[MatthewVanitas]

Running the Search engine, it seems that balisongs haven't been addressed much on this board. It appears that BladeForums.com has the most flippers, with their own sub-forum. Actually, the Bali sub-forum is by far the most active of all BFC niche-forums.


I had always dismissed these knives as something carried by actors playing gang members in crappy 1980s movies. However, after stumbling across the bali sub-forum and reading up on the subject, it's a pretty interesting design.

The main upside is the sheer simplicity and durability of the design. With only the split handles, blade, and two pins, you get a folder that is only slightly less sturdy than a fixed blade.

All the acrobatics that can be employed to open it are, of course, just for fun and skill. My Benchmade Mini-Grip opens even faster, and unlike the bali is legal for carry in TX. As with auto-knives, some twit lawmaker saw too many B-movies and decided that crime could be eliminated in America by banning particular types of pocketknives. Fortunately, they were correct, resulting in the crime-free nation in which we now live.

I do like the whole juggling thing though, so I'm getting a used Spyderco Spyderfly. If I like it, I'll spring for a Benchmade trainer (competely rounded/unsharpened/skeltonized "blade"), so I can carry it in public and flip it when not in too public of areas. Should give me something to fidget with; I'm one of those people who just doesn't like sitting still.

Balisongs: because at my age, I'd look dang silly with a yo-yo.


http://www.gettier.org/knifepics/pc_brass_utility.jpg

-MV

[boredelmo]

Matt, I've seen you fidget a lot at the range.

I played around with a few of them and am pretty confident in my use of one. My friends benchmade is beautiful and solid, it definately showed me why it was worth the money.

I'd buy one, but would never really have a use for it except to twirl around.

see you spring semester.

-Elmer

btw, my Beretta is still not sold/traded, help me out with that if you can.

[tellner]

I carried one for years. They're cool and all, but honestly their day has passed. The pocket-clipped thumb opening folder is just better.

[Zero_DgZ]

I guess I'm the only one!

[alucard0822]

the bali's have ceramic ball bearings in the joints, and some have titanium legs, all in all a fine knife, but somewhat impractical for self defense, a fixed blade or "assisted opening" type knife is IMO far superior, but chicks dig the knifey flippy thing.

[MatthewVanitas]

the bali's have ceramic ball bearings in the joints, and some have titanium legs, all in all a fine knife, but somewhat impractical for self defense

Only some models have ball bearings, Ti handles are a bit more common. But plenty of options out there with steel handles and bronze washers.


I emphasize again that I have plenty of last-ditch defensive knives, but am mostly interesting in the flippy aspect of balis.

I always kinda wanted to learn how to juggle, and this seems like an interesting way to go about it. Part of my interest is in the event that I reactivate and deploy again; I figure it would make a good icebreaker if I end up working with indigenous police and military units.

-MV

[Mandirigma]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with Tellner: They're cool and all, but honestly their day has passed. The pocket-clipped thumb opening folder is just better.

Its still a great tool. Only problem is they are illegal in most states. Closed use them as a a kuboton. And if you are trained correctly they can be deployed and opened faster than the thumb opening folders.

Most people get Swiss Army Knives or other simpler folders as thier first knives. I got a balisong that my grandfather made for me. Ok, made the handles for me, he just reattached an old blade to new handles and clasps.

All that said, I do carry a pocket clipped thumb opening folder. But I'm slowly shying away from all folders and going to fixed blades. Only one that hasn't folded on me yet is my benchmade auto. And that like the bali isn't something I'm allowed to carry day to day.

[tellner]

Fair enough.

Interestingly it seems that the balisong may be adapted from European knives. The first recognizable examples are French designs from the eighteenth century.

[gdvan01]

Mandirigma - nice quote in the signature. Booger hook....Hahahahah!

Anyways, my knowledge of Bali's is pretty much non-existent but I had heard many moons ago that a true "balisong" was one that had the back edge of the blade attached to the handle that had the latching-thingy on it. That is, the pic of the knife Matthew posted would not be a 'true balisong' because the latch is on the side of the cutting edge of the blade. (I hope that made sense)

I'm guessing that's a load of BS because every knife I have seen is as Matthew posted. :confused:

[Mandirigma]

Tellner, do you know of any links or sources of where they originated from european/french blades. I'd like to know more about it if you do.





just a couple of links I've found: http://www.balisong.net/


and for those that like to flip :) http://www.balisongxtreme.com/

[tellner]

I started with Wikipedia and did a Google search with the keywords "balisong" and "history". Many things came up including examples of balisong-style knives from the time produced in Europe.

[FourTeeFive]

I've had a couple of Benchmade Balisongs since the early 1980's and read one of Jeff Imada's books about using them. They're a lot of fun, and do lock up as a solid work knife (one of the most rigid locks of any sort of folder). The main thing I liked about them was that they also make a great impact weapon due to the shape and the fact that the blade is totally hidden when closed.

I used to carry them all the time. Current legislation in WA is that you cannot carry one, so I haven't carried a Balisong in years. They do have their place though, and are a lot of fun to learn how to use. And yes, I did slice my finger open once. Once.

[Bergerboy]

Yup, my aluminum-handled bali is one of two carry knives I always have on me. It is extremely handy and durable. I strongly disagree with those that say they have outlived their usefulness. Of course there's always going to be something better; but these are still great for their purpose.

[salvador31c]

I love these knives but ive only played with the cheap ones when i was a teen what are good brands to buy?

[Bergerboy]

If you aren't looking to spend a lot of money on one, but don't want a cheap fall-a-part knife (brass rivets.......ugh!), there's a company called Jaguar that makes decent ones. I carry one of theirs and it has lasted very well for about 3-4 years now. It is a copy of one of Benchmade's, and looks just like the one in the pic a bit up the page by alucard.

Great knife for the money.

[MatthewVanitas]

Just got my Spyderco Spyderfly in, and it's pretty dang cool! Much smoother and tighter than my brass-handled cheapie, and screw tension is adjustable.

Solid stainless steel, and moves on washers, so pretty indestructible.


I love these knives but ive only played with the cheap ones when i was a teen what are good brands to buy?


I'm a n00b, but from what I've gathered on BladeForums, there are a couple good options for beginners. Most folks advise against spending $20 on a cheapie, as they tend to fall apart (brass handle) or break apart (zince handles!), and have null resale value.

-- Typhoon or Tsunami kit from www.classicknifekits.com . Runs $69 for the basic model, options of wood inlay, bronze washers (highly advised), two different blade shapes and trainers coming out soon. Takes 30min to assemble, but supposed to be very good quality.

-- Spyderco Spyderfly: $75 new. Solid stainless-steel, neat knife. Rather unconventional looks. Neat modern spring-loaded latch that won't get in the way, pocket clip, etc.

-- Benchmade 4X series (42, 43, etc): can be found in the mid-$100s. Apparently the standard by which others are judged.


This is just what I've gathered from the BladeForums subforum for Balisongs. This advice seems pretty consistent across the board, whole forum practically backs these three as starter choices.

-MV

[Valkman]

Around here they're a felony to carry so that probably hurts their popularity, although I know a Home Depot worker who carries one all the time. :eek:

I have a Spyderfly and a Benchmade 42, and after the titanium handles of the BM the Spyderco feels way to heavy and clunky. I haven't gotten into them much and wouldn't buy more - in fact I should sell the Spyderfly! :)

[MatthewVanitas]

If I find myself enjoying the Spyderfly, I'll get a BM trainer to carry around. Then I'll be able to figure out the whole Ti vs. Fe issue.

Though steel might flip heavy, it should be better as a handle material for an actual working knife, yes?

BM is starting to do G10 handles for balis now too, with the BM 32 Morpho. Looks pretty cool, although some purists complain that the G10 doesn't make that solid "SNACKKK!" sound when you flip it.

Cool pics of Morpho: http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=32

Anyone curious on balisongs, just go check out all the flipping-clips on YouTube.com !

-MV

[tarrigoni]

I recently got a Benchmade 41MC and am enjoying messing around with it quite a bit.

If balis weren't legally dubious I'd carry it, but I don't want to be the test case in this state.

[MatthewVanitas]

@tarrigoni: WA is, from what I understand, a very bad state to carry balis in.

TX is only marginally better. Though not mentioned by name, bali/butterflies could, oddly enough, fall under the definition of "switchblade". Thus my interest in getting an obviously non-knife trainer to carry around and juggle.


Now that I've seen the SpyderFly, I'm really looking forward to both the trainer version of it, and especially the 3" SmallFly. Man, Spyderco makes some cool stuff! For sheer inventiveness, they are to knives what Taurus is to guns.

-MV

[Soap]

I carry a BM-42 all the time.

[Eric86GT]

I remember seeing a lot of balisongs in bad '80s Filipino movies. My first balisong was a hair comb. I learned how to flip with it. :rolleyes: My uncle has a balisong with double-edge blade. That was interesting. I didn't do much flipping with that one.

I bought a cheap real one when I turned 18, but lost it. My friend who collects knives gave me one recently. I would carry one if it were legal in MI.

[shecky]

The balisong flippy dance thing always seemed pretty cheesy and ridiculous to me, probably with the association with crappy 80s action movies. I never saw the attraction to a knife that needed so much choreography to open with one hand.

I used to have an old Hackman "CIA" knife that I think was made in Finland. It wasn't really flippable, as the pivots were too tight. I think it was more of a "folding bushcraft puuko" rather than a flashy SD knife. Interesting thing is that it might even be legal in my state, since balisongs are defined as "gravity knives" where the pivots are loose enough that the blade could fall freely out of it's closed position, a condition the Hackman does not fit. However, I'd not want to test that possibility in court.

[FourTeeFive]

I used to have an old Hackman "CIA" knife that I think was made in Finland.

I had one of those years ago that I bought in Greece when I was a kid. No idea what ever happened to it. Good work knife though!

[pwrtool45]

Just a heads up, some people have complained about the spring in the Spyderfly's latch breaking. Mine did.

[Soap]

The balisong flippy dance thing always seemed pretty cheesy and ridiculous to me, probably with the association with crappy 80s action movies. I never saw the attraction to a knife that needed so much choreography to open with one hand.

It really doesn't take much movement to open it quickly with a windmill.

[Chipperman]

I have several. They are fun to play with, but for me they are toys. IMO folders are more practical for EDC.

[JohnBT]

My father has a very well made handmade/homemade one he brought back from the Philippines at the end of WWII. The local he bought it from claimed the blade was made from a spring out of a Mercedes.

A gunsmith he knows collects them and has been trying to get it away from him for years.

I came close to losing a couple of fingers when I was a little kid.

John

[pinhead56]

Many moons ago when I was a teenager, I found and bought a "butterfly" knife in a Dayton, OH pawn shop. According to the owner it was hand-made in the Phillipines during WW II from a truck axle and whatever animal horn and pearl-like material was at hand. It's definitely nothing like a modern bench-made, but was the pride and joy of my little blade collection, still is a nice piece of work. Has a nice piece of steel that can be sharpened easily. I also know of a good book on balisongs, "The Balisong Manual" by Jeff Imada, 1984 vintage. (ISBN 0-86568-102-3). Found the book at a local gun and knife show. Covers history and use of the knife. Imada claims they originated around 800 AD in the Tang dynasty then spread all over the world due to their unique looks and design... could be, I don't know I only read his book. Anyway here's a pic of my baby...

[horge]

Originally posted by Mandirigma
Tellner, do you know of any links or sources of where they originated from european/french blades.
I'd like to know more about it if you do.

'Warrior', :)
The pied-du-roi (king's-legs) knife was popular with French sailors at a
time when Spain was practically an annex of France: both countries were
ruled by the House of Bourbon (or Borbón), and Spain, as you no doubt know,
ruled much of the Philippines, including Guam and Palau.

However, the pied-du-roi uses a single pivot in its design, and doesn't
look like it could really flip very quickly --indeed the design seems to have
been chiefly applied to small manicuring knives. The balisong (bali-sung
or broken horn) is built for quick deployment.

I'd suspect Filipinos of the late 18th century began building adaptations of
the pied du roi, but geared towards use as a PDW, rather than a utility
blade. It's certainly much easier to build than a spring-loaded switchblade.
Some of the oldest folders preserved in Barrio Balisong reliably date back only
to the late 1800's.

Hey, better late than never. :)
horge

[Mandirigma]

Salamat, Horge.

[hso]

Thanks Horge!

[clarkford]

I mess around with mine just purely for fun. It serves very little purpose in my life.

[Eleven Mike]

I had read somewhere they were patented in America but became very popular in the Philipines due to their simplicity and low production cost.

But I cannot cite the source.

[rayman]

I like the Benchmades a lot. The customs from 29 Knives, & Dobruski are cool too, but the waiting to buy one is too long. They're not too hard to make. I've made a couple of them while in high school industrial atrs classes. All you need is a couple of old files for the blade, a belt sander, a drill press, & what ever scrap metal or wood for the handles. It is a fun project. There is something cool about making your own knife. I am thinking about revisiting that little hobby. Making knives for friends was fun.
I used to be a Corrections Officer & often found shanks. (Inmate-manufactured-weapons) I was often amazed at the craftsmanship that went into some of those weapons. Some were constructed in the confines of their cells honned on the concrete floors. Some were razor-sharp! I even encountered a inmate made balisong. Go figure...

[Skofnung]

I always thought they looked cool (child of the 80's that I am) but I've never found one that felt right in my hand

pinhead56, that is a very neat looking piece you have there!

[MatthewVanitas]

Just bought a Benchmade Trainer, so I can actually take it and fiddle with it outside of my own house. Eagerly awaiting the package in the mail.

Been pondering whether one can get some neat custom pieces made by a decent knifesmith overseas next time I wander somewhere.

Oi, JShirley, do you think that any of those Khyber Pass boys could be convinced to make some decent-quality and innovative balis for some greenbacks? Take 'em a few photos of odd custom pieces, a bunch of phospor-bronze washers and torx-screws, see what they can do perhaps...

-MV

[rayman]

So Horge, let's get this straight. Balisongs are definitely a Filipino invention? I've been seeing a lot on its true origin. I was always told it was Filipino. At least that's what THEY always said...

[steeltiger]

I know its not realy related but cs has the tripple action, there not as durable due to the use of aluminum handles, but there legal most places, just as flashey, and much easier to operate. Dont start flicking it about first off though you will have to memerize the knife's timing odd as it sounds. Oh and they come EXTREMELY sharp :what:

[MatthewVanitas]

The Cold Steel Triple Action (around $70 online) is pretty cool, what they call a "Jacob's Ladder" knife.

You can do some tricks on them, which they show on the video on the CS website.

Kid at the UT Austin range has one, and likes it a lot for carry. Does tend to work itself loose though, so I'm bringing him my Torx set to tighten it up. The aluminum handles are a little cheesy too, but it's a pretty neat design overall.


http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_1934_732346

http://www.coldsteel.com/tripleactions.html

-MV

[horge]

So Horge, let's get this straight. Balisongs are definitely a Filipino invention? I've been seeing a lot on its true origin. I was always told it was Filipino. At least that's what THEY always said...

Hi :)

Most 'inventions' are really adaptations, and even 'original' works do get
replicated independently in different locales. That said, it seems that the
balisong can be considered Filipino.

I'm not interested in who started something, as much as in who's trying
to finish it (an endless labor in vain, of course). The folks in Lemery have
been trying some pretty interesting things with magnets and snaplocks in
the handle ends, in recent years.

POINT OF INTEREST:
I've said it before, but most real knife fighters in the Batangas/Laguna area may tell you,
an opponent who does the flippy-whirly draw ...is still open to discussion.
However, when someone pulls out a balisong, and instead deploys it with both hands,
taking the time to firmly engage the handle-lock without ever taking eyes off you...

It's for keeps, and probably time to haul butt.
:D

[rayman]

"Its for keeps and probably time to haul butt"...

That depends on what yer pakin in response to that doubble handed opening technique...;)

[horge]

Hehehe...
That's why I said it was them "pro" knife-fighters that tell it.

As for gun-loving unfortunates like meself...
If I can bail, I will. If not, then I'm skinning my shooting iron,
and sending out my plumb regards.

:) :) :)

[rayman]

WORD Horge

[MatthewVanitas]

Been messing around with the trainer version for a bit, since I can take it places where the sharp version might be unpopular. This critter is a ton of fun!

Just learning some basic tricks, but it's really soothing to play around with. You can only fondle a fixed-blade knife for so long without being creepy, but you can juggle a balisong for an hour *grin*


Still muddling out whether I'll get re-activated, or whether to volunteer to go to Afghanistan if I certain more boring options don't pan out. If I do, I'm thinking a balisong would be great fun for juggling when idle, conversation piece while working as an indigenous police trainer (my goal), or for dealing with those hardcore military tasks (HINT: when I look at blade profiles for military carry, my first question is: how well does it open MRE boxes?)

Again, not saying that a balisong is an immediately practical choice, but it is by far the funnest type of knife I've ever fiddled with. I have one balisong on passaround here on THR (if a certain other member stops bogarting it *grin*), might dig around for one or two other cheap-but-solid balis to let loose on the public.

-MV

[dimasalang]

Please, lets not debate about balisongs and single folders. Anyone will tell you the single folder is better for carrying and self defense. But the Balisong is way more fun to play with and IMO is just way cooler then any single folder.

http://www.fototime.com/F60E38B7EA9A842/standard.jpg

Balis I bought from Taal, Batangas. FYI guys, you can only bring back 5 Balisongs from the Philippines. LOL Airport security saw all of mine, but I got lucky.
http://www.fototime.com/64935DFCD34F5D5/standard.jpg

[rayman]

dimasalang,

I'm glad you put that out there. I've been wondering if it was ok to bring them into the U.S. Seems like you scored. I've been wanting a batangas knife. I'll be traveling there shortly. I want a custom built bali to my specs. Can you recomend any good shops?

[waytoofunky]

Baryo Balisong in Batangas has lots of roadside guys... there's a particular fellow on the right side of the road (from Manila) across a seamstress' shop (probably 1/2 mile from the church) that you can get you to customize knives. He made me a flipper from my specs from ball bearings about 2 years ago... I paid about $40... best money I ever spent!

P.S., I, too, slipped in through the inspections with about half a dozen cheapy balisongs with no questions through the SF airport. They are legal to own, just not legal to carry.

[norman74]

I like them. I have two Benchmades, one a large tanto from the "old days" and one a small titanium-handled one with a pocket clip that I bought from them at SHOT 3 or 4 years ago. I keep meaning to sell the larger one. I'll try to post pics of them later today.

ETA pic
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2298/dsc0666mediumnn2.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0666mediumnn2.jpg)

[Sniper X]

I think they look nice.

"The balisong flippy dance thing always seemed pretty cheesy and ridiculous to me, probably with the association with crappy 80s action movies. I never saw the attraction to a knife that needed so much choreography to open with one hand. "


Me too though. Saw Big Trouble in Little China again a couple nights ago and when one of the "Kung Fu" guys was in about the 8th second of his little butterfly thing I thought to myself, I could have stabbed him in every one of his vitals by the time he gets this thing open!

[dimasalang]

dimasalang,

I'm glad you put that out there. I've been wondering if it was ok to bring them into the U.S. Seems like you scored. I've been wanting a batangas knife. I'll be traveling there shortly. I want a custom built bali to my specs. Can you recomend any good shops?

Well, when you depart from Manila, the first thing they do is Xray your luggage. After throwing my box on the machine, I looked at the monitor and I saw all of the balisongs easy. I just laughed to myself. The lady and security then looked at me and asked if I had Balisongs and how many? I said yes. Then she asked, "Do you have 5? 5 is the minimum". I said yes, but I really had 15. LOL Security came and took my box over to another counter to be opened. I had so much junk in there, I put the balisongs way at the bottom of my box. After looking through the top layer, the security guy looked at me and said forget it! LOL He just smiled, closed up the box, looked at the other security guys and said "hes ok!" I just have to mention also, they were all very courteous and polite.

As for having one built to your liking, you would have to travel to a shop(actually their house) and ask them to make you one. Im sure any of them would be willing to make you one, but then you also have to consider how long it will take. Ask them for a "biente nueve" style bali, that is the original length(29mm), size, and thickness. The balisongs I purchased were $2-5 each(easy to sell in the states for $30-90 each). You can find Balisongs from Batangas at every mall now, and at some tourist spots like Tagaytay...but that will run you $10-20 each. They may cost more, but it does save you the trip and they are the pick of the litter. It was a whole day trip for me to travel to Taal. Barangay Balisong is not the only place that makes Balisongs..Lemery, Taal, and few other towns have knife houses...very easy to find, just ask around. Taal and Lemery being a 1-2 hour drive from Tagaytay ridge. And when you go there, they will have boxes and boxes of Balisongs...I couldnt believe how many just one house had, literally thousands...all different lengths, thickness, shapes, sizes, inserts, etc... Let me know when you go, or PM. I can tell you more info. :D

[Soap]

I think they look nice.

"The balisong flippy dance thing always seemed pretty cheesy and ridiculous to me, probably with the association with crappy 80s action movies. I never saw the attraction to a knife that needed so much choreography to open with one hand. "


Me too though. Saw Big Trouble in Little China again a couple nights ago and when one of the "Kung Fu" guys was in about the 8th second of his little butterfly thing I thought to myself, I could have stabbed him in every one of his vitals by the time he gets this thing open!

Umm...it doesn't take very long to windmill it open.

[pictoblu]

Here ya go:

http://www.balisongxtreme.com/

Probably the best website for butterfly knife technique.

From all accounts, the butterfly knife has origins in France, and was later taken to the Philipines.

Probably the best all around butterfly knife website belongs to Chuck Gollnick, but can't remember it at this time. Earlier in this thread someone brought up the bladeforums.com butterfly knife forum. Chuck is there and you can get to his website from there.

It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing. Yep, that's what Mr. Gollnick says and he's right on with that.

[dimasalang]

"The balisong flippy dance thing always seemed pretty cheesy and ridiculous to me, probably with the association with crappy 80s action movies. I never saw the attraction to a knife that needed so much choreography to open with one hand. "


Me too though. Saw Big Trouble in Little China again a couple nights ago and when one of the "Kung Fu" guys was in about the 8th second of his little butterfly thing I thought to myself, I could have stabbed him in every one of his vitals by the time he gets this thing open!

HAHA. In a real knife fight nobodys going to twirl 20 times to get their knives open. I can get my balisong open with one flip in a mill-second. All that fancy stuff is just for show and fun...which is why you see balisongs being flipped in movies.


From all accounts, the butterfly knife has origins in France, and was later taken to the Philipines.

Probably the best all around butterfly knife website belongs to Chuck Gollnick, but can't remember it at this time. Earlier in this thread someone brought up the bladeforums.com butterfly knife forum. Chuck is there and you can get to his website from there.

It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing. Yep, that's what Mr. Gollnick says and he's right on with that.

I believe the butterfly knife had origins in France as well, but I also believe it was the Filipinos that took the concept a step further. Who in France or Europe kept the idea of the butterfly knife going?..no one. If it werent for the Philippine Balisong, the butterfly concept would of been lost forever and extinct by now.

This is Chucks website. Some timeless pieces on his site.
http://www.balisongcollector.com/