[sm]

I got a knife *sigh* finally!!
<elbow to ribs>

Basically I have been a Rebel, something I have a knack for doing really well.
Lady friend and I have been having this running joke, razzing and teasing about me and my "set in his ways" and "pigheadedness".

Actually she agrees with me. Deal is, folks teach folks how to treat them, and I, being unhappy with manufactures and all...have been rebelling.

My deal is too much of the old ways , correct basic fundamentals and such, are not being passed on. These things were passed to me, therefore I intend to pass forward these things passed to me. I do not care what the latest marketing hype, fad, trend or whatever is - if it does not do what I and my Mentors believe in - I ain't doing it. A knife is supposed to cut.

Gimme a OLDer K frame, Bone stock Gov't model of 1911, Old Hickory Kitchen knife, Cast Iron cookware...you get the idea.

I have raised nineteen kinds of fits on knives. Truth is , If I am attacked by mutant ninja zombies, screw the knife, I am going for 12 gauge slugs.

One handed opening. Gee Willikers, I hate to break the news to folks , but even when I was a brat, born in mid Fifties, Everybody Knew [tm]....
y'all know what a kitchen match is? Yeah, stick one inside down onto back spring and the point is raised up just a tad and one can zip that puppy out in a jiffy.

Folks did this before I was born. Folks that came back from Wars and lost an arm and could not afford a "One Arm Jack knife" did this to a regular old pocket knife so they could open and close one handed.

This ain't rocket science folks.

I am fed up with "collector's knives" that will not cut butter. Collecting is fine and dandy, I once did...
Still a knife is a tool and if the damn knife won't cut - what good is it?

Me, being me I want a knife that is 1095, Chrome Vanadium or similar, that takes on Patina. See I like blue guns too. Bluing in controlled rust essentially. Patina on a knife blade is controlled rust, it protects the durn thing.

I want a knife that takes and holds and edge, and is easy to touch up. I like Norton India stones, I used them with carbon / tool steel hand tools for too many years. They work.

It took me years to accept Ceramic V sticks. I grew up using a Whetstone, a file, steel, leather, to keep a working knife sharp. I mean out in the boonies for 7 days I do not want a funky knife that will not cut and it takes a degree in engineering to use a sharpener that requires assembly.

Anywho...y'all can have malls and box stores, give me Feed/ Seed / Farm/ Ranch / Tractor store. They have real stuff that is proven and works as it has for a 100 yrs or more.

Lady friend been fussing ( running joke) about my Rebel ways. Every time we we went in , she nudged me toward the Case knife display. Every time I stuck a knife in her hand ( she thinking finally he is going to buy a knife") I did not - instead she bought one. :p

I "are" good. I really did give an Eskimo a ice cold bottle of water once.

For a bit now she has been loaning me various ones ( my fault she bought) - and I give one back and play with another one she has used after getting home with it.
"Damn Men!!" ( she said to share that sentiment, she is cracking up laughing btw).

New Years day and I have played with all the knives. Shared stories about various ones, and what I have used since I was a brat.

See I favor Trappers, Yellow handled Case knives with Chrome Vanadium blades. Sodbuster Jr. Trapper, Trapper Jr, and Bare Head Trapper my favorites. Peanuts are fine and Stockman's are okay.
I am pissed they do not make a knife with carbon blades - main blade, spey and all.

Until today I found this one :
Böker® Cinch® Rancher
Carbon Steel, main blade, spey and awl. Damn! At least somebody knows what a working knife is about!
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_t...h_trapper.html

Lady friend is really really really interested in this knife *grin* give me time, I betcha "oomph!" ( seems *someone's elbow likes my side ).

I stuck a Bare Head Trapper in Steve's back pocket and did the "head tilt and nod" as he calls it.
It means he is going to carry this thing and he don't - and I will check to see if he does - if he does not- I am going to hurt him.

This one : Barehead Slimline Trapper #031 - 31048 CV
http://www.wrcase.com/knives/pocket_knives/browsefolding2.php?Family='Yellow%20Handle'&Folding='1'&Item='031'

This rebel is sitting here using this knife one handed and it does not have a match stick in it. Sitting down and getting it out, opening it, stealing a piece of cheese, closing it, and back in his pocket one handed! ( he is going to show me how he does this...
- Lady friend


Well...I like these Case CV blades and Yellow handles, they work and are proven by me over too many years, add others I know and their years of use.

Oh I know it does not have multiple blades, and all - still this one is light, easy to tote and proven by me and others to work. Heck it was the only knife I had for days and nights on a survival dealie for few times. I have done the same with the two blade Trapper, Trapper Jr, and Sodbuster Jr. ....and in the old days when Camillus and Shrade-Walden (later Shrade) Betram (Hen & Rooster) Queen were doing carbon (1095 and similar steels)

Whittling is something I have been doing, oh sure I know a "whittling knife" is better, still Lady friend and I made fuzzies for a fire , and carved a bar of Ivory soap to make a boat....these float being Ivory soap.

Now to find the Norton pocket size India Stones...

Thanks Babe
You are welcome Babe



S

[JohnKSa]

How in the heck can that be a knife?

It doesn't have a pocket clip, a locking blade, a lanyard hole, carbon fiber handles, hollow grind blade, blood grooves or a special one-handed-opening-thingy. I'll bet it's not made from japanese steel and didn't even come with a video showin' some hotshot usin' it to cut big pieces of meat hanging from a string!

I think ya been cheated! :D

[Valkman]

Son, if'n it ain't black coated and has 1000ppm titanium/vanadium added to the steel, it ain't tacticool! Yep, and if it didn't come with a DVD you really got taken. :D

I still take good carbon steel over anything. I found real quick making knives that I can get them way sharper than SS ones. Scary sharp and holds an edge - yep we better get rid of that! :)

In 10 days we're moving from this 'hole to Pahrump, which has a Feed Store with gun store in the back. Can't wait!

[sm]

Y'all just jealous is all :D

Shaving thin ham , 'mater's scratch biscuits, my famous scrambled eggs , fresh "squoze" orange juice. made using a glass juicer.

One is better aware if'n one eats right - defensive trick :)

Other Defensive Tricks include:

Motel/ Hotel and making a door stop out of a bar of soap, or stick from out in parking lot. Whittle/ Carve ( using a knife that will cut mind you) and shove under door. Added Security just in case someone "forgot" to return the room key or change the code on the electronic one at the desk.
[And you forgot to bring a door stop].

Sharpen a "real" No. 2 pencil . Don't make me explain what a No. 2 pencil is for in defensive use.

Survival:

Here ya go, let us say you have oranges or grapefruit. Eggs from a hen house, but how you gonna cook 'em ?
No problem!
Cut orange/ grapefruit in half and eat the fruit leaving rinds intact.
You made a fire using closed Knife, using spine to hit a magnesium and throw a huge spark to make that fire ( carbon steel does this real well!)

Crack eggs into each half of a rind, set onto coals and cook eggs in the rind. :)
Biscuits, well if'n you have box of Bis-Quick, water, make biscuits, slap onto a rock facing coals and they will bake, just slice off rock , and eat.

Handy , light weight sharpener:
Emery board. Carbon Steel don't take much and let us say you need more touching up than stropping on jeans, or the leather belt you are wearing, no ceramic coffee cups handy to use the bottom of...
Emery Board works great! These new larger ones, spongy feeling with a different grit each side are more versatile and don't break near as easy.
Like using sandpaper on a mouse pad.


Practical , Persistent, Pig-headed me...;)

[Brian Williams]

I'm sitting here with a Bare headed trapper from Old-Timer with brown Delrin scales in my back pocket, a SAK tinker in my left front pocket and a brand spanking new Case Canoe in my right front pocket. The tinker is a utility knife, with blades, screwdrivers, and can-opener. The Trapper is my working knife, it does a great job with that Carbon blade, a touch on my belt will bring that edge right back. The Case Canoe is my Show knife but it has Carbon blades, Real pretty till I need to cut something then does its work well. Looking for a good Peanut and a nice Old-Timer Sharpfinger(made in USA)

[sm]

Sharpfinger, damn good knife!

Camillus shows one on their online store being carbon steel. In fact they may actually have been the folks making them for Shrade ( not sure, would not surprise me though).
Better hurry, as Camillus is having problems. Call Camillus to make sure it is carbon, some of the last of the Shrade line right before Taylor Cutlery bought them and went to China made, was Shrade + - meaning steel , not carbon.
Look at the Grandpa line too.

Sharpfinger: http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?camillus/index.shtml~main

Grandpa line: ( look familar?) -
http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?camillus/index.shtml~main
Scroll down a bit - and for instance-
http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?camillus/index.shtml~main

[DogBonz]

OK, I get your point, but some improvements are actually improvements. Sure things do, and are, carried to their extremes, often in the name of marketing, but some of those things are good. Sure, a Buck folding hunter or a Case lock back will do the same thing as any other knife. But I’ll never give up my Benchmade CQC7. That thing is, IMHO, the best pocket knife ever made. I have carried one almost every day for almost ten years, and I love that thing. Say what you want, but having a one handed knife that is always in the same place, and locks solid is a blessing.

PS, I love blued guns too.

[sm]

I have nothing against "improvements" - what I do have a problem with is folks:
buying skill and targets.

Folks not learning the correct basic fundamentals.

Folks not being raised right, not being parented, not having adults passing forward what it RIGHT.

We have folks not being parented, or no adults, or refuse to listen - instead all they know is TeeVee , Movie, Video Game - computer enhanced crap.

Had one neighbor, second year in college, and the power was out. Just a whining and carrying on she was hungry, and knocked on my door with a can of tuna fish. Snow/ ice and not really safe to get out. I handed her a cup of coffee :scrutiny: and a hand held can opener, and she honest to goodness did not know how to work it.

<light bulb> "How did you make coffee?" :p

Just fired up the grill, made coffee in a steel camp percolator and she stood on my balcony as I fixed bacon , eggs toast more coffee and later on I cooked other food, and pot of tea.
Power came on 3 hours later.

Set this lady up with some other ladies that knew how to camp, hike, shoot, use a knife and whatnot. Her parents did not have time for her - keeping up with the Jones.
She made straight A's in school...she wanted street smarts, and real world smarts.
Her first real knife was a Old Hickory and then later a Old Timer Stockman.

Her first gun - Used Police trade in Model 10, later a single shot .22 rifle to learn correct basic fundamentals, and then later a pump shotgun.

She learned about cast iron cookware too...

So excited when she went camping and cooked on a campfire for the first time...

Pass this stuff forward I say...

[DogBonz]

Folks not learning the correct basic fundamentals.

This IS a major problem.

Buying skill?

I assume that you are talikin about tacti-cool, not paying for instruction. In this regard, I agree, but I do love the trend. I can’t even tell you how much good stuff I got on the cheap from someone who drops a lot of cash on something and then the next coolest thing comes out and the thing that they have is no good any more. Make friends with these people, they are good to know.

[Valkman]

Nothing wrong with much of the newer stuff - I have 2 Striders and 2 Emersons myself. There just something about old-time carbon steel that gets us going. :)

My buddy lucked out when I became a knifemaker - all them knives gotta go somewhere! :p

[Brian Williams]

Looking at a Sharpfinger on Fleabay now, at $30 for an old Carbon steel. I am going to miss a stag handled Peanut single blade with a Bale at $81 right now.

[JTW Jr.]

well said , pass it forward . Even though I consider myself a mostly modern bladesteel kind of guy , I do like 1095 a lot , I like old cars , old guns and old tools. There are some modern stuff that I do like but a lot that i dont.

your posts make for some great reading.

[sm]

Lady friend and I walked the property today. It started out cool, then warmed up nice.
Yes I had my Barehead Trapper, and yes she checked to make sure I did.

I toted an old single shot .410, she toted a single shot 28ga. Just for the heck of it, snagged a empty bleach bottle, tied a pc of cord to bottle and the other end to a small tree on the bank of a farm pond.

Braided fishing line, hook and lead sinker - chicken liver for bait, tossed this out, and let it be while we walked the property and watched the dawg. Imagined we shot - just pulled up with a empty gun and whisper bang...

Piddled and later checked on the pond and the bleach bottle just a dancing. Pulled in about a 4# catfish.
Found a nail and nailed it to a tree with a rock. Used my new knife to slice around , and used pliers to skin.

Fillet it using the new Trapper, and tossed remains back into pond.
Nice size fillets, and knife just sliced so easy and fine...and stayed sharp.

Washed and dried my Trapper, applied a bit oil to joint. Took a plain piece of cardboard and stropped it. Now even more razor sharp!

Plain cardboard mind you , nothing on it, and showed her how to do this on hers.

Simple works.

s

[Dave McCracken]

There's a passel of good knives here, including WW's Sabatier and Henkels kitchen knives.

Among mine are a couple Pumas, a few Bucks, some Gerbers, a Camillus K-Bar that followed me home from SEA, and some Cold Steels. The Recon Tanto is a marvelous heavy duty knife and the Voyager in my pocket is goodnsharp. There's a Helle that has a laminated steel blade that does dressing duties. After I dressed 5 deer or so with it, i wimped out and touched up the blade.

Some old family knives are here also.

All these vary from goodnsharp to scary.

On the scary end are two of the family knives.One is a small Western two blade penknife that was my Grandfather's. It's thinned down a little from honing and keeps a fine edge on both blades. Grampop died in 1953.

The other was Pop's hunting and dressing out knife. It's a Case, made in the early 50s, with a chromed 6" blade and a handle made from leather washers. Last I looked, Case still offered it. The steel's a little soft, but nothing here gets as sharp.

I find it interesting that 50 years of technology hasn't given us better knives, just more rust resistant ones.

[JohnKSa]

I find it interesting that 50 years of technology hasn't given us better knives, just more rust resistant ones.There's some food for thought. I don't agree 100%, but I think that there's a good bit of truth there.

[Dave McCracken]

John,knives are simple tools. One part cuts, another enables one to use the tool without bleeding most of the time.

Most of the innovations in knives in the last half century boil down to gimmickery or refinements of older stuff.

Serrations are quite old, older than our own species. Look at a handax crafted by Homo Habilis a half million years gone by,or an Ishi point that is both art and tool.

Tanto points date from a thousand years back, and serve less well on stuff not armored than a clip point.

One hand opening and lockblade knives are more of the same ol' same ol'. I will grant that not many lockblades were around before the Buck 110, but they existed.

I grant Zytel handles are new, some of the steels are also, but how crucial to advancement are they?

[JTW Jr.]

I think the knives are much stronger now as compared to 50 years ago , especially in folders. Some may not embrace the new tech stuff , some may not like it , it may not appeal to some , but to say the folding knife hasnt been improved in 50 years is false. While I do like the older traditional stuff , when I really need something to lock up , give me a framelock or axis lock ( that is if it cant be a fixed blade.)

[XDKingslayer]

sm, while I love my non-stick cookware and my polymer pistols, I have to agree with you on today's knives. I'm tired of belt clips and half serrated blades and crappy stainless steel blades that don't hold an edge.

Like you, I was raised on a whetstone not ceramic or diamond doohickeys with guides to ensure you have the right blade angle. I'm sorry, different blades with different steel and different uses need different angles.

The only knife that I have bought in the past 15 years is a second generation Ka-bar. I won't buy a knife that doesn't say Ka-bar, Queen, or Case. Good northern steel in those older knives, they hold and edge. In fact I used to have a great uncle that worked for Case.

I made the local baitshop special order me a Case fillet knife. I was tired of the cheap, stainless steel garbage he kept in stock that was dull after one redfish. Once the Case came in and I showed him how much better it was he now keeps them in stock and most of the old timers have mentioned that it's about time he got quality knives in and that's all they'll buy. Sure, he makes more money on the cheap ones because they just buy a new one when the old one gets dull. Seems sharpening a knife is becoming a lost art.

Nope, knives of today don't impress me much.

[sm]

Sad and Sentimental.

Older couple down the way the other day were outside doing some piddling in the yard. They had this "look" and something was wrong.
Seems his wife had dropped her Old Old Imperial pen knife with the Mother of Pearl imitation handles.
This was a gift way back in their many years of marriage. He carries one like it with a black handle.

I parked my truck and assisted in finding this knife. Undid the bags of pine needles, some other yard stuff and I spied it near the front steps, on the ground.

You would have thought she had won a million dollars in the way she reacted when I walked over to her with this knife. I could FEEL the years and all the things that knife, and his knife too...with all these knives had seen, done, and been through. Character and Soul.

They have put these up, part of the deal is, when they die , they get buried with the other one's knife.

They were out of town visiting some folks and hit pawn shops and found some old pocket knives (Shrade) to replace these old Imperials. For yard and all the piddling they do, they bought two new Old Hickory small Paring knives, did a cardboard sleeve to carry and tote them in as I do.

I do not see folks wanting to be buried with these new knives made with handle materials and steels.

-

I already have witnessed how the family of the deceased views getting a Polymer gun or synthetic gun. I have witnessed the disappointment, or wanting to "fuss" over who got a Glock 26 and who got the Colt Detective Special, Model 36, Model 10.

"Mom, dad, grandpa....etc...don't leave me any plastic stuff I want to remember you the way you are and how you did stuff..."

I know one husband and wife, that got rid of Glocks, and Tacky knives , upon hearing the kids talking to Granparents. They went back to 1911s and Steel Revolvers, and real knives.

For the children - for sure.

[JTW Jr.]

very good post. I like the way your threads provoke thought and great discussion.

There is something to be said for heirlooms , my oldest son , 13 , has a bone stock mint series 70 gov ( blue ) , that was passed to him from me , though it remains in the safe till he is off age. I asked my wife to bury me ( when that day comes , no rush ;) ) with either one of my daily carry knives UNLESS one of my sons asks for them.

To me in 30 years or so , I am confidant my sons will feel the same way about the knives they see me carrying and using daily , Striders , Blackwoods , Rinaldi's and of course my Kershaw Double Cross and a couple Case and Barlows. The customs will mean much more to them as they have met and shook hands with the men who have made them , a few have had dinner with the family at our house.

I think the important thing , rather than what material it is made from , is to teach youth the correct way of using , sharpening , caring for and respecting a blade of any make ( and firearms as well ). And hopefully I can bestow some knife making knowledge onto my sons , my oldest very well may finally decide to step up to the Bader and make his own fixed blade this summer.

I like 1095 , 5160 , and 01 , I also like ATS34 , bg42 and S30v. I like stabilized wood scales but also like micarta and CF as well. Nothing wrong with mixing it up.

I like old school , I like new school , I like old guns , I like a few newer guns , I love old cars & I like new cars ( though I do like the modern conveniences they have , I hate wrenching on them :D ).

For awhile i was a techno gadget junkie , carried a cell phone , blackberry and a PDA... about a year ago I got rid of em all ( made more room for knives in my pockets too ! ) , perhaps I am subconsciously going back to grassroots ? not that it would be a bad thing come to think of it.

[Brian Williams]

Yep, just "won" Sharpfinger on Fleabay for the princely sum of $44.95, 'cause it is carbon steel, Made in USA with a Leather sheath. Won't tell the prices on the others but one is a 1980 Stage Peanut single blade with a bail and the other is a new Case trapper with Amber Bone scales and CV blades.

http://i4.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/80/49/c414_1.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/80/c2/5f08_1.JPG

[Valkman]

Look at that patina! Now that is a thing of beauty!

[JohnKSa]

Dave,

While your points are well taken, I'd say that stainless steel and pocket clips are significant improvements. (I know not everyone LIKES knives with those features, but they can be very useful. ;) )

[Dave McCracken]

John, I've seen Revolutionary War era "Soldier's Knives" with a belt hook like an oversized pocket clip, They were similar to the belt hooks on some martial pistols of that time.

I like pocket clips. I also like knives that don't rust. IMO, these are tweaks rather than breakthroughs.

[sm]

Not real keen on pocket clips.
Just me and how raised , but I like to think I observe, read folks, and read situations. This all before tactical knives and pocket clips.

For example
I notice the ink pen, that Cross Pen has a logo on it, and I recognize the logo.
Same pen the Bank Mgr uses at work, and off work he is using the same pen.

The Bond Daddy into nose candy, Sporting the Two Tone Rolex with the blue dial...that blonde is his "date" sporting a gold razor blade and /or coke spoon as a necklace, or charm on a bracelet. Both with long pinkie fingernails.

Keys, the person watching me, has a certain vehicle key, with remote...I can scan the lot, and see where such vehicles are, in relation to where I am parked...

Car wash, and lady upset about a scratch on her car. Discussion taking place, with a Car wash mgr. Scratch is same height as the pocket clipped knife the car wash attendant is wearing as he was drying off that side of vehicle.

Pocket watch Fobs...class key hanging out, now is there a pocket watch that actually works, or not...maybe just a knife. Nope, fella is wearing a Omega Seamaster and he used the gold knife to open his package of crackers.

Laynards, now that fancy tied set up tells me there is nice fancy knife in that pocket and sure enough it is a expensive custom knife.
Paracord and most likely a SAK - and sure enough a SAK .

What guns? What knives? Guns are bad and " excuse me, may I borrow your scissors, or do you have a knife?" ;)

Undercover officer sees My Zippo on the table with smokes - coast is clear. No lighter...he keeps on walking...;)

[JohnKSa]

Car wash, and lady upset about a scratch on her car. Discussion taking place, with a Car wash mgr. Scratch is same height as the pocket clipped knife the car wash attendant is wearing as he was drying off that side of vehicle.That is definitely an issue with pocket clips. I had to switch to carrying only in the front pocket and at the front point of the pocket.

Your point about concealing your knife (rather than leaving a pocket clip exposed) is also a good one. Read this to see why...

http://www.therallypoint.org/forum/index.php?topic=930.0

The link in the first post of that thread won't work, continue to the second post, the text from the link is in it.

[JTW Jr.]

concealing your knife is fine IF it is legal to do so , it many states/counties it may not be. Read some of the other posts there as well. They hit it on the head " Be aware of your surroundings" , which is sounds as though none were doing.

I love to study people , next time you go to the mall , grocery store or wherever , look at how many people are walking around totally oblivious to the world around them , talking on cell phones , checking their blackberry for email , etc. Easy targets for the thugs.

I have been carrying at least one folder clipped in a pocket for over 20 years , never snagged it on anything , never had anyone outside of my knife collecting friend ever mention it to me or ask why I have it.

[Kingcreek]

As a small child, I remember sitting on my grandpa's lap in his workshop as he taught me to sharpen chisels and planer blades with a stone. He guided my hands as I learned the proper technique. Later he let me sharpen knives and one day, when he decided I was ready, he gave me a small bone-handled stockman of my own. He gave me a small stone with it. I carried it everyday and everywhere, even to school. I kept it sharp, clean, and lightly oiled.
He died when I was 10 years old and one day I lost that knife thru a new hole in the bottom of a jeans pocket. You can bet I'd pay anything for the return of that little knife today- some 40 years later. I still have the small arkansas stone.
There is an abundance of knives around here, full spectrum, from $7 moras to several customs costing more than I want to admit. You won't find a dull one. My favorites are a 100 year old stag-handled Marble's Ideal (belonged to the other grandpa) and a small fixed blade Rosselli puuko. Many days I carry a folding hunter by Bob Dozier (no pocket clip and D2 steel of course).
Traditional is OK but there are some damn good modern knives out there. Fortunately, we don't have to limit ourselves to just one or the other.
I've even got one of those vintage sharpfingers around here somewhere.

[sm]

JohnKSa,

Thank you!
That link shares what my Mentors & Elders shared with me as little kid.
I was born in 1955! I recall even back then M&E's including my maternal grandma, passing forward such lessons on "how do you want to be perceived?"

Grandma, looked like a "grandma". Apron, those "old lady shoes" and all around the house. Hat when dolled up...but she kept herself armed. Nobody really "saw" anything but a grandma. She did not "pull out" her money. At a store and strangers around "put it on the ledger, I'll square up later". She did not want folks seeing what she had, and where kept.

Folks advertise w-a-y too much! Folks had cars busted into and hotel rooms too attending shooting matches. Out of town plates and it does not take much to tell whom is in town for the shooting match - or golf game for a Corp meeting.

I would show up - out of town, leave my vehicle with trusted friends and use another local vehicle with that state's tags. My guns? Looked like anything but guns. Two cars were "hit" at a restaurant one night on either side of the one I was driving.
Mine had a baby bottle and teething ring on the back seat.
The two either side had NRA stickers, "if it flies it dies" , and basically screamed guns.

Buck 110s. Never cared for these, personally the Case fit my hands better. Still folks "read" Buck 110s. Now this is back when gun racks and guns were in the racks.
We really did not have a problem - still problems happened. See a fellow in this new-fangled camo , folks watching, see the Buck 110, see the stickers on the newfangled hunting truck/ SUV.
Few folks got in some problems being followed out to the woods. One reason I CCW while hunting - gotta get to and fro.
Some fellas get the drop on you /yours and all you have are long guns - whatcha gonna do?

Concealed means concealed. Always has, always will to me.

I got a $2 carton cutter to open boxes with, easy to use one-handed, and it does work real well for defensive purposes.
Got a inexpensive screwdriver, reversible, like folks use for working on PCs, office equipment.
Opens boxes, and again, works fine for defensive purposes.

Do I have a knife? Depends. Often times "need to get a knife I guess", or "May I borrow your knife?" or "Guns? Guns are bad, why on earth do folks need guns with cell phones and 911?.

Oh yeah, been invited to learn how to shoot, given literature about handgun laws in state and all sorts of stuff, including going hunting.

--
--

Yes I asked for assistance on "what knife for me" her on THR a few years ago I chose two, this was a social experiment. :) Also I was testing the knives, these did not hold up. My Case slip-joint / pocketknife did - then I lost that one (dumb mistake on my part losing a Trapper Jr, with CV blades)

Not having a knife, and folks noticing - I was offered a Sebenza, tested a Benchmade and other things...
Did not accept, or given back after some more social experimenting and testing and evaluations.

--

I got the right to be wrong. Part of my "wrong" is - I used to use my hands and use hand tools.
I apprenticed for this. Dremels were not even around then. Foredom Flex shafts were...I was NOT allowed to use powered tools. I started apprenticeship , sweeping floors and taking out the trash.

Handmade stuff, not stampings. Quality not Quantity. One of a kind - not mass produced.

Over the years all I grew up has 'changed'. I understand the mix of new technologies, how Chrysler had 3 times the square footage of Honda. How the Chrysler plant had to physically drag the chassis many times for various steps,and it took 7 folks to weld.
Honda, robotic. One on the track, did not have to "drug around". Robot did precise welding, and Honda produced a better car, with half the employees and 1/3 the square footage.
Honda USA made a better car, and way fewer problems than Chrysler.
I did the research too many years ago.

--

Full retail at a Feed Store and the Barhead Trapper trapper was about $ 31 with tax included. Fit and finish is superb, walk and talk , sharp as a razor out of the box, and has kept its edge.

Why does a $$$ knife cost $$$ when the previous morning the "idea" was born and the Computer fired up? They call these "custom knives" sometimes too...
Prototype messed with , virtual model designed. Send this downstairs to the machine that makes one out of the best priced metal bought on the market, and one "manufactured".

Tweak a few things, feed the metal bought on the market at the best price for that "lot" and give it a "name" so that metal, same as others are using - is "better."
Marketing folks gotta eat too...

Now umpteen of these are manufactured at blinding speeds, no character, no soul, no "feeling".

Price is based on marketing, overhead, advertising, taxes , insurance, legal...
and the oldest "bidness" thinking ever.

"A person feels a nickel pencil writes better than one that only costs them two pennies".
Psychological, self esteem, mob mentality, all sort of "things" come into play.

Those "limited" knives of 100 - 2000 are sold. Now repeat the process, do some razzle-dazzle on blade shape, finish, new word the buying folks are in need of, need a "new and improved knife" and market that puppy.

Seen it over the years, been right there when it was going on. Not my way, made me a bit sad, angry and upset.
Then again "bidness is bidness" and folks will always want a sense of belonging, acceptance, and will spend monies for these feelings.

--

Customer of mine in the clothing business. One of his lines were men's oxford shirts. Buyers from Dept Stores bought that shirt. Same exact shirt - except the label and the price tag.
Folks would see me wearing my usual oxford shirt, long sleeve, button down collar, mention - Dillards, MMCohn, Lord & Taylors, Kohls and whomever these nice stores in various towns.
At the time retail at a small store, family chain this shirt was - $10.99 retail. Lord & Taylors in Dallas got $22.99 for it. In PA one store got $32.99 for it.

Buddy of mine gave me labels as joke - "you can have as expensive a shirt you want after you pay the $10.99 retail you been paying". :D
NY store got $39.50 for "my shirt".

Just like some of new plastic money folks buy one bottle of good spirits. They refill it with "bar" scotch, whiskey, rye, - whatever.

Bottom line - in my day anyway, "What are you getting for monies spent?"

Old boss said " folks will buy a cow chip if on sale, marked down , on reduction or touted loud enough".
Another boss said " Three factors determine the price of all goods and services- Greed, Greed and Greed.

--

Canister oil filters back in the day. Same filter for a Chevy or Ford. Ask for a Lincoln or Caddy filter - and you paid more for it.
Sales reps always asked for the Chevy or Ford one and used the money saved for something else.
Gates radiator hose another example.

--

Call me "wrong" call me a relic, call me old fashioned.
Just watch a fellow make a pocketknife , temper the back- springs, fit the pivot holes, and all the steps to make a quality slip joint/ pocketknife, that sells for $40 retail.
Look at the old cigar box grandparents left folks with old pocket knives, made this way that were used so much. Pick one up and feel the character , soul, and the feeling that went into making it.

:)

[Adam Selene]

I do not like stuff hanging off or out of my pockets either. I would rather leave it at home than have to drag it on a clip.

[TrapperReady]

Steve - About two or three days before you posted this thread, I received an A.G. Russell catalog. Standing in the kitchen, leafing through the pages I stopped cold at page #13, which has the Boker Cinch Trapper and Rancher.

I kid you not... my first thought was "I bet Steve would like these knives."

Of course, my second thought was "Steve would probably remember when somthing like this cost a nickel and came out of the case next to the pickel barrel." ;)

[Axman]

Interesting discussion. As a proffessional cook, I appreciate a good knife. I have a preference for certain designs on pocket and hunting knives as well as my kitchen cutlery. I like the bone handles for durability but also have a thing for the old hunters with the laminated leather handles. Wood handles are nice but the wood has to be something durable. I don't consider price a major factor in purchasing a knife either. I have seen overpriced knifes that are worthless as well as inexpensive knives that last forever. For my prfessional cutlery, I chose a set of Farberware knives. I've had these knives for over 15 years and only sharpen them once every week. The entire set (7 knives) only set me back just over $100. They are made in Japan but are well made and are strong sturdy blades. I always look for 2 features in kitchen cutlery. The knife blade must be one piece with the metal center of the handle and must be consistant with the entire handle. It doen't matter much to me whether the handle grips are polymer or wood or whatever. Too many times I have seen a chef's knife where the blade metal stops halfway down the handle.

Hunters and folders are something I prefer in a traditional design. No fancy thumblugs or tacticool handles. Just a nice pickbone, stag, wood or leather handle. Locking folders are okay just so long as they are simple designs and don't require some secret button to release it.

[FourTeeFive]

There is a bit of a regional factor to consider too. Here in the Pacific Northwest, land of the casual outdoor look and lattes, it seems every outdoorsey guy has a clip on tactical knife. You see them everywhere, on musicians, artists, craftsmen, etc. Certainly see it more here than many parts of the country. However, I know a lot of guys that carry these and they definitely don't carry a gun.

Personally, I keep my carry knife very low-profile. I also tend to wear black jeans or slacks and always have black knives with black clips. So yes, I'm conscious about not saying "hey, I got a knife" but if someone noticed mine it would look like so many other people around here.

[sm]

TrapperReady,
Yes I want that Cinch knife! Carbon steel and word is , it is heat treated proper.
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/slipjoint/bker_cinch_trapper.html

Böker® Cinch® Rancher

The Rancher is a sturdy 3-3/8" Cattleman's Knife. Serpentine handle with carbon steel blades; a 2-1/2" clip, 1-3/4" spey and 1-3/4" leather punch all at 57-59 Rc. Nickel silver bolsters and inlay with brass liners make this very much your granddad's knife. Weighs 2.1 oz. Suggested retail is $59.95.
(B) BO-CI7388Y: $44.95

Trapper, I ain't that old. ;) My first knife was a bone Case Peanut, maternal grandma made it very special - this boy getting his first knife. I was about 3 years old. It was special, and used around and with grandma's watchful eye.

My next knife from a Mentor, Shrade-Walden, again a peanut. Again a special knife.
Happy day was the $1 Barlow I could throw in the dirt and learn mumbly-peg.
I had my special knives, I knew these were special and I never ever abused them.

Grandma was really good at mumbley-peg. We had matching Barlows and we did all sorts of stuff with them.
Why were we out in the rain playing mumbley peg? Because knives stick in mud better and I was also learning the fine art of how step into mud puddles .
Some stuff has to be "learnt right" ya know? ;)

--

Regional: Single blade knives, from Peanut, to, Sodbusters, to Barehead Trappers were seen and used most often.
Multi blades were more rare or "special reason". Ladies and Gents knives had a pen blade and scissors for instance.
Down on where horses and cattle were, these same knives were used, single blade. One used a knife. Same knife used for whittling, kitchen duty, camping, cleaning game - you name it.
One did not have a drawer full of knives to choose from, same single bladed knife for everything.

I tripped out seeing a two bladed Trapper, then the Trapper Jr the first time.
I was maybe in first grade when I saw these, then I saw Cattleknives, or stockman's.

In 1963 I was in the third grade when JFK was shot in Dallas. In my jeans pocket , at school, I had two knives, one a Barehead Trapper, the other a Peanut.
Peanut for sharpening pencils for math stuff, having to use fountain pens for some stuff [Sheaffer's] and the Scripto ink pens for other stuff.
Whittle at recess if raining, and could not play ball...
Trapper used to cut apples, peaches, pears and other stuff at lunch.

If a teacher asked to see your knife - you had better have one, no matter if boy or girl, and it better be sharp, taken care of and all.

Singer Sewing Machine oil, Norton India stone up near the teachers desk - and okay to have a little assistance - after all - we were in school and teachers taught stuff that was not always in a textbook.

"Okay class, everyone has a knife correct? Line up and we are going to the cafeteria, and we are going to help the kitchen this morning getting food prepared..."

"Whew! Teacher is not going to give that test on math this Friday morning"
"Yeah that means we are going to have it Monday instead..."
:D

[sm]

I get bigger and had started apprenticing. Just how things were done, what raised in / around and all.
There were serious concerns about me being a kid and security. These lessons started very very young.
If bad people got me, they could use me to get others to open a business and get stuff, get them to open a safe...

Times were different, I always carried at least one knife, and one I carried a lot was a Barehead Single Blade Trapper. My good knife.
Sometimes a kid needs to carry a Barlow , but I had outgrown them, instead had some other single blade knife, not very good, used for mumbley peg. We kids knew we might toss knives in dirt , try to get one to stick in tree, or something...we knew the difference.

To save some money I walked a lot, hitch-hiked, to save the bus fare. I knew folks and often times folks would see me and give me a ride.

I messed up. I messed up really bad.
I was running errands doing this apprenticeship stuff. I did the errand part fine. It was on the way back I messed up big time. I was about 11, and went to see some dogs a few blocks off the path, it was okay, I was told to take my time and enjoy the nice day, I had been really working hard.

I let my mindset go, forget some stuff messing the dogs, and the folks that owned them.
My mind was on the dogs and this vehicle with out of state plates offered me a ride back to "town".
I never saw the out of state plates. My mind was somewhere else. I only saw one person driving and " yeah sure, thanks..."

There was a second person in the back , I had messed up really bad again - I had not looked back there before getting in...

My Barehead Trapper in back jeans pocket, set up for "in case you get into trouble" had two matchsticks done in a way , the point was out a bit. Also this one had been carefully filed , where one did not have to use the nail nick - just grab the blade. Just a nice, very well blended job of removing some of the handle and liner...all this flowed with the lines of the knife, no compromise to handle strength or look...unless you knew this knife, and then sometimes compared it to one not done up like mine ( and Mentors) side by side.

I was not seated for a split second before the one in back reached over and grabbed me...driver took off , opposite of town.
Driver hit the brakes in a remote area - I was kicking, had feet going every which a way ...pushing against dash, hitting the steering wheel...
I had whipped out my Barehead Trapper one handed, snagged it open on my jeans, and cut that arm around my neck - he let go - screaming...blood going everywhere...
Driver had a small gun, and he turned more toward me - and I Sliced the gun hand,
while using my smaller base of other hand to hit his Adams Apple.

"Fight, cheat, do not stop. You might get hurt, you might get maimed, you might get dead
but dammit, do not quit, don't you ever , all this stuff happens - it had better happen under your terms - not because you quit and it happened under bad people's terms"- Mentors

I had my weak hand down onto gun pressing hard into seat, I sliced into his midsection , through his shirt and ...his eyes got real big, his hand went to his midsection, he screamed !
He was literally holding his guts in.
Back person, was cut bad too...blood spurting...

I took off for help!

After it all was said and done, My Mentors - handled me just right. Odd thing was, everything was in slow motion, I was able to do all I had to do, then it hit me like a ton of bricks.
When the time was right, I could tell how upset my Mentors were. It was hard for them to say anything, I was hoping they would say something- the silence was deafening!

"I messed up really really bad, and I messed up a lot of ways..." I said finally
"Yeah you did, now tell how you screwed up, what you were taught to do, what not to do and ....

Then we had a chat, serious, direct, calm to my level.

My knife - "See why you keep one taken care of and sharp?"
It was cleaned up for me, sharpened up and given back. I just sat there, then moved down to the floor to sit, holding it and then I got to shaking again.
Mentors , one being a lady sat down on the floor and I lost it again, angry, mad and had to get past this some more.

Then I got real hungry and " boy got an appetite, he is gonna be all right"
Next day I was given another exact copy of my Barehead, some special people, and the Mentors presented it to me.

"Time to get on to some more stuff you need to know in this life..."

Knife did not close on me, I did not get cut from the knife. My "injuries" were not serious. Just I was too busy moving,fighting and all- and cars had more metal inside back then and I learned all sorts of things scratch, cut, bruise, and all...

Mom to this day does know about this, just like other things in my life mom and sibs do not know.
Mom had enough to worry about, I was just the eldest, assisting being the eldest male of the household and was known to be active.
Limping, band-aids, bruises and all - "just a active boy growing up is all..."

It took about 3 days for the copper taste in my mouth to leave...blood does that...

This for those that asked about defensive use via PM and email.
Hope it answers and hope it helps.
May you never have to find out on your own...

S

[HiWayMan]

Holy Snikies Steve!!!!!!
......................my respect for you has now increased another 5 fold.