounds too. At one time the .44 rimfire was fired out of Henry rifles at game that we would want an '06 to hunt. They all worked well enough when they were what was available. Don't underestimate the .357.

Vairochana
January 23, 2007, 06:43 AM
I traded in a Marlin .30-30 which did not shoot well (kept the Winchester94) for a Rossi in .357.
Funny thing is in Australia where handguns are not common .357 and even .38spl is More expensive than .30-30

Sistema1927
January 23, 2007, 09:52 AM
Funny thing is in Australia where handguns are not common .357 and even .38spl is More expensive than .30-30

Nothing funny about it. When there is no market there is no supply, and consequently prices go up. I hate to think what a box of .38 Specials goes for down under.

Try to humor (or humour) me a moment. What does 30-30 cost for a 20 round box and .357 magnum and .38 Special cost for a 50 round box in Oz?

I can go to the local Wal-Mart and pick up any of the above for less than $10 US (12.67 AUD).

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