NEWS -- .223 REVOLVER


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Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 02:44 PM
Two minutes ago on my radio show, Taurus president, Bob Morrison, announced they will show a revolver chambered for the .223 at the SHOT Show next week.

10-inch barrel. Five shots. Scope mounts.

Whooee!

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.45FMJoe
December 31, 2006, 02:53 PM
Slick!

Say what you want about Taurus, they make quality firearms, have a lifetime guarantee and they are not afraid to take risks with new firearms.

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 02:55 PM
Wow! Also a MAGNESIUM revolver. Light, but not expensive like titanium!

.45FMJoe
December 31, 2006, 02:59 PM
MAGNESIUM! ;)



:D

Ohen Cepel
December 31, 2006, 03:00 PM
I do give them credit for trying new things. I think they have often pushed the other makers into getting off their butts!

Don't think I need a .223 revolver, but I still am glad to see that they made it.

.45FMJoe
December 31, 2006, 03:04 PM
I do give them credit for trying new things. I think they have often pushed the other makers into getting off their butts!

Don't think I need a .223 revolver, but I still am glad to see that they made it.

Exactly my point. I really need to get off my butt and buy more of their products to support them. Although, my dad just bought a PT-99 on Friday. :) Seriously though, they are one of the "big names" who really push the envelope and take chances. They also actually appreciate their civilian consumer base. Granted, that is probably all they really have but still...

JesseL
December 31, 2006, 03:06 PM
I'm curious how they're preventing cartridge setback binding up the cylinder, as has usually been the problem with high pressure bottleneck cartridges in revolvers.

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 03:08 PM
Bob also talked about the new OSS pistol (very nice) and a new line called the 800 series.

Ooops. Gotta go. Theme music is playing.

Outlaws
December 31, 2006, 03:08 PM
Is 10" enough to burn most of the powder?

El Tejon
December 31, 2006, 03:18 PM
Guntalk, please be so kind to tell Mr. Morrison that I love the new 4410. I purchased one with the 2.5" tube, blued--very fun weapon.

I shot the dickens out of it again today (Sunday, December 31st) just because it is so fun to shoot.:)

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 03:20 PM
>> Is 10" enough to burn most of the powder<<

Well, he did say that the muzzle flash is impressive!

TallPine
December 31, 2006, 03:45 PM
What is it for ....? :confused:

El Tejon
December 31, 2006, 03:49 PM
Tall, to sell!:p :D

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 03:53 PM
Just to have fun. Kinda like the Winchester lever action .410 shotgun. Goofy, and a bunch of fun!

We also are giving away youth NRA memberships on the show today. Just had a caller offer to pay for five of them! Getting youngsters to call in to ask for the membership and talk about shooting.

Geronimo45
December 31, 2006, 04:00 PM
"a MAGNESIUM revolver"
I seem to remember that magnesium filings burned pretty well... that would make for a VERY interesting YouTube video - a revolver catching itself on fire. :evil:

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 04:02 PM
If you want to listen in the last hour live, try www.kbnp.com

For the hour with Bob Morrison, tune in XM radio channel 166 at 5:00pm today (Sunday), or listen to the archive of the show by clicking on LISTEN at www.guntalk.com.

Manedwolf
December 31, 2006, 04:04 PM
Two minutes ago on my radio show, Taurus president, Bob Morrison, announced they will show a revolver chambered for the .223 at the SHOT Show next week. :eek: :D :evil:

I want.

Seriously, it's a good idea for a SHTF post-disaster (like Katrina) thing. If you've got a .223 rifle, why not also have a revolver with the same round on your hip, common ammo supply?

Legally, how are they getting around the fact that it's a handgun that fires AP rounds? Any surplus .223 is steel penetrator. Wouldn't ATF immediately point at this and call it a "cop killer"?

garrett1955
December 31, 2006, 04:09 PM
Magnesium metal and alloys are highly flammable in their pure form when molten, as a powder, or in ribbon form. Burning or molten magnesium metal reacts violently with water. Magnesium powder is an explosive hazard. One should wear safety glasses while working with magnesium. The bright white light (including ultraviolet) produced by burning magnesium can damage the eyes. Water should not be used to extinguish magnesium fires, because it can actually feed the fire, according to the reaction



Magnesium, in its purest form, can be compared to aluminium, and is strong and light, so it is used in several high volume part manufacturing applications, including automotive and truck components. Specialty, high-grade car wheels of magnesium alloy are called "mag wheels". In 1957 a Corvette SS, designed for racing, was constructed with magnesium body panels. Volkswagen has used magnesium in its engine components for many years. For a long time, Porsche used magnesium alloy for its engine blocks due to the weight advantage. There is renewed interest in magnesium engine blocks, as featured in the 2006 BMW 325i and 330i models. The BMW engine uses an aluminium alloy insert for the cylinder walls and cooling jackets surrounded by a high temperature magnesium alloy AJ62A



Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium



Can a metallurgist or someone who knows... explain upon the use of magnesium in a firearm???

NailGun
December 31, 2006, 04:24 PM
Can I get the Sarah Brady edition? :evil:

If they didn't care much for the 5.7, they will really come unglued over this...:D :D :D

Think I may take two....

SnWnMe
December 31, 2006, 04:27 PM
Well that's nice, next thing we know there will be bills calling for a ban of 223 ammo because it can be chambered in repeating handguns. The weapons of choice of gangbangers.

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 04:32 PM
Ahem. There are already semi-auto pistols firing .223 ammo.

Nothing new here other than that it's a revolver.

RoyJackson
December 31, 2006, 04:41 PM
"Is 10" enough to burn most of the powder?"

RRA manufactures both 7" and 10.5" barrels for their .223 pistols and uppers for SBR's, so I'd guess 10" is enough.

Avenger29
December 31, 2006, 04:41 PM
That will definitly be on my purchase list:D

Although magnesium is an interesting choice of materials

ArfinGreebly
December 31, 2006, 04:47 PM
Not even close.

You get muzzle flash from an 18-inch barrel. You don't burn it all until out somewhere near 22 or 24 inches.

For comparison, there's a review of the Ruger BLackhawk .30 Carbine single-action revolver either on Chuck Hawks or GunBlast.

The description of the LOUD report and BRIGHT muzzle flash should give you a clue what to expect from the .223 round under similar circumstances.

For a good approximation of the ballistics, go to Kel-tec's site and look at their diagram of the trajectory from the PLR-16 (.223 auto pistol).

This I gotta see!

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 04:54 PM
Don't forget cylinder gap flash, too!!

Whoooeeee!

ugaarguy
December 31, 2006, 05:02 PM
Mr. Gresham, did Mr. Morrison say if this beast will have a flash supressor, or at least have bbl threads for one? I don't know how effective it would be with the bbl/cylinder gap, but I would think that it would still help. Either way I want one. :evil:

Thanks for all the updates keeping us informed of the gun industry goings on.

Guntalk
December 31, 2006, 05:04 PM
I think this sucker oughta come with WHEELS and Nomex gloves.

I love the idea.

Note, the .223 revolver is not made of magnesium. That's the small .38.

He said they have some other cool stuff, but wouldn't tell us on the air what it is.

Look for new guns from Beretta, Ruger, . . . well, everyone. Lots of competition, and we are the winners.

I'll be broadcasting live from the SHOT Show on January 14. Should be fun.

gbran
December 31, 2006, 06:17 PM
Say Tom, the SHOT Show is my highlight every year. I anxiously await something new and often buy something that was debuted there.

When you go, tell someone there I desparately want a med to small frame 5 or 6 inch revolver with integral scope base in 17Mach2. Something like the Taurus 94 series or a J frame. I'd even settle for a Ruger Single Six Hunter model. 17HMR's are aplenty, but 17m2's are scarce.

BTW, great show. I listen every chance I get.

wdlsguy
December 31, 2006, 06:27 PM
Is 10" enough to burn most of the powder?

http://www.bushmaster.com/images/faqchart.gif

mp510
December 31, 2006, 07:45 PM
Legally, how are they getting around the fact that it's a handgun that fires AP rounds? Any surplus .223 is steel penetrator. Wouldn't ATF immediately point at this and call it a "cop killer"?
ATF has already determined that SS109/ M855 is not an AP round, and we should not forget that there are already .223 handguns- several based on AR platforms, the Keltec, and and I'm pretty sure there's a .223 TC barrel as well.

On their .30 carbine, Taurus used clips (star or moon, I forget which), which IIRC helped solve the problem of cases backing out and binding up the weapon that other revolvers have faced, when chambered for rimless rounds.

Fly320s
December 31, 2006, 10:22 PM
I doubt that the revolver will be pure magnesium. It's probably going to be just a pinch of magnesium in the steel, much like the titanium and scandium guns from S&W.

Dave R
December 31, 2006, 10:31 PM
What's it for? I would use it for varmit hunting. With a scope, and a steady hold, no reason why it wouldn't do well for varmits.

kid_couteau
December 31, 2006, 10:56 PM
You guys are gonna think I am insane but I want one with a 4" barrel

Packable and cool

Shoots the same ammo as my AR

Can download to 22 mag specs for game

Oh yeah Mr Taurus please do it in 4"

Kid

ilcylic
December 31, 2006, 11:03 PM
They could do something like those Nagant pistols that fed the front half of the case into the barrel with the heavily cammed cylinder, to avoid the gap flash. Or even have just a little nipple that feeds into the back of the barrel, with the entire chamber inside the cylinder.

brentwal
January 1, 2007, 12:35 AM
I'd like to see the .30 carbine wheelgun back in production.

MikeG
January 1, 2007, 12:40 AM
Taurus is great for innovation. The .223 revolver could be fun for prairie dogs.:D And I'm eager to see what other new goodies they've got.

The wife has a Taurus 617Ti (spectrum blue) loaded with Speer 135GDHP short barrel .357s. Very nice revolver.

chipp
January 1, 2007, 12:51 AM
if you close enough the ball of fire might be deadly. i was shooting me su16c yesterday. 16" barrel. With federel ammo there was a massive ball of flame
(from my point of view)) I might have to get one though. anyone know the price?

gbran
January 1, 2007, 12:51 AM
Taurus still shows a Raging 30 DA revolver on their website and Ruger still shows a Blackhawk in 30 carbine.

Wes Janson
January 1, 2007, 01:45 AM
Most definitely a melee weapon...the bullet is merely a fortuitous bonus effect to the deadly flamethrower itself.

Zen21Tao
January 1, 2007, 01:49 AM
I'll take a 2" snub nose model please. :neener:

gunsmith
January 1, 2007, 04:45 AM
Ahh this is great!
The Brady Bunch is gonna flip....I love it!

Carbon_15
January 1, 2007, 08:31 AM
How about a 7.62x39 to follow?

The Lone Haranguer
January 1, 2007, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Guntalk:
Don't forget cylinder gap flash, too!!

It would be interesting to see how they get around forcing cone and topstrap erosion, as well as bottlenecked/tapered case setback. Perhaps they have the latter figured out, as they have offered the .22 Hornet and .218 Bee in revolvers for some time.

Zero_DgZ
January 1, 2007, 10:31 AM
Legally, how are they getting around the fact that it's a handgun that fires AP rounds? Any surplus .223 is steel penetrator. Wouldn't ATF immediately point at this and call it a "cop killer"?

For a wheelgun with a ten inch barrel...? You can already buy a Kel Tec PLR-16 and have a high capacity, assault cop killer. (Oooh, scary!) I think that'll be first on the chopping block, not a revolver of Shaft proportions.

The Deer Hunter
January 1, 2007, 10:38 AM
pics....

Wesson Smith
January 1, 2007, 10:45 AM
I'm guessing this .223 revolver is gonna be a bitch to clean? :confused:

AirForceShooter
January 1, 2007, 10:49 AM
Finally:
somebody is going to make a gun to match the cartridge.
A .223 wheelie, how nice. Might be fun.

AFS

klover
January 1, 2007, 10:49 AM
+1, Carbon 15 :rolleyes:

GEM
January 1, 2007, 01:26 PM
How does this relate to that AR pistol in 7.62x39 that Olympic Arms came forward with and then subsequent brouhaha about Chinese ammo?

I vaguely remember this and the curses hurl at Olympic for this?

I do this a Sc snubby would be funny.

chipp
January 1, 2007, 01:57 PM
I was told you need a special license for the kel tec pistol. I'm guessing not for a revolver??

Manedwolf
January 1, 2007, 02:03 PM
I think if you intend to carry this one as a CCW, you're required to have your own themesong first.

Waitone
January 1, 2007, 02:30 PM
Ted Kennedy will go into Chevas Regal Vapor Lock.

Imagine in one evil configuration an armor piercing, cop-killing, kitty stomping, ground assault pistol AND and air-fuel projector unit. :evil:

AdamXBT
January 1, 2007, 02:51 PM
.223!!! IWish One Of Them...But...$$$$?

Zero_DgZ
January 1, 2007, 03:10 PM
Chipp: Here in PA the Kel Tec PLR is sold as a regular old pistol. I imaigne this will be, too.

wdlsguy
January 1, 2007, 03:15 PM
I was told you need a special license for the kel tec pistol.
The PLR-16 (http://www.kel-tec.com/plr16.html) should be treated the same as any other pistol.

The SU-16D (http://www.kel-tec.com/su16d.html) is a short-barreled rifle, so it requires NFA paperwork and a $200 transfer tax to acquire.

Geronimo45
January 1, 2007, 03:28 PM
"I was told you need a special license for the kel tec pistol" If your state has 'assault weapons' laws on the book, maybe you would. I don't think the're Cali legal by virtue of the mag in front of the trigger guard. Other states may ban/regulate it on those grounds, too. As far as the ATF is concerned, the PLR-16 is the same as a Walther PPK. It's just another handgun.

MBane666
January 1, 2007, 04:09 PM
The thing i Like best about Brother Bob M. is his willingness to try new things. Yes, Taurus has misses, but darn, they seem to have a great time cranking these things out.

I LOVE the 4410...I believe it is the single best anti-carjacking utility ever made. I routinely carry a Total Titanium .38 J-frame size as my pocket gun and have for years...one noted gunwriter and friend of mine found the little bitty I-framed size snubby to be the single most accurate snubby he'd ever tested...he bought it immediately.

My Gaucho .45 Colt revolver has been a cowboy workhorse...I only wish Brother Bob would cave in and make me a .44 Special version!

The 1911 is nothing short of amazing...if you haven't tried one, run don't walk to your nearest gun store.

I'm going to order a .30 Carbine revolver to go with my Hamilton Bowen custom Blackhawk in that caliber (and my Thompson M1 Carbine) I LIKE muzzle flash! So there.

And yes, I'll place my order for the .223 revolver at SHOT!!!

Thanks, Bob...

Michael B

Rumpled
January 1, 2007, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure the Keltec pistol is the same as a PPK to the ATF.
Would it be importable under "sporting purposes"?
If so, then yes.

As far as CA, the Keltec has not been submitted for "safe" testing and does have the magazine outside of the grip = bad juju. Also, to be approved for 2007 it would need a magazine disconnect AND a chamber loaded indicator.
(I don't know if it is so equipped)

Geronimo45
January 1, 2007, 05:06 PM
"I'm not sure the Keltec pistol is the same as a PPK to the ATF.
Would it be importable under "sporting purposes"?"
You're right on that... I was meaning that, once the thing is in country (Kel-Tecs are, I think, made in America) that the ATF doesn't regulate them more than a PPK. I stand corrected.

usmccpl
January 1, 2007, 05:56 PM
MAGNESIUM.? Why? Are they trying to get one to set itself on fire. Ive seen an electrical arc set off solid magnesium aluminum alloy.

chipp
January 1, 2007, 10:16 PM
I doubt its solid magnesium. That would be a big problem (unless you actually wanted the gun to disintegrate after you shot it). I'm pretty sure once its mixed it won't light. Where is a chemist when you need one?

Gewehr98
January 1, 2007, 10:30 PM
Legally, how are they getting around the fact that it's a handgun that fires AP rounds? Any surplus .223 is steel penetrator. Wouldn't ATF immediately point at this and call it a "cop killer"?


Ask the folks at Thompson Contender, Olympic Arms, and Professional Ordnance, among others. ;)

Magnesium, eh?

Good survival gun. Pack a rough file along with the gun, scrape a few shavings off the revolver into some kindling, and off ya go!

(Remembering a VW roadside car-be-que burning intensely with that nice magnesium fuel some years ago...)

rkh
January 2, 2007, 02:48 AM
Why would one want such a revolver?

It would be like an unwieldy and heavy recoiling .22LR that blinds and deafens the shooter.


Rifle calibers need rifle-length barrels, and 10" isn't adequate for .223. :uhoh:

JesseL
January 2, 2007, 10:31 AM
Why would one want such a revolver?

It would be like an unwieldy and heavy recoiling .22LR that blinds and deafens the shooter.


Rifle calibers need rifle-length barrels, and 10" isn't adequate for .223.

A lot of folks at Olympic Arms (http://olyarms.com/?rootView=browse&view=cat&ids=arpistol-s), Bushmaster (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/), Thompson/Center, and Kel-Tec (http://www.kel-tec.com/plr16.html) would disagree with you.

rkh
January 2, 2007, 09:05 PM
A lot of folks at Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, Thompson/Center, and Kel-Tec would disagree with you.


Which of my claims would those manufacturers disagree with? The harsh recoil? the blinding/deafening muzzle blast? The .22LR-like terminal ballistics?
:scrutiny:

I'm sure that the folks at IMI would also disagree with my contention that the Desert Eagle is a ridiculous gimmick, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Pistols chambered in 223 are neat toys, but aren't really practical for anything.

Guntalk
January 2, 2007, 09:18 PM
Define "practical."

Guntalk
January 2, 2007, 09:24 PM
>>Rifle calibers need rifle-length barrels<<

Apparently not.

>> .22LR-like terminal ballistics<<

Not hardly. Think M4.

rkh
January 2, 2007, 09:31 PM
Think M4.


Exactly. The ~14.5" m4 is an outgrowth of the unsatisfactory 10" Colt Commando.

Geno
January 2, 2007, 09:33 PM
Make mine a Bushmaster Carbon 15, model 21, with a 100-round rotary magazine.

Doc2005

chipp
January 5, 2007, 10:12 PM
<Why would One want this revolver?>

Why not?

By now I have a practical gun for any Need I might have.
(I'm sure alot of poeple are in the same boat) Why stick to practical ?

chipp
January 5, 2007, 10:16 PM
??

seeker_two
January 6, 2007, 09:22 AM
I don't know about a large-frame .223....

...but a medium-frame revolver in that 5.7 FN round could catch my interest as a packable woods-walking gun that gives .22Mag/.22Hornet RIFLE ballistics in a 4" barrel... :cool:

And I'm still waiting for Taurus to legitimize the .41 Taurus Special for its snubbys... :(

Seven For Sure
January 6, 2007, 09:24 AM
They had three 10mm revolvers at last years show. Not one has made it to the shops yet.

Shear_stress
January 6, 2007, 09:49 AM
Exactly. The ~14.5" m4 is an outgrowth of the unsatisfactory 10" Colt Commando.

My understanding is that the problems with the 10" barrel had more to do with cycling the Stoner action than terminal ballistics. Sigarms currently offers the SG552 to the law enforcement market with an 8 or 9" barrel.

alucard0822
January 6, 2007, 11:28 AM
I need one, would be cool if they made one on the gaucho single action frame, would need a pair in polished stainless with ivory grips

alucard0822
January 6, 2007, 11:45 AM
magnum research also makes th BFR a single action that can be had in 30-30 45-70 or several more "mundane" calibers I shot one about a year ago and it's awesome, kicks less in 45-70 than most 45LC's ive fired, it's BIG, but well made and not too roger rabbit lookinghttp://www.magnumresearch.com/Browse.asp?Category=BFR:Revolvers

The Real Hawkeye
January 6, 2007, 11:47 AM
Not surprising. They used to offer a revolver in .218 Bea, which is just a fraction of an inch shorter, and nearly as powerful as a .223 Remington.

countryrebel
January 6, 2007, 12:30 PM
Oh great, now I have to come up with more cash for my 6th taurus:rolleyes:
I was just thinking last month how great a 10" 223 revolver would be and almost bought a 10" encore and thought I better wait till shot show,glad I did:) I just love the people that bash a good idea into the ground:fire: almost kinda sound anti-gun? If you do not like the idea dont buy it!Me and my other PRO-GUN buddies will enjoy it:neener:

Carbon_15
January 6, 2007, 04:36 PM
Heck, the H&K 53 has an 8inch barrel


the blast coming out of the cylinder gap is going to be impressive

Stiletto Null
January 7, 2007, 01:13 AM
Isn't .454 Casull already in the 60kpsi range? I doubt .223 would be any worse in terms of flame cutting.

ugaarguy
January 7, 2007, 12:04 PM
Isn't .454 Casull already in the 60kpsi range? I doubt .223 would be any worse in terms of flame cutting.
I believe it's the 460 XVR that operates at that pressure. That revolver also has some very precise fitting and polishing at the breech end of the bbl to help avoid flame cutting. I'm sure Taurus has already dealt with this, and presumably found a solution since a company exec announced it on a radio show. Regardless, you make a great point - the capability to deal with high pressure, high temp cartridges in a wheel gun is already here. I'll be interested to see how the market responds to this new wheelgun.

Stiletto Null
January 7, 2007, 12:10 PM
For that matter, if they feel like gimping their way around gap blast flame cutting issues, they could just design in some nonstructural sacrificial material. Ablative heatshield. Doesn't S&W (sort of) do this already?

chipp
January 7, 2007, 03:31 PM
<Chipp: Here in PA the Kel Tec PLR is sold as a regular old pistol. I imaigne this will be, too.>

Zero dgz, Before I bought My su16c I was told at a gun shop and the class 2 dealer I bought it from that I had to fill out other paperwork to buy the su16D 9 or 12 inch. I live in Pa. Do you know a shop that sells them as a pistol?

ugaarguy
January 7, 2007, 04:36 PM
Before I bought My su16c I was told at a gun shop and the class 2 dealer I bought it from that I had to fill out other paperwork to buy the su16D 9 or 12 inch. I live in Pa. Do you know a shop that sells them as a pistol?
The SU16D has a buttstock, and a bbl. under 16". Therefor, it is a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) under the NFA. The PLR 16 has no buttstock so it's a pistol.

chipp
January 7, 2007, 08:39 PM
Thanks, my mistake. I think I have halfheimers desease. I forget half of everything. I'm guessing I wanted the the stock

ithacalover
January 8, 2007, 08:21 PM
There's no point for guns like that except for a novelty. They're huge, the rifle cartriges are robbed of useful velocity, and muzzle blast can be seen from space. All we need is a snubbie in .308 Winchester to protect the shooter from roving deer in a fashionable urban environment.

If you want to talk pointless, actually, look at Taurus' new .17 HMR and
.17M2 snubbie's. It's useless as the flat-shooting long distance rinfire it was designed to be, and even more useless as a self defence load. Whay does Taurus make these guns, just so they can say they do? My apologies if anyone owns one. Or drives a Taurus.

countryrebel
January 9, 2007, 12:43 PM
I think you are wrong,I have many reasons for myself to own one of these pistols as do a lot of people and I can tell you it would not be a novelty,it is a tool for doing the job that I need it for.There is no point in YOU owning this so called novelty so DONT BUY IT.At least taurus has the balls to come out with some new ideas for us guys that want more guns on the market,unlike the guys that dont see a point in it so they think there should be less guns,ANTI-GUN? because thats what it sounds like to me.

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