Talk to me about kits.


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Deer Hunter
January 2, 2007, 06:35 PM
I've been surfing around Military Gun Supply and see that they have kit guns that I could purchase for a fairly small amount of cash. My question is, however, would these kits have all the parts needed to put the firearm together, or would I have to buy a receiver? Say, for instance, if I decided to purchase a PPS-43 kit, like this one.

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/IMAGES/PARTS/PPSH43.JPG

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=PRUPPSH43

What else do I need, other than the barrel (which they sell as well), to make this into a fully functioning firearm?

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Father Knows Best
January 2, 2007, 06:42 PM
Kits do not include receivers.

Deer Hunter
January 2, 2007, 06:43 PM
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks.

Just out of curiousity, where could I find PPSh-41 or PPS-43 receivers?

Father Knows Best
January 2, 2007, 06:46 PM
By the way, I should point out that it would be several decades in the federal pen if you made that kit into a "fully functioning firearm", regardless of where you got the receiver. In fact, just possessing the receiver and the kit is a federal felony.

Kit milsurp guns are sold for two purposes. One is that you may be able to assemble the kit parts with a legal semi-auto receiver to make a legal semiauto firearm. That is commonly done with AK's, for example, and with FAL's. There are even legal semiauto receivers for 1919A4 machine guns (resulting in a 40 pound crew-served semiauto rifle). Another possibility is to assemble the kit on a "dummy" receiver for display purposes.

AndyC
January 2, 2007, 06:51 PM
Hopefully MGS' customer-service has changed since they were recently bought-out, but I'm not going to be the guinea-pig. Good luck.

Deer Hunter
January 2, 2007, 07:30 PM
I was reading on MGS's site about the description of most of their kits. On most, it says that they are cut to BATF standards. I know next to nothing about kit guns (clearly evident), but what does that say about their legality? If I were to somehow acquire a semi-automatic receiver, could something like a 7.62x25mm subgun be put together legally?

RCR29
January 2, 2007, 07:38 PM
If you do make it into a semi-automatic firearm, remember your US parts count to keep it legal.

Ian
January 2, 2007, 07:46 PM
Yes, you can use semi-auto receivers to make legal guns out of SMG kits. You do have to watch parts counts, and also be aware that you'll usually need a new barrel, unless you get the finished gun registered as a short-barreled rifle.

The key to the BATFE cutting is that the receiver is the only part of the gun that is legally a "firearm". So, if the receiver is destroyed, everything else can be imported. The BATFE has very specific requirements for how the receiver must be destroyed, in their attempt to prevent people for welding receivers back together and rebuilding machine guns.

Some kits have semi-auto conversions very readily available - AKs are the best example. Browning 1919 semi-auto conversions are also pretty available. Some other kits can be made into legal semiautos, but there aren't readily available commercial kits to do it. Sometimes individuals will design their own conversion, submit it to the feds, get it approved, and make one-off semiautos. I've seen a guy who did that with a Madsen light machine gun, for instance. Other times, people will buy kits in anticipation of a company releasing a commercial semi-auto conversion for that particular gun. When there's no easy legal conversion available, the kits will sell really cheap - and when a semiauto kit becomes available, the kit prices jump up. Lastly, some people buy kits simply to have the spare parts for their legal full-auto firearms. As you can imagine, there aren't many sources of new parts for things like PPSh-43s.

Deer Hunter
January 2, 2007, 07:51 PM
That's what I was afraid of. One of my dream-firearms is a semi-automtaic PPSh-41. However, if I were to buy a parts kit of this gun, I have no idea how I'd get a receiver for it. Most of the kits have a barrel shroud that makes the barrel over 16", so I wouldn't have to fool around with getting it registered as an SBR.

So the major obstacle I'd have to overcome if I wanted to build one of these off of a semi-automatic receiver would be somehow acquiring a semi-automatic receiver, yes?

Ian Sean
January 2, 2007, 07:56 PM
Probably about the best site on kit building with tons of info on the forums.

http://www.weaponeer.net/

I have built or participated in building 2 1919's (semi's) 7 FAL's and currently involved in a MG-42 and MG-34 build with some friends.

Weaponeer has probably the most and best info out there for the beginner in this hobby, great place to start gathering info and see if this is for you.

If you have patience, money and the desire to see it through, kit building can be a hoot.:)

DMK
January 2, 2007, 07:59 PM
Perhaps not quite what you wanted, but there is this 22LR PPS-50.

http://www.aztecguns.com/PPS/PPS_50.htm

Ian Sean
January 2, 2007, 08:03 PM
So the major obstacle I'd have to overcome if I wanted to build one of these off of a semi-automatic receiver would be somehow acquiring a semi-automatic receiver, yes?


Actually acquiring a reciever is the easy part, some of the internals require machining and mods to render them able to work as a semi-auto only.

Go to weaponeer, in the forums, go to "Specific Weapon Builds" and read up on all the info.

Hope this helps.:)

Deer Hunter
January 2, 2007, 08:11 PM
Alright. Thanks for the link, I've been looking up what's required and where I can find blank receivers. It's all pretty interesting. When I get the time/money to do this, I'm definantly taking a step into it.

Of course, by the time I have the money, I could just buy a semi-automatic version already built. But hey, nothing wrong in having two dream guns.

soul_rapier
January 2, 2007, 08:18 PM
There are semi ones out there i seen some in shotgun news a few months back http://militarygunsupply.com/shop/category.asp?catid=SEMIAUTOMATICS

Hoppy590
January 2, 2007, 08:32 PM
you would need a reciever

to stay legal you can have no more than 10 foriegn made parts off the 922 list.
so you need to make up the differance with US made parts.

here are the "parts" list
For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or
stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearm handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Mtdew
January 3, 2007, 06:29 AM
you will also need a lathe and milling machine if you want to modify the internals to S/A instead of buying S/A internals

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