"New in box" definition of online retailers


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spacejunkiehsv
January 4, 2007, 07:29 PM
It may seem like a stupid question, but I've asked them before.

I've been looking a lot for a pistol. Many online retailers list their guns as "New in box." Does that automatically mean that they are talking about the factory box with an extra magazine?
I'm particularly interested in Bud's Gun Shop (www.budsgunshop.com) and R&R Arms (www.rrarms.com).

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Baba Louie
January 4, 2007, 07:58 PM
Typically, the answer is YES. New in box should have everything as it came from the factory, papers, tools (if any), lock and/or fired brass, gun in paper or plastic.
You SHOULD be the first owner as well... tho sometimes you wonder.

akodo
January 4, 2007, 08:07 PM
new in box means the gun has never been fired, and comes with the original factory box, and all extras that were originally in that box. Not all manufacturers include 1 extra mag.

The question is, customer A buys a gun, takes it out of box, looks at it, puts it back in box, puts box in sock drawer. 2 years later he sells it. Seller then puts it on auction site as 'NIB' I guess I am fine with that definition. To me, NEW = never been fired, IN BOX = includes the box, and all the accessories the manufacturer puts in there.

ArfinGreebly
January 4, 2007, 08:53 PM
We have a store in town that differentiates New/NIB/Unfired.

I found a Ruger MkII stainless bull-barrel that looked good. Tag said "UNFIRED" so I asked what they meant. In this case, it meant, "actually new, bought by someone and stored, original box & accessories lost."

We tore it down right there. If that thing had ever been fired beyond factory testing, someone had cleaned it with perfect tools and solvents, restored the factory finish to all the little bits, and reassembled it without leaving any discoloration to any surface usually exposed to heat/combustion.

When I told the wife I'd found her new MkII, I told her it was NEW, never been kissed. Told her the box had been lost. She said, "as long as it's new, I don't care." Neither did I. Bought it on the spot. Hard to find a Mark II with no miles on it.

Their "NIB" designation means "complete, as shipped from the factory, with all accessories and manual, and unfired."

Their designation of "NEW" indicates that it's never been sold retail. May have box. May have manual and/or accessories. In one case, they had everything EXCEPT the flipping box. Box had gotten lost in an inventory screw-up.

In my world, all three of those designations mean "virgin gun -- never been kissed."

They also have a category "LIKE NEW" or "AS NEW" to designate something known to have only a box or two of traffic. They've got a lovely 686+ with a 2.5 or 3-inch barrel that they sold, got it back the following week after one box of ammo, traded for a larger (.44 mag) piece. Fifty rounds only. Tagged "LIKE NEW" and has original box, accessories.

Of course, this store isn't online, it's strictly brick-n-mortar and face-to-face so I get to kick the tires when there's any doubt.

I'd need serious recommendations before I'd trust the labeling of an online outfit.

Car Knocker
January 4, 2007, 09:17 PM
new in box means the gun has never been fired,
Many times, a gun is fired once or twice by the manufacturer, often to satisfy the requirements of states that require a fired cartridge case be submitted for the "ballistic fingerprint" database.

dlcrouch
January 4, 2007, 09:30 PM
I also have thought NIB means the manufacturer will honor the warranty

Standing Wolf
January 4, 2007, 10:51 PM
All too often, "NIB" on online auctions means it's a tired old gun that's been rode hard, put up wet, and dumped in a box, any box.

Aguila Blanca
January 5, 2007, 12:13 AM
The Blue Book of Gun Values defines "NIB" as never previously sold at retail, and unfired except for factory proofing.

Once it has been sold at retail, it is no longer "new." At that point, if it remains unfired (or hardly fired), it is described as "LIKE new in box." Likewise, once someone beyond the factory puts any rounds through it, it is now longer "new." It is "used," even if not previously sold at retail.

However, I'm sure that not all sellers are ethical enough to note the distiction. I think Bud's is. If Bud's advertises a pistol as NIB, I'd be comfortable believing that it is, in fact, new.

dfaugh
January 5, 2007, 09:25 AM
At that point, if it remains unfired (or hardly fired), it is described as "LIKE new in box."

Usually abbreviated as LNIB, but rarely used in the gung world, for some reason. Its a common abbreviation for a lot of things. I deal in Surplus and Closeout Merchandise, and we often open boxes to make sure of content ro check for damage, so while the box may have been opened, its still "NIB" Sometimes we deal in returns, and check these more carefully, and would sell them as "LNIB". In reality there's little difference from our perspective, but inn the case of a gun, whether it had been fired or not woulld make a difference between "NIB" and "LNIB". In fact, once it had been sold, even if unfired, I would condider it "LNIB", but not "NIB".

spacejunkiehsv
January 5, 2007, 12:30 PM
Last night I ordered a pistol from Bud's. It is a Ruger P95PR15. That is a 9mm, blued, 15+1, polymer frame DA/SA pistol with an accessory rail, exposed hammer, and a manual safety (instead of the decocker). It comes in a plastic case with two 15 round magazines.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_49_75/products_id/18161

The condition is listed as "Factory new." In the description below the picture of it, they say "New in box."

I think I'll be ok. It was $352.xx for it and a Hogue slip-on grip after shipping and them adding the 3% charge for using a credit card. I have spoken to a local dealer that is charging me another $20 for a transfer fee. So, I'll have a reliable, new gun with comfortable grips for $372.xx.

The P95 barely beat out the Taurus 24/7 Pro 9mm, with me anyways. It won because I didn't really read anything bad about the Ruger, but lots of magazine problems were reported with the Taurus.

That's not bad. Hopefully it won't take too long to get it. Kentucky to Alabama isn't that far anyway.

DMK
January 5, 2007, 12:41 PM
Once it has been sold at retail, it is no longer "new." At that point, if it remains unfired (or hardly fired), it is described as "LIKE new in box." Really though, what does it matter if it had been sold before?

Even a brand new gun, in the box, with all the stuff, in your local gunshop, it was bought by the gunstore and has likely been sitting there a while, taken out of the case, pawed over by who knows how many prospective buyers and tire kickers, maybe had the slide dropped on it a few times if it's a semi.

If somebody bought it, took it home and left in the gunsafe for a few months, then decided to trade it in, what does it matter? As long as it still has the box, all the stuff and has never been fired since the factory?

I'd only consider it LNIB if it had been fired a few times (and I mean a few times, like a magfull or a cylinder or two.)

Jkwas
January 16, 2007, 08:55 PM
I purchased a Taurus MilPro pt111 from buds. Gun was perfect, transaction was very smooth, and it arrived in about 4days(to Florida). I would use them again.

gfd_703
January 17, 2007, 10:38 AM
Just watch Bud's. I purchased a new S&W M&P15 from them and it came in without any paperwork. I was there when my FFL opened the shipping box.
After 4 emails I have recieved no responce from them. The weapon was new and in the correct box it just did not have any of the Smith things(warranty card,instructions, ect). I think it my be S&W's fault but I bought it from Bud's,they should take care of it.

gfd_703
January 23, 2007, 11:54 AM
My apologies to Bud's. There was a mix up in the Emails. I was contacted after I posted here and we worked out the lost paperwork. I found out that their electronic workload sometimes gets the best of them. I can not say enough good things about how quickly they shipped my order and kept me in the loop on it's progress. I WILL buy from them again and will spread the good word about them. They definitely took The High Road to keep a customer happy. Thanks

BigG
January 23, 2007, 12:12 PM
NIB = Only took it to the range a couple of times, fired it, let my friends fire it, a total of a few boxes of ammo. Nobody dropped it. Put it back in the box. Still have the papers. :neener: j/k

It really shouldn't have been sold retail before.

22-rimfire
January 24, 2007, 01:05 PM
Buds mostly sells new firearms. New firearms that have never been owned by a private individual. Yes, I know they sell a few used guns too.

I prefer the ANIB description "As New in the Box" to guns which show no indication of being fired other than test firing at the factory. The gun should have 100% of its finish and no marks such as a drag mark on the cylinder on a revolver. The box should be the original box which came with the firearm. If the box is not the original box, then descriptive wording should always be used to describe the box as being a correct box for the gun, but not the original box.

The importance of the little details on a firearm condition really only applies if the buyer is a collector and not planning on shooting the gun.

I bought a NIB S&W 41 Mag Mountain Gun at a retail gun shop which had a drag mark on the cylinder and it was described as new. I was planning on shooting the gun, so the marks did not bother me particularly.

Deavis
January 24, 2007, 04:25 PM
Everything I bought from Bud's that said factory new was factory new. They are easy to deal with and if they say it is NIB, then, based on my experiences, it is, as one FFL liked to tell me "packed by monkeys, untouched by human hands until now".

Bobhwry
January 24, 2007, 06:18 PM
To me NIB means from the factory with all documentation and advertised accessories. A gun that has sat in a retailers case and handled many times ie: slide racked, cylinder turned, dry fired, or generally used as a demo is no longer NIB. Beware of terms like LNIB, mint, gently used,safe queen, appears unfired, or the percentages used to describe a guns condition. They are subjective at best and usually misleading.

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