British 303


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TX_Shooter
January 4, 2007, 08:57 AM
I just got my British .303 serviced by a local gun smith. Over 13 years have I shot this bad boy. Since it's been this long, I am thinking about making it a long range rifle. Anyone here know what kind of accuracy I can get with it? Yards wise? Thanks

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Chipperman
January 4, 2007, 09:15 AM
SMLE's have varied accuracy. Some shoot very well, others are broad side of barn accurate.

The only way to know for sure is to take it out for a drive.

armoredman
January 4, 2007, 09:29 AM
What is it? No1, No4, No5? The first two can give great accuracy, and have been used as hunting rifles down on the Dark Continent for years, (not reccomended for really BIG stuff, of course!), but the No5 Jungle Carbine, or the erzatz clones thereof, are not known for fantastic long range accuracy.

I like my No4Mk1*, and it does OK, can get some 1 inch groups at 100 yard with my handloads. I haven't tried it at real long range - don't have a place to do that!

News Shooter
January 4, 2007, 09:32 AM
is long distance for me.

I love my Jungle Carbine.

dfaugh
January 4, 2007, 09:49 AM
IF it's in good shape (expecially the muzzle, which is where you see alot of wear from steel cleaning rods)...They are probably one of the most accurate milsurp shooters. many will shoot around MOA with good ammo.

Essex County
January 4, 2007, 01:05 PM
Personaly, I wouldn't invest much until I shot it off a bench with a variety of loads. Some time and effort is involved, but it might pay off big time on a dollar basis...Essex

Limeyfellow
January 4, 2007, 02:59 PM
The Lee Enfield is usually more than capable of long range. I shot a No4 Mk1 at 600 yards and got all the targets on a 16 inch spread with iron sights much to my sheer amazement. I think I may just about scope one and upgrade it to a No4 Mk1(T) status and see what I get.

mustanger98
January 4, 2007, 05:10 PM
:D Countdown to MJ's picture posting... 3... 2...

DougW
January 4, 2007, 07:49 PM
Knowing which Enfield you have would help. I am sorry to say that my #5 is as accurate as any of ny #4's. All my .303's are more capable of great accuracy than I am. Working up a proper hand load has helped. As others have stated, crown and bore condition can affect accuracy. Head space can too, but don't go crazy on that one.

MJ
January 4, 2007, 08:22 PM
I have seen women shoot SMLE's & #4's at 400 & 600 yards. At Bisley they mix them right in with the boys and have a go. What are you expecting? .5 MOA at 1000 yrds? You can get a great deal from a decent #4 and HXP ammo with a little practice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/30806.jpg

:neener:

MJ

mustanger98
January 4, 2007, 08:27 PM
This didn't take me but just a few seconds, but I'm thinking those are L42A1 parts. First clue is the mag. Then the swivels, particularly the one that goes just ahead of the mag.

MJ
January 4, 2007, 09:12 PM
Going on this 1954 #4Mk2 bareled action.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/7620004.jpg

;)

hagar
January 4, 2007, 09:23 PM
The .303 is probably the only caliber that will shoot smaller groups in moa at longer range. Whether by design or accident, slower bullets shoot higher at short range, and at longer range they begin to converge, and the groups get smaller. They used to shoot 303's at over 2000 yards, and supposedly none of the modern calibers can compete with a 303 at that range. It ruled long range shooting for a long time before the 308 began to be competitive. A standard 303 shooting standard milsurp will by far outshoot a 308 shooting milsurp bullets at 1000 yards.

MJ
January 4, 2007, 11:21 PM
I can't quote the laws of it but the Brits say the receiver flexes and over 300 yards the shots start to lay down. You tend to get a 8"X16" vertical dispersion at long rang that stay constant way out there. The guys that grew up with this know how to use it well.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/1942Savage02.jpg

:cool:

BLACK-N-TAN
January 5, 2007, 02:50 AM
mines fairly good with the milsurp stuff, but really shines with new factory loads. I haven't been able to find a good deal on surplus .303 ammo for a while, anybody have a good source? The last batch I ordered about half of them had a pretty bad shot delay, kinda freaky, took about .5 of a second from pin drop to ignition:uhoh:

MJ
January 5, 2007, 10:43 AM
You can get started with an RCBS Junior set in one caliber for $150. Shop the auctions for equipment to seve even more. You won't save on the cost of ammo but the pleasure and accurat ammo more that make up for it. Graf has good bullets and brass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/4950M204.jpg

:evil:

pccraig
January 5, 2007, 04:02 PM
MJ

I really like your set-up with the scope. Is that off-set at all ? Any issues with cartridge ejection ?

MJ
January 5, 2007, 06:41 PM
Done by Holland & Holland during WW2 but this one is a 1941 pre H&H by Enfield.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt091.jpg

:evil:

4fingermick
January 5, 2007, 10:16 PM
Were're still in the dark TXShooter. No1s, generally ordinary, No4s can be made to sing and are still used at long range shoots in England (I personally think there is lot of much better stuff available for this), no5s? My dad threw one away and got a No1 off a dead guy once, he didn't like it. The brass didn't like my dad when they came to see how the new experimental rifle went as well.:D

TX_Shooter
January 5, 2007, 10:43 PM
Wow!! Did not know that there were a lot of Brit 303 fans here.

Well heck, I got mine back today and plan to hit the range tomorrow. BTW, the ammo I got were Federals some called SHOK, any good?

Anyways, I need some assistance. I lost my clip back in the 90's and would like to know which one I need and were I can find another one, just like the post above mine. Here are some shots of my 303. It is little modified when it was my grandpa's

Here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3460.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3462.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3464.jpg

armoredman
January 5, 2007, 10:48 PM
Poor Enfield.:( Thought about returning her to original?:)
Look on the left side of the reciever, there should be some lettering there. I wopuld bet it's a Number 4, and any Number 4 magazine will fit. I got my Promag spare on close out for $9 some time ago, but I think Numrich still stocks originals for $25 or so.

TX_Shooter
January 5, 2007, 10:48 PM
Here some of the missing clip area:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3469.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3468.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hifi_homeboy/IMG_3466.jpg

mustanger98
January 5, 2007, 11:09 PM
"Poor Enfield" nothin'. If the Enfields I've been dealing with are any indication, that's a great deer rifle. Hey, it was his Grandpa's rifle. My Grandpa left me one too... he'd cut the forward wood back in front of the barrel band and it looks like he knew what he had in mind before he did it. Sentimental value being what it is, I'd say leave it like it is and enjoy it as "Grandpa's rifle".

TX_Shooter, the only thing I can think of that might make it better is you may want a cheek pad so you can get a proper cheek weld. The drop of that stock was geared towards using the issue irons. I wouldn't change the stock though.

TX_Shooter
January 5, 2007, 11:29 PM
armoredman, I don't think its poor at all. Fits me fine and I do enjoy the shorter barrel mod. This gun was my grand pa rifle, which passed away in 1997. He shot plenty of deer with this "poor ENFIELD" and which I am not sure if I will ever hunt with it, but I bet ya bottom dolla I can and will reach my goal, which I plan to do with it in the near future. Hey either way, there are plenty of 303's here that are modded. So I will take this as a compliment :cool:

==========

Mustanger. Amen to ya man!! Why be the same as the other old 303's, right? ;)

heck I never plan to sale it.... so... ya know.

OH as for Sentimental value thing. I also had a old crossman air rifle called a PUMPMASTER 760, which was bought and manufacture back in 1989, and the air seals were shot. That pumpmaster was bought for me on my bday back in 1989 by my grandpa. So anyways the other day, I called Crossman and ordered new parts. That way this gun will be handed to my 9year old boy. Yes, they still make the pumpmaster 760, and could of just got a new one. But why I didn't? .....heh sentimental value baby!!

Love my old pa, ever more then my daddy. ;)

mustanger98
January 5, 2007, 11:46 PM
Speaking of "why be the same as all the other old .303's", I just wound up with a mostly-stripped barreled receiver... this one's dated 1912 and has the slot for the magazine cut-off. I think I'm gonna build a sporter on it.:cool:

I also have a No.4Mk2 with the micrometer sight. It's in almost as issued condition. I say almost because I refinished the stock and used 6-7 coats of TruOil and it really brought the grain out. It turned out real purty.:D Shoots good too. Funny thing about this one is I ordered it from AIM Surplus as what they called a "Shooter Special" they had priced lower saying it'd be in a lot rougher shape than a collector deal they usually advertised. You should'a seen it when I unwrapped that greasy mess on the dealer's counter. The shop owner's wife told me later that at that point she thought I'd lost my mind... she said that being impressed seeing it all cleaned up and how nice it turned out.:D :D :D

Thinking of Crossman Pumpmaster 760's, I wonder if they cut the speed down on those like they did with the Red Ryder. Even without the sentimental value, it seems like the older examples are nearly always better. A case in point would be my Remington 521-T; it was built between 1947 and 1954 and has only been in my family since I bought it last winter. Some of my range buddies got to see it and one of them was observing that nobody "goes-to-town" bragging on new guns anymore; it's always an old gun somebody's bragging on.

TX_Shooter
January 5, 2007, 11:57 PM
Mustanger,


Well when I talked to the tech about my pumpmaster and asked what changed, she said that my front and rear sights were welded and the ones now are not, but everything else is the same.

In all honesty, that rifle put down a coon @ lake travis back in 1991. I shot it up by the nose into the brain. I was about 40' from it. Squeel like a pig a little, but it was dead in couple minutes. One shot.
I killed a rat, crap load of birds and some snakes in the local creek. I enjoyed the black crows the most.

mustanger98
January 6, 2007, 12:27 AM
In that case, I'd say Crossman's doing pretty good. Daisy's another story; I think they're listening to the lawyers too much. My Daddy's old Sheridan air rifle; he said pump it IIRC 9 or 10 times and it'll put a rabbit down in its tracks. I think there's a lot more to be said for the affordable range of air rifles than Guns&Ammo TV is letting on.

wcwhitey
January 6, 2007, 12:28 AM
Anyone know why the twist on the Enfield is opposite every other major country's battle rifle? A little quiz! Hint, it has to do with the Earths rotation. Bill

DougW
January 7, 2007, 10:25 AM
Enfields are wonderful. I love the .303 caliber!

Yes, I know there is an M1 and a K98 in the pics, but lots of Enfields.

MJ
January 7, 2007, 11:32 AM
It's well done sporter. I shot a sweet 1916 Lithgow last week the was done up as a iron sight hunter in Montana. I made up some 150 soft points for the owner that shot into 2" at 100 yards for him. He was wetting his pants as he had never hit anyting with surplus ammo. I wiuld take it off his hands so fast if he would part with it. He was abiout ti let it go till I gave him the ammo. When will I learn not to help?

I shot another 1916 BSA I still want but the owner passed away, great man, and I lost track of the rifle. Doubt I could have afforded it anyway.

So keep it or offer it to me some day. I'll take it piging doewn the coast.

Cheers
MJ


:evil:

TX_Shooter
January 7, 2007, 12:20 PM
About my missing British 303 clip


Been looking very hard to find a number on my rifle and there is no number 1 or 3 or whatever. Only number on my barrel are a serial number of some kind on the left side of the barrel and on the right, it says england, and looks like a 6, but really cannot make it out.

So, I been researching some and I remember talking to a gentleman @ my local gun show about my missing clip. He said there are two type of clips, one w/ a hinge type where you have a hump on the back side of the mag and the other is smooth where it does not snap in. So I was looking @ the mag compartment where the mag goes in. It seems that it is the one to where it accepts the mag that has a hump. Basically, I think it is this one:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/no4/graphics/l/2.jpg

So, if it is, then more then likely I have the #4??

Thanks

DMK
January 7, 2007, 12:47 PM
I love my old No.4s. At one time I was buying them like one eats potato chips. It is a very elegant and fun to shoot rifle.

I just wish I could find some low cost bulk ammo for 'em. :(

Limeyfellow
January 7, 2007, 01:37 PM
The sporter will work with any No4 Lee Enfield magazine. Its a fairly well done sporter which was what many people did to the rifle back in the 50s and 60s when they were selling for $10 a pop and commercial rifles were so expensive.

You should be able to find them at the likes of sportsmansguide, springfield sporters, numrich or any other dozens of places, or they are quite common on Ebay. Just make sure you don't get the No1 Lee Enfield magazine as its quite different. Normally sell for about $10 to $30.

Federal make some nice ammo. I had a couple of boxes through it, normally though I either reload or stick with cheaper S&B rounds or Remington UMC. Occassionally you can run across surplus for really cheap. The Greek stuff is rather nice. Avoid any Pakistani surplus and stuff with PMC on it. Not worth the hassle..

TX_Shooter
January 7, 2007, 01:51 PM
limefellow,


Not sure what you mean by Sporter, is that the type of mag/clip?

Can you guide me to a link to at least know which clip I can buy then?


I shot off remington Lokt core ammo and federals. I really loved the federals in my 303.

mustanger98
January 7, 2007, 03:14 PM
Been looking very hard to find a number on my rifle and there is no number 1 or 3 or whatever. Only number on my barrel are a serial number of some kind on the left side of the barrel and on the right, it says england, and looks like a 6, but really cannot make it out.

So, I been researching some and I remember talking to a gentleman @ my local gun show about my missing clip. He said there are two type of clips, one w/ a hinge type where you have a hump on the back side of the mag and the other is smooth where it does not snap in. So I was looking @ the mag compartment where the mag goes in. It seems that it is the one to where it accepts the mag that has a hump. Basically, I think it is this one:



So, if it is, then more then likely I have the #4??

TX_Shooter, From the photos you've posted, I'm sure you have the #4. I say that because I have on too. On your's, here it would say "No.4Mk1" is covered by the scope mount. The magazine, which you're calling a clip... countdown to "vernacular nazis"... anyway, it does snap in so the hump on the rear engages the magazine catch/release and that button, regardless of whether it's a No.1 or No.4, is inside the trigger guard ahead of the trigger.

If you go to Numrich Gun Parts, they have listings for the #4 among other Enfields. Look under "SMLE" as that's where they list rifles No.1 through No.5.

TX_Shooter
January 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
Thank you. I found it now :D . Sorry about the phrase, never meant to offend anyone nor I mean to use that word %%%% improper.

Vairochana
January 7, 2007, 05:32 PM
Gday-
Contact Lawrance Ordanance in Victoria, Australia- they will fix you up with anything Enfield at a good price.
GOOGLE them for link

garanddaddy
January 7, 2007, 08:16 PM
My first Brit 303 was a Mk 5 jungle carbine scoped I bought through mail order in 1963 for $25.00 when I was in Alaska, then gave it away:banghead: . Then when I came back from overseas in 1966 bought a sporterized No4 Mk1 from Monkey Wards
for about $20.00 and I have seen them in stacked in barrels for $15.00 that was the good old days.

Shot a lot of deer with my 303 don't think you can beat it. Most people didn't like the 303 because it was 2 piece stock and that never bothered me.

Sunray
January 7, 2007, 08:47 PM
It's a magazine you need, not a clip, for a bubba'd No. 4 Mk I. Gunparts lists issue 10 round mags at $21.95.

Leedavisone
January 7, 2007, 08:56 PM
My father sent off for a mail order 303 (those were the days) back in 1958, and we have a 303 "jungle carbine". I haven't a clue as to whether that is the right term. Bolt action, short, with a flash supressor at the end of the barrel. We shot it back about 1960. yeah... those were the days. LBD

MJ
January 8, 2007, 10:50 AM
an X-military arm that is modified to remove the war horse look and lighten the weight. Sporting rifle=sporter.

Like this #5 sporter project I may never finish.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5t003.jpg

This came to me as a Bubba. Bubba=moron with hacksaw. You should learn these terms as they are so very impOtant. More ebon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5t004.jpg

If not then I can alway rebarrel it and return it to #4T spec. and get MO MONEY.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5t006.jpg

:cool:

ithacalover
January 8, 2007, 07:44 PM
I love Lee-Enfield's but I was always told to stay away from the jungle carbines due to their "wandering zero". Not something I want to deal with. I know the Mk.III's and Mk. IV's are quite accurate. The early MK3's came with volley fire sights, I believe, for annoying German's at very long ranges. Can't say that would be acurate, but nuisance fire is better than not hitting anything.

wcwhitey
January 8, 2007, 08:43 PM
MJ, in my opinion you are building the perfect Enfield. Very nice work! I gave away my last .303 to my nephew as his first high power rifle along with 400 rounds or surplus ammo. You just got my juices flowing with those pictures. I just kick myself for not buying a case of the unissued mummy wraped NO4's that were going for around $200 in '86.

mustanger98
January 8, 2007, 09:28 PM
The early MK3's came with volley fire sights, I believe, for annoying German's at very long ranges. Can't say that would be acurate, but nuisance fire is better than not hitting anything.

My understand of the volley sights is that they were phased out after 1914 or '15. That said, I recall reading about how a British outfit threw down on the Germans from long range and laid down the volley fire... they said that German outfit they all thought they were up against a machine gun battalion. No, it don't promote individual marksmanship, but sooner or later some of those bullets addressed "to whom it may concern" had to connect. The rest at least promoted the enemy keeping their heads down.

My Daddy and I... I recall we were discussing British Enfields and the ammo several years ago... he said most of this older military stuff wasn't geared so much towards individual accuracy so much as making the enemy keep their heads down till somebody could work their way in there to shoot 'em up close.

MJ
January 8, 2007, 10:09 PM
I didn't know the paper was important. These where missplaced for five or more years and while cleaning the barn I found them in a locker and the mice had pee'd the paper and slings till they rotted.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt021a.jpg

I have had some good results with the #5 and never a zero problem but then 150 lb Ferral pig is 46" long at 80 yards. What the heck do you want? Jungle carbine gents, ever fight in a jungle? I have. The pictures show the #4T receiver with five round magazine and #32 scope. The next picture is with the 30mm tube Tasco world class. The ten round #4 magazine can be seen here, The SPORTER from Texas has had the wrist scrubbed so he can't see any info there. A common practice of Bubba.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5t001.jpg

MJ

TX_Shooter
January 14, 2007, 02:27 PM
Have any of you .303 owners ever tried the ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY
ENFIELD RIFLE STOCKS (monte carol-stock)?

If so, is it worth a hoot? Thanks

vzenmn
January 14, 2007, 03:07 PM
I bought a new forend for my 4mk1 due to the old one being loose in the action causing inaccuracy but it does not have a recoil bolt (or whatever you call the metal thing on the rear of the forend). does anybody know where to get one?

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