[Mike Sr.]

Subject: The western way of life

THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT.

Denver Post:

Colorado after todays snowstorm.

WEATHER BULLETIN

Up here, in the Northern Plains, we just recovered from a Historic event--- may
I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a historic
blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH that broke trees in
half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds of motorists in lethal snow
banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of communities and cut power to 10's
of thousands.

FYI:

George Bush did not come.

FEMA did nothing.

No one howled for the government.

No one blamed the government.

No one even uttered an expletive on TV .

Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit.

Our Mayor did not blame Bush or anyone else.

Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else, either.

CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC did not visit - or report on this category 5
snowstorm. Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.

No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.

No one looted.

Nobody - I mean Nobody demanded the government do something.

Nobody expected the government to do anything, either.

No Larry King, No Bill O'Rielly, No Oprah, No Chris Mathews and No Geraldo Rivera.

No Shaun Penn, No Barbara Striesand, No Hollywood types to be found.

Nope, we just melted the snow for water.

Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars.

The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for a penny.

Local restaurants made food and the police and fire departments delivered it
to the snowbound families.

Families took in the stranded people - total strangers.

We fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Coleman lanterns.

We put on extra layers of clothes because up here it is "Work or Die".

We did not wait for some affirmative action government to get us out of a mess
created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades votes for sittin'
at home checks.

Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this early,
we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.

"In my many travels, I have noticed that once one gets north of about 48
degrees North Latitude, 90% of the world's social problems evaporate."

It does seem that way, at least to me.

I hope this gets passed on.

Maybe SOME people will get the message. The world does Not owe you a living

[1911 guy]

She E-mailed me this this morning. Good attitude.

[wooderson]

No one blamed the government.
This wasn't an emergency mandating government intervention. There were no mass evacuations, no need to turn the Nuggets' arena into a shelter.

No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.
Was anyone's house destroyed or rendered unlivable post-blizzard?

CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC did not visit - or report on this category 5
snowstorm.
This is insane.

Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.
Again - were homes and businesses permanently destroyed? Was the economic backbone of the city of Denver destroyed? Were thousands of people displaced.

Local restaurants made food and the police and fire departments delivered it to the snowbound families
So the government did intervene? The snowbound families were locked up tight in their homes?

Hmmm, I thought you said everyone was so self-reliant they turned away those damn dirty Big Gubmint folks at the door.

[heritageguy]

Hot Damn! I love it! My kind of people!

[Lucky]

Well, if the feds didn't block all the roads in or out and refuse entry to any outside aid, what are they good for? At least they did their jobs in Nola.

[Manedwolf]

This is a modification of something posted last year and debunked about a snowstorm in the midwest. They just changed it to "Colorado" in a fit of regional ego.

Yes, it was a State of Emergency.

And BTW, ranchers whined and GOT taxpayer-funded military helicopters to carry hay to their herds after the storm in Colorado just now.

Thursday was the third and final day of a National Guard airlift as seven helicopters and a C-130 transport plane ferried hay to stranded cattle. Between 70 and 80 tons of hay -- about 3,000 bales -- were dropped on the plains, the state Division of Emergency Management said.

Independent people my a$$. MY TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR HAY DELIVERIES TO PRIVATELY-OWNED HERDS because their lazy owners couldn't provide for them after a snowstorm! I'm livid about that, they should have LET THEM DIE to make the ranchers prepare better next time. Who cares? It's the rancher's profit loss, not public good! :fire:
You have just as many people sucking at the government teat as anywhere else, so don't be so proud.

This is just a modification of an already-debunked web rumor spread.

[PinnedAndRecessed]

This is a modification of something posted last year and debunked about a snowstorm in the midwest. They just changed it to "Colorado" in a fit of regional ego.


Your point is well taken and I agree with you 110%, maned. NO was hindered by the numerous generations of dead beats, many of whom now live in Houston.

Now Houston is suffering from the welfare/crack-head/dead beat mentality. Houstonians are being warned to start arming themselves.

[blacksuit]

WOW, you must be kidding. This is what the gov't should be doing with "our"(not "yours") tax dollars.... People need for that cattle to survive, not just the ranchers the whole communities depend on it. By the way below in you post it says National Guard right? Are you from that state? Didn't think so...guess it wasn't your tax dollars:mad:

And BTW, ranchers whined and GOT taxpayer-funded military helicopters to carry hay to their herds after the storm in Colorado just now.


Quote:
Thursday was the third and final day of a National Guard airlift as seven helicopters and a C-130 transport plane ferried hay to stranded cattle. Between 70 and 80 tons of hay -- about 3,000 bales -- were dropped on the plains, the state Division of Emergency Management said.

Independent people my a$$. MY TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR HAY DELIVERIES TO PRIVATELY-OWNED HERDS because their lazy owners couldn't provide for them after a snowstorm! I'm livid about that, they should have LET THEM DIE to make the ranchers prepare better next time. Who cares? It's the rancher's profit loss, not public good!
You have just as many people sucking at the government teat as anywhere else, so don't be

[Manedwolf]

People need for that cattle to survive, not just the ranchers the whole communities depend on it.

Like hell they do! People don't NEED steaks to survive! If all those herds had gone, woo, the price of hamburgers goes up 50 cents, and more comes from South America instead. The market solves.

Where did that excuse come from? Haven't you ever heard of a global economy?
Those ranchers should have planned for something like this, and make the expenditure for their own solutions. If they didn't, TOO BAD, no taxpayer dollars to bail out private for-profit enterprises!

Whatever excuse you make, it's a business owner sucking at the government teat, this time to the tune of likely millions...do you know how much it COSTS to fly a C-130?!

In this case, Colorado ranchers were just as dependent on the government as people who needed food for THEMSELVES and didn't plan ahead in NO...only in this case, it wasn't a matter of life and death, and cost the taxpayers millions to bail them out.

Yeah. That's realllll independent people, there. :rolleyes: Save our profits, mister big government, save our profits with your thousands-per-minute military hardware!

:barf:

[redneckrepairs]

Is it just me that considers manedwolf a babbleing moonbat with a weak grasp on reality ? I mean come on he is advocating a torture like death for thousands of animals due to weather conditions . How does he feel about the resourses rescueing and or feeding stranded people ? They should have prepaired better too ? Easy to be a big talker from your cozy living room somewhere not affected .

[Sindawe]

Independent people my a$$. MY TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR HAY DELIVERIES TO PRIVATELY-OWNED HERDS because their lazy owners couldn't provide for them after a snowstorm!

Manedwolf, please explain how YOU would prepare to care for herds that you have spread across hundreds and perhaps thousands of acres of open pasture? In an area where the normal winter storm will drop a couple of inches of snow that melts off in a few days.s it just me that considers manedwolf a babbleing moonbat with a weak grasp on reality ?Its just you. :neener: Manedwolf is far from a babbling moonbat.

Wait, what has this got to do with guns?

OT.

[Caimlas]

Obviously this is a fundamentally racist response designed to keep the white man down.

No, I'm serious. This response - or lack of response - is racist. The attention mongering whores of NOLA aren't around because there isn't a sizeable black community in Colorado, and therefore there is neither the culture developed to exploit the catastrophy or the will to do so: no black man benefits.

Imagine if this had happened in Chicago or Minneapolis. Not as severe as NOLA, but there would've been a substantial response from the media when Bush didn't fix the problem; always Bush's fault!

What the people in NOLA seemed to miss out on was the fact that life-challenging events like this are fun and interesting if you're even remotely prepared for your locality's weather personality. It can be a bit scary to be stuck out in a vehicle for a day or so, but if you're prepared for it, it's a challenge you can withstand and you come out the other side stronger. It's exciting to be home and prepared when catastrophy like this strikes - and no, I'm not 13 anymore; it doesn't mean a snow day for me.

[bogie]

It's old, old, old... And it does have more than a grain of truth in it.

Ain't about guns tho, except that folks in the rural areas are bound to be more self-sufficient... Which generally means that they're ready to assume responsibility for their own safety, rather than hoping that they can call 911 with 12" of fresh snow on the roads.

I wonder if any of the chopper crews tried any precision targeting with the bales...

[GunnySkox]

Manedwolf, please explain how YOU would prepare to care for herds that you have spread across hundreds and perhaps thousands of acres of open pasture? In an area where the normal winter storm will drop a couple of inches of snow that melts off in a few days.

Manedwolf doesn't need to, because Manedwolf is not a cattle rancher in a place where it is likely to snow a whole freaking lot and demanding the government feed his cattle because he didn't think ahead. Manedwolf is not demanding the government expend considerable sums of the money extracted from its citizens in order to preserve his investments.

~GnSx

[murph50]

I'm in colo. and I agree 100% with Manedwolf. Yea we got snow and a bunch of it. I myself have not been able to work since Dec 22 because of the snow and I'm not getting any gov handout nor do I want one.
Many of the ranchers I know like to think and act like they are the tough independent type then they turn around and take all kinds of gov handouts for predator control,not enough rain ,too much rain etc. That's not free enterprize--it's welfare ranching. The gov needs to stay out of business period.
If the oil companies, the airlines, agri-business etc, can't turn a profit they they should just go belly-up. As a small business owner that's what I'd be facing if I don't turn a profit.
It's funny--when the rancher turns a profit --it's called free enterprise and it's the American way--when things get tough they become socialists and want the gov to bail them out.:cuss:
BTW Senators Musgrave and Allard are also working on getting the ranchers money via low or no interst government loans.

[Mot45acp]

Being in a area that took in the Katrina fugees and got hit hard by the forgoten storm (Rita) I have no sympathy for those who fired upon helicopters dropping them food/water.

The only time I ever pointed a gun at somebody (yes I intended to use it) was when one of these poor under privilaged NO fuges was attempting to steal my gas. I would have given him some:banghead:
I got back on my feet even though I wasnt in the right demographic to get my fema cheddar.

[Larry Ashcraft]

I happen to live just west of where the worst of this took place and I personally know some of the ranchers.

There was no whining. These guys do what they can and help each other out. The National Guard stepped in and helped. Nobody was about to refuse that.

Dryland cattle ranching involves a LOT of acres. My cousin keeps 250 mama cows on 15 sections of pasture. That's about 9,000 acres. He does have snow fences for drifts, but a storm of this size strands cattle, and they need to be fed and watered to stay alive.

You really can't expect a rancher to cover literally square miles of land, rounding up cattle and moving them to shelter, every time snow is forecast.

Cattle ranching is tough enough, and the ranchers are a dying breed. I don't begrudge them a little help from the government in tough times.

[Sindawe]

I have to wonder if those who cry foul over the aid to cattle and their rancher owners are aware of the scale of the snowfall? Below you'll find a compilation of the amount of snow over both the pre and post Christmas storms. Those numbers are in inches. Remember as well, we don't have lots of trees outside the urban areas here in Colorado, and when the wind blows the snow drifts DEEP.

[wooderson]

I have no sympathy for those who fired upon helicopters dropping them food/water.
Is there any independent corroboration that this happened?

There were about a thousand stories going around about the misdeeds of the (mostly poor, mostly African-American) inhabitants of New Orleans - how many of them turned out to be true?

[wooderson]

Imagine if this had happened in Chicago or Minneapolis. Not as severe as NOLA, but there would've been a substantial response from the media when Bush didn't fix the problem; always Bush's fault!
Ah, the old hypothetical without a shred of logic or evidence. Numerous large cities have faced major blizzards in the last 20 years.

Blizzards are less-damaging (and easier to prepare for) than a hurricane or mass flood. This is not rocket science.

Easier to whine about the darkies, the lib'rul media and how everyone hates Dubya. Keeps you from having to think, I suppose.

What the people in NOLA seemed to miss out on was the fact that life-challenging events like this are fun and interesting if you're even remotely prepared for your locality's weather personality. It can be a bit scary to be stuck out in a vehicle for a day or so, but if you're prepared for it, it's a challenge you can withstand and you come out the other side stronger. It's exciting to be home and prepared when catastrophy like this strikes - and no, I'm not 13 anymore; it doesn't mean a snow day for me.
The people of NOLA had their houses and businesses destroyed by ten feet of water. Now, if you'd like to explain how one prepares for that, or sticks it out, I'd like to hear.

The New Orleans residents left behind were elderly and/or impoverished and residents of a large city. They didn't have vehicles (you don't have to have one if you live in a city - this might be a new concept for some) or the means to build a temporary life elsewhere waiting out the storm.

[Gun Plumber]

I'd love to hear how ANYONE is expected to 'prepare' for up to fifteen feet of snow? Which is what several outlying areas saw. More in drifts. It stranded cattle over THOUSANDS of acres. It CRUSHED BUILDINGS. It was so deep that front end loader operators could NOT see the top of the snow drifts from inside their cab, over ten feet off the ground.

Cattlemen DID NOT ASK FOR THE NG TO HELP. But they did not refuse it. That was put in place by our governor. It helped him declare a state of emergency so HE COULD ASK for federal assistance to reimburse all the costs associated with this storm (mayors and governors have been voted out of office here when they did NOT respond in a timely manner - so it was CYA by the governor - NOT THE CATTLE OWNERS who ARE insured for the losses). And btw, we have had THREE storms back to back to back. I've STILL got three feet of snow in my front yard here in Denver.

And all that money spent getting our city up and running again came out of MY POCKET as a citizen of Colorado. Not yours. That money to get the city up and running. To get the airport up and running, WHICH btw effected the whole country in case you live in a cave somewhere and were unaware of that. We had people from ALL OVER THE COUNTRY stranded for three days at the airport because they could NOT get out once they got there. So it was more than JUST cattle ranchers that were effected by this snow storm. Don't believe me? Go have a chat with ANYONE in the airline industry and they will set you straight.

The FEMA money WILL come out of your pocket. But this storm was the second worst in our history. Like a 100 year flood that you just can't plan for, this storm was mother nature at her most vicious.

M,
If MAINE saw that much snow, all you easterners would (and did during the really bad winter you experienced three or four years ago with ice storms and everything) whine moan and complain and DEMAND the local, state and federal government come to your rescue.

SO S2!

[bogie]

The New Orleans residents left behind were elderly and/or impoverished and residents of a large city. They didn't have vehicles (you don't have to have one if you live in a city - this might be a new concept for some) or the means to build a temporary life elsewhere waiting out the storm.

More like "stayed behind" or "got ignored by their elected politicians." Kinda hard to imagine folks trashing out a football stadium that bad (of course, it is kinda hard to imagine the herd mentality that would _order_ people to go to a football stadium in times of natural disaster too...). I guess all the images of people looting the city were also made up...

I think that the corrupt and incompetent leadership was the biggest problem. And "New Orleans" could happen in just about any large metropolitan area... Cut 'em off from services, and remove law enforcement from the equation, and you've got bad craziness. New Orleans just happened to have a largely black population, and since race is politicized in this country, it was time for a feeding frenzy. When hurricanes hit Florida a few years ago, they were just as strong, but people were better prepared, and more self-reliant - they hadn't been conditioned to call the government every time they needed something.

People in the country generally realize that 911 doesn't work for 'em. That's why you don't get too many "home invasions" in the "backwards" country, but you do in the 'burbs. The folks in the suburbs haven't figured out that they've got 10 minutes or so for the cops to show, if they're lucky... The folks in the country know that they live in a big county, and Lawdog may be chompin' a tasty treat at the other end...

[wooderson]

More like "stayed behind" or "got ignored by their elected politicians."
If I have no money and no car, I have no choice but to "stay behind," unless the state at some level actually steps in to make evacuation possible.

Undoubtedly "their elected politicians" failed them... city, state and federal.

I guess all the images of people looting the city were also made up...
Sometimes looting is a necessity - many of the 'looting shots' were of people taking what they needed from pharmacies and drug stores.

Any 'harmful' looting, by necessity, took place after the storm, during the rebuilding process. You weren't dragging a plasma TV to your house while it was being destroyed.

When hurricanes hit Florida a few years ago, they were just as strong, but people were better prepared, and more self-reliant - they hadn't been conditioned to call the government every time they needed something.
There are no cities in Miami with a comparable problem of income and possibilities for evacuation. Neither Miami nor Tampa nor Orlando (etc.) ever faced the issues with levees and flooding that NOLA had.

Hurricane damage in other instances was caused primarily by wind - water was a secondary issue. It was the opposite this time.

People in the country generally realize that 911 doesn't work for 'em. That's why you don't get too many "home invasions" in the "backwards" country, but you do in the 'burbs.
Or because there are fewer homes in the sticks, lower population-density and so on.

[Limeyfellow]

Sometimes looting is a necessity - many of the 'looting shots' were of people taking what they needed from pharmacies and drug stores.

+1

The people who were taking insulin so they didn't die of diabetes or water so they didn't die of thirst are looters too. The vast majority of the looting was for the need of survival in NO where it was impossible for them to get out of the city.

The situration in Colorado and Florida don't really compare and effected alot less people in a concentrated area over weeks in conditions that you won't see in other areas.

[Manedwolf]

If MAINE saw that much snow, all you easterners would (and did during the really bad winter you experienced three or four years ago with ice storms and everything) whine moan and complain and DEMAND the local, state and federal government come to your rescue.

The last time there was a really bad overnight storm in NH, with at least 3' of snow in the driveway in the morning and more in drifts...

...everyone at my workplace, commute or not, was there, full parking lot at 9am. From 6am on, up and down the streets, people were busily digging out their own driveways. I think if someone called the police and said there was snow blocking their house, they'd get laughed at.

You shovel, you get in your car, and you go. Homeowners' associations pay for plow companies to do their residential streets so they can. In more rural areas, a group of neighbors will generally pay one neighbor who has a truck and plow blade to do the street. I didn't see or hear any whining in the area, for certain. There were no "rescues", there were no demands for assistance. It was just SNOW, no big deal. Everyone you see has their rubber-bottomed heavy snow boots, a temporary sacrifice of all fashion to utility.

If there's one thing New England doesn't do, it's complain about snow. Snow happens, you deal. Ice storms means people drive slower. It doesn't panic and shut down like some other regions do.

[iiibdsiil]

If you ain't got a car or money, then it's going to suck when you need either. That includes a storm. Life sucks, you should have gone to college and gotten a job that pays. Just because whoever is "unfortunate" enough to not have "necessities", doesn't mean that ANYONE should be REQUIRED to give a crap, or to help them.

Welfare is destroying the process of the world. The world operated for millions of years on survival of the fittest. And you throw welfare into it, you are allowing the weak to survive. These people should let nature take it's course.

[Baba Louie]

Not too many cities anywhere that are built BELOW SEA LEVEL anymore. Kind of a dying art/science.
T'was one hell of a set of snowstorms tho' wasn't it? Not like anyone saw it (them) coming for a week prior to or anything either. No real tracking on radar that sort of thing.

Oh, to keep it on topic... I'd hate to think of what would've happened if ANYONE decided to go confiscate the firearms of those affected by the blizzard. Not a pretty picture to even think about. In fact, it's unthinkable. Just like it was in N.O.

[jrou111]

How does this relate to firearms?

[XavierBreath]

How does this relate to firearms?

Exactly. This is General Gun Discussions, not New Orleans vs Denver.

Cutting and pasting emails is a poor way to start a thread. I will not even entertain the many myths that still persist, but if you did not go to NOLA and assist after Katrina and the breaching of the levies, it is hard to explain the devastation. Of course, I've never been in a Colorado blizzard, but I think they might be different. Apples & Oranges, and a failed comparison.

Still..........This is General Gun Discussions, not New Orleans vs Denver.

If anyone disagrees about this being General Gun Discussions, PM me.