[ShooterMcGavin]

I am currently deciding between a couple gun models (mainly SA XD .40 & S&W M&P .40) in both standard and compact sizes. I want a gun that is big enough to be accurate enough, but not slightly too large that I am hesitant to bring it along on hot summer days. A gun that is left at home is useless.

How do you like your compact? Is it a big compromise in terms of accuracy or otherwise (capacity, feel, etc.)? Does it really allow you to bring it along when a standard-size would have been left behind?

On another note...
A salesman at my local shop was saying that the only part of a gun that raises concern with size is the grip length; it's not the barrel, because that can be concealed easily. Do you agree with that?? If so, then I can essentially rule out one of my options, the XD .40 sub-compact WITH the extended clip. If the grip is really the only size-concern-part, then should I just stop splitting hairs and go with the standard (probably M&P in that case)?

I will be a new gun owner. Opinions are appreciated.

[Manedwolf]

I found grip WIDTH to be the issue, not length. Hence why I chose a Taurus PT745 instead of PT145, single stack versus double. It's thinner. The double was too thick.

And yes, I love it. Reliable, accurate, nearly a pocket .45ACP, 20oz unloaded.

[possum]

i have the sa xdsc .40 and i love it. it is a great little gun, accurate as my service model out to 25yds, reliable as heck and a joy to shoot. they are well balanced even more so than the service model i believe, and they are much quicker to get on target than i thought. the recoil isn't an issue as i thought it would be in such a small gun, as a matter of fact it is almost exactly to me the way that the service model recoils wierd i know maybe i am just used to it, but it is not a problem holding it steady and getting perfet scores, in all cqb drills. i carry mine in either a paddle holster or as of late a galco miami classic leather shoulder holster.

the best way to carry the xdsc on your hip is with the 9-10rd mag depending on caliber, because like the salesman said is true, but just use the smaller capacity magazines, and keep the hi-cap mags for back ups. or when concealing the weapon isn't the issue at hand, ie home defense gun.

i love the xd's and i love my sc .40 xd and i wouldn't take nothing for them, i need to shoot my sc more as you can see from my signature, but i love it and i have had zero problems, to date and i forsee no issues in the future either, xd's are top notch. the xdsc would make a great sc carry gun for anyone that is in the market!

btw you will most likely need to add a pierce finger extenstion to give you a little more hold on the grip with the low capacity mags. i know i did and i have smaller hands. to easy they are cheap and easy to instal.

[mdao]

For me, the difficulty in concealing is in the butt length.

I have a M&P9 in both full-sized and compact, and 1911's in Commander and CCO configurations. Concealment really depends on the clothes and concealment method. For me, it's mostly tuckable IWB. With tucked dress shirts bloused around the waist, I can conceal the full sized grip guns easily. With polos and untucked t-shirts, the full sized grip obviously prints with certain movements, but the short grip guns is stays fully concealed.

The main impact on shootability is the loss of .5" of sight radius on the M&P9 full size vs compact. No loss of sight radius on the 1911's. The extended baseplate provides for a full grip on the M&P Compact, the CCO's grip is already big enough for a full grip.

/They really should make more CCO style guns.

[Navy87Guy]

Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "it depends"...

I used to carry a Walther P99 Compact. I got it because I really liked my P99 full-size, but I wanted something smaller for concealed carry. I used a Comp-Tac Pro Undercover IWB holster at about 5 o'clock. The P99C was very concealable and very comfortable -- but it didn't shoot nearly as well as my full-size model. Eventually I switched back to the full size and realized that it carried just about as well as the compact. So I sold the small gun in favor of the better shooter (and higher capacity -- 17 rds vs. 10 rds).

Right now I carry a PX4 Storm - which is also a full-sized pistol. I agree that the grip is the biggest factor in keeping it concealed. The barrel will take care of itself in your holster. The length and the angle of the grip (and associated magazines) are the hard part. With both the PX4 and the P99, I found that the longer grip was compensated by the angle, which didn't print as much. I used to have the smaller Sig P228 and it was harder to conceal (for me).

The best thing to do is try them out - which isn't always easy. Body type/frame, size, holster type, etc. will all be factors that no one can predict for you. What works well for one person may be a total disaster for you. That's why most of us end up with drawers full of holsters and go through a series of guns before finding the right combination.

I know that's probably not the answer you wanted, but that's my $0.02 worth.

Jim

[10-Ring]

1st - Welcome to the party! ;)
As for compact guns...I have guns I consider "compact" - G19, UPSc 9, commander sized 1911 and my P7M8. There are guns out there that are smaller but I just don't like guns so small I can't get a decent grip on (personal preference thing).
All of my compact guns carry easily but will depend on you, you physical build, the way you indent to carry & in the summer months, how you will be dressed. It may come down to buying your gun, train w/ it & find the best way to carry it....time & experience will tell how well it works for you.

[tydephan]

I carry a Glock 26 (subcompact) every day in a Galco Ultra Deep Conceal tuckable IWB holster. This holster is fantastic, but offers no retention (which I don't have a huge problem with.)

The magazine extension (as pictured below - standard on the M&P's and XD's, I think) is a Pearce +0 XL. You original synapsis is correct. The grip is the only thing you really must conceal. Adding the magazine extension adds more that you must conceal, but for me it was a great trade off. The mag extension allows me to control the weapon better and more importantly, it allows me to actually present quicker. Before the extension, I had a hard time drawing the weapon from the holster.

Everything below the red line is completely concealed. Everything above the red line can be concealed by a shirt (tucked or untucked).

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/UDC_concealed.jpg

It works for me. Good luck to you!
John

[Cousin Mike]

...after a couple dozen months carrying full-sized .45's & .357's, I can honestly say I think I've finally found concealed carry bliss. I never complained about carrying a full-sized pistol, and I never thought it was all that difficult to tote, or keep concealed... but to be honest, recently I'd been thinking... I didn't want to go through another summer carrying another 5", 40 oz. pistol, and dealing w/everything that comes with it.

I bought the Glock 33, and a +1 mag extension - a cheap OWB Glock brand holster, an extra mag (the gun came w/2) and a Fobus mag carrier... The first time I strapped all this stuff on, I knew I'd probably never carry a full-sized pistol again. The 2 mags in the Fobus holder provide (what feels like) an exact balance, with the pistol @ 3 o'clock, and the mags at 9 o'clock... That balance makes all the difference in the world.

Carrying my P220, my SIG Pro or my 1911, there was always an extraordinary amount of weight on my right side that the mags couldn't balance out. Even when it wasn't uncomfortable (which it was almost 100% of the time), you could always feel it... you always knew it was there. The Glock is the only gun I've carried that I can forget I'm wearing.

I don't like pocket pistols, and will never carry one... I simply don't need THAT much carry convenience that I'd be willing to sacrifice everything else. The subcompact Glock is plenty small enough for comfortable concealed carry, while still being easy to fire rapidly and accurately, and long enough in the slide to get a great sight picture. Recoil is nil compared to a .357 Magnum J-frame snubby - so I get more power (.357Sig > Mag w/ short barrels), less recoil, and more than twice the capacity with the G33. I consider it the ultimate carry setup for me. I bought a DeSantis Insider (IWB) for warm weather, which is similar to the holster pictured above... but I slightly modified it to make presentation easier. I don't like deep concealment, and had a hard time presenting my gun, even with the mag extension. Cutting a few inches off the top, a little snip here & there, and re-setting the belt clip made it the perfect IWB holster.

2 holsters, one mag holder, and I'm good all year round no matter the weather. With my other guns, my set up changed constantly depending on the weather, what I'm wearing, etc. I highly recommend a subcompact for CCW without the hassles.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

btw you will most likely need to add a pierce finger extenstion to give you a little more hold on the grip with the low capacity mags. i know i did and i have smaller hands. to easy they are cheap and easy to instal.
The salesman told me that Pearce will (definitely) be coming out with a grip extension piece for the M&P compact. Is that definite? From their website, it doesn't seem that they make an extension for EVERY single compact. How likely is it that I will be able to find a grip extension for the low capacity mag, or a "spacer" to use the large capacity M&P mag with the compact model?

The main impact on shootability is the loss of .5" of sight radius on the M&P9 full size vs compact. No loss of sight radius on the 1911's. The extended baseplate provides for a full grip on the M&P Compact, the CCO's grip is already big enough for a full grip.
My biggest concern with getting a compact size is the grip, in order to maintain control of the gun for accuracy. I'm not worried about the .5" of sighting that I'll lose. The M&P compact does have a built-in grip extension, but the gun is still 1.2" shorter than the full-size, and that all must be length lost in the grip. From the trigger guard up, it's the same as the standard. Your pinky fits on the grip of the compact?

The best thing to do is try them out - which isn't always easy. Body type/frame, size, holster type, etc. will all be factors that no one can predict for you. What works well for one person may be a total disaster for you. That's why most of us end up with drawers full of holsters and go through a series of guns before finding the right combination.
Yep, I think you are right, I need experience with carrying to see how it works for me. Like most people, I am trying to buy the perfect gun on my first try. Hopefully I can find something that I will be happy to carry for 5 or 10 years.

If it helps paint the picture, I have an athletic build, 5'11", 185 lbs. I plan on using mainly 2 holsters (depending on clothing and comfort), an IWB and a shoulder. I am only concerned with concealing issues when using the IWB.

I am leaning toward the M&P compact, but I could be much more secure in that decision if I knew a grip extension or a large capacity mag spacer would be coming out for it. Unfortunately, I think the M&P will only be available for me to audition in the standard size.

[DoubleTapDrew]

Between the two you mentioned I'd choose the XDsc. I have an XD9SC and a Glock 26 and I almost never carry the XD anymore because the grip length and angle of the glock makes it easier to conceal without printing moreso than the XD even though they are both very close in size. I never thought two guns with such similar specs would carry so differently, so yes, the grip length and angle is important. That said, when I am home or around family or somewhere where I care less about printing I usually carry a Glock 23 because it's a .40, holds 3 more rounds, and is easier to grab quickly due to the longer grip.
It depends on if you are comfortable shooting a gun you can only get most of your hand on, or if you require a full grip (you can get the pearce extenders but that adds to grip length). There are guys that carry full size 1911's without problem. Depends on how you dress, your holster choice, and how you're built.
BTW, the only difference I feel between the 26 and 23 is grip length, I don't notice the extra inch of barrel/slide at all. I use a CTAC glock slide holster (open muzzle end, fits all 9mm/.40 Glocks).

[GunNut]

Another Glock 26 carrier.

It's the best combination of size/capacity that I have found for CCW.

Steve

[Cousin Mike]

...Welcome to THR, Shooter!

+1 on the Pearce grip extensions. That's what mine are. I also bought the +0 extension, but it didn't work for me... I couldn't get it not to print. I figured at $10 a pop, I could afford to gamble on a couple. I carry the Pearce +1 extention in the gun, for a total of 11 rounds in the G33, and two 9 round reloads. The Pearce "Plus Extension" and the "Grip Extension XL" are worlds apart in fit and feel. See if you can handle each on the weapon before spending the dough.

[GeorgiaGlocker]

I carry a Glock 23 most of the time in a 15 degree forward cant holster. The cant helps conceal the butt of the gun buy bringing it up closer to your body thus concealing it better. Just my 2 cents worth.

[distra]

I carry either my bobtailed 1911 Sc commander (most of the time) or my Kahr P45. Both are equally concealable with the Kahr being a little more stealthy. I like the compact Kahr P45 and just picked up a Springer Micro Compact 1911 to give some more options. :D From what I've been hearing the XD 45 compact and EMP from Springfield are both good for CCW. Neither of them is a "pocket gun", though.

[ShooterMcGavin]

It depends on if you are comfortable shooting a gun you can only get most of your hand on, or if you require a full grip (you can get the pearce extenders but that adds to grip length).
That's what is bugging me. The M&P compact .40 is not available yet, so I can't even hold it in hand at this point. If the grip were only .5" longer, I'd feel pretty happy about the hand coverage. Waiting until the gun is in stores, to hold it before ordering it, might have me waiting at least a month or maybe 2.

+1 on the Pearce grip extensions... See if you can handle each on the weapon before spending the dough
Thanks for the welcome!
Will Pearce definitely be coming out with something for the M&P compact?
I think your advice is good, but that might have me waiting for a long time.

[AK103K]

Personally, I'd rather carry the biggest pistol I comfortably can. The chopped down guns tend to give up ammo, shootability, and often reliability. The difference between full size and compact can often be very little too, especially when you compare them side by side.

I'm not a real big person at 5' 6", 165 lbs., and have never had any troubles carrying full sized pistols. Dress and attitude will allow you to carry pretty much anything. Why limit yourself?

[ugaarguy]

How do you like your compact? Is it a big compromise in terms of accuracy or otherwise (capacity, feel, etc.)?
Everything is a compromise. To what degree you need to compromise for concealability is dictated by how you need to dress.
Does it really allow you to bring it along when a standard-size would have been left behind?
Here's a quick breakdown on what's worked for me. If I'm wearing pants or shorts with a belt, then concealing a full size 1911 is no problem as long as I have both a good sturdy belt & a good sturdy holster. I'll be picking up a Commander size 1911 when I get back to the US. The 3/4" shorter bbl will be great for when I'm driving or otherwise seated for long periods of time. A 2&1/2" bbl S&W K frame carries very nicely either IWB or OWB, and a with a loose polo or button down it's comfortable to conceal. My absolute "the gun on me is better than the one left behind" gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT. It's no secret here on THR that I think the P3AT in a Comp Tac Centerline neck holster is awesome when wearing a t-shirt & gym shorts for jogging, or just general summer loafing around. The P3AT also disappears in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, even in thin summer weight dress pants that are cut a little tighter than my casual pants.

Those are different things that have worked for me depending on what the situation has demanded. The common elements are quality holsters (good belt for belt holsters too), dressing to fit the gun, and fitting the gun to the circumstances (dress clothes, driving, etc) when they demand. Look at how you have to dress, how you prefer to dress, your daily activities, etc. Then find the guns that fit your lifestyle. As you can see there are several guns that I carry depending on the situation.

[Skywarp]

I love my SIG P239 for CCW. It's a Slim gun with great balance and chock full of 357SIGy goodness.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Good info, ugaarguy. Thanks. Part of my problem is that this will be the first and only gun I will own for at least a little while (a year or so). That means I won't have a gun that is easy to conceal with summer clothes and another to keep under a winter jacket. Maybe that's what I really need, 2 new guns :) It is valid, I don't have only ONE hat (for example) that suits me equally well throughout the summer and winter. I was really trying to make due with one gun that would suit me year-round. Some friends do that.

Skywarp, I really like the Sig line, but I don't think I will be getting one, due to the weight and cost.

I think the XD is probably not what I will get, unless I really don't like the M&P after shooting it. I keep going back and forth, regarding the standard and compact M&P. I am still up in the air, but I have gotten some good ideas and good advice. Waiting for the compact model to show up in stores is certainly my best bet. Damn, I hate waiting.

Thanks for the help!

[The Lone Haranguer]

It is indeed possible to go too small with a defensive handgun, but in the case of the guns you mention, the compact versions give up little or nothing in shooting and handling qualities. I have shot a full-sized M&P and liked it, but purchased the compact 9mm, and I can tell little meaningful difference - until I carry it concealed. Even smaller guns such as the Kahr PM9 (I have one of those too) also shoot well, but you have to shorten the range a bit. Unless it is to be used as a very deep concealment or backup gun, I don't think you should go smaller than the Kahr.