Pistol caliber carbines for self defense?


PDA






rd99
January 8, 2007, 10:47 PM
I'm a fan of pistol caliber carbines--mainly for plinkng and target shooting.

But I've been reading a lot of stuff on the internet arguing that pistol caliber carbines are good for home defense because:
- they are very accurate out to 50 yards
- don't have the over-penetration problems of rifles calibers and shotguns
- carbines usually provide more performance than a pistol of the same caliber
- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
- a sling frees the users hands - a pistol is either in your hand or in a holster
- carbines can be easier to shoot well than a pistol especially for people who don't practice a lot.

Does this make sense?

If you enjoyed reading about "Pistol caliber carbines for self defense?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
DoubleTapDrew
January 8, 2007, 10:56 PM
Maybe but:
- they are very accurate out to 50 yards
50 yard or more and you'll have a hard time arguing to the prosecuting attourney it was self defense
- usually provide more performance than a pistol of the same caliber
Pistol caliber rounds are optimized for pistol length barrels. They may offer a few more fps but it shouldn't affect performance
- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
That's very important if you are a mall ninja
- a sling frees the users hands - a pistol is either in your hand or in a holster
True, but you shouldn't take your hands off your weapon in a serious situation
- carbines can be easier to shoot well than a pistol especially for people who don't practice a lot.
That's true but there's also the argument that it makes it easier for the BG to take the gun away from you (if you get that close, which hopefully you won't) especially if you don't have the upper body strength to retain it. you also can't really fire from retention.

Not trying to be argumentitive, just my thoughts.

miko
January 8, 2007, 10:59 PM
Yes. A Marlin 1894 Lever in .357 Mag/38Sp is a great carbine - gives you more energy at 100 yards than from a revolver at the muzzle. Such is the potential of this great cartrige.

miko

jagdpanzer347
January 8, 2007, 11:03 PM
RD99, welcome to THR. I personally prefer handguns and shotguns for home defense. HOWEVER, if you have a reliable pistol caliber carbine that you are comfortable with, I feel you are well armed. Go with what works for you.

-jagd

browningguy
January 8, 2007, 11:36 PM
Actually if you do a quick search we have had several long drawn out debates on this in the past couple of months. Bottom line, they work well, but some people don't like them.

rd99
January 9, 2007, 12:18 AM
- they are very accurate out to 50 yards
50 yard or more and you'll have a hard time arguing to the prosecuting attourney it was self defense
Operative words "out to" - a lot less to argue about if you shoot a BG in your house

- usually provide more performance than a pistol of the same caliber
Pistol caliber rounds are optimized for pistol length barrels. They may offer a few more fps but it shouldn't affect performance
I'll take a few more fps whenever I can get them

- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
That's very important if you are a mall ninja
Interesting statement--Maybe you should inform special ops teams, SWAT teams, and military and other special operators (who all seem to use lights and/or lasers these days) that they are "mall ninjas".
Plus, a "prosecuting attourney" would love to hear you say that you shot someone without being able to see who it was.

- a sling frees the users hands - a pistol is either in your hand or in a holster
True, but you shouldn't take your hands off your weapon in a serious situation
Except maybe to use a cell phone--Like when the cops are coming in the door and you'd like them to know where you are, where your family is, and where the BG is

- carbines can be easier to shoot well than a pistol especially for people who don't practice a lot.
That's true but there's also the argument that it makes it easier for the BG to take the gun away from you (if you get that close, which hopefully you won't) especially if you don't have the upper body strength to retain it. you also can't really fire from retention.
If a carbine is "easier to shoot" doesn't it logically follow that it would be easier to put a bullet into whoever is trying to "take the gun away from you"

Limeyfellow
January 9, 2007, 12:35 AM
That was one of the main reasons the US military adopted the M1 Carbine. So many troops couldn't qualify with the pistol and it was far easier to handle, aim and use effectively. It gives you a better sight distance too over a pistol and so more accurate to hit the target.

Pistol calibre carbines are generally short and handy little buggers that do the job they are designed for and pretty much a rival of the much more expensive submachine guns.

Rugerdaddy
January 9, 2007, 12:45 AM
I really like Ruger's carbines- the 9mm and the SW .40. I'm thinking of buying a 9MM. However, I think I will still grab my pistol (P90) first if needed for self defense. :)

RockyMtnTactical
January 9, 2007, 12:57 AM
An AR or any other carbine in a rifle caliber (hell, even a .30 carbine) is much better than an pistol caliber carbine. If you're serious about self defense, get a defensive carbine in .223 or something.

There's a good reason why LE agencies like the FBI are dumping the MP5's and stuff for AR-15's.

Srigs
January 9, 2007, 01:10 AM
My wife does not like to shoot handguns but love the 9mm carbine and is a dam good shot with it. This is a very good reason. It is her go to gun.

My 40 carbine I like and I'm a dam good shot with it. Is it my must have gun by the bed? No my 40 handgun with the light is.

If it works for you use one and if not don't. :cool:

dfaugh
January 9, 2007, 09:50 AM
I agree that it MAY not be the ideal gun for HD BUT, I can easily argue FOR one as well.

I have a large house, and we have 4 HD guns (2 upstairs/2 down, and front and back.) One of the more accessible (front hall closet) is a Hi-Point 9mm Carbine.

Reasons being:

- I don't like to keep a "fully loaded" gun around---Can slap a mag in and be ready to go in a split second.

- Both my kids have shot it extensively, and are very comfortable (and accurate) with it.

- We live in a semi-rural area, and sometimes have to go check out things that go bump in the night, outside, where some extra range might be important (usually talking wild animals, not humans). We send a dog out first to investigate. But if it were a BG, we have better range(and accuracy), if need be. (But ONLY if we HAVE to shoot).

-It can handle +P+ rounds (I keep the mag loaded with +P+ Black Talons, which offer a SIGNIFICANT velocity increase over a short barreled handgun---like 400+ fps.

-No lights or fancy stuff, though, that just makes you a good target.

Personally I'd prefer to get to the shotgun, but with the carbine, I wouldn't feel "undergunned".

P.S. I don't get the whole thing about the BG disarming you, if you have a long gun...Can't envision a REALISTIC scenario where you'd ever be that close(unless you're really dumb---no offence). And, for that matter, my little carbine isn't much bigger than alot of handguns.

Ranger J
January 9, 2007, 10:42 AM
I love my 1894s in .357 and .44 and my .44 Ruger Deerfield but it is a 12G Mossberg pump loaded with birdshot and slugs that sets next to my bed. I would not feel undergunned, especially with the Deerfield, but as I have a choice…:)
RJ

Z_Infidel
January 9, 2007, 11:29 AM
A .30-30 carbine loaded with 125 gr JHPs wouldn't be a terrible choice, either. I think Federal makes that load, but I'm not sure.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 9, 2007, 11:38 AM
If the question is "Can a pistol caliber carbine be an effective self defense weapon?" then I would have to answer yes. If the question is "Is a pistol caliber carbine the best self defense weapon for most people?" I might be a little more qualified in my response.

Speer
January 9, 2007, 11:49 AM
I'd recommend a carbine, sure. In fact, having a carbine and pistol share the ammo has its advantages.

Hawk
January 9, 2007, 11:55 AM
My pistol caliber carbine is a Henry Big Boy in .45 long Colt.

No lights or lasers. Admittedly, I do find the sight picture on those buckhorns a tad confusing.

blackhawk2000
January 9, 2007, 12:02 PM
- they are very accurate out to 50 yards
50 yard or more and you'll have a hard time arguing to the prosecuting attourney it was self defense

I'd rather take a head shot on a BG with a hostage with a long gun.

- usually provide more performance than a pistol of the same caliber
Pistol caliber rounds are optimized for pistol length barrels. They may offer a few more fps but it shouldn't affect performance

More FPS is always good.

- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
That's very important if you are a mall ninja

Every defensive gun should have a flash light on it. Lasers work pretty well in the dark too.

- a sling frees the users hands - a pistol is either in your hand or in a holster
True, but you shouldn't take your hands off your weapon in a serious situation

Sometimes you have to take your hand/s off the gun.

- carbines can be easier to shoot well than a pistol especially for people who don't practice a lot.
That's true but there's also the argument that it makes it easier for the BG to take the gun away from you (if you get that close, which hopefully you won't) especially if you don't have the upper body strength to retain it. you also can't really fire from retention.

The long gun is easier to retain in a gun grab situation.

Levercaster
January 9, 2007, 02:12 PM
Hi, RD99!

I have a Marllin 1894C in 38/357. It's "most accurate" factory round is Remington UMC, 38 Special 125 gr SJHP +P ammo. It will put three shots into .66" @ 25 yards. At that range, it penetrates 10 inches of newspaper, doubles in diameter, mushrooms perfectly down to the crimp groove and the lead core does not separate. It is my home defense round and adequate for taking on BGs. I "guesstemate" that the muzzle velocity is ~1500 FPS from the carbine. The 38 special is quieter from the carbine than from a revolver. There is no muzzle flash. A 44 mag may over penetrate. It is economical to shoot and that allows me to shoot it a lot, gaining familiarity and confidence. Even a small person would find it quite manageable. I give it a thumbs up but, I admit to being biased because I own it. =)

Best regards,

Levercaster

TexasRifleman
January 9, 2007, 02:47 PM
- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol

That's very important if you are a mall ninja

No it's very important if you are using a firearm to defend your home.

A light is pretty much required and it is certainly easier to mount on a rifle than a handgun.

If you think that a light is the tool of mall ninjas you have much to learn.

He said lights and lasers, not optics and night vision.

Both are absolutely solid tools for a self defense weapon.

Kurac
January 9, 2007, 03:16 PM
So, I can only speak for myself here but I would much rather have say an M1 Carbine with a 30 Magazine, MP5 or a Thompson with a 30 round sick or 50 round drum than any handgun I can think of. If someone is attacking you, then need to be driven off with overwhelming firepower to ensure that you are the victor. If you have barely enough to get the job done, it may infact end up not being enough.

Like I always say, if you are going to do it, do it right so you don't have to do it again.

Zero_DgZ
January 9, 2007, 03:17 PM
50 yard or more and you'll have a hard time arguing to the prosecuting attourney it was self defense

Not if the target was already shooting at you.

The purpose of a pistol caliber carbine is to have a companion to your sidearm that's compact but can reach out longer than your pistol can without having to pack different mags and ammo.

P. Plainsman
January 9, 2007, 03:20 PM
Pistol caliber rounds are optimized for pistol length barrels. They may offer a few more fps but it shouldn't affect performance
True if we're using "pistol" in the narrow sense -- i.e., self-loader cartridges. Typical 9mm and .40 S&W get a bit of a boost from a carbine length barrel. .45 ACP, not much.

But magnum revolver cartridges, with their bulky charges of slow powder, really go to town in carbines. 500 to 600 fps increases are quite common.

Choose something like Buffalo Bore .357 Magnum and you can get a 180 gr slug moving @ 1850 fps from a handy little Marlin 1894C. It's accurate, and recoil is modest. Now you're in true "in between" ballistic territory -- not a match for a rifle round, but more oomph than any defensive handgun (or any semi-auto pistol caliber carbine).

That said, I'm told you can handload 9mm+P with slow powders like Blue Dot to get an improved ballistic jump from 9mm carbines.

What somebody should really make is a light sturdy carbine in .357 SIG that takes 15-round Glock magazines. I'd buy one. It'd be like a semi-auto Marlin 1894C, or a 21st-century M1 Carbine.

rustymaggot
January 9, 2007, 03:27 PM
if your carrying all the weight and size around, might as well go up to a rifle cartridge.

i like my m1 carbine. its a happy medium. good pistol cartridge in a small rifle. and the terminal ballistics are pretty good with softpoints.

El Tejon
January 9, 2007, 03:28 PM
rd, makes a great deal of sense. If you want you, then go ahead, but never forget that in self-defense, exact weapon matters little, you matter a lot.

Focus should always be on software, not hardware.:)

B.D. Turner
January 9, 2007, 04:17 PM
My pistol is a five shot .38 my rifle is an 11 shot Marlin .44 magnum. If someone is here to harm my family I would rather have the carbine anytime.

Hawk
January 9, 2007, 05:21 PM
There's a lot more lever action pistol caliber carbines being brought up than I would have guessed.

Interesting.

Sniper X
January 9, 2007, 05:31 PM
Depends on if you live in the city, or country. I'd personally stay with a pistol in a pistol cartridge for self/home defense for many many reasons, and a carbine for if the fight is or goes outside on my 10 acres of land. But not many city dwellers live on ten acres! A pistol is by far a better CQB rig than anything else, even a shotgun. In the confines of a dwelling, there is no way unless you train train train, you will be able to use a carbine or shotgun as quickly or accurately as most intruder situations happen from 0~7feet away. Get a snuby .357 or some 9mm or .380 pistol, shoot the hell out of it to get good with it then take the lever gun out pig hunting!

student
January 9, 2007, 09:45 PM
I find them to have less muzzle flash and noise (both important for home defense) and can be fired more accurately and rapidly than a handgun with identical ammo. To me their trade off is reduced concealability, range and potentially penetration (depending on what you are comparing it to as some .223 may penetrate less). But for home defense, none of those are really positive aspects of a weapon. If I leave the home with a longarm then a real rifle caliber is better than a pistol caliber if I am carrying a rifle sized hunk of steel/wood/plastic, and a real handgun can accompany it for concealable backup.

borrowedtime69
January 10, 2007, 12:54 AM
i would think that the Ruger Deerfield semi-auto Carbine in .44 mag would be a great defense weapon.

DoubleTapDrew
January 10, 2007, 01:08 AM
I feel the need to justify my responses so here goes:

For the record, I think if you are going with a long gun a rifle caliber cartridge is a better option. I'm not sure how to keep the colors and formatting so I'll just use red for my responses here.

- they are very accurate out to 50 yards
50 yard or more and you'll have a hard time arguing to the prosecuting attourney it was self defense

I'd rather take a head shot on a BG with a hostage with a long gun.
As would I. I haven't yet encountered a 50 yard living room but I'd rather use a .223 at that range. My point was at those ranges, on most properties, the guy is well off your land (in a suburban setting). If I was shot at, I'd return fire also.

- usually provide more performance than a pistol of the same caliber
Pistol caliber rounds are optimized for pistol length barrels. They may offer a few more fps but it shouldn't affect performance

More FPS is always good.
I can't argue with more fps but if the tradeoff is going from a small pistol to a long gun that requires both hands I'd reconsider caliber

- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
That's very important if you are a mall ninja

Every defensive gun should have a flash light on it. Lasers work pretty well in the dark too.
I guess the "hang lights and lasers off them" part got me. Sounds mall ninja. A light is a necessity on a long gun since your hands are occupied although the idea of giving something to shoot at before you find the BG is up for debate.

- a sling frees the users hands - a pistol is either in your hand or in a holster
True, but you shouldn't take your hands off your weapon in a serious situation

Sometimes you have to take your hand/s off the gun.
What I'm referring to here is something like opening a doorknob. Swinging a long gun with one hand isn't easy, even if it's on a sling. Calling 911 if you got the guy to surrender would be easier with a sling (imagine trying to do that without one) but you should still keep your firing hand and the muzzle on the BG.

- carbines can be easier to shoot well than a pistol especially for people who don't practice a lot.
That's true but there's also the argument that it makes it easier for the BG to take the gun away from you (if you get that close, which hopefully you won't) especially if you don't have the upper body strength to retain it. you also can't really fire from retention.

The long gun is easier to retain in a gun grab situation.
You have more leverage. So does the bad guy. That's fine if you are a full sized male. A 100lb woman might find it taken away from her rather quickly. A handgun you can tuck in close to your body and fire instead of trying to get the muzzle pointed back at the BG while his hands are on the barrel.

doubleg
January 10, 2007, 01:10 AM
- you can hang lights and lasers off them more easily than a pistol
That's very important if you are a mall ninja


:D :D :D :D

ForeverArmed
January 10, 2007, 01:26 AM
For my $0.02, I think a pistol-caliber carbine is definitely preferable to a handgun. Although stopping power isn't that much better from the carbine, being able to shoot rapidly and accurately is much easier with a long gun than with a pistol, especially when you're under extreme stress and your fine motor skills go to hell. That alone makes the PCC much better than a handgun. Long guns are a bit more awkward to maneuver with in close quarters, but as long as you're careful (e.g., don't walk around corners leading with the barrel such that someone can grab it), that problem can be minimized.

For better stopping power, you'll have to go with a rifle or a shotgun. I personally would prefer one of these because of the greater lethality -- not that I'd enjoy killing someone, but because if my life is on the line, I want the most effective weapon possible. A shotgun with 00 Buck is probably the most effective short-range weapon you can wield inside a house if you're shooting against someone who isn't wearing body armor. It's the easiest type of shoulder-fired arm to hit with, and it has enormous stopping power.

If you're worried about someone with body armor breaking into your home (e.g., gun confiscators like we saw in New Orleans after Katrina), then you NEED to have a rifle. 5.56 NATO (i.e., steel core) is still widely available and should be stocked up on, IMO. 7.62x39 will also do, but steel core is getting harder to find and is often corrosive. A .308 is probably a bit much for indoor defense.

The big disadvantage to rifles being used indoors is that you won't be able to hear anything but ringing after shooting them once or twice -- unless you have a pair of electronic earmuffs. The PCCs might not be so bad, but I've never fired one indoors.

Regardless of what long arm you choose, I agree with others who say you should definitely have a good light on it. The light helps with seeing and identifying targets, and it will tend to blind your attacker(s).

SniperStraz
January 10, 2007, 01:33 AM
...but if the UZI and MP-5 are good enough for SWAT, Special Forces, and US Secret Service, Its good enough for SD. On the other hand, there is no reason to limit yourself. If, however you like them and feel more comfortable with them, I'd like suggest the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine. Its cheap but accurate. (at least thats what I hear) G'Luck

LoadedDrum
January 10, 2007, 06:46 AM
I would not mind using a pistol caliber carbine for self defense as I shoot better with any rifle than I do with any pistol. However, a shotgun will always be my first choice.

qajaq59
January 10, 2007, 07:21 AM
Robber suddenly wakes me up. The room is half lit. I'm half asleep. My stress level is up in the stratosphere. What would you bet that I'm a better shot with a double barrel 12 gauge loaded with buck shot?

Levercaster
January 10, 2007, 09:40 AM
Another point for consideration is that pistol caliber carbines are pretty short. In the neighborhood of 33 to 36 inches overall in length.

Everyone has raised great points. The most common factors to consider seem to be muzzle flash, over penetration, accuracy and stopping power. The "gunfight" should be over in two rounds max. ;)

Levercaster

perpster
January 10, 2007, 10:01 AM
If we leave out shotguns from the discussion (and get back to the post starter's initial question "do pistol caliber carbines make sense for home defense"), IMHO the answer is yes, depending on the circumstances. For example, in an urban/suburban environment overpenetration of walls is a real concern.

One thing that I like about the notion is KISS: have a handgun and carbine that use the same ammo. Grab them both and spare rounds if at all possible. If either weapon needs to be reloaded you have the options of using the other weapon OR reloading from spares without having to look or guess if you're getting the correct ammo OR canibalize rounds from the other weapon if it's not needed in your tactical judgment. Plus, it simplifies ammo buying, storage and inventorying. Usually costs less to buy pistol ammo, too.

To paraphrase an earlier poster, is it the BEST home defense solution? Probably not. Is it a VIABLE home defense solution? Definately. I agree that in many circumstances a shotgun is a better choice, but that doesn't mean a pistol caliber carbine can't be.

greyeyezz
January 10, 2007, 10:21 AM
I'd love to see a 357 Sig carbine from someone..........anyone.

rustymaggot
January 10, 2007, 01:38 PM
isnt the .30 carbine cartridge just about the same thing as a .357 sig? i mean, they do the same job dont they?

P. Plainsman
January 10, 2007, 04:40 PM
isnt the .30 carbine cartridge just about the same thing as a .357 sig? i mean, they do the same job dont they?

You can use heavier bullets in the .357 SIG (110 gr vs. 147 gr -- notable difference), the .357 SIG makes a wider hole, and there are a lot more, and better, defensive bullet designs available in .355 caliber than there are for the .30 Carbine.

Cosmoline
January 10, 2007, 04:48 PM
This has been the subject of other extensive threads. The bottom line is, the nay-sayers who think you should only use a short gun are badly misinformed. A carbine will give you:

--Better accuracy
--Better stopping power
--More control over bullet expansion and hence less overpentration risks
--Better weapon retention
--Better light mounting and sighting options
etc

What you give up is CCW, and that's about it. So by all means get a carbine to match your CCW firearm and use it as a home defense or truck gun.

Hawk
January 10, 2007, 07:17 PM
--Better light mounting and sighting options

This should probably be qualified as to selected pistol caliber carbines.

The surprisingly high number of people listing Cowboy Assault Weapons likely don't enjoy a lot of light and laser options - I know my Henry wouldn't take to the things gracefully.

In fact, it would appear the relatively new CX Storm is in a distinct minority. Throw in Hi-Points and the occasional Ruger and the "light and laser" crowd might still be a minority.

Cosmoline
January 10, 2007, 07:28 PM
Actually, Wild West makes mounts for levergun lights and several outfits make scout scope mounts. Barring that electrical tape works fine. Recoil is minimal out of these carbines. Up here, it's not even unusual to see tactical lights taped onto 1895's--at least when they're for DLP not hunting.

M110
January 10, 2007, 07:57 PM
My Puma 92 in .375 with the 16" barrel is a very handy defense rifle. It now share the spot next to my 870 in the home defense "go to guns". Plus I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, but a good smack to the head with the metal plate on the butt end, will cave the head in of an attacker very nicely, IF that option was needed:D

Cosmoline
January 10, 2007, 09:13 PM
Or you can try a patented Rio Bravo Smackdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKrAUoD5dtc&mode=related&search=

SniperStraz
January 10, 2007, 09:20 PM
--More control over bullet expansion and hence less overpentration risks

How would you have more control over expansion? You may have a better chance of a good expansion, but I dunno about control. I bring this up not to contradict you, but rather in hopes of learning something new.

M110
January 10, 2007, 09:43 PM
The "El Dorado" smack down would work too. * The scene where Robert Mitchem clobbers Ed Asner with his 94 * :D

Grey54956
January 10, 2007, 09:48 PM
A pistol caliber carbine is a good choice for home defense.

The effects of recoil are greatly mitigated by weapon weight and being shoulder fired. This means follow up shots will be quick and fairly accurate. Magazines are usually high capacity pistol magazines, which is good.

Remember, don't clear your house unless necessary. Hole up and ambush if necessary while waiting for help. Shoot as often as necessary. If you are going to pll the trigger once, hit it again for good measure.

OpFlash
January 10, 2007, 10:19 PM
I think a pistol carbine is the best weapon for home defense, over even a shotgun. They are short and handy, and immensely easier to achieve hits with than a pistol. They will not leave you deaf. It is very easy to squeeze off multiple rounds VERY fast and VERY accurately (assuming it's semi auto). A shot gun is no easier to hit someone with (contrary to popular belief) and if you miss you are stunned by the noise and recoil and cannot make a follow up shot nearly as quickly or accurately. They ARE more powerful than pistols of similar caliber. A 9mm carbine will produce .357 magnum velocities and energy.

If you have to clear the house do it with a pistol held close to the body, but if not dial 911 and wait in the bedroom with your carbine.

Grey54956 I didn't read your post before I posted because I only read the first few, but we said almost the same things!

de
January 10, 2007, 10:40 PM
I didn't read all the posts (because I'm lazy) but in the first 3 or 4 posts it was stated that carbines offer a few more FPS than a handgun with the same loading. How about between 400 & 600 fps more depending on the type of powder. Example; 17 grains of H110 behind a 158 grain jacketed HP in a 357 magnum carbine gives 1829 fps. The same load in a 6" barrel revolver 1389 fps. That's a difference of 440 fps. So, I guess you could say a carbine gives a few more fps. This gives the carbine (in this case a 357mag) a power level close to 3030, inside 100 yds.
Next, let's look at penetration. The 357mag is noted for good penetration. Can you imagine adding another 440 fps to this. Home defense yes, but careful. Also as far as a prosecuter not accepting self-defense at 100 yards. Who made that rule? Shooting a perp at ANY range is allowed if he is a threat, or has already harmed someone and is fleeing. Self defense is not black and white. The only black and white is you are going to have to show just cause for deadly force. Unless of course you are in the Chicago area. There you will be prosecuted regardless of the circumstances. :eek:

Cosmoline
January 11, 2007, 12:49 AM
How would you have more control over expansion? You may have a better chance of a good expansion, but I dunno about control. I bring this up not to contradict you, but rather in hopes of learning something new

Becuase the more velocity you can command, the more expansion you can ensure. If you're limited to .357 Magnum handgun velocities, you're going to be facing more problems getting reliable expansion, esp. with heavier bullets. The carbine allows you to get considerably more velocity, which in turn helps you get more performance. The down side is too much velocity can make the bullets fall apart on impact, but for one thing we're not talking about anything beyond 2,000 fps and for another you can always select sturdier bullets.

callgood
January 11, 2007, 10:36 AM
P.S. I don't get the whole thing about the BG disarming you, if you have a long gun...Can't envision a REALISTIC scenario where you'd ever be that close(unless you're really dumb---no offence). And, for that matter, my little carbine isn't much bigger than alot of handguns.

dfaugh


I'm no fan of pistol caliber rifles, but I read that a short barrel rifle, M4, etc., protrudes no further than a pistol held in a Weaver, isosceles grip in a clearing scenario.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pistol caliber carbines for self defense?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!