[darjo]

I just ordered a Golck 32 and have beed doing research into reloading for this particular round. I noticed that RCBS dies for this come in a 2 die set and are not Carbide. I am used to the 3 die set for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. What do those of you that reload .357 Sig use for this?

[Jayman]

I have been using the Lee dies, and am quite happy with them. I had to order the FCD separately, but I feel it is worth it. I've used the RCBS dies, didn't like them as much!

[357SIG]

I use the Lee steel dies and the Factory Crimp Die too. They work great and I don't even have to lube the cases! I think Dillon has 357 carbide dies, but they are expensive.

[Jayman]

Gah, I use lube for everything! Hornady One Shot is the bees knees!

[darjo]

Was hoping I wouldn't have to use lube. That's why I always used carbide dies for pistol reloads.

[Steve C]

Nobody makes carbide dies for bottle neck cases. I have heard that some guys run the .357 sig cases through their .40 S&W carbide dies which takes care of the bulk of the resizing and then resize the neck with the .357 sig die.

[ReloaderFred]

For 357 Sig, I've got Redding, RCBS and Dillon Carbide dies. I use them all for different things. The Dillon dies are expensive, and they don't size down on the case as far as the others, due to the belling of the die mouth to facilitate the progressive machines. Each manufacturer has something about their dies that are better in one area, or another.

As for lubing the brass, I've found that it's much easier on the brass to spray it lightly with One Shot, or Midway spray lube, or any of the other spray lubes. I just tumble the sized brass in untreated corn cob for about 20 minutes to take all the lube off.

Since you've never loaded this round before, be aware that even though everything you read says the round headspaces off the case mouth, there are actually two datum points with this cartridge. First is the case mouth, and second is the shoulder. Even if the length of the case is correct, if the shoulder isn't set back far enough, the loaded round won't chamber completely. When you set up your sizing die, be sure to try the sized case in your chamber to see if the slide will go all the way closed. This is where a lot of people have trouble with bottleneck pistol cartridges, so just make sure you set the die up correctly.

If the die won't go down on the shellholder far enough, it may be necessary to mill a few thousandths off the shellholder to allow the die to go down farther. Another way is if you have several shellholders for the same caliber, measure the distance from the inside of the shellholder, where the base of the case sets, to the top of the shellholder, where the die contacts. You'll find that almost all shellholders vary in this measurement, even from the same manufacturer, and you may have one that is "shorter" in this area.

I would recommend that you get a separate crimping die, as this round has a very short neck and the bullet needs to be securely crimped in place to avoid setback. It's a high pressure pistol cartridge, and you need to prevent things that will increase that pressure.

Another thing is the bullet itself. You can't use just any 9mm bullet for 357 Sig. Due to the short neck of the case, the bullet needs a straight bearing surface for the neck. It also needs to be either a flatpoint or hollowpoint bullet. Most roundnose bullets won't work, especially any with the NATO design, which has a long ogive. Remington Golden Sabre bullets also won't work, due to the stepped design of the bearing surface.

Once you get your gun and dies, and get things set up, there are quite a few people here who can walk you through any problems you may encounter.
This is enough information for now, but if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ATAShooter]

Dillon Does make a carbide die for it. It runs 169.00. For that kinda change, I can buy alot of lee lube and use lee dies.

[Jayman]

I don't know if you HAVE to use lube for this cartridge, I just do. I never bother tumbling off One Shot, it doesn't cause any problems.

[darjo]

Wow...a lot of information to digest here. As I don't physically have the G32 in my possession yet, I have time to read up and research. Thanks all for the help.

[Walkalong]

I have heard that some guys run the .357 sig cases through their .40 S&W carbide dies which takes care of the bulk of the resizing and then resize the neck with the .357 sig die.

Many reports of this working very well.

[ReloaderFred]

I run mine through a Magma Case Master Jr. first. This pushes the entire case through a carbide die and sizes everything, including the rim, but not the neck. The machine is set up for 10mm and .40 S&W cases, but works just fine for the 357 Sig. This eliminates any bulging of the cases and makes them very uniform from the rim to the shoulder. Here is a link for it: http://www.magmaengineering.com/item.php?id=3

This type of machine is only for those who do large volumes of reloading, and are particular about their loads. I've got it set up for rimless cases in 9mm size, 10mm size and .45 acp size. It's handy, but not for the casual reloader.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[357SIG]

I started running my 357 SIG brass through the .40 sizing die. One day, I ran some tumbled 357 brass through my 357 SIG Lee resizing die by accident (about 30-40 cases) and was amazed how easy they went in and out without lube. Been doing it ever since, but I do religiously clean my sizing die.

[Peter M. Eick]

I load with the Dillon Carbide 357 Sig die and like it a lot. I experimented a bunch with the Sig and reloading so I have a bunch of set of dies. I have a lee, rcbs, dillon and I think a hornady set somewhere. I know that right now I am using the dillon carbide for sizing, lee for belling, rcbs for seating and the lee FCD for crimping. I use a lyman check gauge at the end.

I am not sure why I have the hornady die set. I probably bought it at some point for the fun of it and did not like it at all.

Remember AA9 is your friend with the SIG!

[darjo]

Being new to reloading and definitely brand spanking new to that of the .357 Sig, I have a dumb question......what is AA9?

[ReloaderFred]

Not a dumb question at all. It's Accurate Arms #9 pistol powder. It's a relatively slow pistol powder, but excels in the 357 Sig round. It completely fills the case and eliminates the bullet setback problem inherent in short necked, bottleneck pistol cartridges. It has also proven to be one of the most accurate powders for this caliber.

I use it almost exclusively in 357 Sig.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[djml66]

I know this is a very old thread, but a subject dear to my heart.

On the subject of shoulder position, my Lee and RCBS sizing dies place the shoulder such that the round headspaces nearly .020" further out than do factory rounds from Speer and Federal. I tried both Lee and RCBS shell holders and there's little to no difference. So I have a Lee #19 shell holder that I milled about 17 thousands off and use also for 40. It not only puts the shoulder where those factory rounds are, it also takes a little more of the "Glock Bulge" out. I also feel a little more comfortable with .017" more bearing surface ahead of the shoulder.

[Clark]

I think there is some question about head spacing off the shoulder vs the mouth. Buried in the realguns archive is an article that Joe wrote about this.

I have not shot any of my 357Sigs in 10 years, and I have been loosing brain cells ever since.

[djml66]

Hi Clark,

I've read some reports like that. I don't think I saw Joe's, though. I'm new to the forum.

My analysis was far from conclusive. I just determined for sure that the resized cases I was getting from Lee and/or RCBS dies had the shoulder too far forward for the case mouth to determine headspace. I found that, for a fixed case length, moving the shoulder rearward (by grinding the shell holder), moved the headspace forward. I quit when it matched the factory rounds I had to compare it with (premium Federal and Speer).

[Elkins45]

I know this is a very old thread, but a subject dear to my heart.

On the subject of shoulder position, my Lee and RCBS sizing dies place the shoulder such that the round headspaces nearly .020" further out than do factory rounds from Speer and Federal. I tried both Lee and RCBS shell holders and there's little to no difference. So I have a Lee #19 shell holder that I milled about 17 thousands off and use also for 40. It not only puts the shoulder where those factory rounds are, it also takes a little more of the "Glock Bulge" out. I also feel a little more comfortable with .017" more bearing surface ahead of the shoulder.
I have noticed the same thing. In an effort to give my case necks more bearing surface I shortened the bottom of my RCBS sizing die to push the shoulder back a bit.

I'm not entirely certain it helped, but it doesn't seem to have hurt.

Sorry, just noticed that I dragged up an old thread--I found it thru Google.

[cmgred]

I bought the Dillon carbide dies and Dillon says they must be lubed. No big deal just some one shot, but if money's a consideration, go with you're favorite steel die.

[djml66]

The only down side to what we're doing is we are work-hardening the metal in the shoulder. Although I haven't shot enough 357sig to notice a problem, someone concerned about number of reloads per case would need to minimize the shoulder to the very minimum that his specific pistol needs. I have found a large variation in this parameter. E.g., the minimum that works great in a Sig 229 jams a Glock 31 <It won't go into battery, at all>. I don't know if this is a manufacturer specific variation or just a gun to gun variation, but it is something that we need to be aware of.

BTW, I found the same problem on my Lee 400 Corbon sizing die, but even worse: the HS is too far back by 0.020" from the back of the LWD barrel for the Glock 20. It goes into battery for an unknown mfr bbl for 1911's. So big difference. I'd prefer to shoot the Glock since it cause a whole lot less bullet setback issues and resulting over-pressure problems. I've put the 400 Corbon aside for now -- too many issues. I have lots of other projects I can work on!

dave

[djml66]

Cmgred:

I use a RCBS 40s&w carbide sizer ahead of the steel 357sig die to avoid the lube issue. It works great. Never had a problem

dave

[cmgred]

Cmgred:

I use a RCBS 40s&w carbide sizer ahead of the steel 357sig die to avoid the lube issue. It works great. Never had a problem

dave
I can see why that works. Very creative.

I just wouldn't want anybody to spend the money on the Dillon dies, to avoid lubing, when Dillon says you need to.

[Clark]

Here is the real guns article on 357 Sig headspace:
http://www.realguns.com/archives/001.htm

[Walkalong]

BTW, I found the same problem on my Lee 400 Corbon sizing die, but even worse: the HS is too far back by 0.020" from the back of the LWD barrel for the Glock 20. It goes into battery for an unknown mfr bbl for 1911's. So big difference. I'd prefer to shoot the Glock since it cause a whole lot less bullet setback issues and resulting over-pressure problems. I've put the 400 Corbon aside for now -- too many issues. I have lots of other projects I can work on!

Sounds like a big difference in those two .400 Corbon chambers. I only have one .400 Corbon barrel. It is a Firedragon barrel for a 1911. I have been able to use my standard shell holder on my Partner press, and now the standard shell plate on my LNL to load for it. As you alluded to, I just use the barrel to set up the sizer. .357 Sig would be done the same way.

Like this (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=482519)

[igoodnessi]

I just started reloading and I'm wondering if .357 might not have been the best starter round. I enjoy the time I take to meticulously inspect, clean, deprime, clean, size, prime and charge the rounds but... I can't seem to get seating/crimping down. Every single round I press either buckles at the shoulder or is loose and allows bullet setback. I have pressed a few nice rounds but, I cannot get my Lee dies to give me GOOD, consistent rounds. I'm debating getting rid of them and just switching to RCBS or another brand. Thoughts?

[Walkalong]

Loose neck tension is usually from to large a sizer, too large an expander, or a bit of both. It is possible to ruin neck tension over crimping as well.

Buckling the shoulder is generally from having the crimp run down to much. I am using RCBS dies and seating/crimping with a light roll crimp (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5995845&postcount=41) in one step.

Welcome to THR

[benzuncle]

igoodnessi, welcome to the forum. Look around and you will find a good deal of info on this site conerning 357Sig. I use Lee dies and have no problem with them. I had several thousandths milled off the top of the shell holder to allow the ram to move just a tad more. (This was advice found here from another regular contributor and 357Sig reloader.) I use a Lee 40S&W carbide die for sizing and the other Lee dies are 357Sig. Because I use AA#9 for powder I had to purchase a RCBS Uniflow to charge the casings. For me, it's all good. I love the round and enjoy reloading it. Your guess is correct: loading straight-wall cartridges would be a better place to begin. 45ACP comes to mind. But 357Sig is definitely reloadable. Best of luck to you.

[djml66]

igoodness, benzuncle has said pretty what i was going to say. I also started 357sig without anybody's direction, and I concur that 45acp is a Much Better round to start on--for lots of reasons. The 357sig is a high pressure round and can be unforgiving. I HIGHLY recommend AA#9 as the only powder to use (with 357sig), especially when you are still learing. The reason is that it pretty well fills the case and allows only a very small amount of setback. I have both lee and rcbs dies and there's little difference between that I can tell. The Shell holder needs to have .008 to .011" taken off to allow the result to have the proper HS. Everything you read will tell you that the shoulder does not determine HS. That is not quite correct, if the should is far enough forward. Both the Lee and RCBS sizers that I have result in that condition. That's why I ground off the top of my shell holder. (BTW, I have another Lee #19 shell holder that's ground off by a lot more, along with a 40sw sizer die that has as much ground off the bottom as I dared! This was to eliminate the Glock Bulge near the head of 40's, and also to some extent, 357sigs--I use the 40 sizer as the first step for the 357. If you don't do this you have to lube every round. I don't like to do that). If you don't push the shoulder back where it belongs you actually lose some neck length. This was about .011" in my case. I don't know if it is significant or not, but it makes me feel better to have that little bit more neck to grasp the bullet.

There is one other biggy on 357sig--that is the bullet. I have only found 3 that work well for me. Those are the Speer "357sig 125 JHP" and its TMJ counterpart. The next is the Berry 124gr hollowpoint. It is plated and not really rated for the speed, but I've not yet had a problem with it at velocity up to 1450 or so. The third is the XTP 124. (Actually there is a fourth--Montana Gold has a clone of the XTP which is a lot cheaper). Most of the other 9mm bullets I have used don't have enough cylindrical ogive--and the part that is in the neck is starting to become undersized. They are a disaster. (Although I tried some with max charge of AA#9 and got away with it due to high compression of the powder!).

The part about crumpling the cases sounds like you are not flaring (or bell-ing) the round. You will need to use a 9mm flaring die for this. You will need a die set for 9mm someday anyway, so go ahead and get that one. And when you order it, get a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 357. That will correct mild "crushing" and otherwise make thiings chamberable that wouldn't otherwise.

357sig is a lot of fun. You can see in one of my posts that the .400 corbon has similar issues but IN SPADES.

Best of luck,

Dave

[hydraulicman]

after the research i have done

get the lee dies and some spray lube

use truncated cone bullets or hollow points. no nato style bullets.

and have fun.

oh don't flair the case mouth too much. you'll need it for neck tension

[djml66]

igoodness: You are getting some good hints. One exception to the "don't overcrimp" rule is if you have the Lee Factory Crimp Die. You can't overcrimp with it enough to crumple the case. You can crimp enough to affect accuracy, I have read, but it hasn't been noticeable on my shooting. When I was still using Unique, I crimped the crap out of them and had not setback issues and had very nice tight velocity distribution. But DON'T overcrimp with the sizer die. That ain't good.

And oh yeah. Just because it's a hollowpoint doesn't mean it will work. Examples of "no good" for 357sig is Rem std HP, Rem GS, Speer 124 Gold Dot, Zero 124JHP..... As I mentioned earlier, you can get away with these and others with AA#9. But you can't crimp them enough to prevent setback if you're using a powder that doesn't fill the case.

[igoodnessi]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I find what appears to be some really informed and well-intended feedback in these forums. I've heard it said that back when everyone went armed that people were much more polite civilized...

So I have several things to address, one, the machining of the shellholders. Two, I'm using Blue Dot, because I found it before AA#9, which has been overwhelmingly the most highly recommended of the powders. Three, I'm using 115 gr. remington HP's and 124 gr Speer Gold Dots, which I read negative feedbacks on in one of the last posts. I'll address these issues so I can reap the rewards of reloading this cartridge. I've read it's the most consistent, in terms of velocity and grouping and effective in terms of stopping power, of the commonly available semi-auto rounds.

[djml66]

igoodnessi: good luck! 357sig is a fun round.

Just to clarify a point---the 124 GD is for 9m, and the 125 GD is designed for 357sig, with a longer cylindrical ogive. Check the constant diameter portion of the 124GD with your calipers (you DO have calipers, right?) and set the COAL to keep max diameter at the neck, if possible. If the diameter of the bullet at the neck is much below .355, you could have a problem. This may require you to use the max COAL of 1.140" or even longer. Your charts may specify something smaller, but I like to err on the long side, even longer than the spec if there's a setback possibility otherwise. I would just make a half dozen, load them in the mag and manually cycle them. If they work in the mag, cycle OK and the COAL hasn't been reduced more than a couple of thousands or so after cycling, you're good to go. Sometimes the longer COAL won't make it out the ejection port, but that's no problem. It'll do fine when it's fired (no bullet in it).

best regards, have fun and be safe