[Manedwolf]

PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh police say a group of armed robbers is targeting college students, apparently because the robbers think the students are easy targets.

Police say at least nine students have been robbed in the city's Oakland section, home to Pitt, Carnegie Mellon University and Carlow College, since early December.

During one robbery, a Pitt student was talking on a cell phone which the robbers stole, along with the student's automatic teller machine card. The phone was still on and the robber was recorded on the student's parents' telephone answering machine making remarks about students being easy targets.

Nobody has been hurt in the robberies. Cash was stolen in each instance.

http://www.wgal.com/news/10731742/detail.html

[The Real Hawkeye]

Of course they're easy targets. Most colleges forbid firearms on campus. If I were a mugger, I'd be zeroing in on college students too. No gun zones attract victimizers (both the armed and unarmed types) like honey attracts flies. How smart do you need to be to figure this out?

[Gus Dddysgrl]

Wow. I always knew college students are easy targets. Many reasons: one they aren't used to being on their own. Two they haven't been scared by the real world, and haven't really been in the real world yet. (Unless maybe they are seniors.) Three they are usually in their own little world...often drunk little world. And four they can't protect themselves except with a rape whistle. (no guns allowed)
That's the big joke at my college. What is a rape whistle gonna do? Students use the rape whistle as a big joke.
I wish I could carry on campus, but I can't. So at least I don't ignore my surroundings especially late at night.
So glad I graduate in May and can carry pretty much everywhere I plan to go after that.
Gus

[TWeatherford]

Yep, add the fact that most of us don't use the bank a lot and have a tendency to carry all of our cash with us, we make a pretty nice target. At least I'm allowed to have a folding knife at school.

[Bubbles]

Don't forget in most states you can't get a CHL until you're 21 years old. Undergrads are younger than that.

[Rick O'Shea]

Here's another thought:

Get off the frickin' phone and pay attention to where you are and what you're doing!

(this does not just apply to college students...)

If I were a mugger, rapist, kidnapper, or other hunter/stalker type of criminal, I would consider the cell phone to be the greatest invention ever.
Thousands upon thousands of blissfully unaware, self-absorbed victims.

<Rant building up... better stop now..... >

[RNB65]

Yep. Armed robberies and break-ins are a dime-a-dozen around the VCU campus here in Richmond. The good news is that the perps are almost always caught eventually.

[Wasz]

Oakland does kinda suck. If you go too far from campus it can get crappy. A few blocks away from the campus last year a guy had his throat slashed open after handing over his wallet. College students tend to have cash, tend to be drunk and tend to be totally unaware.

[mete]

There was a court case which changed things .IIRC there are students who are convicted criminals and the schools also did their best to hide crime statistics .That court case made it easier to get the schools crime records....But the typical college student is totally clueless , despite the well publicized abductions ,rapes , murders. The most recent murder was apparently done by a man who had been stalking a group of girls . They did little about it !!

[Heavy Metal Hero]

I thought if you could legally carry outside of school (CCW) then you could carry while on campus? Doesn't state law trump a university's "code of conduct?"

[wolf_from_wv]

I thought if you could legally carry outside of school (CCW) then you could carry while on campus? Doesn't state law trump a university's "code of conduct?"

Then stores couldn't put up signs either, could they? :D

There was an armed robbery of 2-3 college students near hear who were sled riding on a snow day. Seems like he got less than $20. Tip: College students sled riding on a snow day, probably don't have much money on them, or they would be somewhere else... :D ;)

[Bergerboy]

Well I'd hate to see the guy after he tried to get this college student :cool:

But yeah......campus rules prevent carrying a weapon, and state law here in Georgia prevents anyone from carrying a firearm on any campus.

[carterbeauford]

If you can manage to not get hit by a PATransit bus, you stand a pretty good chance of getting robbed in Oakland. Sad that two schools of such prestige are located in such an unsafe area. I would never go there unarmed.

[Jim K]

A rape whistle? On a college campus that sounds like an invitation to come and join the fun.

Jim

[M14fan]

There are some really vicious martial arts available that do not require years of disciplined instruction to be effective. Krav Maga and Progressive Fighting Systems leap immediately to mind and I am sure there are others. True mastery of these arts still requires years of training but most can learn enough in a few days to greatly improve their defensive capabilities. Most of all, these kids need to be aware of their surroundings. The mind is the weapon, everything else falls into the category of tools.

[cdcmj]

i go to Pitt, i live in south oakland, my only option...an 870 in a mossberg loc-box in my closet, cruiser ready 24/7

[Beagle-zebub]

The University of Delaware is always having muggings, as well as a rape every so often (or all of the time, depending upon how you count), and even a stranger rape/homicide/arson case two or so years ago. Newark, DE is not a safe place after hours, by any stretch of the imagination.

Hyde Park, where I currently reside, is one of the most amazing police states I've ever witnessed. The neighborhood is patrolled by the University of Chicago Police Department, which is supposedly the second largest private police-force in the world, and yet I have recently started seeing CAPS (Chicago Area Police Service, I think) vehicles in concentrations as high as six to a block. Needless to say, someone gets mugged or groped every two weeks, and a former resident of my house (houses are subdivisions of dorms here) was stabbed in the street four times by an apparently homeless guy--he was able to walk to the UCPD station, which says volumes about the relationship between policing and individual commissions of crimes.

[MechAg94]

When I was a college student, I didn't carry much money at all. I guess some students have more money than I did.

[DoubleTapDrew]

That's why when I was in college I carried, to hell with the rules.
I was broke though :) Cash was replaced with an ID/Meal card.

[sm]

Dear Criminals,

As an older returning student myself; I have some news for you.
It is not baiting if you are attracted to me and you get hurt.
Quite a few older returning students commute and attend college as I do and there is an old adage:
Bribery, Blackmail, Cheating, Deceit, and being plumb Down and Dirty Mean - will outdo youth and skill any day of the week.

Oh, there are Younger students, ladies and gents that have this attitude as do Faculty and Staff as well.
There are Posted signs, State Regulations and all - these are to keep you guys from getting hurt.
We students have taken steps - especially we older ones raised right.

Speaking of Criminals - allow me to address the Politicians of the State .

I and others were raised to be responsible for ourselves and not be pawns of political agenda.
You politicians took bribes and voted to give away our Liberties and eroded our Freedoms for the sake of Tyranny. We do not appreciate this, and we will Never Forget.

Now if one of your Political family members, such as wife, teenage daughter , or sister is beaten, raped and killed commuting to and from a school campus, or while on campus - you have yourself and colleagues to blame for denying people rights and giving criminals more ease of committing crimes.


Not everything comes from a building with Education on the door.
Some of us have Street Smarts, Common Sense and Awareness.

Do you?

Regards,

Steve

[Geronimo45]

College students have changed in recent years - almost all of 'em are carrying a cell phone - they'll be on the cell or an Ipod when not in class. A lot of 'em carry laptops, too.

[armedpolak]

we had better things ( http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=338325&page=2 )

but to be serious, on NCSU campus, where I spend 4 years of my sheappyyy years, there were incidents. the most shocking one was a kid shot in a face in front of a campus book store. it happened in the evening. and i don't think they caught the guy.

money, not much did i have in my pockets back then. nor were my eyes open to wonders of 1911sss :evil:

AP

[Praxis]

Wow, great to see both my undergrad school (Pitt) and grad. school (Delaware) mentioned in the same post. :eek:

Living in South Oakland in Pittsburgh is where I first started thinking seriously about self defense. Having to walk to and from class at night really makes students easy targets there.

Newark, Delaware, being just of I-95, seems to attract a lot of criminals who are passing by and looking for easy marks.

[kungfuhippie]

Oh, no, we're safe on my college campus. We have these neat little blue poles with lights on them and a phone that connects to campus police.:barf:

Carrying is a NO,

so use other weapons,
A Brain (you were smart enough to get into college)
A knife
Martial Arts
Pepper Spray
GO in groups (not often does a guy rape 5 girls at once)

When my sisters went to school out of state I suggested they get some pepper spray and some SD training. They both didn't listen. Thank God nothing even happened. But on their campus there were some areas that rapes were happening nearly every weekend...They "avoided" those places:rolleyes: They both still have their "rape wistle"
If I have a daughter and she goes to college her "rape wistle" will sound an awful lot like a .357:evil:

[another okie]

I studied one year in Lawrence, Kansas, home of KU. A city police officer told me once that they watched carefully for certain types of vehicles and certain license plate prefixes and just followed them around town until they left.

[Sniper X]

This is a PERFECT example of what it would be like if the gungrabbers got their wish. Any zero tollerance for guns and knives place is an attractant to rapeists and murderers and robbers/burglars....when oh when are they going to get it.

[Turkey Creek]

Well I can see how I'm going to spend my time in a few years- With retirement imminent I guess I can occupy myself with being my grand daughter's personal bodyguard, licensed, the whole bit- Of course she will beg me not to embarress her but my standard response will be, "Of course I will, I'm your grandfather"

[BigO01]

This shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone , not only for all the reasons already stated but for the simple fact that these schools are the major breeding ground for the socialist/pacifists in this country .

What do you think the majority of professors are ?

The remains of the Anti Vietnam war , peace and free love hippies who can't make it in the real word so they teach their garbage to the coming generations .

Why do you think time honored traditions like hunting and shooting started dying so rapidly after the 60's ? More and more people sent their children off to get an indoctrination in socialism and become the pansies they are today .

[Cosmoline]

Mugging is OK. Just don't dress up like a ninja!

http://volumeone.typepad.com/volume_one/images/ninjaarrest.jpg

[Steve N]

My nephew attends the U of Montana. There are gun lockers in his dorm.

[ProguninTN]

Of course students are targets. We're in victim disarmament zones.
Hopefully, the pocketknife is good for something.:mad:

[MarkDido]

I'd be willing to bet that most if not all major colleges hide their crime statistics so as not to scare off potential students.

Anyone know if colleges with their own police force (not security) are required to submit statictics to the UCR?

[BigFunWMU]

I live in quite the college town. The population drops by about a third in the summertime when class lets out.

Most students are friendly and trusting, doing things like leaving houses and cars unlocked. Many college students also have "cool stuff" like laptops, mp3 players etc.

Another thing that leads to problems, particularly in my area: the Student Ghetto, is that it is also a historic neighborhood. The houses are older, and cannot be upgraded without using "traditional" materials, like cedar and singlepane windows. This leads to a situation where landlords aren't willing to pay the unnecessarily high cost of security upgrades to homes. I could walk to all but one or two houses on my street, go to the front door, and break in under 30 seconds. That is if the door is even locked.

This is not something that can be blamed on the "hippy communist whateveryoucallit" professors either. Many of the professors at two large local colleges here are very realistic in their world outlook. The prevention of weapons and self defence on campus mostly comes from the administration, the precinct of the local police that serve the campus (many a-holes there, and a couple nice guys) and the state legislature.

One of my physics professors actually did some of his grad work on firearms and ballistics. :D

The biggest fight is with the administration, the official voice of the colleges. They are more scared of the bad press that would be genereated by one student going whacko than the frequent low-grade violence that happens all around, like the many petty thefts, some burglaries, robberies, the occasional mugging etc.

The college students I know that own firearms are very serious about gun safety. They still have some parties, but the guns unloaded and locked up out of sight for the duration. Guests are not even aware that firearms are in the house.

Most students are aware that bad things happen. Most think that those are things that happen to "other people." Still many are smart with the nightly party thing. Go to parties in groups, have someone sober left at the end of the night to herd the hammered pack home, everyone have a cell phone and stay in contact, bring a freakin flashlight. Little stuff like that makes a big difference.

Another part of the trusting environment is that students also look out for each other. On my block, most of us know each other, and recognize who belongs and ask questions when something looks fishy. Now I don't count on this to actually stop a crime in progess, but it creates a community environment where many of the shady people that were around before aren't now. Rather, they are around, but rarely on my block.




All that said, durning the day many students would be extremely easy targets. On the phone, walking alone, burdened with books/laptop/purse, and trusting the daylight to keep them safe. And on top of that, between class and car (for those who live off campus) firearms are verboten. Michigan law is that CCW is forbidden on campuses, but parking lots don't count as part of the campus. Now, the thought that no gun means no defence is foolish at best. Pepperspray on keychains is common among the ladies (oh wait Mr. Robber, let me hang up my call and dig this thing out, just one more second...), and many of the guys think they are tough enough to fight someone :rolleyes:.

[ProguninTN]

Anyone know if colleges with their own police force (not security) are required to submit statictics to the UCR?

Yes. All colleges/univerisites are required to report per the Jeanne Clery Act. My school formerly had its own police force, but it merged with the city. I suppose that eliminated problems with jurisdiction.

[Ohio Rifleman]

Of course students are targets. We're in victim disarmament zones.
Hopefully, the pocketknife is good for something

That's no good at my university, and I quote from the student code of conduct, basically a list of things forbidden:

"The use, possession, or carrying of weapons, including, but not limited to, pistols, rifles, shotguns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, pellet guns, dangerous knives, ammunition, any stun device, or other dangerous weapons is prohibited while on University-owned or controlled property, or at University-sponsored or supervised activities, except by police officers and other persons specifically authorized by the University"

I don't have classes at night or anything, but still, I'd like to be able to protect myself. When will they understand? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[ProguninTN]

Do chemical irritants count as "dangerous weapons" ?

BTW, I am lucky. My university only prohibits fixed-blade knives. Having a folder, that's not a problem for me.

[Ohio Rifleman]

Do chemical irritants count as "dangerous weapons" ?

No idea. Probably, since the administration likely wants us to be nice and defenseless. Maybe I should email the campus police or something and ask them. I'd feel a little weird carrying pepper spray though...not something men usually carry. :neener:

[robert sherman]

Florida statute prohibits firearms on college campus. Certain non lethal weapons are permitted, under certain circumstances, to matriculated students.

I'm surprised to hear that in some states the college's own rules are the deciding factor.

Interestingly, Florida CWL law has no provision for private establishments to prohibit CWL holders from carrying. They can ask that you leave their property but no crime is involved if you ignore a sign on the door (for example).

CWL laws, like most legislation, is poorly written and open to interpretation. I'm sure it would be great fun to become a test case.

[ProguninTN]

That's true, but it's better than nothing. What about impact weapons ? Are they viable ? (In my state, we can't carry them without a certification card, which I hope to obtain in the future.)

[Ohio Rifleman]

That's true, but it's better than nothing. What about impact weapons ? Are they viable ? (In my state, we can't carry them without a certification card, which I hope to obtain in the future.)

As far as I know, there's no restrictions on getting such things. Ohio is a pretty free state. Might raise some eyebrows, carrying a club around, though.

[ProguninTN]

What about collapsible batons ? Some are small enough that they could be concealed in a briefcase, backpack, etc.

[Ohio Rifleman]

That would likely work, but again, I don't know if that would be allowed for us serfs to even have that much. Have to contact someone to figure that out.

[ProguninTN]

I understand. I have dealt with university administration on non-weapon issues. It was still annoying. :banghead:

[Ohio Rifleman]

Do you think it would do any good to contact the administration about this issue? Or would it be something like this: :banghead:

[SoCalShooter]

These types of attacks occurred out here in SD but were worse than just losing some cash. Self-defense / self-reliance is not really allowed in my state. But most college students I have met (in college right now) have some utopian idea about how the world around them is, they read about the violence in history and it does not seem to register to them that violence has not seceded from our society only put on another mask.


I understand. I have dealt with university administration on non-weapon issues. It was still annoying.


Its just my opinion but there is no such thing as a NON WEAPON. Only objects designed to be weapons and misc objects. However carrying a small blade something foldable like a pocket knife or a swiss knife is not permitted and will get you expelled from my college. I think this proves the point that once you disarm law abiding peaceful citizens that more people are preyed upon.

[EricTheBarbarian]

I go to the University of Cincinnati and armed robbery and rape are not uncommon at all on and around campus. Even if no crime ever happened on campus what about that one street you have to walk down to get to your apartment? Not allowing guns on campus leaves you very vulnerable especially if you take night classes. I think the real problem is that the victims don't point to the no firearms sign when they are being raped or robbed at gun point. If the criminals were aware no guns were allowed on campus they wouldnt commit crimes there:barf:

[mike101]

Quote- "That's why when I was in college I carried, to hell with the rules". Bravo. There is a recurring problem of violent crime on campus at the University of Penn, also. There was just a string of rapes commited by the same man. He was caught, finally, after commiting five rapes(I think). I have frequent doctor's appts. at the hospital there, so guess what I take along with me. I don't even know if there is a rule against it, and I don't give a damn.

ProgunninTN- Those colapsable batons are illegal in NJ. This is not just on campus. They are illegal, period.

Scary, ain't it?

[ProguninTN]

It might be a headache and it might not. My case involved an academic issue, and I had to go through procedures that were inconvenient, and asinine. Your experience may or may not be the same. First, I would check state law for restrictions. Then, check university policy. If you find nothing, then look into contacting administration. Just be warned, you may experience :fire: or :banghead:. OTOH, you might not.

[ProguninTN]

ProgunninTN- Those colapsable batons are illegal in NJ. This is not just on campus. They are illegal, period.

As in illegal just to own ? :what: That is scary. :eek:

[doubleg]

Trust me.. Armed robberies in Oakland are not news. The media just now decieded to start reporting it.

[SoCalShooter]

I go to the University of Cincinnati and armed robbery and rape are not uncommon at all on and around campus.

Your kidding me right? they should be very uncommon on a campus of higher education atlease in my opinion. It shouldnt happen on a school campus, IT SHOULD be the place where you are safe and learning to make yourself better and hopefully the world, this is the reason you should be allowed to carry at school now, because it too is a warzone.

[RP86]

The majority of college students are easy targets. Of course you can't carry on campus, but being aware of your surroundings is your number one tool in the first place. I attend UCF, but I live off campus.

There are many apartment complexes in the area that you avoid whenever possible. Luckily, I live in one where crime/theft is very rare. I did see a black male attempting to break into a car with a coathanger in broad day light over the summer, at the complex I live at. I called the cops, but I was leaving the complex so I don't know how things went. I actually have never heard/seen any type of on campus robberies, could have something to do with the abundance of campus security/police.

Off campus in Pegasus Landing(school affiliated housing complex), there were multiple rapes, home invasions, and shootings a year ago. All of this decreased quickly after security was put into place over the summer.

-Ryan

[gregwalter]

and I shake my head in dissapointment when students leave their cars unlocked with valuables in plain view, or their bookbags and backpacks sitting unaccompanied in the library or cafeteria. There is only so much any security or police dept. can do to protect people and property if the people aren't responsible for themselves. I think that is one of the great things about this site, the fact that most of us are prepared for unusual situations before they happen, as well as looking out for others. I can't walk by a purse or wallet sitting in someone's shopping cart while they're 8 feet away looking at tomatoes, without suggesting to the person that they should keep their valuables with them. Just my 2 cents.

[Ohio Rifleman]

and I shake my head in dissapointment when students leave their cars unlocked with valuables in plain view...

I ALWAYS take my keys out of the ignition and lock my car whenever I leave it for any reason for any length of time. I don't really have valuables that I keep in there anyway...and I keep my school bag locked in the trunk. My dad and brother sometimes do leave they key in the ignition and the car running, when there's someone else inside...but that's a waste of gas.

[Zoogster]

Colleges are one of the pime examples of the left policies in action. Disarmed, dependent on authority, stripped of self reliance. Community and group above individual rights.

It is no wonder students are one of the most ideal targets. They cannot legaly be armed. They are in thier own little world on the phone/ipod, concerned with fashion and self expression, naive and unfamiliar with making decisions on thier own. They rely on police which are everywhere so thier guard is down the majority of the time. They are experimenting with things outside of parental supervision or authority for the first time in many of thier lives, meaning thier boundaries are shifting and not established. This makes them more gullible. They carry laptops and cell phones and large sums of cash much more so than the general public. Thier attitudes and looks and demeanor and attire are the same as the average criminal. So the criminals blend in perfectly. It is in enviroment where tons of people are coming and going aimlessly so criminals looking for targets are not out of place. The big ones are often located near inner cities which have the highest concentration of criminals.

It is just one more example of how police everywhere, cameras everywhere, little blinking lights and whistles, feel good policies and reliance on authority for protection and direction keeps nobody safe. It is no wonder our founding fathers never created or envisioned a society run that way. It would be a disaster. It also would never be free. The only way to provide any real security in such a society is to establish checkpoints everywhere that require ID's. A very large bridge between citizen and authority, for the necessary privelidges of authority to be successful in such a society are great. Eventualy the society resembles more of a prison where people are allowed to work, create taxes, procreate (for more subjects) eat and sleep, with a few mundane community provided recreational activities like organized sports to occupy the remaining needs. Absolute organization and minimum liberties with community provided recreation. It is how Rome worked, only the Colosseum was used instead of sports events. It is the easiest way to run a profitable powerful empire. The elite partake and create great historicly recorded masterpieces, inventions, and conquests. Everyone else exists to enable them to do so. History treats them kindly, for they are the writers of history, and they who decide which writings will be allowed to survive, for they decide what writings will be taught in thier universities, thus shaping the most educated to support them in thier own future writings. Absolute power corrupts absolutely however and eventualy such authoritarian states are destroyed more completely than the rest. Babylon would be another example.

When government believes it is responsible for providing for every need of its population the way it sees fit then you are no longer free.

[mike101]

ProgunninTN- Batons are illegal just to own, along with;
Slingshots
Blackjacks
Brass knuckles
Numchucks
Pepper Spray/Mace
Tasers
Knives with > 3" blades (illegal to carry)

They require permits for;
Airguns (air pistols require handgun permit)
Muzzle loaders
Crossbows

Now, if only they could find a way to make baseball bats illegal. I'm sure Lautenburg is working on it.
:mad:

[red_oak]

ProguninTN, thanks for posting that. I ended up here where a person can check campus crime incidents.
http://ope.ed.gov/security/search.asp

"Yes. All colleges/univerisites are required to report per the Jeanne Clery Act. My school formerly had its own police force, but it merged with the city. I suppose that eliminated problems with jurisdiction."

[1911JMB]

Packing an ASP or a nice and big folding knife is never a bad idea.

[IndianaBoy]

I was always of the opinion that some nitwit college administrators feel-good ideas didn't trump my inherent rights to self defense.

[larry_minn]

Ok decades old. I worked campus security on two Univ. grounds (to pay for school) The one I was attending 2 nights a week the other 2+ nights a month. Anyway both places wanted to reduce,conceal, marginalize any assults/rapes/etc in any way possible.
We are talking they would want the gal to NOT seek medical/legal attention. (needless to say that did not sit well with me) They would rather the gal go home (to avoid people learning about HER SHAME) NOTE this was THEIR take not mine. I quit working at this church campus (not really for that reason alone) When 8 months later I found out they had 3 rapes in a month (nothing reported in city papers/campus newspaper) I staked out that campus myself (after notifying head of campus security/former boss) as my GF was still student there.
I dressed in normal street cloths (maybe a little darker then normal) and hung out in dark/remote areas and was NEVER hassled by campus security (few knew me as most new) they never saw me/nobody reported this guy sitting against tree in dark for hrs.
Well the PD caught the guy 2 blocks away from campus when gal fought back and that made big story in paper but nothing about his first rapes. (those gals went home)
I only carried one night. Two gents, one with hunting knive did a dance with me before MPD showed up and cuffed/stuffed them. They were drunk and supervisor refused to press charges/loose my job if I don't go along so I went home and got 357 mag for rest of night. (they had nice threats) of course they never showed (thank goodness)
Big thing is to keep things looking safe/quiet/calm. Never mind facts. Finally first place (church campus) did admit to some problems and offered rape whistle and mace for sale. I carried a lockback knive EVERY day.

[ProguninTN]

mike101: Wow, it seems like NJ wants to control its citizens and not give them a chance against the crooks. :what: All that stuff is legal here, and we welcome pro 2A people. ;)

red oak: No problem. I'm glad it was helpful. I had to write a research paper regarding that issue, so that is why I am familiar with the Clery act.

[Parvenu]

i hope they go out one night and get cocky and attack a guy and he whips out a 44. magnum.

show those ratty bastards to pick on students.

[marksman13]

I am amazed at the number of people who have suggested martial arts as an alternative to firearms. Ridiculous!!! Unless you are an absolute expert you are much more likely to get yourself killed than save your wallet and cell phone. I have no doubt that there are members, perhaps quite a few, who have mastered some form of martial art, but the simple truth is that the average martial arts student will learn just enough to get serverly hurt or killed. Even while carrying, it is much wiser to hand over your wallet and avoid further confrontation. Would I do that, maybe, maybe not, but I am definately not going to fight an armed robber with my bare hands over credit cards that can be cancelled and car covered by insurance. If it becomes clear that the perp has more on their minds than my valuables, then I will do whatever is necesary to terminate the threat.

I suggest a drop wallet. A wallet that appears to contain valuables, but does not. That said, I also carry my Taurus PT145 off campus, and a Spyderco folding knife on campus. Pepper spray or MACE can also be very effective, though it has to be used carefully. Will this protect an individual in every situation, hell no, but it is at least a plan. Many have said it before, and I am going to agree. The brain is the best possible weapon at your disposal. Use it!!!

[Zero_DgZ]

When my ex was in college she'd sit at home and whine about how unsafe it was around town, and how many college girls got raped/killed in past years (one famous case in her apartment complex) but whenever we went out anyplace she'd whine about "carrying that stupid gun around." (Me, not her.)

So, I chalked it up as a no-win scenario.

[Zoogster]

As in illegal just to own ? That is scary.
Here in CA most things besides certain knife types and firearms (the legal ones on the approved list of handguns or not on the bad list for longarms) are illegal for use as weapons.
Pipes, bats, sticks and virtualy any club for use as a weapon is a billy, a felony just to posses in the home. Throwing stars, any blade holding item that is not obviously a knife, nunchuka, blackjacks, sand clubs etc etc. Basicly since the only thing people fight for is utility knives and firearms those are the only things legal. Violation of possession of any other type of weapon is generaly a felony even in your own home. In fact blunt weapons are more severely penalized than bladed weapons in the home, go figure.
Basicly if guns or knives are outlawed in an area it is illegal to use something to defend yourself.
If they manage to ban guns there will not really be much left, as they have quietly banned most other things unopposed.

P.S. some medieval items are allowed, but the majority of oriental weaponry is a felony.

Basicly if you carry or even have in a dorm or college owned apartment something with the intent of using it for self defense you are guilt of a felony, whether it is a blunt object, a fixed blade of some sort, or a firearm, or even a normal item you plan to use as a weapon if needed. Only pepperspray and whistles and small folders..items that will do little against well armed criminals ignoring the law.

It is no wonder serial killers like Ted Bundy got almost all of thier victims from a college campus. It really is scary what type of society progressives imagine would work.

[SoCalShooter]

I would like to say for the most part that you are correct but please dont lump all of us college students in with the herd of sheeple.

[madmike]

"The use, possession, or carrying of weapons, including, but not limited to, pistols, rifles, shotguns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, pellet guns, dangerous knives, ammunition, any stun device, or other dangerous weapons is prohibited while on University-owned or controlled property, or at University-sponsored or supervised activities, except by police officers and other persons specifically authorized by the University"

I wouldn't ASK about things it doesn't mention. I'd play STUPID. "Oh, it doesn't SAY teargas is wrong..."

And I'm glad it specifies dangerous knives. None of my knives are dangerous, so no problem.:D

As far as campus POLICY, unless state law also backs it up (firearms, most places), tell them to go screw. You're not violating a law, you're violating a policy. Seeing as they want your $$$$$$$$$$$$, they won't actually do anything.

Two other points: martial arts are not "useless." They teach an attitude appropriate to a fight, and they make a "helpless" victim a challenge. This does serve to reduce threats and damage taken. My nine year old can put a grown man on the ground if he grabs her. Then she can run and scream. Those seconds can mean the difference between life and death.

If you believe only a gun can defend you, you have the WRONG attitude about defense and are probably better off not bothering.

My 1911 is better than my .380 is better than my snub Smith is better than my 26" baton is better than my tanto is better than my kubotan is better than my boots is better than my fists...but I'll use what I have, because they're ALL better than nothing.

It's a pity muggers don't target college adminstraitors in their BMWs...

[marksman13]

Madmike, If you feel like any martial art gives you an advantage over an armed assailent, more power to you. I didn't say a gun was my only means of self defense, just that it was a much better choice than my own two hands. I have seen too many, supposed martial arts experts get their butts handed to them in a street fight. I'm not saying this applies to you at all. I am of the belief that if an attacker wants money and he has a gun and you don't, your best (safest) course of action is to give up the cash. I never said that hand to hand skills were useless, just that they are not the best choice. And I think I think my post made it very clear that I am perfectly willing to use whatever force is available to protect the lives of myself and my family. If I didn't then let me make it clear here. I WILL USE WHATEVER FORCE AVAILABLE, TO INCLUDE MY HANDS, FEET, TEETH, FINGERNAILS, AND ANY SOLID OBJECT I CAN GET MY HANDS ON, TO PROTECT THE LIVES OF MYSELF AND MY FAMILY. I'm just not going to risk getting myself or a friend shot over some easily replaceable objects. Whew, didn't want to be classified as a sheep.:D

[Zoogster]

My 1911 is better than my .380 is better than my snub Smith is better than my 26" baton is better than my tanto is better than my kubotan is better than my boots is better than my fists...
1911 is illegal on campus. .380 is illegal on campus. Smith is illegal on campus. In CA your 26" baton is called a "billy" a felony to own or posses within the state. In CA your tanto is called a "billy" and is a felony to own or posses within the state. Your kubotan is a "billy" and is a felony in CA to own or posses.
Out of everything you listed only your fists and boots would not be a felony according to state law on a CA college campus.

[madmike]

We didn't specify "Armed," just "opponent."

Against a knife, barehanded I have good odds--I can use a coat, belt, gloves, etc, especially this time of year, and it's probable a street punk does NOT know how to use a knife.

Against a gun...well, the odds are worse. It depends on the circumstances.

And keep in mind most "martial arts experts" have studied sport-type TKD or the equivalent, not something for use in a brawl. Some "black belts" don't ever actually spar in any fashion.

The biggest thing I got out of kung fu was learning to get hit, HARD, and not be deterred. You take the hit, move in and incapacitate the opponent, then withdraw.

[marksman13]

Point taken Madmike, I reread. Thought the OP had something in it about an assailant with a firearm. I agree, against a knife, odds are much better than against a gun. Again, never said martial arts were bad, just hate the listening to the people who think that a black belt makes them immortal.:D

[luzyfuerza]

The university of utah has been in a pitched legal battle with the state legislature over the possession of firearms on campus over the last several years. University administrators have tried to establish policies that ban firearms, but the state legislature has enacted laws which clearly preempt ALL policies by any other state or local entity to ban firearms (including concealed firearms carried by DHL holders) on state property. The legislature's actions have been unheld in state court. Now, the university is attempting to pursue legal action through the federal courts.

As a result, Utah CHL permit holders can carry in any public school in the state, including all of the various public universities here.

There is at least one place in these 50 states where firearm sanity still rules. :cool:

CHL holders in other states can point to this example, and the safer lifestyle that we enjoy as a result, in your efforts to pass similar laws in your states.

[fantacmet]

As a college student with a CHL, thank the Lord Oregon forbids schools from making such rules. Although many do, nobody has ever been successfully convicted due to state Pre-Emption laws. The state specifically says that firearms are forbidden from all public and private schools, with excepton to police officers AND chl holders.

Rev. Michael

In regards to Luzy, as can be seen Oregon has similar laws, but it is the state which is suing the cities and universities. I think tghe Universities will have VERY little influence with the federal courts as federal law states that firearms n schools are a nono with the obvious and expected exceptions, and also that CHL holders are excepted as well. Same goes with airports OUTSIDE of secured checkpoints.

[Caimlas]

There's a famous quote which I can't quite recall right now. It goes something like,

"It is a citizen's duty to both obey just laws, and disobey the ones that are not."

It's apropos, I think. (Anyone know who said it?)

I make it a general policy to carry everywhere I go when possible without direct harassment by 'the authorities' (such as in an airport :P).

My safety is just as important when I've got nothing to protect myself as when I do. I'm often on a college campus until late hours tutoring or taking an evening class - 8, 9, or sometimes 10pm. I'm not sure how our state law is worded in this regard, but it's a private college.

[mike101]

I forgot to mention blackjacks and throwing stars. We can't have those either. It looks like Cal. does have one advantage. You can have pepper spray. We have to drive to Philly to get it, but it's still illegal.

The only legal carry weapon in NJ is a firearm, but try to get a carry permit. You have may issue states, and shall issue states. This is the "don't hold your breath" state.

It can also be very difficult to get a handgun permit just to own in NJ. The final decision as to whether or not you get one, is up to the police chief in your town. If he likes his citizens unarmed, he turns down your permit citing "insufficient reason to issue" as the reason.

As soon as it is in the financial cards, I am soooo out of here. Pennsylvania is only 15 minutes away.

Oh, I also forgot to mention something else re: that multiple rapist on the Penn campus that I spoke of earlier. His weapon of choice was a screwdriver, if you can believe that.

[Manedwolf]

As far as campus POLICY, unless state law also backs it up (firearms, most places), tell them to go screw. You're not violating a law, you're violating a policy. Seeing as they want your $$$$$$$$$$$$, they won't actually do anything.

Nope. You'd just be expelled and NOT given back your tuition for the semester. And then, unable to get admission elsewhere, you'd be screwed for life and limited in your career options.

[madmike]

ManedWolf: They say so, but have they done so? After all, you're a cash cow for up to 12 semesters.

Fantacmet: is the text of the federal law available? If it says that, we can use it here in Indiana.

[1911ShooterTJ]

I agree this is very sad. I'm an undergrad student at the University of Pittsburgh, and this group of guys has been robbing kids at gunpoint, and I know of at least one case in which the student was forced to an ATM machine and made to withdrawl a significant ammount of money from their account.

The issue is that most college students are oblivious to their surroundings, often talking on their cell phone or engrossed in their iPod.

Needless to say there are rules about guns on campus but... they aren't illegal so these guys are bound to run into someone carrying one day.

[EricTheBarbarian]

It is illegal to protect yourself on a college campus. They would show no mercy around here if you got caught carrying. Kicked out of school, a felony concealed weapon charge(in ohio anyway), and you can bet you just lost your gun. Then theyd try to pass it off as they got a dangerous criminal off the streets. Theres help phones on my campus so you dont need to protect yourself. They give freshman girls whistles to blow when being raped. I've also noticed they try to keep armed robbery and rapes around campus very quiet because if people find out that it is dangerous around here they would loose $$$. They dont bring up this stuff at freshman orientation because theyre a business trying to make money. Being a college campus in the middle of the inner city doesn't help much either. Im only a stone throw away from Over-The-Rhine, the worst part of the city.

[madmike]

Eric: yes, but in anywhere except Shicago and similar third world hell-holes, after the fact of defending yourself, they are generally reluctant to press charges, for the simple fact that most judges and juries will bless self-defense after the fact, your lawyer citing English Common Law precedent back to the Conquest.

And there are weapons that are not a felony, that, unless specifically named in the campus book, they wouldn't even win a case on.

Obviously, it's a sucky situation to cough up legal fees to beg for a right you inately should have, but needs must when the Devil drives.

[Wes Janson]

I hate the situation that I'm in.

One of the things I like to do is to take late-night walks to sort my thoughts out, and my campus happens to be situated downtown in a major metropolitan center. Being mugged by a single person doesn't concern me so much as being attacked by multiple assailants looking to beat me up. Ideally, I wish I could carry a 1911, but living on campus and being below the minimum age for a CCP prevents me from doing so. I'm still uncertain as to precisely what state, federal, and school laws say about folding knives, and I'm still trying to find a quality one that "works" for me. Tasers, and mace are both verboten per the state.

At this point, the only thing I carry that could be remotely effective in self defence is this:
http://www.mountsplus.com/images-product/SUR-E2D-BK-x2.JPG
which Surefire gave me for free last week. I consider it to be a really last resort tool, if even that.

Right now my primary strategy is to continually be alert about my surroundings, and to try to maintain at least 10-20+ yards from anyone else while walking. If anyone comes closer, the plan is to run like hell. Pathetic as it may be, it's the only real choice I have right now.

[madmike]

Invest in a bigger, brighter light. I just got a couple of Streamlights very moderately. You can stun someone with the flash and beat them with the metal, and those small, crenellated ones are great for jabbing or use on nerve points like a kubotan. (Yes, it's "kubotan" not "kubaton." They're named after the designer, a Mr Kubota.)

I recall when my wife was closing manager at the Arby's on UofI campus. She was driving out of the alley at 0300 one night when a dozen guys started beating and rocking the car. One of them opened the door, looked confused, and she closed it and drove through them.

Seems they were looking for someone else in the same type of car, but it was a scary event. While it was IL, it was not a campus building, which meant she could and did start keeping a knife and teargas in the console.

Yes, we're much safer without guns.:fire:

[EricTheBarbarian]

You know if i was depending on a flashlight for self defense Id use my big mag lite. you could really give someone a beating with one of those.

[madmike]

Big lights are better beating sticks, if you can carry one. You can't leave it unattended where it will be stolen, and my kids are too small.

But a 120-200 lumen Streamlight will stun someone at night, and you can still use it to jab or beat them.

[tanksoldier]

Go to college in Colorado:

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. a permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. a local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.
(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. the peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. page 18-senate bill 03-024

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:
(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked.
(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty.
(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:
(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

I know there's an AG opinion that the University of Colorado can enfore their gun ban regardless... but the AG doesn't make law, and there's no court cases either way. Regardless, there's always UNC, which is public but isn't part of the CU system.

[Colt_Management]

I've never taught a large junior-level lecture class at a huge public university while carrying concealed most days. A liberal arts class, too, about ancient politics, complete with a packed house of (primarily) flaming liberal students. I know nothing about that.

Such things just don't happen in gun-free zones. Written policy always dictates reality, doesn't it?

It does like laws make children safe.

;)

[hankdatank1362]

I don't consider myself an easy target.

But then again, I live off campus.