[Kaylee]

Is it just me, or have the last couple years had a really profound deep-level shift in American politics? More than just self-defense issues and post-9/11 foreign policy I mean?

For example, I've actually heard folks from Cato giving interviews on NPR and CNN at times, and PATRIOT* act or no, it seems people in general have less patience with gov't overall. Further, the Political Left seems to be floundering on a national level, and is actually trying to bring back socialized medicine as a means to get back in the game say the newsies.

I can't say I don't find that perception gratifying (:)) but... is it just a function of my moving from Occupied Territory to other regions of the country, or is it a real national phenomenon?


-K


*PATRIOT particularly.. I've heard lots of folks on the left and right lambasting it, and blaming the other side for it, or at least being very cautiously undecided... but very few people of EITHER persuasion actually supporting it..

[Malone LaVeigh]

I can't remember a time when representatives of CATO and other right-wing groups weren't heard on all of the media. What would be a sea-change is if the spectrum diverged from far-right to moderate.

[SADshooter]

I don't know about a specific ideological shift. My own feeling is that the nature of the dialogue has changed, achieving greater balance. "Conservatives" seem to have a louder voice on more media outlets, e.g. talk radio, FOX News, etc. The spectrum of public discourse has broadened accordingly. That being said, I'm sure there are many households (my parents' included) where the traditional Big Three talking heads are still the primary news source.

[WonderNine]

All you used to see on the TV were liberal politics and liberal talking heads. Now it seems that you're seeing more conservative stuff nowadays. I guess people are just tired of liberal politics.

[Russ]

The Welfare State that FDR and LBJ and the 40 years of really sorry DemocRAT control of Congress have come home to roost. Now we are paying the price and it's only going to get worse. Wait till the teen-agers of today find out they have to pay an 80 percent tax rate to keep the boomers in Social Security checks and Depends. Unless the government can fix this mess, I think we are going to see violent revolution. I think we will get to see it in California sooner than most places due to the total imcompetence of the DemocRAT spendthrifts. Why do you think Gray Davis and the Legislature are trying to disarm the populace as soon as possible?

[Battler]

I think the media is still solidly left wing. We're desensitized to thinking this normal.

But the mere PRESENCE of conservatives on TV now is a total shock.

BTW - before Sep 11, I used to deliberately listen for a 2 combinations of words. The news networks (except maybe fox), would say "Mr. Bush", and "President Clinton". For a long time I listened and would never hear "President Bush". This only changed on September 11.

[geekWithA.45]

Or at least, the abuses aren't quite as blatant as they once were. For example, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, there were a number of forces that tried to use the occassion as an opportunity to enforce conformity, but ultimately bowed to the sentiment that "Dissent IS patriotic".

I think people's attention is being turned back to the essential elements of what makes America special, the notions of individual liberty and self determination no longer play as "quaint" in the public eye.

Furthermore, I think that by questioning the goings on around them, folks are starting to see the limits and far reaching consequences of the socialist mind set.

Of course, the shift is a relative, not absolute thing, and you still have Ashcroft running around weilding scary powers the Constitution says NO ONE has, you still have the airport nazis giving us the collective goose, and the belief that relieving me of my nail clippers somehow makes us all safer, but yep, I think there is a change in the wind.

At the end of the day, we still have a mixed bag president who stands heads above anyone the Democrats can scrape up, and as frightening as Ashcroft, who wipes his butt with the BOR is, he still beats Janet Reno hands down, who actually went out and KILLED PEOPLE.

From another perspective, what we may be sniffing in the air is something that I've heard described as a "political axis flip", which is described in this blog article: (Scroll Down To Political Axis Shift) (http://aeglos.blogspot.com/2003_04_27_aeglos_archive.html#93520125)

[Waitone]

Yeah, there has been a change. Its been moving for 5 to 7 years but really accelerated since 911. Problem is the change is taking place in the peasant class and has yet to reach the ruling class.

I see a more conservative mindset anywhere social institutions depend upon the peasants. Talk radio is a grass roots growth. FOX News merely determined there is an entire segment of the population fed up with perceived distortions coming from Big Media. The internet has once and for all done away with media gatekeepers. I am one of those who no longer listens to big media broadcasts or consumes elite media print outlets. If I want to research a story I hope on the internet and can read anything from anywhere. I can always find different reportage and opinions.

I hear periodically of episodes where "liberal" types are shouted down which is then followed by the usual charges of "McCarthyism." Yep, there is more of that going on but it is no different than what leftists did during the 60's and 70's. Booing the Dixie Chicks is called repressive today, yet any number of musical icons of the 60's routinely scorned "the establishment" and took shots (literally and figuratively) at LE and the military.

So while there is a change going on in the peasant class, the ruling class cruises on without worry. Both parties are into big government yet I sense growing concern which has always been there just not expressed (e.g. TIA, Patriot's Act, Campaign Finance Control, arming pilots, etc). Unfettered outlets for those concerns now exist, something not true 10+ years ago.

I look forward to seeing more gaps develop between the ruling class and the peasant class. Right now the biggest one I perceive is that of illegal immigration. Knowledgeable peasants are astounded at what is going on yet the ruling class perceived no problem at all. . . . . .or it in the ruling classes' interest to ignore the problem. Another area of interest to peasants is that of sending companies and job overseas. It is a major problem for the peasants yet the ruling class is content to mouth the usual platitudes. Both parties are guilty of ignoring the concerns of the peasants. . . . .something this day and time ought to be considered unwise. We'll see other gaps, its just a matter of time.

We've progressed in the inversion of political ideology that we are beginning to see the inherent idiocy of unadorned and unrestrained "conservativism." Those on the so called right point fingers at the stupidity on the left, yet the new conservaives in power are in the act of committing some truly outstanding boners.

[Standing Wolf]

In the proverbial "nut shell:" America has outgrown both leftism and leftists.

[Cactus]

Originally posted by Kaylee:
Is it just me, or have the last couple years had a really profound deep-level shift in American politics?

I think that you are somewhat correct with this acessment. The Republican "revolution" of 1994 was a signifigant change in the political direction of this nation. Prior to 1994, the Democrats had controlled the House for 40 years.

Originally posted by Kaylee:
For example, I've actually heard folks from Cato giving interviews on NPR and CNN at times, and PATRIOT* act or no, it seems people in general have less patience with gov't overall.

This I have to disagree with profoundly! Americans distrust of the government really started to rise in the 1960's and peaked near the time of Nixon's resignation. The American people have a greater trust in our government at this time than they have in a long time.

Originally posted by Kaylee:
Further, the Political Left seems to be floundering on a national level, and is actually trying to bring back socialized medicine as a means to get back in the game say the newsies.

The left really is devoid of original ideas nowdays. They continually try to relive their "glory days". You see this in the anti-capitalist rhetoric or the anti-war parades. This is an attempt to bring back the '60's anti-establishment socialist revolution. The leaders of these movements are all socialist or outright communist backed.

Even the renewed calls for socialized medicine are an attempt to bring back the campaign issues of 1992. They seem to figure that if it worked for Clinton against Bush 41, it will work against President Bush today.

President Bush could very well preside over a political sea change that we have not seen since the days of FDR. Clinton actually precipitated this change and, if the economy recovers strongly, President Bush will be re-elected in a HUGE landslide and will bring many more Republicans into the House, Senate and State Governorships.

The disorganization of the Democrats and their inability to see that their current direction is a turnoff to most Americans, will only speed the change. The Democrats are no longer the party of FDR, JFK or Sen. "Scoop" Jackson. Democrats no longer stand for the working American. They are now the party Nancy Pilosi, Hillary Clinton and international appeasement. They now stand for the trial lawyers, portraying some groups of Americans as victims and government employees!