[The Real Hawkeye]

The rear sight, a novak night sight, on my 1911 came from the factory misaligned. The gun shoots to the left consistently. I removed the slide from the gun, unscrewed the allen screw on top of the rear sight, marked the position of the sight in relation to the slide top with a pencil line, and proceeded to apply a brass punch to the left side and hammered it with a brass hammer designed for this. Spent ten minutes hammering to no effect. Then out came my little steel mallet, like a little Thor's hammer. First I tried it lightly (didn't want that rear sight to go flying off with the first touch of Thor's little hammer). Nothing. Not one micron. Ok, tried it a little harder. Still nothing. Now I'm hitting it with as much force as I can manage while still maintaining control of what I'm doing. Nothing. Would not budge. The left side of my rear sight now looks like it's gold plated. What the heck am I doing wrong? :fire: :banghead:

[Brian Williams]

soak with Tranny fluid and try tomorrow

[Snarlingiron]

What your are backing it up with is as important as how hard you hit it. If you have it laying on a wooden bench, there may be enough give to prevent movement. Try laying the slide on something heavy and solid (with an appropriate backing material, such as a thin piece of masonite to prevent marring). I often use the table of my table saw, I also have a very massive vice with an anvil surface, and if all that fails I have a piece of steel plate about 18" X 18" X 2" that I sometimes use. Dovetails can be very stubborn, and it may have been installed with an installation tool that applies a great deal of force. An amount of force that may be difficult for you to apply without damaging something. If it is rusted or corroded a penetrant may help. Don't misunderstand, I don't mean to imply that the gun is improperly maintained, but a tiny bit of moisture trapped in a tiny space around a dovetail can cause rust that is not visible.

[GreenFurniture]

Step 1: Wrap slide in masking tape.

Step 2: Place slide in vise or like appliance.

Step 3: Use a heavier hammer.

Works every time.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Doesn't Brownell's carry a tool for this? I looked but cannot find it, but I know I remember seeing a handy rear sight drifting tool from Brownell's once. It is designed to give you a huge amount of leverage against the rear sight. Anyone know what it's called so I can look it up?

[GreenFurniture]

A Sight Pusher?

I'm not kidding. Loosen the screws and use a heavier hammer.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Yeah, it's a sight pusher. I found it at Brownell's. $600!!!! I think I will send it in to Springfield Armory, the manufacturor, and tell them to regulate the damned thing under warrantly. A fixed sight should not come from the factory so far off the mark.

[GreenFurniture]

I wouldn't send it to Springfield. They don't have a way to regulate the sights, as they have no facility for shooting/testing.

No, I'm not kidding.

If you don't have a vise available to you take it to a local gunsmith and have them drift it.

Or, you could always take my earlier suggestion and hit it with a bigger hammer! (cause that will work! I do it all day, everyday.)

[Sunray]

Look for peening before you use a bigger hammer.

[GreenFurniture]

Look for peening.

Then remember: Left to right.

[The Real Hawkeye]

GreenFurniture, here's the hammer I used. That's a steel head.

[The Real Hawkeye]

There is no peening.

[51Cards]

Man, one look at that hammer! :what:

I did my own Mepros on my Sig, after drifting the originals a bit. I have to tell you, it was not only too scary, but fine-tuning at the range made folks nervous.

What I did: I found a site (I'm looking, I'm looking!) that sold used tools, a Sig sight-pusher being my interest. Who cares if it's a little ugly?

$85, or thereabouts. I can't imagine a 1911 pusher being out of range. You never know when you might want to change sights, or you can lend it out or sell it on --- if you're through with 1911s. :D

Also, I wouldn't be too crazy about heating anything, but you might try spot-chilling the sight. I've used those air-duster cans, upside-down (yep, against the rules --- be careful, the liquid is COLD). Set up in a vise, hit the sight (not the slide) with some spritz, and heave-ho.

If this sounds nuts, it's how I got my Mini-14 front sight pin back in (muzzle brake). Worked like a charm, except the pin is small and loses chill fast.

[Innova]

I had a similar experience. After banging on the dumb thing to no avail I took it to a smith. He placed the slide in a vice after covering it with a soft cloth. He then placed this under a drill press, and replaced the drill bit with a punch. Using the leverage of the press, and slow deliberate pulls on the press he was able to get the sight to break free, and drifted it to the correct position. It should work, and also save you some cash.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Innova, that sounds like it would work like a charm. In Sweeney's book, he refers to a much less expensive sight pusher offered by Brownell's, but I could only find the $600 one at the Brownell's web site. Will call them up today and ask about this much less expensive one. If it's under a hundred dollars, I may just get it.

[GreenFurniture]

A word of caution on the "cheaper" sight pusher from Brownell's.

It will work nicely for one or two jobs and then, sadly, it will fail.

Save yourself some time and money. Put that thing in something vise-like, stable, steady, solid, whatever you might have on hand or able to borrow and then line up a solid punch and HIT IT WITH YOUR HAMMER. Don't be afraid. You aren't going to screw anything up.

Put a dab of oil on the other side, it will make you feel better. Wont' really do anything, but it will make you feel better.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Ok, I bought the sight mover from Brownell's. If it breaks, I assume it has a warrantee. Should be here in a few days. It was a little over a hundred bucks.

[51Cards]

NOW you're talking! Worst case, you still have the pusher (I mean, if it needs warranty replacement :D ).

Good luck!!!

Maybe hit it with some WD40, then push away.

[Plink]

You might try heating the slide. Just the metal around the sight. Doesn't need to be terribly hot, but the heat might expand it enough to free the sights for adjustment. I've had to do that a few times in the past.

[Joe D]

I have removed hundreds of 1911 sights. Never had one that I could not remove. The most important thing is the vise. I use a large machinist vise that is attached to a heavy bench. The hammer I use is a fraction of the size you posted. I have had a couple of stubborn ones that I soaked overnight in Kroil

[The Real Hawkeye]

I have a reloading bench, but no vice. Will have to get one and install it.

[GreenFurniture]

Are you kidding me? You still haven't drifted those sights yet?

Man. Take a couple of books or even pieces of lumber.

Bind them. Use a couple of C-clamps or duct tape just get them tight around the slide.

Then? Get out your punch and HIT IT WITH A HAMMER.

You'll be amazed.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Green, I ordered a $100 tool. I'm not going to waste any more time with attempted hack jobs on it. :scrutiny:

[GreenFurniture]

Cool!

(of course you could always drift that puppy over in the meantime!)

[51Cards]

Yo, Hawkeye, I'm with ya.

You won't need a vise with the pusher.

This is a Sig pusher:
http://www.realguns.com/images/defaul18.jpg

The idea is pretty clear at http://www.realguns.com/archives/sigsights.htm

All of the pushers I've seen are similar. It's essentially a horizontal screw jack. If your sight is that tight, you may have to add some length to the handle --- but again, main force isn't the objective --- you don't want a broken tool, on top of everything :eek: . Force is a last resort with mechanical things, especially firearms.

The pusher works on the removed slide, and engages with the slide rails. Make sure the sight engagement lug isn't in contact with either side of the sight when you tighten the dog onto the slide.

What I'd do: hit it with WD-40, let it marinate a bit, engage the pusher, give it a push. No go, I'd try chilling the sight. Big slide, little sight. Heating the slide will heat the sight, too. If you've ever tried oven-ing parts (like the Militec-1 thing), you know the slide will stay hot like a clothes iron.

Once you get it moving, it might be a good idea to remove it completely, and find out why it's stuck. You might want to get brave and whisper at it with a fine file. Remember that it's a tapered dovetail.

This is the best I can do for you.

My Sig was bought NIB, I saw I needed to adjust after one trip (it was "pretty good," but didn't shoot bang-on from a rest). I tried drifting, but the amount of force was too scary.

I got the pusher. A brand-new gun, with a proper pusher --- I couldn't believe how much force it took to "nudge" the thing. If you want your sights dead, it would take the patience of a saint to bat them back and forth. They're hard to move, and, once loose enough, you're only going to need a hundredth or two.

Even if you still need to take it to a smith, once you're loosened-up you'll be able to adjust or change properly.

Hope you next-day-aired it!!
:)

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Gosh I though Kimber sights were tight. Blocks of wood. Vise. Brass punch. Hammer. OK, then a steel punch, Hammer. It came out like a shot.

I would like to have had a sight pusher, but I was impatient.

Still, I did it the way countless guys have changed thier 1911 sights for 75 years.

-Steve

I couldn't live without a vice. First thing I did when I built my shop. I built my work bench, then installed my vise. That was even before I set up the stereo or installed the compressor. Oh, the work bench is an old military metal desk with a 2" solid fire door bolted to the top and on top of that is a 5/8" steel plate that the vise is bolted to. Yeah, it's heavy. I use it when I'm working on engines and other car parts. Seldom when working on a firearm. But it's there when I need it. Kinda like owning a 4x4 pickup. How do people live without a truck? Aren't these required tools of manhood?

[51Cards]

Did you see the picture of the hammer already being used? OMG! If it's that stuck, it's not just tight.

I am a Master of Impatience :D . But for this --- I could wait :D . I did wait --- for Fedex :D .

Now, I am the Master of my Sights --- unfortunately, not the Absolute Master of the 10-Ring. :D

But now, I have no excuses ... :(

[Robert Hairless]

Many sights are installed with Loctite. It's necessary to heat the sight at its base to break down the Loctite before attempting to move it. A soldering pencil applied to the base of the sight at each end should do the job. If you have night sights stay away from the tritium vials: heat can pop them out.

That hammer in the photograph ... it was a joke, right? A small gunsmith's brass hammer and a substantial brass punch are the tools to use. Remove the slide from the frame, put the slide in a padded vise, apply the heated soldering pencil so that the sight gets hot enough on both sides to break the Locktite, then hold the punch firmly against the base at the left side of the sight and give the punch a moderate with the hammer. That tap should break the Loctite seal. Then wrap the sight thorougly in masking tape, put the punch firmly against the base at the left side again, and give the punch a few hearty whacks with the hammer. You need to hold the punch parallel to the sight's dovetail so the force of your blows moves the sight. If your punch cuts through the masking tape, patch it with a bit more tape. At the end you can remove any brass marks with Hoppe's No. 9.

The $100 or so sight mover: put it on a shelf above your workbench so that everyone knows you're a pro. But use the hammer and punch for the actual work. :)

[crucible]

Mr. Hairless is wise; Loctite is added to sights sometimes to help keep them in place and generally requires the use of heat to remove whatever it's applied to.

Like others, I've had at least one rear sight almost fly right off that had only a locking screw keeping it on; it's adjustable replacement's locking screw was complimented by red Loctite that I fully expect to have to heat up to get it removed...but I really don't see that need happening.

C-

[The Real Hawkeye]

Ok, I'll get the soldering tool and heat up the sight base first. Thanks. I am the first owner. It's a Springfield Armory. Do they use loctite on their sights?

[Robert Hairless]

I don't know if Springfield Armory uses Loctite when installing its sights. From your account of the difficulties you've encountered, there are only four possible reasons for them.

1. You didn't remove the set screw Novak uses on its rear sight. But you said you did, so that couldn't be the reason.

2. The rear dovetail was cut tight and the site was press fit. Kimber does that, which (as someone else remarked) makes its rear sights moveable only by the strong of heart, mighty of muscle, or feeble of mind. I never have problems with Kimber's rear sights but I won't speculate on which of those three attributes I possess. Luck, possibly.

3. Springfield used Loctite under the site, probably by dropping some down the hole for the set screw before turning it down. It might or might not have made the screw a bit harder for you to remove at first.

4. Some other reason.

If the problem is caused by #2, I think you either should have been able to move the sight by now or I could make a fortune by placing a large wager that I can whip you in arm wrestling any day in the week and twice on Sundays.

If the problem is caused by #1, you didn't really remove the set screw and shame on you for telling an untruth.

If the problem is caused by #4, I meant to be in the Golf Forum and got here by mistake, so please excuse me while I leave.

Having exhausted all those other possibilities, I think it's # 3, especially because you didn't respond to someone else's suggestion about heating the sight.

I hate to say this but if you marked the slide to show where the sight should be moved, you really could have sent the slide to Springfield and had them move it under warranty. They have a fine reputation for taking care of their customers. My guess is that the most it would have cost you is shipping: about $5.00 is my guess. Or they might have picked up that cost. Or a local pistolsmith might have done it while you wait for maybe $10.00 or maybe nothing. This is one of those small jobs that takes just a few minutes for someone who knows how, or can crush the spirit of someone who doesn't. And the sights too. But that's how we learn, so now you have moved to the stage of being able to talk about this experience a few years from now as "I paid my dues, young feller."

I hope you realize that you are obligated to tell us all how this saga ends, as soon as it ends. We're all seated at our computers, doing without sleep or food or anything else, until you post the resolution. It's like a mystery story now.

[The Real Hawkeye]

To spare you the sleepless nights, I will let you know how it turns out. :)

[hceptj]

I replaced a set in a kimber and it was next to impossible until spraying a little wd40 type stuff on them and putting them in a vice. I bought some magnetic stick on guards that have a 1/8" piece of rubber on them that fit in my vice. Took a small hammer and a brass punch to the sights and they popped right out.

FYI, I bought one of the sight pushers a while back, just like the one in that pic, the blue one. Paid around $80 for it. It wouldn't even budge the kimber sight so I gave up on it. I'll keep it and try it again one day, just not on a kimber.

You'll get there...good luck!

[hemiram]

I've been seeing Loctite on all kinds of stuff lately, even the cheapo Ebay Chinese chair I bought a while back, that I hate, has blue Loctite like stuff on all the hardware. Those bolts are hard to turn once that loctite stuff is filling up the threads! The tiny little Allen wrench killed my fingers, so out came the cordless drill with an allen bit and it went together nicely. Too bad it's a horrible chair, comfort wise.

My friend bought a Winchester '94 clone a while back and the rear site was red Loctited on. We pounded on it pretty good, and NOTHING. We had to take a BIG soldering iron to it, just to get it to move a tiny bit. I told him to leave it alone, but it bugged him that it was off a little at 50 yards. After we got it hot, it smoothly slid over too far, and then we let it cool off a little and once it started grabbing again, we put it where we wanted it. It was peened a little under it, so I guess that didn't help. It's stayed where we put it, and is dead on now.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

There isn't a gun shop or gun smith within a reasonable driving distance?

I'd hope that a shop might almost do this slight sight move while you wait.

-Steve