[packnpundit]

Hey I'm a just a noob here, but I was hoping to find some other local THRers interested in a bolt action milsurp shoot sometime soon, or maybe even at regular intervals. Range fees are $5.00 for all day. They sell paper targets cheap, or you can bring your own. Last time I brought out my Mk4 no.1 it turned a few heads. Or at lease the muzzle blast did. Since then I have acquired several more guns - A m/n 91-30, M38 and a Yugo Mauser. Got them all last week, so I'm anxious to put some rounds through them.

Would it be fun to put up some kind of prize for the best 5 shot group at 100m? Bragging rights? Post or pm me if you'd like to get in on this.

Thanks all,

Dan

[armoredman]

Now I wish I lived up there, I have a No4MK1* and a 91/30, lotsa fun guns...

[1911Ron]

Maybe we could go out to the desert and have a "custom"match of our own, what say?

[packnpundit]

Ron, maybe that would work. Is B.F.E. Az anywhere near Phoenix? I thought Ben Avery would be good because it's close to metro phoenix and could possibly be more convenient for the largest number of participants. There is also the question of safety. Although I tend to resent the idiot proof range rules, they do have a very good safety record. I love to go shooting in the desert, but would prefer to know the people I was going to shoot with a bit better. Don't know. Where is B.F.E. anyways?

[RemingtonFreak870]

I might like to come down there from Flagstaff sometime, I have been itching to get out to the range since getting a few new guns, my Saiga 7.62x39 would be fun to really dial in, also would like to put a brick through my new MkIII. Do they have skeet/trap shooting at Ben Avery?

[azredhawk44]

Heck, I'll go out and buy a Milsurp Mosin or Mauser to play with you guys. It's been on my to-do list for a year or two anyways.

Count me in.

[pat86323]

im down i got a small pile of milsurps laying around and am looking hard at getting a couple more. I think i need an enfield and especially a swede mauser (dont know why but i just love those stinkin things) If i can get off my lazy behind and find some ammo my frenchie (mas 36) definately needs a workout. let me know dude

[packnpundit]

GREAT to hear from a few enthusiasts. Don't know how to use the "quote" feature on this forum, so I'll answer a few things that came up. Yes Ben Avery has trap/skeet. In fact, they just improved the facility last year. I haven't had my 12 ga out since the redo. That might also be fun, but my scatter gun is a bit of an embarrassment, a Rossi combo with 12 ga and 22lr barrels. More a survival gun than a skeet gun. But it works. First time out, I'll have enough milsurps to clean up without adding to the mess. BTW. I was thinking a Sunday morning might be good. After shooting for a few hours we could head up to Pioneer Village for an awesome brunch - all you can eat for $10. Pioneer Village is a cool place. In addition to the restaurant and historic buildings, they sometimes host black powder and cowboy shoots. It's located the next exit north of Ben Avery off the 17. Your ticket at Ben Avery is good all day, so an after-brunch session is certainly possible for those interested. Or we could start with brunch and then descend on Ben Avery. Thing is the shooting stations fill up fast on Sundays, so an early start at the Range is advisable. And you will really be ready to dig into some hot food after a cool morning out there.
I was also thinking of hosting a gun cleaning party at my shop following the event. There is a sunny yard there where we could set up tables outside and clean our guns. Hot water and ammonia for users of corrosive ammo would be available Shop located just off the freeway near exit 232 - New River Rd. What do you think?;)

[azredhawk44]

Not this weekend... too short notice. I need time to run up to Prescott (J&G sales) and find a decent milsurp or two and some ammo. Although it would probably cost less to put the gas money into the additional cost that Big 5 will charge for the same guns.

Maybe the 13th and 14th of January?

Anyone know of a good milsurp dealer in the Phoenix valley?

[packnpundit]

Sunday, January 14th would work for me too. Big 5 stores are a decent place to look. They are a bit cagey and won't want to show you a lot of stock. If you don't like the one example of the gun they have out, be assured they have dozens in the back room. Use your powers of persuasion. I got lucky there and picked up a M/N 38 carbine that had been rearsed. It was 89 bucks. The barrel was recrowned and the rifling looks like new. Nice new blueing on it too. I will be trying it out for the first time at this shoot. You should be able to find something similar. After my purchase, the gun they put out for sale had good metal, but the stock look like a p.o.s. As for ammo, have J&G ship you a case. They definitely have the best deal going on that score. How does that date work for the rest of you all?

The range open at 7:00 and closes twenty minutes before dark. Here's a link:

http://www.basfaz.com/facility_information.htm

[sumpnz]

Boy would I love to go. But this weekend is too soon, and next weekend my daughter is having a minor surgery on her hand (but since she's only 2.5 it'll still be a pretty big deal). If it's the weekend of the 20th or later I should be able to at least bring Miss Kaysa (my M96 Swede).

[azredhawk44]

Sounds good...

If you had your choice between:

Enfield #2A Ishapore in .308
Enfield #4 in .303
Mosin Nagant M38 in 7.62x54R
Mosin Nagant M44 in 7.62x54R
Mosin Nagant M91/30 in 7.62x54R

Which would you choose?

I'm leaning towards the .308 Ishy. I already have an M1A, so I am well stocked on the caliber. I've wanted one for a while. Reload-ability is important to me, and I'm already set up to handload for this.

But .308 is a hot caliber to shoot in a milsurp rifle. Which has me thinking about the Enfield #4 in .303. I've heard that bullet size is actually around .311, which makes handloading extremely difficult since not many bullets are around for that size.

Anyone make boxer-primed 7.62x54R brass?

What are the differences between the 3 models of Nagants I listed here?

[packnpundit]

For info on all variants of the nm rifle go to:

http://www.7.62x54r.net

The.311 bullet is available in various weights for your reloading pleasure. The same slugs can be used in either the .303 or 7.62x54r brass. There are probably a few threads dealing with this. I just use dirty surplus ammo and clean up thoroughly after the shoot. Much cheaper way to go.

Pick a gun YOU would like, not a gun I would like. Best to go a look at what's available and see if anything jumps out at ya. Take a good look at the rifling and barrel crown. If it's shot out, no amount of fixing will make it right. Although I have heard of reloaders using cast lead bullets sized up to match the actual barrel and thus get a good gas seal.

[armoredman]

azredhawk, I reload for both the 303 and the 7.62x54R, and I found the .3105 174gr hornady FKJ/BT work best in the Enfield, and OK in the Mosin. The 150gr .312 Hornady SP works best in the Mosin. Yes, anything for 303 is interchangeable with 7.62x54R, and you can use the 123 and 125 gr 7.62x39mm bullets as well, but they may not give stellar accuracy.
Brass is available for both calibers from Grafs, and I use Winchester brass for the .303. Works very well.
91/30 - Full length infanty rifle, long, rugged, dependable, primary infantry arm in WWII for Soviet troops.
M38 - carbine version of 91/30, used mostly by second line troops, artillery, etc.
M44 - M38 with attached pigsticker, when troops complained the 91/30 was too long for urban combat, but the M38 had no bayonet attachment. Voila! And the M44 was born, and urban fighting Russkies' dream.
Don't forget the 91/59, a cut down 91/30 to M38 size, done in the late 50s for border guards.

[Bula]

I know it was sked earlier by AZRedhawk, but are there any good milsurp retailers in the valley?

[packnpundit]

Read post #10 in this thread!:) Anyone know of other places, please post!

[1911Ron]

Packnpundit BFE Az is just outside Phoenix(buckeye area) the 14th sounds good(if work cooperates:banghead: )

[packnpundit]

Cool beans. Looks like more than a few folks want in on the party. And this thread has only been up one day. It would be awesome to march into Ben Avery with a dozen of us toting rifles and cases of ammo. The noise will be terrific! :fire: When all the other shooters have packed up in disgust we can go to brunch, then return to clear out the after-church crowd. :neener::neener: :neener: Just kiddin'

[pat86323]

if you want one of those ishapore 308 enfields you might want to get one pretty quick. I heard that the surplus is running pretty low on them and the price will likely climb soon.

[BLACK-N-TAN]

check this place out for Rifles:
http://local.yahoo.com/details;_ylt=Asr_AajZXW8WKWd.ki2saC6HNcIF?id=20060039&state=AZ&city=Scottsdale&stx=bear+arms&csz=Scottsdale%2C+AZ&fr=dd-local-more&ed=bYpmaK131DylDowFmBNo2UjL6PdzRDKClTKTieinmoYldmxje2Wpmh8ZAw--&lcscb=

I got my M44 & a sporterized .303 at this shop a few years back, both under $70

AJI sales in Apache Junction has a decent selection as well, Talk to Jeff if you feel like making the treck out east, tell him Geno sent ya ;) ;)

[BLACK-N-TAN]

http://www.ajisports.com/index.html

here ya go!

[hagar]

Good to see Jeff is doing good. I knew him long before he started the gunstore, used to go coyote hunting with him, and compete against him in the annual Mesa Varmint Hunters club (now AZ Predator Callers) shooting competition, which he won or scored highly in every year.

[azredhawk44]

I bought my first rifle there... a used Winchester 94 from 1970's production. Cool, I know the place.

[sumpnz]

B&T - I got my Sig P245 at Bear Arms. When I was picking it up I had my daughter with me (she was ~15 months at the time). They had this huge Teddy bear that some other employee had thought would make a good "mascot" for the store. 'Course all the other guys thought it was about the stupidest thing they'd ever hear. It has been sitting in a corner collecting dust for a while by the time I came in. While I was filling out the 4473 the clerk that was helping me got it for my daughter to play with. When we were getting ready to leave he said she could keep the bear. He figured that was a better use for it than taking it out as a shotgun target. We still have that bear and my daughter, who turns 3 in a few months, still loves to play with it.

[BLACK-N-TAN]

ya they are people, and shops like Bear & AJI earn my business, and my good word of mouth when someone needs a recomendation....I have bought several firearms from both shops. Growing up in Mesa I didn't mind the drive to Scottsdale to pick up a new piece when I knew I was heading for a no pressure shopping experience. AJI is the same way, always willing to let you fondle a new prospect and give you the best advise on what will really work for you. I live in Vegas now and still do most of my shopping at these places in AZ.

I don't know if I will be able to make this shoot as I have a move coming up over the next weekend or 2, but would really love to dust off the old school bolt guns and give them a workout. Have fun!!

[azredhawk44]

I didn't make it out to AJI, but Big 5 was close by today and had a good price on Mosin Nagants. $89. Not the best price, but they were very good specimens. They had an M44, an M38 and a couple of 91/30s. I ended up with a 91/30. Bolt lockup on the second one I inspected was extremely tight... the first one wobbled a bit too much for my taste when cammed shut. Barrel crowning on the first was better, but that can be fixed easily on #2.

I will have a gunsmith friend re-crown the barrel, but the rifling looks very clean in this guy.

I also got 20rds of Winchester White Box 7.62x54R soft points. Anyone know if these are Berdan or Boxer primed? I would have gotten another 1 or two otherwise.

[4v50 Gary]

I've driven by the Ben Avery Range several times when I visited Arizona. There's an Historic Village just a little north of it and they've got some period houses that were moved there. It's part of the State Park system and is worth visiting. The Ben Avery Range is owned & operated by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association.

[hagar]

Go shoot the Washington's Birthday match at Ben Avery 17-18 February 2007, you will not be disappointed. You can shoot any old or new military type rifle as long as it has iron sights. See http://www.geocities.com/washbday/

[azredhawk44]

To all the folks planning on coming out to Ben Avery on the 14th:

Anyone have some surplus 7.62x54R they can sell me? If you've got a box of 1000 rds surplus, I'd appreciate it if you can sell me 100 rounds or so.

I'll be driving past J&G in a couple weeks, but I don't have time to head up that way right now.

Otherwise, I've only got 20rds currently in Winchester Softpoints.

[pat86323]

they will ship the ammo, right now there are three diffrent types of surplus plus wolf. I just purchased some romanian lead core and it ran wonderfully through my 91/30. Dont know if ill make the 14th but we can always reschedual a second trip...........right?

[packnpundit]

. The range opens at 7:00 and it will be dark enough at that time to see a decent fireball on your carbines. Much less bright after 7:30. Probably will be around 40 deg. I will be in cold weather gear for sure. If it's too windy or wet the range will close. Come whenever you want, but I'm leaving for breakfast buffet at Pioneer Village around 10:30 or so. Last time my shoulder gave up after 40 rounds through the Enfield, so I'm working on some padding for Sunday. I may also bring a pistol to mix it up.

The Restaurant at is on Pioneer Rd , just one exit north of Carefree Hwy. It's Inside Pioneer Village mentioned earlier in this thread. Friendly, homey place...They have a singing cowboy there too. Also big tables and indoor and outdoor seating. The buffet is good, but if you want to order off the menu, they will oblige.

Anyone planning to come please PM me so I can get an idea and give the range and restaurant a heads up if numbers warrant. Maybe we should plan on locating ourselves at the far left of the firing line. We could make an impressive fusillade as a group. :fire: Thanks!:

[packnpundit]

Ok there's one confirmed member to come on Sunday morning. We intend to start filling space at the far left stations on the range. Hope to see at least a few others.

[azredhawk44]

Leaving right now... come on folks, let's go shooting!:)

[pat86323]

i couldnt possibly make it down, i have the guns, i have the ammo. However i have a new job and i started at a stupid time in the pay period and didnt have any cash for gas and such.....besides its nfl playoffs. Lets schedual another shoot down there soon maybe not just milsurps but just have an az members shoot. Sorry i didnt make it and i hope you had fun while you guys were there.
Pat

[HuntAndFish]

Gosh, I miss Arizona. Hope you guys had fun!

[packnpundit]

WE did have a blast:evil: