Springfield Armory Made in the USA?


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ChefJeff1
January 12, 2007, 12:36 AM
I thought Springfield Armory 1911's were made in the USA. I'm considering 1 for my first 1911 and my first .45. http://redstradingpost.com/auctions_AA.php

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Baba Louie
January 12, 2007, 01:23 AM
Brazil.
Still and all, good 1911's.
Just don't believe they're mfg in the US ala Colt, Kimber, S&W etc.
I do believe that one or two of SA's high end 1911's are forged in Brazil yet finished (read final machine work, fitting, i.e. mfg'd) here in the US... tho I could be wrong.

Skywarp
January 12, 2007, 02:12 AM
Made in Brazil



But then again, so was Adriana Lima. Google Image Search her and see why made in Brazil isn't such a bad thing.

Old Dog
January 12, 2007, 04:52 AM
Once again, please acquaint yourself with the "search" function. SA 1911s ARE produced in the USA, although SA frames are manufactured by Imbel -- in Brazil. The remainder of the parts are made here. The pistols are put together in the good ol' USA. Springfield Armory is USA-owned, headquartered in USA, and as the company notes, the "Oldest name in firearms manufacturing in the U.S.A."

As far as factory production 1911s go, SA is considered in the "top 3" of current makers, along with Colt and Kimber.

Crosscut
January 12, 2007, 05:06 AM
Skywarp,

10-4 on Adriana Lima.

Nightcrawler
January 12, 2007, 05:11 AM
Imbel uses good steel in their guns. They make the only other forged FAL receivers still in production. (DSA makes them also).

I wouldn't worry about that. Heck, even Armscor (Filippines) uses good steel. STI has a gun called the "Spartan" that're Armscor frames/slides put together by STI.

marlin.357
January 12, 2007, 06:28 AM
"Oldest name in firearms manufacturing in the U.S.A."

May be the oldest name, but one of the newest companies. Couldn't let you slip that by :D

Handyman
January 12, 2007, 06:43 AM
Springfield Armory is in Massachusetts . The sad part is that MA. residents can't buy their handguns because of the rediculous gun laws . You can only buy an older used gun . :banghead:

marlin.357
January 12, 2007, 07:08 AM
"The" Springfield Armory is (was) in Massachusetts, but Springfield Armory USA is located in Geneseo, Illinois. The Springfield Armory closed in the 1960's and Springfield Armory USA "resurrected" the Springfield Armory name in 1974. The only connection between the Springfield Armory and Springfield Armory USA is the name.

ROAshooter
January 12, 2007, 07:08 AM
Sorry dude...SA is in Illinois...

distra
January 12, 2007, 07:24 AM
SA is in Illinois...

which has just as rediculous gun laws and no CCW :barf: I just purchased a Springer Micro compact 1911 with Novak night sights. Can't wait to shoot it!

iamkris
January 12, 2007, 08:02 AM
As odd as it may seem, there are actually several well known gun companies in Illinois...go figure


Springfield Armory
Armalite -- ARs 'n such
DSA - of FAL fame
Les Baer -- of 1911 and AR fame
Richard Hiene - of sights fame
Model 1 Sales -- AR parts
White Oak Armament -- maker of superb match ARs

Quintin Likely
January 12, 2007, 08:16 AM
I think the higher end Springfields, like the Professional model, are all 100% USA.

foghornl
January 12, 2007, 08:31 AM
Hey, I'm a regular guy....made in Brazil "Adriana Lima"...WOW! :evil: :D

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

I have 2 SA 1911's...a 4" Champion, and a GI-45. Both are solid guns, work exactly as designed. IIRC, both are marked "Geneseo, IL USA" or words to that effect.

Onmilo
January 12, 2007, 09:03 AM
The Springfield Mil-Surps and the High capacity .45s are made in Brazil, lock stock and barrel.
The semi custom .45s are all assembled and fitted in Illinois using a combination of different manufacturers parts but the frames and slides are still Brazilian investment castings or forgings depending on the type of pistol involved.

The Springfield XDs are still made lock stock and barrel in Croatia.

Armalite has introduced a pistol this year that is made in Turkey and it is based on the CZ-85 only much, much better fit and finish.
Really well made pistol worth looking into but expensive for being produced in a third world country.

DoubleTapDrew
January 12, 2007, 12:03 PM
Google Image Search her and see why made in Brazil isn't such a bad thing.
DON'T DO THIS AT WORK! :eek:

I knew the XD was made in Croatia but didn't realize the 1911's were produced in Brazil. I wonder if they are near Taurus's 1911 plant?

DogBonz
January 12, 2007, 12:20 PM
I think that I remember hearing that their high end guns, such as the TRP, were 100% made in the USA.

OpFlash
January 12, 2007, 12:29 PM
So Armscor's are from the Philippines? Does that include the Rock Island Armory 1911s? I just bought one of those.

ChefJeff1
January 12, 2007, 12:29 PM
ok, ok, I'll still get one one of these days. If everyone just used the search button there would be no forum, just a database. Besides, maybe someone new has something to add that wouldn't be in the search results. :cool:

RNB65
January 12, 2007, 12:30 PM
SA 1911's are made by Imbel in Brazil. The only SA 1911's made in the US are some of the custom shop models which are hand assembled in the US using parts imported from Brazil.

The pistols are put together in the good ol' USA.

I believe that is untrue. Almost all SA 1911's are fully assembled in Brazil. Only the most high-end custom shop models are assembled in the US.

AndyC
January 12, 2007, 12:34 PM
As mentioned before, Imbel is a well-respected name amongst the FAL fraternity - no issue using their stuff at all.

MikeH
January 12, 2007, 01:12 PM
So Armscor's are from the Philippines? Does that include the Rock Island Armory 1911s?

Yes.

Filipino gun nuts (I use this term with the utmost respect and affection) take pride in that the .45 ACP cartridge was developed based on experience fighting Moro warriors in the Philippines.

nplant
January 12, 2007, 01:21 PM
Adriana Lima not withstanding, Brazil has a large amount of slave labor. Yes, that's correct, humans in bondage doing work for other humans for nothing. I doubt very much if there are slaves involved in the production of pistol frames, but in the agriculture arena, it is a force that is still in vogue. Some Brazilian beef and produce are cultivated and harvested by slave labor. It's hard to say how much, and it's hard to say what other industries may also use it.

rodinal220
January 12, 2007, 01:29 PM
Does SA Forge,cast,MIM or mill(from scratch) their own parts??I don't think so.They are a large gunsmithing operation that subs out for parts,they are assemblers.While they may be manufacturers in the eyes of BATFE,folks now days want to know exactly what they are buying.

The SA 1911s have always been made by Imbel in Brasil.They are an excellent product.I remember buying the gunsmith "parts in a bag" in the mid eighties.As correctly stated the XD line is a Croation design and has been floating around for years before SA bought the rights to sell it here in the USA.

I like SA products but know what you are buying.They do try and push "made in America" thing.I once questioned one of their reps at a SHOT show about their "NEW" M1 rifle(Garand),rep stated it was ALL new and that they made every part.Folks in the know that the rifle is made up from surplus USGI parts and after market stock(Boyd),barrel(Wilson),receiver(Breda/Beretta).
I sprung the trap and queried the rep about the obvious USGI contractor markings on the rifle.He again told me that the SA meant Springfield Armoury and they(The New SA) made the parts.:neener:

Handyman
January 12, 2007, 01:36 PM
I alays thought the Springfield Armory in Mass. still made guns . The place is national historical / museum now .
I stll can't buy Sprinfield armory handguns because they aren't Mass. aproved .

rodinal220
January 12, 2007, 02:05 PM
The "real" Government Armory closed its doors in 1968.Here is a link to a brief history of the Armory from the National Park Service.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/spar/history.html

Kruzr
January 12, 2007, 02:15 PM
The company Springfield Armory, Inc. bought the rights to the name Springfield Armory. Other than that, there is no connection.

According to Deb in Springfield's Custom Shop, all SA 1911's except the TRP's and the Custom Shop Guns are completely made by Imbel in Brazil. Most are assembled there also. The TRP's are assembled using cherry picked parts in Geneseo. The Custom Shop guns are made on Imbel frames and slides.

It used to be if you saw a NM serial number, it meant it was assembled here in the US. I'm not sure that is still the case.

Detritus
January 12, 2007, 03:04 PM
Almost all SA 1911's are fully assembled in Brazil. Only the most high-end custom shop models are assembled in the US.


It used to be if you saw a NM serial number, it meant it was assembled here in the US. I'm not sure that is still the case.

well the two "WW2 GI" models with NM serial #s in a local shop have "made in USA" on em, and they're about $100 more than the ones with no-NM prefix and "made in brazil" that i see elsewhere...

so i suspect that "NM" still means it's a US assembled and finished gun. and in a GI i'm assuming it means "US assembled from a surplus of spare parts".

as to where the rest of the line is made, i don't really mind one way or another, they're good guns.

Kruzr
January 12, 2007, 03:14 PM
well the two "WW2 GI" models with NM serial #s in a local shop have "made in USA" on em, and they're about $100 more than the ones with no-NM prefix and "made in brazil" that i see elsewhere...

so i suspect that "NM" still means it's a US assembled and finished gun. and in a GI i'm assuming it means "US assembled from a surplus of spare parts".

I bet you would find they have one piece barrels also rather than the standard Springfield 2 piece. :)

As I understand it, some of the mil-specs and the first WW2 models were made here and were stamped with the "NM." That's why you don't see the made in Brazil marking on the dust cover. You will find some with the "N" serial number and the Brazil marking also.

Neo-Luddite
January 12, 2007, 03:45 PM
Funny thing is, their HQ in Geneseo is right on US 6 and very un-noteworthy.
It kinda looks (unless things changed) like the waiting room of a dentists office inside of an old Ponderossa resturant.

They are really good folks and have worked on my gear (original M-1 and 'NM1911a1' purchased in 1992) several times on the spot when I have showed up at there doorstep without an appointment. It wasn't cheap, but I especially liked the peace of mind of having pros rebarrel and gas system my Garand on the spot. So I can't speak ill of there service AT ALL. Nice folks that know their sh*t. Of course, I dealt with an armorer---not a sales rep!

However...They are really nebulous about where their gear comes from.

rodinal220
January 12, 2007, 03:47 PM
The NM prefix has been used by SA for some time.I have a SA gunsmith fit(over sized rails) frame I purchased directly from SA with the NM prefix.This frame was purchased in the early 90s.I suspect SA was/is trying to state that this is a "National Match" part.However,I have another complete factory SA 1911 that also has the NM prefix.This also was a early 90s production Springer.The rails are not over sized but the horizontal and vertical fit is pretty good,but not hard fitted.

Neo-Luddite
January 13, 2007, 01:46 PM
I had gun dealers tell me (with a straight face) that 'NM' signified 'nineties model' for SA guns as they made a minor change to the design of the 1911a1 tigger mechanism. Whatever. It's been a solid pistol and withstood much abuse.

Rescue
January 13, 2007, 02:18 PM
Adriana Lima not withstanding, Brazil has a large amount of slave labor. Yes, that's correct, humans in bondage doing work for other humans for nothing.
Those humans in bondage you imagined are ridiculous.

There are, however, rural workers living in substandard conditions, in a situation known as "coronelismo". Brazil is a country of continental size, and police and state activity is concentrated in the large cities (like São Paulo, third largest city in the world). The state is lacking in some of the more backwater regions, like the Amazon. In these areas, landlords provide the only jobs available, for ludicrous salaries. In some of these farms, the only way an employee has of buying basic goods (food, spice, soap, medicines, tobacco, ammo) is from the landlord himself. The problem is that the salaries are often not enough to buy the basic stuff a man needs to survive and provide to his family. The worker ends up in a perpetual debt. He virtually works for free. Some of these landlords enforce the "payment of the debts" with pistoleros.

The workers do not leave the farms, because there is no other opportunity available. You end up with workers under "slavery conditions", a term used in Brazil. No bondage though.

I doubt very much if there are slaves involved in the production of pistol frames, but in the agriculture arena, it is a force that is still in vogue.
I´ve visited Imbel´s plant in Itajubá. Their employees are engineers from the military institute of engineering, one of the top engineering schools of Latin America. Actually, last time I checked, the salary of a production line employee worker was bigger than mine, and I am lower middle class (which puts me on the top 20% of the population, when it comes to monetary income).

Some companies operating in areas that typically benefit from abusive labor practices such as the sugar, coal and soy industries, have signed agreements to ban any form of involvement with farmers listed in the “lista suja” (laundry list – those with records of using slave labour).

The police occasionally raids farms that have been accused of keeping workers under slavery conditions. Inspectors protected by heavily armed policemen storm those properties without notice. If confirmed, the farm is closed, their debts are declared unconstitutional, and their wages are calculated and paid by the farmers, who will be then taken to court.

It is a shameful problem.

Some Brazilian beef and produce are cultivated and harvested by slave labor. It's hard to say how much, and it's hard to say what other industries may also use it.
Mainly coal and soy. These are the ones I´ve seen police actions against.

I am about to hit the supermarket, I wrote this in a hurry, so sorry about any bad English.

PS: I am partial to Joana Prado.

MatthewVanitas
January 13, 2007, 02:52 PM
Armalite has introduced a pistol this year that is made in Turkey and it is based on the CZ-85 only much, much better fit and finish.
Really well made pistol worth looking into but expensive for being produced in a third world country.

I certainly wouldn't call Turkey a "third world country". It's a democratic, secular republic with a pretty solid economic base and high literacy.

It's not exactly Haiti or Liberia. Maybe Argentina would be a fair comparison?

-MV

chicanorojo
January 13, 2007, 03:08 PM
I certainly wouldn't call Turkey a "third world country". It's a democratic, secular republic with a pretty solid economic base and high literacy.

It's not exactly Haiti or Liberia. Maybe Argentina would be a fair comparison?

-MV

FWIW, a country that qualifies for joining the EU.

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