[40jjb]

In my opinion and have had meny pistols, I think the 1911 45acp is over rated, Now in days there is so many poly pistols that perform much better and are much more acurate out of the box, much more rust risistant than all steel, a great example is the GLOCK very low maintanace. With the 1911 has a nostalgia since it was used in wars and our fellow military man came with war stories using this pistol SO THE OLD HAS survive......!!!!! Any body out there would like to coment on this?????????:what: Yes I am taking a swing at COLTS 1911 and clones!!!!!:uhoh: :scrutiny: :cuss:

[Soulrider]

I have 2 1911's and 3 glocks, I won't say that the 1911 is the holy grail of hand guns but they must have done something right as this design has been around for 100 years, wonder if the same will be true for glocks.

[jame]

I've owned the Glocks and Sigs, and also currently enjoy my Makarov quite a bit, but owning a 1911 is the first time I can say I really, really got to know my weapon on a very deep level. Nothing wrong with the "wonder guns", but the 1911 is like a partner. If I do my share, it will do its share.

The best comparison I ever heard was that owning a 1911 vs. a Glock is like owning a Harley vs. a Honda. One is a no brainer get on and ride. The other is a passionate sense of ownership.

[MrDig]

Sorry you drank the Glock Kool-Aid.
1, The 1911/A1 is the first blow back operated design that all others are modeled after.
2, The only better design by JMB was the Hi-Power
3, The longest uninterupted commision of a US Military firearm.
4, Any monkey can become an armorer for this particular design, Tinkering will not void a warrenty.
5, From a CCW perspective they are slim and fit under Lots of clothing.
I could continue but I won't. For me it is a pleasure to think that I can own a piece of history, Think of it from that perspective.... One of Two designs that all others basicly immitate. Three maybe Four generations of Soldiers depended on the 1911/A1. A 1911/A1 and a Hi-Power are two guns that everyone should at least shoot If not own.

[crashm1]

I've owned a fair number of handguns of various types, calibers and brands and the only one I keep coming back to is the 1911. For me the 1911 shoots better and carries easier than anything else I've had. I've owned 6 or 7 of them over the years and only one has been unreliable and it's a commander slide on a gov frame which I now know doesn't work (one of these days I'm going to turn it into two guns and hunt down the guy who sold it to me).
I can't seem to get comfy with a DA/SA trigger, DAO seems like an answer to a question I forgot to ask and aesthetically polymer pistols make me gag. I am aware they are lighter and all that but they are just ugly, ugly, ugly. That leaves me with SA pistols and revolvers as options. I like revolvers but like the edge in reloading speed a pistol gives, plus I find pistols easier to conceal and slightly more comfy to carry. Now we're down to SA pistols and I shoot a 1911 better than a High Power or CZ so it makes more sense for me to own lots and lots of 1911s. Anyone who has a 1911 they dislike can send it to me and I will dispose of it properly for you.:)

[crewchief]

As soulrider said above I doubt that you will see many poly handguns stand the test of time like a 1911.

[30-06 lover]

I like having the best of both worlds...The H&K USP.

[40jjb]

I have a Colt 1911A1, Kimber, Springf, Balety de molina, Norinco, RIA, in full size and others in Com size, Officer Models, I also have Glocks, XD, Kel tec, Cheep ones like Bryco, Davis, Much more, Having all these desiner guns seeing what they do and function, The 1911 is the one they have had to twig the most to get were it is now, witch in my mind it tells me the begining product was not that eficient and reliable!!!!!!!!!!! Example you take my basic Colt 1911 and you take my kimber, major work was done to the kimber to make the 1911 a partner, Partner.!!!!!:scrutiny: a Glock, Sig and other great ones out there especialy the GLOCK has been with minimal changes.......:barf: :fire: againe yes our men served in the military with this peace of work, Cuper said ones This is the greatest and best out there!!! Then he said But now they are making good models to.!!! refering to other makers, I think this is an over statement!!!!!!::scrutiny:

[Shootcraps]

It is an excellent platform.

Slim.
Easy to use.
Easy to conceal.
Excellent firepower.
Easy to maintain.
Brilliant design.

To say any one gun is the "best" is silly. It stands on its own merits.

[XavierBreath]

Any body out there would like to coment on this????????? Yes I am taking a swing at COLTS 1911 and clones!!!!! Yep. I'll comment.

The 1911 vs Glock debate has been done many times over. It's as old as .45ACP vs 9mm. Time to let it go.

[XLMiguel]

I own or have owned Kimber & Colt 1911's (9mm & .45), SIGs (225, 226, 228, 232, 239), H&K USP (9mm & .45), Beretta (92, 85, 3032) Walter (PPK/S, P-22, P5C), CZ PCR, and Kahr P-9. I shoot all of them decently, I am comfortable with SA, DA/SA and DAO operating systems, but the more I shoot, the better I llike the 1911 for all of the reasons cited in the posts above. It just works for me. The 1911 has attained a well-deserved cult status for very good reasons, but like any other gun, it isn't for everyone, go with what works for you.

No dis on Glocks (I own other 'plastic' guns), I think they're well made, durable, and reliable. I shoot 'em OK, I just have never warmed up to the Glock 'safe-action trigger'.

[HSMITH]

Just another guy that has never owned a good 1911 or someone that can't objectively evaluate guns from the sounds of it.

I own and shoot both 1911's and poly pistols like the Glock. I strongly appreciate both, and both have positive and negative points. As an objective person I can see both the positives and negatives in each design.

[doubleg]

Wouldn;t trust my life with anything else.

[steelhead]

The only thing overblown about 1911's are the critics. Generally speaking, they are:

1. <30 years old
2. Have limited experience with firearms in both ownership and use
3. Cut their teeth on semi-auto polymer and have never even fired a revolver

That isn't to say that many, who are experienced, haven't decided that the 1911 isn't for them. However, they generally don't go around slamming the 1911 because they still recognize the merits of the design and know that it is still an excellent choice.

BTW - There is also nothing wrong with a Glock or even a Hi-Point as long as it is reliable and you can shoot well with it.

[ugaarguy]

I think the 1911 45acp is over rated, Now in days there is so many poly pistols that perform much better and are much more acurate out of the box, much more rust risistant than all steel,
Materials and Performance are two entirely different things.


Materials - The poly pistols still have steel slides, either carbon or stainless. If your metal slide rusts out, then your rustless poly frame is useless until the slide gets replaced. Further, any corrosion resistant treatment that can be done to the steel slide of a poly pistol can be done to the steel of a 1911. Yes you can get titanium slides for some poly pistols, but you can also get Ti slides & frames, Al frames & stainless slides, and even a factory scandium frame (from S&W) on 1911s. You can also get poly frame 1911s from Kimber, Wilson, & STI. Ohh, and old fashioned parkerizing still works just fine on carbon steel for beating rust and holding up to hard use.

Performance - 1911s (to include poly frames like STI & SVI) are still dominant in competition shooting. 1911s are still the choice of some of the top professional fighters - FBI HRT, US Marine Expeditionary Units as examples. 1911s have also proven their durability and reliability thru their near 100 year history in US military (the first 70 years as standard issue, the balance in use by specialized units), and civillian use.

There's a reason 1911s have endured, and it isn't by being over rated.

[Steve C]

That isn't to say that many, who are experienced, haven't decided that the 1911 isn't for them. However, they generally don't go around slamming the 1911 because they still recognize the merits of the design and know that it is still an excellent choice.

I agree with steelhead. I own 1911's an other guns. Its just one of the tools in the box that's great for some uses and not so great for others.

[Warbow]

The 1911 is the one they have had to twig the most to get were it is now, witch in my mind it tells me the begining product was not that eficient and reliable!!!!!!!!!!!

That's because they aren't built like they once were.

If you get a true 1911A1 (Remington Rand, Ithaca, etc.) that hasn't been touched by some bored garage gunsmith "improving" it, it will run just as well as any of the more recent designs.

That's not to say that you can't find a 1911 from a modern manufacturer that won't run well straight from the box, just that you have to do your research to find it.

So I definitely don't think the 1911 is overrated. The market has just been flooded with variants (and lousy manufacturing) that stray from the tried and true design configuration that served well for decades.

[Chucksredvette]

It seems like most of the people that want to slam the 1911 vs the wonder pistols use the same tactics(emotion) as the antis use against us all. You have to wonder why someone would come in here and intentionally try to start a fight.

[10-Ring]

Nothing finer than a properly tuned 1911. If it's gotta be explained, you'll never get it :neener:

[daysleeprx]

Why are these polls even allowed to stay open... :rolleyes:

[two tone]

sure it's an overated firearm. the only think it has going for it is that it makes a good range gun, and probably a decent carry gun because of the slimness. i am speaking of full size versions btw. i know the commander size is a very good carry weapon chambered in 45acp of course.

now adays i think think the 1911 is deerly loved by the ccw folks. almost like it has been retired by the men in uniform and moved on to a more cozzy spot for us civilians.

[redneckdan]

cause we have nothin better to do. If I could only own one handgun, I'd have to go with my SA mil-spec, only reason is because my 6" k frame isn't really a candidate for CPL use.

[MICHAEL T]

"If you are aware, ready to do battle if it insists on coming to you and proficient with the gun you carry, even if its design dates from the previous turn of the century, you probably won't be seriously handicapped because you don't have the gun on the cover of this month's gun magazine."
Stephen Wenger


I do my pistol fighting with a 1911 given a choice. I don't like and will never own that plastic fantistic, opps I shot my leg Block :barf:

[kbheiner7]

Nothing finer than a properly tuned 1911. If it's gotta be explained, you'll never get it :neener:

Agreed. Makes me wonder if you'd have to tell some guys that Grace Kelly was pretty.

[mljdeckard]

Mdig said what I was thinking.

Get a book on detail-stripping a 1911. Anyone who can find their butt with two hands or less can do this. Try the same thing with a Glock. You will make many mistakes.

The 1911 is 100 years old. Do you think that 100 years from now, Glocks will be MORE popular than they are now?

If there are so many pistols so vastly superior, someone forgot to tell Fleet Marine Recon.

I have carried S&W, Glock, Beretta, Ruger, and Sig. It always came back to what I know works for me, not what the industry is telling me I should switch to.

A glock trigger will always be gooey.

[Fun2Shoot]

If the Colt 1911 45acp is over rated, I guess that you could also say that the Stars and Stripes, apple pie and Mom are over rated too. :eek:

The JMB designed Colt M1911 in 45acp is the Mother of all semi-auto 'hand' Guns.

There are many excellent handguns in this world, I've owned a bunch, but they all are in the 1911's very long shadow.

In 100 years, maybe no one will remember the XD or Glock, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that the M1911 will still be on the lips of those who know handguns.

[shaggycat]

Wow! I disagree as strongly as one possibly could.

The 1911 has the most superb trigger out there. Ergonomically, there is no comparison for me between the 1911 and any other pistol. Next, the ability to carry cocked and locked is something I truly like. AND a well built 1911 will be as reliable as any gun could be.

BUT, the main reason I like it so much is because I shoot it better than I shoot other guns. Heck, I can shoot just as well with a 1911 as I can with a 22. Now, I don't claim to be an excellant shot or anything, far from it. Even more reason for me to shoot the gun I shoot best. If I find something else that shoots better in my hand, I will change my opinion.

By the way, if the 1911 is so overrated, why do you think so many high level IDPA shooters use 1911-based guns?

[SoCalShooter]

I have fired a lot of pistols also in my time and I have a plastic gun, but you know what I prefer to shoot my kimber 1911 much more often than my other guns.

[two tone]

btw the title of this thread is "1911 overated?" but the poll asks "is the 1911 really that great". i agreed that is is overated but the poll put me down for agreeing the 1911 is great..

[hceptj]

my take on this would be how many glock's, etc. are still around or being made/copied in 100 years...:)

[tbtrout]

Most people who have a problem limp wristing do not like 1911's. It is too heavy, too powerful and I can not shoot it accurately, it keeps stovepiping are the common whines. A 1911 is not something you have to like, but you do have to love' em. The original design ,not tweaked as issued, served me well in the Corps. And as stated above, special Marine Units canned the Berreta and went back to Old Faithfull. Steel not a plastic wonder gun. That should say alot for its relevance.

Now haven't we got anything better to do than revive the same old debate?
Guess not that is why I am here:D

[KINGMAX]

The 1911 is that classic forty-five look. Nothing like it anywhere, got to love it.

You have to admit, it is one mean man-stopper!!!!!!

[bumm]

I have to come down on the side of the 1911. Durable, reliable, accurate, and good looking to boot. I like my guns to last a LONG time. I like to imagine my grandchildren, (if I ever have any,) shooting my guns. If "maintainace free" is important to you, a plastic gun may be a better choice, but I doubt if any polymer guns will outlast a well cared for 1911.
Marty

[1911austin]

In my personal experience, 1911s are as reliable as any other platform and I shoot them better that anything else I have tried. I have owned handguns from every major manufacturer and have found nothing that will replace the 1911 as my go-to gun. Other people may choose a different design that fits them better. Arguing over which is better is retarded. Just get whatever is best for you and stop trolling.

[Mal H]

btw the title of this thread is "1911 overated?" but the poll asks "is the 1911 really that great". i agreed that is is overated but the poll put me down for agreeing the 1911 is great..I strongly agree somewhat. ;)

True, the poll is poorly worded. I'm not sure how to answer a poll about a question. I strongly agree that "Is the 1911 really that great?" is indeed a question.

The poll needs a statement that we can agree with or disagree with, not a question.

[FourTeeFive]

True, the poll is poorly worded.

The whole original post was poorly worded.

[Dobe]

You wouldn't keep seeing threads like this, if the 1911A1 were truely over rated.

Dobe

The 1911 - 100 years and going strong.

[ajax]

I have to agree that the poll is poorly written. I voted that I disagree on accident.

[BigRed]

Yep. I'll comment.

The 1911 vs Glock debate has been done many times over. It's as old as .45ACP vs 9mm. Time to let it go.

Well, Looks like its time to close the forums.:scrutiny:

[the pistolero]

A good 1911 is a thing of unparalleled beauty, whether it's a no-frills milspec or tricked-out racegun. Overrated? Not a chance. I know it has its share of detractors, but I tend to agree with those who say the modern 1911s' problems are due to the manufacturers getting away from the original design. As far as someone mentioning they owned something like a Bryco, Davis or some other potmetal poodle-popper and basically saying it needed less tuning or tweaking to run right than a 1911, all I can do is just...:barf: I would think as opposed to "tuning" or "tweaking" a Bryco, you'd be better served to melt it down and make a fork or a butter knife out of it. Just my humble opinion, of course, but the 1911 bashing is long past tiresome.

[Ala Dan]

The 1911 is the best thing since sliced bread and peanut butter~!

[LeonCarr]

The main reason I shoot the Glock is because of the overrated 1911. The 1911 is overated because:

1. After thousands of dollars worth of quality gunsmithing work by American Handgunner Club 100 gunsmiths, with every part of the gun tuned or adjusted for maximum reliability, 1911s, in my experience, will still jam, FTF or FTE, never in practice and always during a match . You can take a Glock out of the box, check the bore for grease or obstructions, and take it out and shoot it, and it will run.

2. Glocks have no grip screw bushings or grip screws to come loose. Most new 1911s, in my experience, will have at least one grip screw bushing come loose when you take the grips off the first time, and it is usually attached to the grip screw itself, and it screws out of the frame.

3. A stock Glock does not hurt your hand and draw blood when you shoot it, unlike a 1911A1 with the stock hammer and the stock grip safety (YMMV, but it does it to me).

4. A stock Glock does not have to have aftermarket expensive magazines to function properly (ie Wilson's). IME the magazine that comes with most 1911s was made by the lowest bidder with soft metal bodies and feed lips. You do not have to "tune" the magazines or buy aftermarket magazines for a Glock.

5. The number one PITA with a 1911, the extractor. Most 1911s out of the box will have to have their extractor replaced with a better quality unit to maintain extractor tension. The Glock extractor is fine out of the box.

6. Glocks do not have plunger tubes that will come off of the frame. I once had a Series One Kimber, and during shooting the plunger tube came off. A gunsmith charged me 50 DOLLARS to replace that plunger tube (at that time about a six dollar part that took two minutes to install). That is the main incident that attracted me to the Glock. No plunger tube.

YMMV, but these are the main things that make the 1911 overrated. Too much money for not enough gun.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[BrennanKG]

Cuper said ones This is the greatest and best out there!!! Then he said But now they are making good models to.!!! refering to other makers, I think this is an over statement!!!!!!:

Umm...hmm...OK. :scrutiny:

By "Cuper" can I/we assume you mean Col. Cooper? (RIP sir!)

Look, one can make all sorts of arguments, sensible and, well...otherwise, against the 1911 and in favor of other handguns. That's really OK. I'm not how "over-rated" really applies though. The 1911, like most firearms, has its fans and its detractors.

Personally, I love the 1911. It fits my hand well, has amazing ergonomics even for this lefty, it has an amazing trigger, and best of all, it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.


B.

[cookekdjr]

I don't own a 1911, but the first time I shot one I shot it better than almost any handgun I'd ever touched. A Mil-spec 1911 is a winning combination of accuracy, reliability, and concealability, and is a great manstopper. It is the measure by which all other semi-auto handguns are judged.
You might prefer other handguns for different reasons. But I don't know of any handgun that is better.

[BrennanKG]

A personal counterpoint to my experience with 1911s would be my experience with my Glocks. While they too went bang every time I pulled the trigger, they never fit my hand well, had poor ergonomics in their controls, and the triggers were, IMO, horrific.


But as always, YMMV.
My solution was to stick to the handguns I liked.


Cheers,
B.

[wooderson]

The Internet is an amazing place. Where else could someone vent his feelings about an inaminate object so forcefully?

I like (ain't saying love) 1911s, and generally wouldn't own a Glock unless it was free. But past that, I don't understand how anyone can care.

[repo]

It's not the most utilitarian pistol, it's more like a peice of art. I don't think of art so much as paintings but objects that just look right. A certain car or truck, a horse, a beautiful woman, a well crafted knife or almost anything. It's just a great design.

I think maybe it has "divine proportion" that apeal to me on a subconcious level or something. Looking down at the top of the slide, at the elegant simplicity, the curves and the slenderness, it just looks right. Then when you hold it, its so heavy and cold, it feels like a real machine. I always thought of the 1911 as the American samurai sword.

[gc70]

If you love Glocks, power to you.
If you love 1911s, power to you.
Whatever gun you love, power to you.

But anyone who has nothing better to do than criticize someone else's choice of guns is not worth my time to try to enlighten.

[justatexasboy]

I have never traded or sold one of my 45s. I just keep adding. And they all seem to have a special meaning to me.

I have traded and sold off every plastic gun I have ever owned after the new and the sales pitch wore off. They were just guns. Nothing special about any of them.

One thing the plastic gunners should consider is that the plastic guns are cheaper to manufacture. Hence the industry is really trying to push the whole plastic gun thing.


But Im with gc70 on this. More power to you regardless of what type of gun you like.

[Black Majik]

You guys notice that the only people that are replying are the ones disagreeing that the 1911s are overated and giving their reasons. The ones that agree the 1911 platform is overrated are hiding behind the polls without fessing up who feels this way... or why...


Where's the poll option for "STRONGLY DISAGREE?"

...biased poll....

[BB93YJ]

Repo said:

"It's not the most utilitarian pistol, it's more like a peice of art. I don't think of art so much as paintings but objects that just look right. A certain car or truck, a horse, a beautiful woman, a well crafted knife or almost anything. It's just a great design.

I think maybe it has "divine proportion" that apeal to me on a subconcious level or something. Looking down at the top of the slide, at the elegant simplicity, the curves and the slenderness, it just looks right. Then when you hold it, its so heavy and cold, it feels like a real machine. I always thought of the 1911 as the American samurai sword "

I like your whole statement, but the ""The American Samuri Sword" part was just darn near poetic.

Another thought too, how many companies are imitating a particular design, the way John Moses Brownings 1911's are imitated? What's that old saying, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Hehehehe

[BrennanKG]

"Can't our gun all just get along?"
;)

My problem with 1911s? They're like candy; I can't seem to get enough.
:)
The vast majority of handguns on my long term wish list seem to be 1911s:
-Colt DE (blued)
-SA Milspec
-EB Special Forces
-DW Razorback
-GI Model 1
-SA EMP
-Detonics 9-11-01

The list goes on, but I don't want to bore anyone.
:)


B.

[1911 guy]

And apparently so is requiring some knowledge of the functioning and operation of a firearm to properly use one. In my not so humble opinion the Glock is a handgun marketed to the lowest common denominator and has gained popularity only because of it's use by guys in bullet proof vests kicking in doors. As soon as someone starts monkeying with the design, we'll have the same threads about them as we do about the 1911. "Why, oh why, won't my kitchen table special run like a swiss watch?" Because you fooled with it, that's why. Take for example the issue of adding lights to Glocks. Some models will not cycle without modification to the recoil spring. Keep playing with it, and we'll have "Is the Glock over-rated?" The answer, by the way, is yes.

[foob]

Personally I think the magazine was designed horribly. Just consider how many 1911 mag manufacturers there are, and that don't work. Also high cap mags don't work well with the 1911. Also the mag seats at a severe angle in the pistol, so much more feeding issues with the 1911 than other firearms. For some people to say this is the best design JMB could come up with is insulting to him.

[MrDig]

To all who think the 1911/A1 is overrated I have one question to ask....
How many models are now dicontinued and out of production?
Only the 1911/A1 is still in production 100 years after it's creation. By the gods if that is not a testament to the design, fit and function, What in all that is holy is? Even if Colt quit producing the most successful design they have, other manufaturers would still use the blueprints (well actually copies of them ) originaly created for the weapon.
Show me one other model, just one that has that kind of track record.
Ok that more than one question but still....

[1911 guy]

They've all got kool-aid in their ears.

[foob]

To all who think the 1911/A1 is overrated I have one question to ask....
How many models are now dicontinued and out of production?
Only the 1911/A1 is still in production 100 years after it's creation. By the gods if that is not a testament to the design, fit and function, What in all that is holy is? Even if Colt quit producing the most successful design they have, other manufaturers would still use the blueprints (well actually copies of them ) originaly created for the weapon.
Show me one other model, just one that has that kind of track record.
Ok that more than one question but still....

Manufacturers make them because they are popular. Popularity doesn't always equate to perfect, or best, or great design. Why they became popular is another question.

I would rather people explain what makes the design good, instead of using popularity and long lasting, and the military adopting it for a long time, as the reasons that make it great. Those reasons seem meaningless to me.

[foob]

Double post

[Kimber1911_06238]

Well they aren't perfect, but they do exactly what they were designed to do. They aren't meant to be super lightweight CCW's. They were meant to be a full size autoloader that is reliable and effective. The standard 7 round clip might be a little small by today's standards, but it's still one more round than a 6 gun ;)

[Hawk]

No vote.

Not sure where my polymer-framed 1911 falls in all this.
Ran like a top out of box, and continues to do so. Very accurate.

Admittedly, it cost somewhere in the vicinity of 3 glocks. Is it worth the same money that would buy 3 of Gaston's finest?

For those few of us afflicted with trigger related OCD, it's worth every nickel and a bag of chips besides.

[MrDig]

From an Engineering and design perspective they do exactly what they were designed to do. Manufacturers malfunctions do not count, If most of the Man's had better QC the malf discussed would be a non-issue.

Pick up a GI Issue .45...... stop just for a minute think, this is the same design your father carried in Viet-Nam, the same design you Grandfather carried in WWII or Korea,and the SAME DESIGN your Great Grandfather carried in WWI. Quite possibly Great Great Grandfather carried in the Phillipines.......
That Design Stopped a Drug Crazed Moro (?sp) Warrior in the Phillipines, Stopped Kieser Whilhelms troops in France, Then Back in the Phillipines and on the North African continent, in Sicily, Italy, France, Okinawa. Still Later in Korea, and still Later Viet-Nam.....It preformed and did exactly what it was designed to do.
The Minds eye picture of My Father for one, using that gun and an 03A3 on the Beach at Salerno to retake a howitzer that was over run by the Germans. (My Father Was In Fact there) My God the images this weapon creates just boggles my mind.
It has Earned the reputation that procedes it.

For those who want to question my dad having an 03A3, a direct quote from him was that "the Garands didn't get to our unit until much later in the Italian Campaign." in fact I have a picture of him at Monte Cassino with an 03A3. Furthermore, the 151st FA Bn (Dads unit) is credited with Saving the beach Head at Salerno "By resorting to Basic Infantry Tactics to regain artillery emplacements over run by the Enemy" The imagry I suggest is not a flight of Fancy. Quoting my Dad again, "Guys covered our butts with 03s and .45's while we realligned the guns"

Yeah I know we have HD TV's instead of radios and the internet instead of newspapers, Microwaves instead of woodstoves, Times have changed, but not the 1911/A1 as a basic sidearm. Sure Polymers are slick and modern but without the 1911/A1 the polymers would not exist.

[das028]

Way to unreliable for me to warm up to. I can appreciate its history and looks. IMO, its a fine looking pistol, but to unreliable to ride my hip. Besides as pistols have evolved throughout the years, there is way to many other more effective choices.


I think you can also say that alot of 1911 shooters tend to be from a older generation, who are too "set in their ways", to try anything different. I do think as guns evolve you will see less and less of them. They do have a place in firearm history, though.

I dont remember who actually said this quote, but I liked it.

"a 1911 is something you show you're freinds, a glock is something you show your enemies"

[Kimber1911_06238]

What do you mean by unreliable? what were the bad experiences you had?

Oh...and I'm 23 by the way. Have always loved 1911's.

[gc70]

I think you can also say that alot of 1911 shooters tend to be from a older generation, who are too "set in their ways", to try anything different.What a presumptuous thing to say.

I went through a lot of "modern" 9mm pistols and would not even pick up a 1911 for many years because it was too "old fashioned." Then I shot a 1911 about 20 years ago. Now, around half of my pistols are 1911s.

My son started shooting as a polymer fanatic. After buying three polymer guns, he tried one of my 1911s. Now he has his own 1911 and is in the process of trading one of his polymer guns for another 1911.

[Plink]

It depends on what you expect of it. If I had to say that anything is overrated, it would be the new techno guns. They don't really do anything any better than the older designs do.

Reliability? The 1911 way back in 1910 or so passed a testing regimen that would make most modern pistol blush. I don't remember the particulars, but it was something like 6,000 rounds without failure, while being rusted with acid, dropped in mud, etc. Actual field type tests. Unlike the "it can be dropped out of a helicopter, frozen in a lake for a year, etc., etc." hype. Any good gun will be reliable. The new techno guns have no advantage here.

Accuracy? Take a look at what's being used in competition and you'll see that the 1911 more than holds it's own. There are many accurate designs out there and they're all pretty well represented in competition. If the 1911 wasn't accurate, it wouldn't be used, yet it's one of the most popular.

Durability? Any well made gun is durable. Again, the 1911 is in good company with many other durable models that can run thousands upon thousands of rounds without an issue. I don't see how the techno guns have any advantage there either.

Rust proof? That's a function of finish. There are stainless steel 1911's and 1911's finished in all sorts of rust proof finishes, just like there are with all the other guns. No gun has an advantage here, as it depends on the finish.

Weight? Polymer guns are lighter. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your needs. Besides, there are polymer framed 1911's too. Personally, I like a heavy, stable gun for general shooting. For concealed carry where weight is an issue, alloy or polymer work great. I see no advantage or disadvantage here as it's a matter of personal choice.

Where I DO see an advantage in the 1911's is shape. For belt holster carry, shape isn't important. For concealled carry it is. A sad trend in the techno guns is wide, square shapes with corners rather than being rounded. Corners and edges print more than smoother, rounder designs. The back of the slide and bottom of the grip are especially notorious for this. There's no excuse for wide slides with corners on a carry gun. The 1911 is thin and flat, with a taper on the rear of the slide. They tend to print less than many other models.

In the end, it all comes down to marketing. Guns don't wear out and get replaced regularly like shoes, clothes, etc. Some gun manufacturers try to make you think the gun you have is useless so that you'll buy their new model. They do this by telling you "our gun can be dropped from helicopters, ran over by tractors, frozen in ice, and a bunch of other things that we don't need our guns to do. Can your gun do that?". They do this to try and make you dissatisfied with the other guns so you'll choose theirs. It's marketing hype and nothing more.

[Candiru]

It's really the person using the gun, not the gun itself. Arguments about the superior design are really pointless because even if you could prove one design is better according to some metric, it won't matter at all if someone just plain doesn't like that design or isn't comfortable with it.

1911s are made by many different manufacturers, and sometimes the execution suffers when modern manufacturing techniques are applied. It's not particularly fair to claim that the entire design is bad because certain manufacturers turn out the occasional stinker. That would be no more informed or fair than someone ranting about how all plastic pistols suck because he had a bad experience with an early Sigma.

Is the design overrated? It's hard for me to say objectively, because I love 1911s. The disagreement is based on a difference in perspectives: If you want to open a box, take out a pistol, shoot it, and clean it occasionally, 1911s give you nothing you can't get from a Glock, Sig, XD, or any of a dozen other modern handguns. If you want your handgun to be an extension of yourself and are willing to take the time and effort to understand it and become intimately familiar with the principles of its operation, then nothing short of a 1911 will suffice. Other guns may be superior in shootability, accuracy, ergonomics, and reliability, but no single model of gun is capable of beating a correctly set-up 1911 in all those categories at once.

[two tone]

Oh...and I'm 23 by the way. Have always loved 1911's

i felt obligated to state that i am 21. ever since i was in say 7th grade and had access to the internet i would get online afterschool and research 1911's. after seeings such movies as "Untouchables" and "L.A. Confidential" i felt that i needed a mil spec Springer or something similar you know. well surprise surprise my first pistol purchase was a glock. haha

[koja48]

Because they do the job. I suspect some of you may have never been placed "in harms way." If I'm mistaken, please forgive an aging warrior. Served me well then & I trust my SA will do likewise now. God Bless America . . .

"I'd rather hire an attorney than an undertaker." JWF, 2005 (when I armed my Daughter prior to a trip to Reno from WA State, in response to my Ex's "Do you think that was a good idea" (Trained her in handgun defense myself).

j.

[doubleg]

The glock is just a striker fired polymer safteyless 1911.:neener:

[Geno]

I would keep my Colt 1911, stainless steel, series 70 reproduction. I have Glocks, P3AT, Browning P35, Springfields, etc, etc, etc. Only one type pistol that I own has absolute "natural point"...my 1911s! I would not choose to sell my others and I do carry a Glock 19C. But it's pointing is poor compared to the 1911. A very close equal is my P35. If you don't like 1911s, don't buy them. It's your money.

Doc2005

[Trumpet]

No, they are not over rated. Stay in school and study your grammar. :banghead:

[dano6257]

I guess my opinion is just biased. I have several pistols and my SA 1911 is by far my favorite. Reliable, never jammed, accurate, etc... My biased is in the fact that I have never fired a Glock or similiar... I can't bring myself past the toy-like feel, and face it, FEEL is very important. I know alot of guys who love the poly-guns and do very well with them, but that has nothing to do with 1911's. It's the same as asking a gay man if he thinks women are over-rated...

[das028]

What a presumptuous thing to say.

I went through a lot of "modern" 9mm pistols and would not even pick up a 1911 for many years because it was too "old fashioned." Then I shot a 1911 about 20 years ago. Now, around half of my pistols are 1911s.

My son started shooting as a polymer fanatic. After buying three polymer guns, he tried one of my 1911s. Now he has his own 1911 and is in the process of trading one of his polymer guns for another 1911.


Didnt mean to ruffle any feathers, sorry. ,I am just saying that generally speaking alot of 1911 fanatics tend to be from a older generation. There diffently is exceptions, like your son.

[das028]

What do you mean by unreliable? what were the bad experiences you had?


I mean out of the box 100% reliablitiy. I have seen to many people spend $800 on a("whatever make) 1911 and having the thing choke on them. Even the higher end guns are so tight the get finicky about ammo. To me a relieble gun should be able to shoot whatever you feed it right out of the box all the time. Actually the mil-spec guns shoot better IMO, do to there looser tolerances.

[ajax]

Candiru that was very well said."To me a relieble gun should be able to shoot whatever you feed it right out of the box all the time"By the way das if that statement was true you would be able to shoot lead out of your G-19. Apparently the wonder gun can't pull that one off safely like my 1911.

[gc70]

Didnt mean to ruffle any feathers, sorry.You just made an inaccurate generalization, probably based on limited personal observations. No feathers ruffled.

[HSMITH]

I am a big fan of Glocks. If I had to pick something out of the rack at the gunshop and that would be my gun for all times I would probably take a G17. That said, I have a couple 1911 types I would put against a G17 in a reliablility test any day of the week and an accuracy test two times a day any day of the week. Limit the test to 2000 rounds of factory ammo between cleanings and I am absolutely positive we wouldn't find a winner until a TON of money was spent on ammo. I could say the same about the CZ-75 or 85, and a host of other guns. Getting back to the point of the thread, no the 1911 is not overrated, lots of people just haven't had a good one yet.

There is a good reason 10+ companies are making 1911's and nothing else even comes close. You have 3 or 4 making Hi-Power types, and then nothing even being made by more than 2 companies though the patents have run out on SOOO many of the currently hyped guns.

[Kentak]

How does one agree or disagree with a question? It's not clear that someone choosing "agree" on the poll thinks the 1911 is great, or not.

Anyway, asking that question is as meaningless as asking if someone agrees or disagrees with this statement: "The weather in Florida is great."

It's an OPINION. There is no objective way to prove any particular pistol is great, or better than any other. I've shot 1911s and Smiths, and Walthers, and Glocks, and Sigs and others. The only reason I'd buy a 1911 is to say I have an example of an iconic American pistol design in my collection. Other than that, I don't want anything to do with them. You feeling different about that doesn't make me wrong or you right or vice versa.

Get over it.

K

[das028]

Getting back to the point of the thread, no the 1911 is not overrated, lots of people just haven't had a good one yet.


So I guess I'm supposed to keep buying them until I find a good one, or take it to a smith and throw a extra $300 to get the thing running right. I dont think so buddy, thats not a reliable pistol in my mind

[MacEntyre]

I'm hoping that, in my lifetime, someone will design a firearm that is truly revolutionary, like the 1911.

[two tone]

I'm hoping that, in my lifetime, someone will design a firearm that is truly revolutionary, like the 1911.

hahaha, this is funny. Because handguns arent sub-machine guns, and sub-machine guns arent assult rifles. Perhaps it coult be said that JMB defined what the modern handgun should be. Though, something truely revolutionary would have to make a 1911, glock, or whatever there is already out there incapable of performing their intented role. Inmo that will never happen.

[Geno]

Those who know combat, who are most highly trained have selected a 1911 platform (recently Kimber). I doubt that a group of special forces professionals would take an overrated platform into combat . What do you think?

There is no such thing as the "perfect" pistol or revolver. Anything mechanical can and will fail, including break. As you try to decide what to buy, try as many pistols and revolvers as you have time and money to try (rent), then purchase what floats your boat.

I enjoy my pistol/revolver "mini-collection" which consists of some 1911s, Glocks, SA-XDs, P35, and a couple of revolvers. Which is best? My guess is that anyone who can give you an absolute answer is simply giving you an opinion (bias). I like them all, but that 1911 is hard to "beat". It is not an overrated platform.

I tested my Colt series 70 and my Glock 17 over the course of about two months about a year back. I fired my Colt Series 70 reproduction (stainless) over 3,000 rounds without cleaning, and adding oil every 100 to 150 rounds of ammunition. I completed this reliability/torture test without a failure of any form. My Glock 17 managed the same, at the same time. I finally cleaned both simply because they were starting to leave my hands grungy when I fired them.

So, based on these facts, which is superior? Which is overrated?

Doc2005

[40jjb]

To All that has responded, One I am 40 with a good amount of exp., I do like my 1911 and clones, I realy like my Glock, I am a person who body swet is strong, I have had rust problems with all my pistoles exeped with my glocks, i wear my pistols very close to me, Touches my skin no under shirts, Yes the 1911 is a great shooter and great history to it It has my greated rispect including the men and women who have served this great country, who are in the present serving I take my hat on to you in admiration No disrespect was intended just wanted to see the mind set out there after all it is a free country, thanks to them!!!!!!:) :) but a lot of maintanance goes in to mine to prevent rust, This is why its the one I chose only for Castle protection were is not expose to me and weather, The Glock is the choice for CCW since is a low maintance pistol for me in my form of cary and weather. They are both great GUNS, Thank you all for youre opinons and for venting in this thread, OH! and yes it was COOPER Sorry for the miss print. Thank you all>>>>>>>

[hnk45acp]

Overated?
Perhaps
There's no semi-auto pistol that has the cache that the 1911 has. It's up there with Mom, Baseball & apple pie.
1911s have great triggers and that's probably what people like about them.
However they are maintenence intensive and quality differs across the board.
To me they are like Harleys, an old design that can be customized to the hilt but will never be as fast as a Honda or Ducati sportbike and will never ride as a nice BMW tourer

[HSMITH]

das028, you might try buying a good one to start with. Just a suggestion.

[EricTheBarbarian]

I heard alot of talk saying that the 1911 rusts up?How does any gun rust up if you keep it clean dry and well oiled?The only time Ive had any of my guns get any rust on them was after a weekend of hunting in the rain and not being able to keep it dry or clean it right away. That surface rust easily brushed off. Could this be due to the person carring for the pistol or does the metal really rust that easy on some of them? Also, what is a good 1911 to get?

[ForeverArmed]

I'm not going to vote on this because I don't own a 1911 -- I've only shot one belonging to someone else. But I do own a Glock 21. I'd like to put in my two bits regarding the Glock, since some people are compare it a bit unfairly with the 1911.

A lot of people mistakenly believe that polymer = weak. Not so. There are even polymer inserts for ballistic vests that can stop rifle bullets. Ultra-high molecular weight polymers can be stronger than many kinds of steel, and that is certainly the case with the Glock frame. For all intents and purposes, it's indestructible.

Other characteristics of the Glock: It's impervious to rust, doesn't jam, is quite accurate, cleans easily (not that cleaning is necessary other than the barrel), has a barrel that will last forever, and has all metal parts coated with a finish that is just shy of diamond-hard.

Does a good 1911 have all of those advantages?

On the other hand, the 1911 isn't as likely to have a kaboom if you use reloads with weak brass or shoot too many all-lead bullets. It also has a much better trigger and can be tuned to outstanding accuracy.

If I had to have only one handgun to last me the rest of my life, there's no question it would be a Glock. But I can definitely see why people would take great pride in ownership of a 1911, especially a high-end one like a Les Baer. They're beautiful guns.

[big44]

I don't think they're overated as much as they are getting just too expensive. I can buy two or three nice guns for what one good 1911 costs.

[Geno]

Forever Armed:

You stated, "Other characteristics of the Glock: It's impervious to rust, doesn't jam, is quite accurate, cleans easily (not that cleaning is necessary other than the barrel), has a barrel that will last forever, and has all metal parts coated with a finish that is just shy of diamond-hard."

The only damage I noted as the result of my torture test, was that the left side of my Glock 17's slide rusted where the firearm came into contact with my skin. My STS Colt series 70 did not rust. The two were, as I noted previously, equally reliable. Glocks are tuff, but nothing is impervious. That's how I got where I did with my G17...I thought it was imperious.

[45auto]

I don't think the 1911 is "over rated" because I "read" as many bad things about them as good things. In fact, it may be "under rated" IMO...since that's what I shoot by choice and I think they shoot well.

The Glock may be "over rated" since I "read" they never break, malfunction, no cleaning, last a millon rounds and will survive a nuclear explosion. ;)

Now, which one do you think is over rated?

[das028]

das028, you might try buying a good one to start with. Just a suggestion.


Nope! No interest is buying a 1911

For what its worth, here are the 1911's I've had a chance to shoot that have malfunctioned one time or another

Kimber Custom II
Kimber Gold match II
Colt 1991 (orm) series 80
Colt 1991 (nrm) series 80
Colt 1911 (old GI model) prolly due to mag but still
Springer Loaded

[doubleg]

All guns malfunction, its just how frequintley. Ive seen glocks that couldnt go ten rounds with out one. Just because one gun of a certain make malfunctioned doesnt mean they all do.

[rchernandez]

Why don't you come over and shoot a Bullseye match with us...bring your Glock!:neener:

[Correia]

Is the 1911 that great?

Somebody diagram that sentence for me, because I have no idea if I agree or not. :rolleyes:

[doubleg]

Bring it ON glock boy:D . I bet my KIMBER will out shoot your glock. Thats right I said kimber, it even has a external extractor:what: .;)

[Sniper X]

Well I also must disagree. The 1911 is the best design ever for a battle pistol. Even better than the Hi Power because of the 9mm cartirdge in the HP. It is also "THE" choice for CQB, Special Forces, and pistol competitors worldwide and as such blows the fantastic plastic away in that respect. I owned 5 glocks and sold them all and now own nothing but 1911's and a bunch of revolvers. I'm not saying the Glock is not a great psitol, but is is not, and never will be in the class of a 1911. Oh, and BTW I have had 1911 since about 1975 and NEVER had an AD, or a malfunction due to the pistol, my only two malfunctions I have ever had with a 1911 were due to a faulty mag that I threw away at the range the minute it happened. And, it was a stock Colt Govt mag!

[das028]

Why don't you come over and shoot a Bullseye match with us...bring your Glock!


You got me there buddy!:)

1911's sure do have sweet triggers, there is no denying that;)

[das028]

Bring it ON glock boy . I bet my KIMBER will out shoot your glock. Thats right I said kimber, it even has a external extractor .

Who you calling boy:neener:


That depends though, whats your definition of out shoot?

[doubleg]

Just having some fun with you.:) Glocks and 1911's are both great pistols, just made to acomplish different things.

[das028]

Well I also must disagree. The 1911 is the best design ever for a battle pistol. Even better than the Hi Power because of the 9mm cartirdge in the HP. It is also "THE" choice for CQB, Special Forces, and pistol competitors worldwide and as such blows the fantastic plastic away in that respect. I owned 5 glocks and sold them all and now own nothing but 1911's and a bunch of revolvers. I'm not saying the Glock is not a great psitol, but is is not, and never will be in the class of a 1911. Oh, and BTW I have had 1911 since about 1975 and NEVER had an AD, or a malfunction due to the pistol, my only two malfunctions I have ever had with a 1911 were due to a faulty mag that I threw away at the range the minute it happened. And, it was a stock Colt Govt mag!


Yeah right, and alot of people say the M1 Garand is the best design ever for a battle rifle.:rolleyes:

[doubleg]

The Glock was designed as a everyday carry weapon, it was made to be simple and very easy to maintain.

The 1911 was designed for one reason, to get the other person DEAD before he could kill you.

[denfoote]

For some reason, I never got into 'ol slabsides.
Now, that said, I do own two of the critters!!
Maybe I'm to lazy, but I never took the time to learn the "swipe the safety" thing that you have to do to get the little monster to work when you withdraw it from it's resting place!! I'm told that it takes an ungodly number of presentations in order to get it down pat!! I think I'll just stick with my Ruger P97. It's the same size, carries the same number of rounds, and I don't have to fuss with that God awful safety!! The same holds true for my Glock 36!!!
Am I going to get rid of my 1911s?? Hell no!! One was a gift from my late mother!! Sentemental value alone prohibits me from hoofing it around!!
My other one is a kinda rare, no longer made, Israeli clone. Methinks I'll just keep it for a range pistol!!

Such are my views on JMB's legacy.

[paul45]

I know I don't have to read this thread (which, I didn't)......I know I can keep my comments to myself.....(which I won't).......But I must ask......how many times can this pathetically BORING question be raised?? God Almighty....can this thread be closed?

[..]

Just another guy that has never owned a good 1911 I don't have to find a good Glock, they come that way out of the box. ;)

You old timers crack me up. A couple things come to mind-

1911 - Pistol of the past, rusting in the future.

1911 - "King of feedway stoppages" Not verbatim, a quote from Ken Hackathorn in a recent issue of Surefire Tactics mag.

1911's are fun for the range and to show your friends, for serious work I'd rather have something that doesn't need to be "tuned" before I'd trust it.

[Sniper X]

You no longer have to TUNE a 1911 as they all save for Colts and the GI type Springers come that way. I have a bunch of 1911s and have NEVER had one of the stoppages spoken of by non 1911 guys. Shoot, it seems that the only guys saying 1911s are unreliable are those who don't own them. Or those who had a Mag problem and didn't know that that is 99% of whu the rep is there. I had 4 Glocks, sold them all and now only have 1911s and a bunch of revolvers. I liked the Glocks, but never felt I could rely on them like my "old rusty 1911's"

[two tone]

"King of feedway stoppages" Not verbatim, a quote from Ken Hackathorn in a recent issue of Surefire Tactics mag.

watch this guy operate one though and tell me it aint awesome.

[Caanis Lupus]

Cut my teeth on a K-38 S&W .38 special.

Shot a Norinco 1911 and did not care for it at the time(early 20s).

Ended up buying a 92FS in stainless...it was ok. Sold it.

Bought a RIA 1911 on impulse while doing a rifle transfer...done deal.

I love my 1911. I love the .45. I have a frame/slide to make an officer model also. My GF loved my 1911 so much I had to buy her one to leave mine alone. :cool:

My next pistol purchase will be either another 1911 or a XD 5" .45...maybe.

[Ohen Cepel]

It's seen as a flawless icon. Yet, many of them need "tinkering" just to get them to shoot out of the box. I find that unacceptable.

Also, the crazy high prices that people are buying them for just seems off the map!

Saw an article in SWAT magazine recently where a Vickers Tacitcal (price $2,875:eek: :eek: :eek: ) didn't function correctly due to a bad extractor.
For that amount of money I think the gun should run out of the box. Yet, it's seemed as OK if it's a 1911.

I have one, but no love for it.

[pistolman1974]

IMO the other quality guns do the job. They are effective, well made, accurate; everything you would want in a combat pistol, A "Blaster".

The 1911 is equivalent to the jedi's Light saber. It's lines are more elegant. It's owner can build it to his/her own specs and be intimately familiar with every part. After it's properly constructed its just as reliable and much more personal than what you buy at the local gun shop.

[up_onus]

poorly worded....

[mpmarty]

Why would anyone be content with a $900 .45 holding eight rounds when a $500 .45 with fourteen rounds is available? The SA XD45 is more accurate, reliable, lighter weight and easier to maintain. Now if SA would only come out with a three inch XD in 45 acp.

[das028]

Why would anyone be content with a $900 .45 holding eight rounds when a $500 .45 with fourteen rounds is available? The SA XD45 is more accurate, reliable, lighter weight and easier to maintain. Now if SA would only come out with a three inch XD in 45 acp.


I agree!

[das028]

know I don't have to read this thread (which, I didn't)......I know I can keep my comments to myself.....(which I won't).......But I must ask......how many times can this pathetically BORING question be raised?? God Almighty....can this thread be closed?


Why? We are having a good dicussion here, nobody is gettin out of line and we are not breaking any rules.

If the question is so pathetic and borning, why must you respond? If you dont like the thread, stay out of it. Its really that easy!:scrutiny:

[das028]

Shoot, it seems that the only guys saying 1911s are unreliable are those who don't own them. Or those who had a Mag problem and didn't know that that is 99% of whu the rep is there. I had 4 Glocks, sold them all and now only have 1911s and a bunch of revolvers. I liked the Glocks, but never felt I could rely on them like my "old rusty 1911's"

Your right I've never owned one, nor do I desire to. You're missing my point buddy, I've had alot of experience shooting 1911 and havent had any luck with them. Know why in the hell, would I want to through a grand down on a pistol (platform) that has constantly malfunctioned on me. That doesnt make to much sense, does it?

Oh yeah, to me a reliable pistol comes with a reliable mag. ;)

[never_summer]

how is an xd more accurate than a 1911?
and why would magazine capacity really matter, my sig is a single stack does that mean your xd is already better than it?

[mpmarty]

"how is an xd more accurate than a 1911?" Better lockup, better support for the Barrel / slide assy, striker fired = faster lock time, need I go on?
"and why would magazine capacity really matter, my sig is a single stack does that mean your xd is already better than it?" Yup, would no more limit my carry to old small capacity obsolete weapons than I would try to drive a horse and buggy on the interstate.

[Rem700]

Why do most gun mfgr themselves compare there latest and greatest to a 1911? Because they all ready know which is best

[das028]

Why do most gun mfgr themselves compare there latest and greatest to a 1911? Because they all ready know which is best

I could say the same thing for a glock

[das028]

how is an xd more accurate than a 1911?
and why would magazine capacity really matter, my sig is a single stack does that mean your xd is already better than it?


I would say they are even in terms of combat accuracy. But you dont see to many XD bullseye pistols out there, or Glocks for that matter. But I dont shoot bullseye, and when I choose a pistol that doesnt factor into anything.:)

And to answer your question about the sig, for a fighting pistol yes it does.

[Phil DeGraves]

The 1911 is overrated like correct spelling is overrated. :)
By the way, it is not a "blowback" operated pistol; it is a short recoil locked breech.
And, like someone else said, the 1911 has been around for 100 years. The polymer wonderguns will have gone the way of the dodo in a hundred years (so will have most of us).

[Phil DeGraves]

I suppose a 1911 can't hold a candle to the GLOCK and XD in the "chew toy" category.

[Phil DeGraves]

The 1911 malfunctions at about the same rate that the GLOCKs blow up.

[das028]

Come on Phil, elaborate please?

BTW, those are the same tired excuses everybody uses!

You dont like what we are saying, so you knock on somebodys spelling. Lets keep this civil so this thread doesnt get locked.

By the way, has your dog or anybody you know of, dog as used a glock as a chew toy?

Has a glock ever KB'ed on you?


The polymer wonderguns will have gone the way of the dodo in a hundred years (so will have most of us).


And I dont even know what this means?

[j1133s]

Depends on what you want to do with it. The 1911 does have a nice history and everybody (incl. non-gun people) seems to know the looks of it and its .45ACP cartridge. Shooting it is easy due to the 45's slowness and the gun's single action trigger.

It's not the ideal carry weapon by today's standards. heavy, single action, poor hollowpoint feeding, low round count, no changable grips, relatively expensive.

[Phil DeGraves]

"By the way, has your dog or anybody you know of, dog as used a glock as a chew toy?"

"Has a glock ever KB'ed on you?"

Answer #1 Yes. (well, actually, it was a S&W Sigma, but since GLOCK sued S&W on a patent infringement claim and WON, we can assume that a GLOCK would not have fared any better.

Answer #2 Not to me personally, but to two (not one, but TWO) people I know.

The fact is, whether something is "worth the money" or "overrated" is a purely subjective viewpoint. We 1911 guys are never going to convince you GLOCK guys and you guys will never convince us. To us, the 1911 is the best gun going and we can offer SUBJECTIVE proof that it is the best gun for US. You guys may be able to do the same for your GLOCKs. What neither of us will be able to do is convince the other that the others gun is better for us. Nor should we. As someone said on another thread "Celebrate diversity."
You shoot your plastic and we'll shoot our steel and we'll all have a good time at the range.

[Phil DeGraves]

"It's not the ideal carry weapon by today's standards. heavy, single action,..."

Maybe not the ideal carry gun, but those same reasons are why it is an excellent fighting handgun. And I've never had problems with HPs in any of my 1911s.

[carterbeauford]

you omitted "strongly disagree"

Plastic guns just don't bring a smile to my face like a 1911 does. I'd honestly compare shooting a 1911 for the first time to making love to a beautiful woman for the first time.

"Better" is objectively impossible and thus meaningless. If you feel better carrying a Glock, then by all means, carry a Glock. I'd have a hard time carrying anything other than a 1911 now that I've seen what I can do with one. Only my opinion, but a few people seem to agree.

John M. Browning was a genius, not so sure I can say the same about Gaston Glock.

[Jkwas]

A quality gun is a quality gun. A good 1911 is good, and a crummy 1911 is crummy. I here a lot of stories on the forum about cheap 1911's that have to be "tuned up" in order to be satisfactory. They have cult status and are probably overated, but so are a lot of other guns. I have no strong desire to get one now, but in the future I might. It's just a matter of personal taste I guess and not some inherent "1911 superiority" so to speak. Flame suit on :rolleyes:

[CAS Gunfighter]

This seems like as good of place as any to speak up.

It is more than obvious that the 1911 is tried and true.

There are as many reasons to agree that they are "that great" as there are variations of the design available today in as many pricepoints.

[orionengnr]

Not too many other subjects could generate seven pages of replies in seven days...

If they are over-rated, then they have been over-rated for 96 years. And nobody has caught on yet... :rolleyes:

[VerrySavage]

I have had quite a few auto loaders over the years, my first was a Browning Highpower 9mm, I loved that one, it's only flaw being the SA only requiring me to cock it before firing, which was handled whan racking the first round into the chamber. I wish I had kept that old warhorse now, but sadly I let it go years ago, since then I have owned a Springfield 1911, CZ75, Norinco 1911 knock off, Berretta 92as well as several I can't recall, in addition to a collection or Ruger Mk I, & MkII's. I reciently ordered a brand new Ruger KP345 .45acp, it should be in my posession by Tuesday or Wednesday this week. I am very much looking forward to shooting Ruger's latest remake of the 1911 .45 theme pistol.
I don't have much use for the Glock pistols I have fired that are owned by friends, they do not feel natural in my hand, for one thing they are too light for me, part of my discomfort with them might be the angle of the grip to the bore which is quite different from my pistols that I shoot alot, I have noticed more muzzle jump from the Glocks I have shot, while they did not fail they were not as fast in target aquisition on follow up shots. For these reasons I have been unwilling to go out & spend my cash on a Glock. I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate the Glock brand, but I would gladly settle on the Norinco 1911 knock off before I would buy a Glock with my own money.
My .02 cents on this topic, btw I enjoyed reading all the comments.:eek:
--Ken

[Dobe]

If they are over-rated, then they have been over-rated for 96 years. And nobody has caught on yet...

Good point, and well said. These debates and discussions would not continue, if the 1911 were not such a sought after and effective side arm.

Dobe

[HiltonFarmer]

:banghead: Where's the debate? Been around for almost a hundred years and every custom house in the world has imitated it or at least tried to.

My father in law used one in WWII and still has his issue sidearm (how I'm not sure but he does). Fires great groupings with it for a gentleman who is 84. Yup, he comes to the range with me still! :D

Hiltonfarmer

[Blacklabman]

The 1911.
I own a SA Loaded.
It is fun to own one for the range and History involved.
Beyond that(CCW, Night Stand)....... I'll pass.

[Jim Z.]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/Pathfinder09/HPIM0743.jpg

:cool:

[Redhat]

All you youngsters go ahead and play with your plastic. Eventually you'll want one!:D

[Master Blaster]

There is a reason why all of the top military special forces units, the Civilian police and FBI SWAT Teams, and all of the top competitors in Most action pistol sports, the Bianchi Cup Challenge etc, and Bullseye pistol, Use a 1911 pattern pistol.

Remember for these folks cost is no object but performance is mandatory.

The 1911 Simply the best, most ergonomic versatile and accurate, durrable, reliable, customizable Pistol known to man.

There I've had my say. ;) :cool: :)

[Soulrider]

one of these will never win a beauty contest.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/ennairem/beautyqueen.jpg

[Hawk]

I'm going to dust off an old surmise: the 1911 isn't over rated simply because there are people that think it isn't optimum and will express their opinion.

An olde marketing report mentioned brand loyalty that could not be explained away by product superiority or brilliant advertising. Some stuff just generated something of a "cult" following. Examples, from the time the report was printed, included Apple Computer and Saturn.

Hence the defining aspect of being "over rated" is a shortage of people bashing the product, perhaps due to simple disinterest, and an owner base exhibiting enthusiasm on top of satisfaction.

1911s, Glocks and Hi-Points all have sufficient detractors to forever save them from being accused of being "over rated".

Some possible examples of "over rated" might include Bersa .380s and Makarovs. The owner base seems enthusiastic beyond what might be reasonably expected of simple "satisfaction" and few people exhibit overt disapproval of the product.

No chance any 1911 or Glock is over rated: too many people overtly dislike one or the other and exhibit zero reticence in posting their opinion.

Feel free to adjust my list. In addition to Bersa and Mak, XDs don't seem to have many detractors, ditto BHPs, SIG 210s, HK P7s - again, the criteria is "enthusiastic" proponents and few vocal detractors.

The ultimate irony is of course that most, if not all, "are ______ over rated" threads are self-answering in the negative, being usually posted by someone knocking the product and therefor removing it from consideration as "over rated". This thread would be a good example, the OP being pretty much an advertisement for Glock at the expense of the 1911.

[sgb]

:scrutiny:

[never_summer]

shouldnt the xd guys be making a thread like this about glocks :neener:

[das028]

"By the way, has your dog or anybody you know of, dog as used a glock as a chew toy?"

"Has a glock ever KB'ed on you?"

Answer #1 Yes. (well, actually, it was a S&W Sigma, but since GLOCK sued S&W on a patent infringement claim and WON, we can assume that a GLOCK would not have fared any better.

Answer #2 Not to me personally, but to two (not one, but TWO) people I know.

The fact is, whether something is "worth the money" or "overrated" is a purely subjective viewpoint. We 1911 guys are never going to convince you GLOCK guys and you guys will never convince us. To us, the 1911 is the best gun going and we can offer SUBJECTIVE proof that it is the best gun for US. You guys may be able to do the same for your GLOCKs. What neither of us will be able to do is convince the other that the others gun is better for us. Nor should we. As someone said on another thread "Celebrate diversity."
You shoot your plastic and we'll shoot our steel and we'll all have a good time at the range.


Hey brother, if you go back to my original posts, you can see that I have respect for the 1911 platform, as should all red blooded American male. But the fact of the matter is, is this day in age, there is alot other more effective options out there for a fighting (self defence) pistol. I thinks alot od dhooters tend to be more loyal to their particular brand or platform of pistol. If you dont realize that either your to stubborn or to set in your ways to realize it.

And its true alot of gun owners kinda tend to be "gun snobs", if you will, and I am guility as well, as I tend to like Benelli shotguns more then any other, for instance.

[Taffnevy]

I think the wording of this poll is a little confusing.

[tango3065]

I own 2 1911's and while I enjoy the heck out of them I do think they are overrated some degree, in a life or death situation they would not be my choice for a go to gun. That said I don't think I would ever get rid of them either, they are the eye candy of the handgun world and a blast to shoot.

[VerrySavage]

"in a life or death situation they would not be my choice for a go to gun"
Even with a variety of artiliary in my gun safe, when it comes to "repelling boarders" I would have to agree with your statement, my Pistols & Revolvers are not my first choice for defense, if it came to "Upclose & Personal, roothog or die scenario" I first grab my 12ga SxS Coach Gun, IMHO my .45 Pistol or .44 Mag Revolver is for dealing with survivors of my initial repelling of agression by the (ex)perp as in deceased or die'n perp.
But my 1911 or KP345 would be my 3rd grab right after the 12ga & shot shells.
Fortunately I have out lived any enemies I had, I no longer associate with those who bring that level of risk to me or my family, durring the Calgary Biker Wars of 25 to 30 years ago both my wife or I always answered the Steel reinforced door with the Greener @ the ready, hammers cocked, same went for every time we went out of the house. Durring that 5 to 6 year period I knew 18 Bro's who were shot, stabbed or blown up with booby trapped vechicles, I do fondly recall the feelings of brotherhood, but I do not miss the ongoing rivalry that led to so much bloodshed. I am glad to have grown up.
My new aproach to life is what I call the velvet hammer, the hammer is wrapped in velvet so it looks respectable, maybe even up-town, but when push comes to shove I still wield the hammer.;)
--Ken:eek:

[jazor]

The 1911 was made when there was no computers to help design it. The 1911 was made when trial and error was used to make things. 1911 is the year the Army adopted it, John Browning started desiging and building it in the late 1890s.

Glock was made after the 1911 was and used more morden manfacture techniques and material. Glock uses the same mode of operation that John Browning design for the 1911. Yes it is different and does not look like a 1911 but uses the same mode of operation.

Can you name any other pistol or man made item that has lasted over one hundred years with very little change to the basic design. I can only name one the 1911.

Yes it has changed over the years with better steel and ways to make it.

The Glock is a good weapon, but to me the best one is the 1911.

When I carry on duty it is a Springfield with a add on Capsin light rail and M3 light.

Everybody has differnt size hands and strength levels. If you can shoot the Glock well and it fits you use it. If the 1911 shoots well for you and fits you use it.

The basisc premise here is this, use the pistol that fits and shoots for you. To me there is only one the 1911

:)

[Phil DeGraves]

"...there is alot other more effective options out there for a fighting (self defence) pistol."

Not for me there isn't. And it isn't about being stubborn. For any application of a personal sidearm, I do best with the 1911. And I have tried just about everything else. The FACTS are that I shoot the 1911 better than I shoot any thing else in every application for which I care to use a pistol. I am not saying that it is best for anybody else, just that it is best for ME. Therefore, from MY SUBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW, No, it is not overrated.

[Lonestar.45]

Disagree.

There's a reason Smith and Wesson, Sig, and others finally began making 1911's after all these years, and it ain't because they suck.

My taste in pistols is wide and varied. I've had Glocks, Berettas, S&W's, Kahrs, and more. But every time I put my hand on the grip of a 1911, it just feels right. I know a lot of you out there know what I mean. Nostalgia doesn't put 10 rds into the bull, but my 1911 can, over and over, and that's what counts.

[Lonestar.45]

Disagree.

There's a reason Smith and Wesson, Sig, and others finally began making 1911's after all these years, and it ain't because they suck.

My taste in pistols is wide and varied. I've had Glocks, Berettas, S&W's, Kahrs, and more. But every time I put my hand on the grip of a 1911, it just feels right. I know a lot of you out there know what I mean. Nostalgia doesn't put 10 rds into the bull, but my 1911 can, over and over, and that's what counts.

[willbrink]

Personally, I agree with Hilton Yam who said:

"For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal. For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."

[Lonestar49]

...

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery..

A picture is worth a thousand words..

Don't leave home without it.. lol


LS

[Scorpiusdeus]

Like with so many things, it's not one size fits all. The 1911 has proven it's value to many people, and others feel they need something else. No problem there.

My only real problem is when people say things like "The only real gun is a 1911" or the worst and most popular, "And caliber meant for combat should start with a four and end with a five".

These are the myths held on to too tightly by people who fear change.

[Radjxf]

Personally, I agree with Hilton Yam who said:

"For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal. For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."


This mostly hits the nail on the head. I see a Glock as an object for someone with little firearms experience, not much pride in ownership, NOT mechanically inclined and indifferent regarding maintenance. Usually the same types complaining about low capacity--they'll need the 33rd Glock mags to get 5 rds on target!:p

[robertbank]

The 1911 is a great old design. For playing the games IDPA/IPSC it has few peers. Is it th eultimate pistol design...I don't think so but a great design nevertheless.

MY choice now, after shooting one is the CZ97B if you want a large frame fighting pistol in .45acp. D/A option with higher capacity in a gun no larger than a 1911. IF it qualified for CDP in IDPA I doubt many would stick with the 1911 over the CZ. Just my opinion.

Take Care

Bob

[mavracer]

without a doubt it speaks volumes that after 96 years 75% agree its great. and the design still dominates many competitions.another thing whe after 100 years your main competition (smith) breaks down and just copys your design well you know what they say about Imatation

[longeyes]

All I know is I shoot my 1911s noticeably better than any other handgun I own. It's nice to put 'em where you want 'em--isn't that the point?

[triguy]

I carry one of those "other" ones daily for my job but own five 1911's or variants of same.

[camslam]

Great guns, but with the level of coverage in magazines and elsewhere, there really isn't that much new with the 1911.

It wouldn't have been around and in use for as long as it has if it weren't a great gun, but seriously way, way, overhyped.

[glockman19]

I disagree. I'm sure 1911 guy is surprised to hear that. in the .45 chambering the 1911 take it all IMHO. in 9mm I'll give it to the Glock. 1911's shouldn't be chambered in 9mm. I have both and shoot a little better with the 1911 full size than I do the Glock 19 compact, and much better than the Glock 26 sub-compact, or S&W J-frames. Different tools for different situations.

[Silvanus]

This mostly hits the nail on the head. I see a Glock as an object for someone with little firearms experience, not much pride in ownership, NOT mechanically inclined and indifferent regarding maintenance.

That is a pretty stupid comment in my opinion. I have more than just "little experience" with firearms and I am a proud Glock-owner. I agree that it is easier to use then a 1911, but what's the problem with that? You think yourself superior because you shoot a 1911 instead of a different, modern, proven, reliable design? Sounds rather arrogant to me and I admit that I can't follow your logic. Sounds like the wannabe-"snipers" at my range who think they are "better" because they shoot tighter groups with their scoped 5000 € rifles than other people (including me) who enjoy shooting cheap AKs and FALs.

Besides, I think that if it wasn't THE American pistol, it wouldn't be nearly as popular. I wish the Germans had designed it:neener:

[Kingslayer]

Yes it IS over rated.

So many people have said that it's a design that has withstood almost 100 years of time.

I say it's time to get with the program. Very few things in this world have remained relatively unchanged for that long. I think it's the pistol that time has forgot. It's not one that I would carry in defense of my life fresh out of the box like I would almost any other popular pistol.

Today's .45s offer better ergonomics, better design, better reliability, and better capacity. And usually at a better price point.

Saying that Glocks are for new gun users is like you looking down your nose because I have one of those new fandangled cars with a batter and a starter while you prefer to hand crank your engine to life.

[mavracer]

Saying that Glocks are for new gun users is like you looking down your nose because I have one of those new fandangled cars with a batter and a starter while you prefer to hand crank your engine to life.
IMHO glocks are a poor choice for an inexperianced shooter as are most semi- autos. they are however an exellent platform to teach newbies as long as you beat keeping your booger hook off the bang switch into their heads.and I would equate muzzleloaders with hand cranking.my 1911 is more like my beloved go anywhere start everyday CARBURATED bronco

[6Gunslinger]

I'm under 30 and have just started getting into shooting. I have a couple revolvers and wanted to get into autoloaders but wasn't sure what the best platform would be which I why I started my 1911 vs. G19 thread.... sorry I didn't realize it had been done so many times before but you guys were a great help in making my decision.

Well I wound up going with the 1911. I know a lot of young guys that have never fired anything but a polymer 9mm and I wanted to have a more "traditional" experience which is why I started with a S&W K-22 in the first place. I may someday wind up with a Glock, but for right now I'm really happy with my decision and want to build my chops on the old school pieces.

I have one more thought on the matter of Glock worship that may sound stupid but my contention is that a lot of guys (especially young guys that like to show off) just like saying GLOCK!!!

I am not down playing the weapon because I know they are awesome for what they are, but don't you think they are kind of overated? Not to mention the fact that every other rap artist talks about having a "glock with a full clip" in their songs. I know I may get bashed for saying this, but does anybody think that if a GLOCK was called something else, it may not be as popular? ok, let the bashing begin!

thanks for listening to my $0.02

[Hunter0924]

When talking Government Models that is far to large of a group for all manufacturers of that pistol to be lumped into.
Be sure there is a large difference in quality between a Colt made Government Model than say a Kimber.
Colt uses forged receivers and slides, 2 mim parts, and are fitted by gunsmiths using quality parts that have been fitting pistols many, many years.
Comparing a Colt Government Model to a Glock is asinine, as that is an apples and oranges.
The Government Model is a design that has stood the test of time and has been battle proven over the decades.
The Glock is the new wave for the younger Hollywierd generation to jump on that are not familiar with quality.
I am sick of these comparisons and probable should not even reply but dang it considering all Government Models are the same and need tuning to work is so far from the truth I could not help myself.
Glocks are not perfect, they do jam and from time to time blow up due to poor case head support.

[Quentin]

Yeah the 1911 is that great. Nothing wrong with a Glock and they look mean but I'll stay with what's worked well for me and so many others (millions!)

[enfield]

I own a 1911 and a Sig. I'll take the Sig. YMMV.

I don't like safties and I think the 1911 has way too many. I will admit that I don't own a compact 1911 and have never fired one. I like the SA trigger on the 1911, but I'm accustomed to DA/SA so it's no big deal to me. I've also never shot a DAO Sig, so I don't know if I'd prefer a SA trigger to a DAO. I DO know that my Sig 239 in .40 is the best concealed carry pistol I've tried so far.

My 1911 is a favorite to take to the range, but I'll carry the Sig.

[Cannonball888]

I've shot both. I shoot more accurately with a 1911. For me a Glock feels like holding a 2 x 4 which obviously is harder to control and to conceal. As for weight, my SA 1911 Champion is light with an alloy frame. And as others have said Blocks are just butt ugly.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282928

[crebralfix]

I really like the look, feel, and performance of the 1911. I think the trigger is the best of any handgun. However, I have yet to find one that's been reliable over the course of one year (having to change a recoil spring does not count since I consider that normal maintenance). My Glocks, SIGs, Berettas, etc keep chugging along with a minimum of maintenance and factory magazines. I have tried numerous times to get one to work reliably, with factory and private gunsmiths working on them. It's getting expensive. I'm at the point of not even looking at any 1911 that costs less than $1,500 because I want the support of a real gunsmith.

So, for all of you that have those reliable 1911s that never jam...great! I have yet to find one of those. Please send me your secret of finding one.

[robertbank]

Here is my secret. I bought a Para SSP. 2,000 rounds and nary a hicup. I also have a $325.Cdn Norinco that has never refused anything I have fed her. Up here the Norinco A1 has to be the best gun buy on the planet.

Take Care

Bob

ps. Well the Norinco M 14's at $399Cdn, might be a tad better. Love them both.

[Kevin108]

It's a nice platform but there's nothing you can do to it that will make it kill deader than dead, no matter what the gun rags would have you believe.

[jad0110]

All I know is I shoot my 1911s noticeably better than any other handgun I own. It's nice to put 'em where you want 'em--isn't that the point?

That sums it up nicely.

What difference does it make what you pick as long as you can shoot it and it works? If a you can shoot a Glock and it is reliable, great! If it's a 1911, great! If it's a Ruger Revolver, great!

Take my father for example. He has never owned a firearm in his life, but he has been bitten by the 1873 Single Action Army bug. He has developed a real passion for this guns. And I bet because of that passion and interest, he will be able to shoot one pretty friggin' good, with some practice. If that is the case, I believe he will be well served with one for home defense.

I'm at the point of not even looking at any 1911 that costs less than $1,500 because I want the support of a real gunsmith.

So, for all of you that have those reliable 1911s that never jam...great! I have yet to find one of those. Please send me your secret of finding one.

In my limited observations (I don't quite own a 1911 yet), it appears to me that the less expensive GI guns are more reliable than the tricked-out, high dollar 1911s. I'm not suggesting that high dollar 1911s are unreliable. I am merely pointing out that basic GI/milspec guns, which are generally left relatively closer to John Moses Browning's original design intent, would seem to have fewer potential ways to get boogered up at the factory. For a 1911 that costs less than $1,500 with the "support of a real gunsmith", I think a perfect example would be a Springfield Armory GI, Mil-Spec, or Loaded Model. Most people who own them say they work very reliably and feeding all sorts of hollowpoint ammunition with ease (I have a Mil-Spec on order for this reason). And if it breaks or doesn't feed right, Springfield's customer service is second to none.

Other affordable 1911s that have a great reputation for reliability out-of-the-box include Rock Island Arsenals and Norincos (getting harder to find). Taurus makes an affordable 1911, but it's still pretty new to judge.

A lot of the 1911's unreliability reputation comes from all the monkeys out there armed with a dremel and just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Or, as others have pointed out, there are so many different manufacturers making 1911s in so many different ways that you are bound to have some goofed up ones. Imagine if 25 different companies were making Glocks, and no two brands were alike.

Anyway, I'll stick to what I shoot best: DA wheelguns and 1911s :) .

[obxned]

1. Do you mean a plain jane 1911, or one with hundreds (or thousands) of dollars of handwork?

2. Without help, they don't feed JHPs really well.

3. While the single action trigger is great, the whole 'cocked and locked' thing is not something every shooter is comfortable with.

[robertbank]

"Without help, they don't feed JHPs really well."

Might have been true with the early Colts but this certainly isn't true anymore. MY Chinese Norincos feeds them as reliably as ball ammo as does my Para. Don't know anyone at our club shooting 1911's in .45acp that doesn't shoot some form of semi-wadcutter or jacketed soft point/holow point bullets.

Barrels are either fully ramped or throated from the factory.

Take Care

Bob

[OneShot!]

If you ask me whether 1911 is a good pistol and would I like to have it in my collection? Then the answer is DEFINATELY.

But is it over rated? I am afraid yes.

[2ndamd]

I certainly do not like the 1911. I don't like the SA trigger, grip safety, or how you have to have a special tool to take it down.

But, is this gun a truely GREAT fighting weapon? You bet it is. Juts not my cup of tea.

[Mike Kerr]

The " 1911 " design of today is a great gun. It is not over rated, but it is costly compared to some " out of the box " polymers.

Regards,

:):):)

[Old Dog]

Eight pages of posts thus far, still nothing new has been said ... Is a Jeep 4x4 the most overrated vehicle for four-wheelin' out there, or can you get to the same places in a Toyota or Landrover?

However, I still can't resist: ya either get it ... or ya don't.

[Kevin108]

Built Jeep tough...with Chevy stuff is how the saying goes, isn't it?

With guns and 4x4s, a lot of times it's not what you buy but what you build.
I don't know anybody who actually uses them that leaves either stock for long!

:)