[Fun2Shoot]

Since I have been having "Gotta have new 1911 45acp fever" lately, I have been asking myself this question more and more.

That is, am I really after a new handgun in the hard hitting 45acp alone or am I really interested in the 1911 platform primarily and the 45acp is secondary and just happens to be most popular in that platform?

Here's why I say that. While I was looking at a gun case stoked with 45acp 1911's from S&W, Springer, Colt and Para-Ord, there was a lone Sig P220 45acp that really drew my eye to it. I don't know quite why, but my brain was saying: So you want to return to 45acp for your HD gun do ya? Why go old fashioned with a 90+ year old design, get modern guy, go Sig P220 in 45acp!

So do you think that it is mostly the 1911's platform that is the magnet of the handgun's attaction or is it really that the 45acp is such a legendary stopper, that the platform is not really that important?

[Grape Ape]

My next 1911 will probably be a 10mm. I just love the ergonomics and esthetics.

[Vern Humphrey]

1911 45acp - Is it the caliber or platform that attracts most?

Yep.:D

It's both -- the .45 ACP is a great cartridge, and the M1911 is probably the finest fighting pistol ever designed. As many a Moro, Villanista, Cacao, German, Japanese, North Korean, Chinese, Viet Namese, etc., will testify.

[Glockfan.45]

For me it was both. I already had .45acp in my collection, and the 1911 feels so right, looks so good, and shoots so well. The .45acp is an accurate cartridge, and in a platform as accurate as the 1911 makes for one fine firearm indeed.

[ACP230]

I'd have to say both too.

I have shot the 1911, and variations, since 1969.
Used one in Bullseye, Practical, Bowling Pin, and Steel Plate matches.
Carried on in the woods while hunting and fishing, sometimes as a .22 with a kit on it, sometimes as a .45.

I have not had to use one in self-defense, but one has served as a house gun off and on, for years. I wouldn't be without some 1911s if there was any way to avoid it.

The .45 ACP is one of the easiest cartridges to make good handloads for in my experience. I have made plinking .45s, match .45s, bowling pin stomper .45s, and .45 ammo for a couple of .45 subguns. No real problems in all that reloading and good accuracy across the board.

[f4t9r]

For me it was both. I already had .45acp in my collection, and the 1911 feels so right, looks so good, and shoots so well. The .45acp is an accurate cartridge, and in a platform as accurate as the 1911 makes for one fine firearm indeed

Words well spoken !!!!!!!!

[Parker Dean]

Platform for me, for all the reasons already mentioned. I prefer them in 10mm, but will "settle" for a .45 in a pinch

[Texas Colt]

Another vote for both - platform and caliber. It's just an awesome combination.

[Rod B]

Both the 1911 design & the .45ACP cartridge are what makes it so desirable,

[Stevie-Ray]

It's the platform. Of the 3 1911s I have, only 2 are .45 ACP. Don't get me wrong, .45 ACP is my favorite caliber, but I would love to have a 9mm and a .38 Super in the 1911 platform to go along with my 10mm.

[D-Man]

Definitely the platform for me.

I picked up a S&W 1911 in .45, and was hooked. Looking for my 2nd one, I went with a Colt MKIV Series 80 in 9MM for the cheaper ammo.

[longeyes]

Both. It is a great cartridge and the 1911 allows you to shoot it well.

Then again so does my Glock 30.

[Primersinmyshoe]

The 1911 is a classic. The 45acp is an excellent cartridge. Put them together and you've got perfection. I am always buying 'em. Can't have enough.

[Sistema1927]

John Browning's genius is seen in both.

[RyeDaddy]

I would vote for both as well. I was originally attracted to the cartridge itself, and was turned off by 1911's, and so I bought a couple of USP 45's. Aftera while, being that I liked the 45 acp, it seemed natural to go back to the roots, and get a 1911, so I got a Desert Warrior.

First I was attracted to the cartridge, but that made me interested in the platform.

It would seem to me that the 1911 would be chosen by people who like the 1911, for the 1911 itself instead of the round it fires, :flame suit on: as there are many more reliable choices out there chambered for the old 45, my USP's are a perfect example, but the 1911 is still QUITE poular.

[treebeard]

The platform AND the fact that the 1911 and .45 cartridge are a well balanced match. Out of all the calibers I have shot I think a 4.25" or 5" 1911 fits the .45 cartridge perfectly. :D :D

[ugaarguy]

Platform. The M1911 has a slim grip at any angle that suits me well. The triggers are very good, inherent to its plunger, rather than hinge, design, and the way it, the hammer and sear interface; which gives them the potential to be excellent with a little work. The smooth arc and positive click of the perfectly positioned thumb safety caps off the feel of the package. Read Tuner & Fuff's posts on the design's reliability testing and you'll gain a deeper respect for the weapon - I did.

Cartridge. The platform sold me, the cartridge keeps me coming back. I like how it does its work. It may be a slow moving bullet, but it's wide & heavy, so it stall packs a punch. It's low pressure, so there's less wear on the gun, less flash, and less blast. The lower pressure equates higher reload counts. The big straight wall brass is easy to spot, easy to pick up, and easy to reload. It's a great cartridge to have as standard.

I guess the whole of the package is greater than the sum of its parts...

...though I admit that I dream of owning 1911s in 10mm and .38 Super. So the platform wins out in the end :D

[wooderson]

Platform more than caliber.

[Simon Yu]

For me it's both, but probably a bit more the caliber. As someone that's still pretty new to shooting but enjoys history and has read a lot, the .45 round has appeal as something that's been proven without as much attention needed to specific loads, which is an impression I've gotten from some other calibers. That's what drew me to look at a .45 pistol for my second handgun (the first being a .22).

From there, it came down to the 1911 platform just fitting better than most .45s. I've got small hands but long fingers so the grip on non-single stack .45s just doesn't feel comfortable most of the time. The slim profile just makes the gun fit my hand like a glove. Which is why I'm now down about $900 and waiting on a Springfield Armory 1911 once all the MD paperwork clears.

So for a computer geek without much background in shooting but a lot of time to read, I suppose caliber might be a bit more important since I didn't really think about the platform in any other caliber until I did reading the past few weeks. Once the caliber is settled on, the 1911 kind of starts jumping out as an option.

[Redhat]

Looks, history, caliber...1911 has always been my favorite since I was a kid!

As a practical matter, they have great triggers and are flat for good concealment.

In spite of all the tactical plastic these days, it's still the only pistol I would not consider selling.

[JP1954]

For me it's the cartridge...I have long owned an AMT hardballer stainless steel 1911 clone (the patent on the original 1911 expired quite awhile ago.) It is identical to the original 1911 with the exception of a tighter barrell bushing (the original design had a loose barrell bushing) and its made out of stainless steel. It's a great gun and produces tight groups. That being said, I acquired a Ruger P90 45ACP a few years ago. I like it much more. Lighter, better balanced, even tighter groups and I feel comfortable with it having a round in the chamber. The safety is designed for the uncocked position and you can shoot the first round in double action mode if necessary;) .


"Fast is fine, accurate is final. The real trick is learning how to take your time when you are in a hurry." --Wyatt Earp

[jsonnier]

Its the heritage .....We all had one are were exposed to one as kids .

[jsonnier]

That deep loud ka-boom and that big chunk of lead.....What more could you want ?

[Baphomet]

I'd have to say both as well. I remember the first time I shot a 1911 in .45 and knowing - in an instant - this is "IT".

Everything about the combination appeals to me: that big, gaping bore; those fat, stubby rounds; the authoritative - yet utterly manageable - recoil, the endless array of options to make my favorite 1911 distinctive, or at the very least, exactly what I want.

It's a synergistic combination I think, of both platform and cartridge. Something rare and special, like some kind of planetary alignment that only happens once every thousand years or so.

Edit: Or, it could be "that deep, loud ka-boom and that big chunk of lead..." (Well put!!)

[Eightball]

...is it an "either/or" thing? Both, obviously :D

[Skywarp]

Platform.


I like the 1911 pattern for it's ability to be configured for the shooter.



The 45 ACP round is a decent round. Not the hammer of god that some people make it out to be. 10mm is a better all around round.

[Walkalong]

Both for sure. A 1911 in another caliber is fine, but the .45 1911 is just IT!

[1911 guy]

For me, the draw is platform. I could buy other pistols chambered in.45acp, but they don't fit as well, have lousy triggers for the most part, are usually bulkier and none have the classic lines of the 1911.

I appreciate the caliber, but am under no illusions about it's effectiveness. It's still only a handgun, after all. If I'm expecting a gunfight, I own several rifles.

[shaggycat]

I think it is the sysnthesis of the two. They fit each other well, the big and slow .45 just feels rights coming out of the barrel of a 1911.

[Dobe]

But I enjoy a 1911 in 9mm also. The .45 ACP round is more than suitable for defense, and is a great range round also. It can be as accurate as any round at conventional handgun ranges, yet the recoil is quiet modest. That is a big factor when spending a day at the range.

The platform itself is a big draw for me. The 1911 seems to just fit into my shooting hand naturaly. When I place my finger on the trigger, there is no search or readjustment. Everything is where my anatomy knows it should be. The 1911 feels like a handgun should feel.

John M., you did me proud.

Dobe

[10X]

Both
Primarily the platform does everything well. Fits the hand well, the safety is easy and sure almost everyone likes it, triggers can be wonderful, especially in a target gun, sights are fine, better in a target gun, accuracy can be terrific.

It is nearly perfect and little changed since 1911.

Secondly, The 45 ACP is a great caliber for defense and for target. That is a big accomplishment.

[Vern Humphrey]

My take on the .45 ACP and the M1911 is simple.

Take any gun you think is as good, and take it to the Phillippines to fight the Moros. Then take it to Veracruz, Mexico, to Haiti, into Sonora in pursuit of Pancho Villa, into the trenches of France, into Archangle and along the Trans-Siberian railway, into Nicaragua and other South and Central American nations, into Guadalcanal, wade ashore on all the islands of the Pacific, land in North Africa, cross the beaches in Normandy, take it to Korea, into the triple-canopy jungle of Viet Nam, and into the deserts of Iraq.

Come back and tell me how your gun did. ;)

[Skywarp]

People took muskets to the New world to fight the godless savages there, into the frozen wastelands of russia, into darkest africa, and thewilds of borneo.

We dont use muskets anymore.

[Steve2237]

Both of course.:)

[Vern Humphrey]

People took muskets to the New world to fight the godless savages there, into the frozen wastelands of russia, into darkest africa, and thewilds of borneo.

We dont use muskets anymore.

You can show a quantum technological jump between 18th and 19th Century muskets and modern rifles. But you can't show such a quantum jump between the M1911 and more recent handgun designs.

[michael_aos]

Platform.

I have them in 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP.

Mike

[BullfrogKen]

I like the platform. I have Commanders that shoot .45 ACP, 38 Super, 9x23, and 9mm. Its definitely the platform. Frankly, I like shooting 38 Super through it the most.

[Angus Podgorney]

Curious, Just when did the 1911 go to Veracruz and how many 1911's served in the Moro uprising which was all but over by 1911?

[MCgunner]

I dumped the 1911 a while back, but replaced it with a DA auto in .45 ACP. So, I like the caliber (though I ain't in LOVE with it), but don't care much for the 1911 platform. My only two large autoloading handguns are 9mm and .45ACP, both Rugers. I own around 20 handguns. Only a .380, 2 9mms, and the .45 are center fire autos, the rest being either rimfires or revolvers or both. I'm a revolver guy at heart.

There is one 1911ish gun I wouldn't mind having, but it's out of my budget. It is no longer produced. It's called a Coonan and it's chambered in one of my more favorite calibers. :D

The 45 ACP round is a decent round. Not the hammer of god that some people make it out to be. 10mm is a better all around round.

Yep, the 10 is probably the best auto caliber to be chambered in a reasonably sized handgun. I don't own one, but wouldn't mind owning one. Not a big variety of handguns offered in it, so it'd probably have to be a 1911. It's a lot of round for that old platform, though. The Delta had its share of problems IIRC putting up with the power of that load. The 10 puts magnum revolver power in a semi auto platform. Lots of factory 10mm might have been neutered, but I handload, so that doesn't concern me. :D

[biere]

Platform first.

Grip size, trigger, weight of an all steel firearm, easy to operate safeties, accurate, reliable, and basically it just is what I think a handgun should be.

It took me a while to get around to owning one in 45acp.

My first 45acp was a glock 36 and my first 1911 was a charles daily in 45acp that I owned years and years ago. Both got sold/traded off because they just were not what I wanted in a handgun.

If I had bought a nice 1911 back when I got that charles daily I most likely would still be where I am at today.

I don't knock the 45acp round, but I can get pretty stuck on the 10mm round so that was my first 1911. 2nd 1911 was a target kimber 22lr 1911 for cheap practice.

Give me 6-9 months and I expect a 9mm 1911 will be kicking around here as well. Then again I might stick a silencer on something instead of buying the 9mm 1911.

Until I mess with a 38 super at the range I won't be worried about that part of the sickness. I am not reloading 10mm and 45acp right now so I see 38 super as too expensive for right now. But given time I expect one to wander in looking for a place to live.

All it takes is time and some one being all nice and kind, while laughing wildly inside, at the range asking if I would like to try out their 1911 in 38 super.

They enjoy watching the sickness spread.

But then again, I do the same thing. :scrutiny:

[BigG]

It's the combo - kinda like beer and pretzels. ;) Consider, John Browning was one of the original designers who designed both his guns and the ammunition they took. That's quite a thing when you think about it. Georg Luger was the same.

[Geronimo45]

The caliber - equal to the old .45 Long Colt. Available in numerous HP loads. The fact that it sounds like a cannon. The fact that the kick is - as another poster said, authoritative.
The platform - been around for close to a hundred years, simple to use, no tools to pull it to pieces, mountains of aftermarket accessories - lasers, grips, sights, barrels, compensators, bushings, guide rods, magazines...

[10-Ring]

I believe it's both. The 1911 is a great all around platform and the 45 acp is just so versatile for many applications...
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r208/10-Ring/P1020712.jpg

[gjblanchard]

John Browning designed pretty close to the perfect pistol from an ergonomic standpoint.

The caliber is inherently accurate and enough power to get the job done. As my cousin, who served from North Africa to the Hertgen forest in WWII, said, "a hit with the 9 mm would often go unnoticed until after the battle, but a hit with the 45 would pick a man up and throw him right down."

I think that says it all.

Gary

[rojoko]

Both,

I have small hands and frankly if there's any pistol that lends itself to being modified to the shooter, it's the 1911 platform.....

Also the .45 acp has well over a 70 year service record that can't be beat, long standing in performance (although there really is not magic round), and versatility.. heel of a fine cartirdge for self defense... we even used to shoot it out to 100/200 yards (although 200 was stretching it)..

Why do you think the spec operators have all gone back to .45? SOmething even LAPD FINALLY figured out after having to put 7-15 rounds into a person to take him down!

9 just doesn't do the job.. not anywhere near as consistently, the .40 is a fine cartirdge and a nice comprimise.. but come heck or high water... make mine a 1911 .45, especially if it's been tuned right, by a good gun mechanic (and they've started passing on!)

[the pistolero]

I like both the platform and the caliber, but if I absolutely had to pick one it'd be the platform. Slim and trim, fits in my hand like it was made for it, and a trigger that breaks like glass. Call it the gold standard for the defensive sidearm. :D I like the .45 ACP as well, but I'd love to get another 10mm 1911 before it's all said and done -- most likely a Dan Wesson Razorback.
FWIW, I have a Ruger P90 as well (GREAT pistol, btw), and I thought the 1911 was a much better-balanced pistol as far as weight distribution was concerned. To each his own, though...

[rojoko]

Dear Mr Humphreys..

Stop picking on these poor people or else we'll have to call out Uncle Herbie on you!!

Shame on you!! Trying to get people to think that guns are good and that the .45 is better then the Lord almighty 9er!!

How could so many Germans have been wrong?
How can so many politicians be wrong
How could NATO be so wrong
How could all those actors on TV be wrong??

Why in the hell am I asking so many stupids question!!

Howdy Vern!

Finally figured this out I hope!!

Folks obviously I'm kidding, Vern and I have known each other for many many years now..

[JLStorm]

I enjoy the 1911's but I carry a 45 acp because of the versatility of the round. I guess a good test for you might be to consider a 1911 in 9mm such as SA or think about a sig in .40 and if it REALLY bothers you to even think of either of the platforms in other calibers than I guess you have at least part of your answer...

[Vern Humphrey]

Curious, Just when did the 1911 go to Veracruz and how many 1911's served in the Moro uprising which was all but over by 1911?

The M1911 was first issued in 1912, had its baptism of fire at Bagsak Mountain in the Phillippines in 1913, was used in the Veracruz expedition of 1914, in Haiti in 1915 (Hanniken killed Charlemagne with an M1911), was carried and used in the Mexican Punitive Expedition in 1916, and went into the trenches in France in 1917.

[McCall911]

It's both IMO. The .45 ACP caliber has proven itself useful in a wide variety of applications, from small handguns to long guns. And 1911-style pistols have been, and still are, available in a number of calibers, from .22 to that .460 thingy. (Rowland?)

[BigG]

As H. W. McBride said, in A RIFLEMAN WENT TO WAR, a Luger was just fine for knockout power. When they were doing a patrol one of the men picked up a Luger in a pistol belt from a deserted trench. Upon being surprised by a sentry, he swung the holstered Luger by the belt and brained the German. As far as using it as a shootin arn, however, McBride stated the 9mm Luger was not a good killer.

This was in WWI, about 80 years ago, and people now are finding the LEOs have to empty their 9mm Glocks to stop a suspect. Something has been lost, and I think it is common sense. :eek: :uhoh:

[20yearvet]

For me it isn't really a .45 unless it's a 1911 platform. In other words, if I'm going to have a .45, it's going to be a 1911 (which I have). It's the same but different for 9mm - my 9mm is a Browning Hi-Power and nothing else.

[BigG]

my 9mm is a Browning Hi-Power and nothing else.

Mine is a LUGER. Nyeh nyeh! :neener:

[20yearvet]

Quote:
my 9mm is a Browning Hi-Power and nothing else.

Mine is a LUGER. Nyeh nyeh!

Oh yeah! Well my .40 is a Beretta 96. So there!:neener:

[Angus Podgorney]

The M1911 was first issued in 1912, had its baptism of fire at Bagsak Mountain in the Phillippines in 1913,

Thank you Sir... ;)

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
The M1911 was first issued in 1912, had its baptism of fire at Bagsak Mountain in the Phillippines in 1913,

Thank you Sir...

The Army has a series of historical paintings called, "The US Army in Action" -- it includes scenes like Washington's attack on Trenton, storming the Remagen bridge in WWII, and so on. One of the paintings is "Knocking out the Moros" and depicts the hand-to-hand fighting on Bagsak Mountain.

[RNB65]

1911 and .45ACP are like Abbot and Costello.

Apart, they're amusing but not fascinating.

Together, they're magic!!! :)

[Surefire]

I love the (.45 acp) cartridge, but am NOT a fan of the (1911) gun.

YMMV

[BigG]

Vern - not to be a spoil sport but, I think some of those Army paintings have anachronisms. I don't think the M1911 ever made to Bangsak Mountain or wherever you are quoting. They wree using SAAs and 38 Army Colts, I think. There was quite a discussion about the validity of the autoloader depicted. Although I'm a big fan of the Colt/Browning pistol, as you probably know.

[JP1954]

I heard it was said that the motivation for the development of the 1911 came from a conflict in the Phillipines in which some group( I 'don't remember the name....maybe it was these Moros u guys ar talkin bout) had this habit of mounting a crazed, maniacal frontal attack which was answered with US Army 38 cal sidearms. It was quickly observed that some of these attackers would absord up to 6 rounds and would eventually die but not before lopping off the head ( or some other lethal action) of said shooter. These experiences lead to a request for a sidearm with more "knockdown" power.
The 1911 came about as a result....This has always been my understanding of the genesis of the 1911....Has my understanding been correct????

[Vern Humphrey]

The Moros, who are muslims, practiced suicide attacks even then. The normal approach was to go through a ceremony where they took an oath to kill a Christian, supposedly took certain drugs, and had their bodies wrapped with bandages (to retard bleeding.) These "oath-bound" terrorists (the Spanish called them that -- "Juramentados") would then dress normally, concealing a Barong or Bolo under their clothing, walk into a group of Christians (read "Americans"), and suddenly explode in a frenzy of hacking and chopping. The .38 Long Colt was a notable failure in putting these people down quickly enough to minimize the damage.

In 1902, two Army Colonels, Thompson (Ordnance Corps) and LaGarde (Medical Corps) conducted grisley experiments where they shot corpses, beeves and a horse with many different guns and calibers to determine what characteristics a good defensive round should have. They recommended nothing smaller than .44. In 1904, John M. Browning developed the prototype of what is now called the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol Cartridge (ACP). Tests began to select a pistol to fire this new cartridge.

The Army, in the meantime was re-issuing the old Model 1873 Single Action Colts. In 1909, they ran out and adopted the Colt New Service in .45 Colt as the Model 1909. It was short-lived -- in 1911, the Colt entry (designed by John Browning) won the competition for the new service automatic pistol and the rest is history.

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern - not to be a spoil sport but, I think some of those Army paintings have anachronisms. I don't think the M1911 ever made to Bangsak Mountain or wherever you are quoting. They wree using SAAs and 38 Army Colts, I think. There was quite a discussion about the validity of the autoloader depicted. Although I'm a big fan of the Colt/Browning pistol, as you probably know.

I'm not citing the Army paintings as my authority, merely pointing them out as an item of interest. The early M1911s were issued to the units in combat -- which were in the Philippines, just as they had earlier got the M1909 revolvers first.

[carterbeauford]

For me, it's a number of factors, but what it all comes down to is if it 'aint broke, don't fix it. Your opinion may vary, especially if you are a polymer fan, but in my opinion I don't think we have ever seen a better, or ever will see a better combat handgun.

I spent some serious time behind my 1911 yesterday and am going to have a hard time carrying anything else from now on. Never have I made as many successful head shots on a silhouette target as I did with a 1911 in my hands. It just feels so right in every way. Can't really put it into words. They are amazing pistols and John M. Browning was a man not from this earth.