[mattw]

I've been wanting to get a one-knife-fits-all survival/utility knife for a while now.

I've been looking at the SOG Seal Knife 2000 and the good ole' USMC Ka-Bar.
They both seem to have good heavy blades capable of holding an edge with the Ka-Bar having proven it self for generations as a go-to, do-all, being used for everything from a pry bar to a bone saw with success.

So what are the best features to look for in a knife like this. What are your reccomendations?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009U7810.01-A36NIL00HJ3IIY._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
http://www.uscav.com/prodInfo/images/8097.jpg

[rustymaggot]

the first one.

[hkenvy91]

i own a ka-bar and i am very pleased with it.plus its proven its self though the test of time and countless wars. and man she's sharp. i do think the modern sheaths that come with them arent all that, they could be made with better grade leather.

[sm]

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/771555/tp/1/

[sonofodin]

Cold Steel ODA or UWK. I have an ODA and if you hone the Carbon V a little it will take a rather sharp edge and hold it. I keep it close by whenever possible.

[hso]

Kinda depends upon the environment you intend to use it in. What environment are to selecting them for?

Regardless I wouldn't throw either into the lake if I found them in a crash, but they wouldn't be my first pick either. The blades are much longer than needed and make delicate tool making difficult.

[Kaylee]

I'm gonna (sorta) echo hso on this one.. the extra length of the Ka-bar pattern just seems useless to me. There's not enough weight out there to make it particularly good for chopping, but it's too long to use the point easily for finer work. That said, it's a wicked weapon.

I certainly see the appeal of the little fixed blades (say 3-4") and his little Blackjack is certainly a delight.

That said, this is what I purchased last fall or so:
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=51309&stc=1&d=1168869337
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=51308&stc=1&d=1168869329

As a general purpose woodland tool, I really like it. It's compact enough to carry, yet adequately serves in the role of small hatchet, woodworking tool, and general knife. No it's not as good as say a fixed blade scout knife and a woods axe and a folding saw and a hide scraper... but it'll do all those jobs well enough without having to carry around a toolbox.

I don't know as I'd recommend it outside of forested environments, since so much of its utility derives from what you can do with it on wood. Certainly I wouldn't recommend it as a weapon - the balance and grip are just all wrong for that.

edit -- oh yeah, I got it from this maker:
http://www.mtknives.com/wsk.html

[Soap]

I like this design although I do not own one personally:

http://www.barkriverknifetool.com/bushcraft/northstar/index.html

[Brian Williams]

Give me a Schrade/Old-timer barehead liner locking trapper with a Carbon blade from the original Schrade plant not from Taylor(chinese)Ltd.

['Card]

When I'm in the field I carry a SOG Hunter Revolver and a Leatherman Wave.

I figure whatever the problem is, if I can't handle it with one of those two knives I probably shouldn't be handling it.

[eden892]

I like the Buck nighthawk considering it's quality, availability, design,and price.

[Skofnung]

After years of trying stuff, I've settled on a ~4" Scandinavian style fixed blade. It does things bigger knives don't do as well such as carving a figure 4 trigger or whittling a wooden spoon. I've used a cheap Frosts Clipper to baton down saplings almost two inches in diameter with no damage to the knife. That is all thant need be asked of a survival knife... at least in my opinion.

I still carry my Ka-bar on occasion, but I find that I don't use it as much as the smaller knife.

[mattw]

Kinda depends upon the environment you intend to use it in.

It would be used primarily in woodland areas.

[mattw]

A couple relpies suggested that the blades of the Ka-Bar and the SEAL knife were a bit too long.

What do you think about the SEAL Pup?

4.75" blade instead of 7"

http://www.extremeoutfitters.us/ProductImages/knives/sog/sealpupfinish.jpg

[p35]

Mora knives are standard issue at a lot of survival schools. I tend to agree that a big knife isn't that useful for the weight.

[Skofnung]

What do you think about the SEAL Pup?


Just from the looks of it, (I've never handled one) here is my critique.

The first thing that I see that I don't like is a serrated blade. I find serrated blades to be of very limited utility. I can't think of anything that a serrated blade will do that a sharp plain edge won't.

The next thing that would limit its utility is the double guard. Much fine work is accomplished by putting your thumb on the spine of the blade and pushing it through the material. It can be done with a double guard in the way, but it is uncomfortable after a short while.

The choil has no place on a woods knife in my opinion. That fingers breadth open space in front of the guard is wasted space. There should be edge there.

Again, this is from just looking at the picture, but it looks as if the blade is quite thick. This is a disadvantge in a working knife in that it makes slicing harder. I am of the school of thought that thick blades are best left to axes and that knives are for cutting, not prying.

In my opinion, this is an ideal woods knife for the belt:
http://ragweedforge.com/3520.jpg
I don't own one of these yet, but I will soon. I've been using a less expensive version of this style of knife for some time now and I find it to be ideal.

www.ragweedforge.com
Get thee hence and look around. They are not tactical, but for use in the woods they are ideal.

As always, the above is just my opinion. I hope it helps.

[hso]

I agree with everything that Skofung says except for this - The choil has no place on a woods knife in my opinion. That fingers breadth open space in front of the guard is wasted space. There should be edge there. I've found the choil to be very handy for moving up on the blade for finer work.

I'd also add that a flat spine that you can baton is very much preferable to the pseudo double edge look that has no real practical function.

[CWL]

mattw,
I think that it would help if you definied where you will likely need this knife. Do you live in woods, what kind? Mountains? Desert? Snow? Are you a solo boater? Knives may differ greatly depending on where you will need it.

I have owned a SOG II (the original version of the SOG knife below) for close to 20 years. I have found it too big for regular carry, also the edge is too thick for general or detail work (It cannot notch sticks for trapmaking), also the handle came loose after a few years. I never even consider it whenever I go into the Sierras or overseas.

I mostly prefer Scandinavian knives in the 4-5" range nowadays. They have been used as survival knives in the Arctic zone for centuries so have proved themselves to be totally functional and devoid of useless features. I love my Kellam Wolverine as well as my Helle Eggen knives. You may also want to investigate the Bark River series of knives like the Highland Special & Bushcraft knives (although I feel that the handle is too small in the Highland Special & Fox River knives for my taste).

[Max Power]

You can't go wrong with a mora and the price is very good.
The Seal pup is all right but I am not a fan of serrations(they won't hurt anything though) and SOG sometimes uses crappy steel.

The Buck 119 is a good knife for the price and the hollow gring lets it cut like a thinner knife.

The Fallkniven forest knife is near perfect and a ripping good deal at the price.

I carry my scrapyard SS4 but it is hard to find.

Bowhunters like the Sog revolver becuase they use the saw blade to clear site lanes. The saw would be usefull in a survival situation.

Cold Steel carbon V knives are exellent but they don't make them any more.
The CS bushman is another 20$ super value. There are films on the net showing the bushman handling incredible abuse. It is on my must buy list
with a laminated steel mora and the Hattori fighter.

[mattw]

I think that it would help if you definied where you will likely need this knife. Do you live in woods, what kind? Mountains? Desert? Snow? Are you a solo boater?

I live in south mississippi (lots of pine forrests with a few hardwoods mixed in, very humid and somewhat marsh-like). I spend alot of time at the river in the summers and it may see some light utility duty as a truck knife.

But I would like to have something that would be capable in a woodland survival situation because I do some camping.

[plexreticle]

gerber multi pliers if that counts.

[Zero_DgZ]

Ontario Knife machete and a decent multi tool like a Gerber Legend or Leatherman Wave/Surge.

[bubbygator]

Becker!

http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?bkt/index.shtml~main

[mattw]

What do you guys think about Kizlyar? They are Russian, is it good steel?

I was looking at the Sterh

http://kizlyar.ru/gif/catalog/razdel/elastron/sterh-1_white.jpg

[Skofnung]

I live in south mississippi (lots of pine forrests with a few hardwoods mixed in, very humid and somewhat marsh-like). I spend alot of time at the river in the summers and it may see some light utility duty as a truck knife.


Sounds like you are in an environment much like mine. Most of my woods time is spent in and around the Apalachicola National Forest here in Northern Florida. I've tried everything under the sun in terms of cutlery (all <$100, I've yet to break the C note mark, that will change soon...) and it seems that I always go back to a Scandinavian style knife for general use.

Try this. Go ahead and get a big knife (6" blade or longer) and a Frosts Mora Carbon Steel Clipper. After one year of toting them both around in the woods, ask yourself which one you used most often. Were I a betting man, I'd bet that you find the Mora much more useful.

[Skofnung]

I don't know about the steel in that one, but it looks like a good design.

[mattw]

Ok whats better. The Mora clipper with the carbon steel blade or the stainless sandvik blade.

[CWL]

Carbon blade, I have actually lathered-up and shaved with one as a test. Although because you live in such a high-humidity zone, you may need to consider the stainless Mora. Mora knives are great, I have a couple of them and would stake my life on them, but they just aren't as pretty as a better made knife. This may bother you if you want a knife for "show" as well.

That Kizlar blade looks like a copycat of the Fallkniven F1 blade. Fallkniven makes good knives, they supply the Swedish military and have a good 'rep' across the world.

[mattw]

So carbon has better edge holding properties than stainless?

I could keep the blade free of corrosion, would carbon be the better (sharper longer, stronger) choice?

How does the fallkniven f1 stack up to the mora clipper?

[hso]

The rule of thumb is that carbon makes a better working knife blade than "stainless". That rule get's bent a lot when high tech rust resistant steels start getting put up against various carbon tool steels.

Kizlyar makes a good option in eastern europe since they should be available at prices well below the imported American products. The claims are that they are buying steel from France, Austria and Sweden depending upon the quality and price.

[Skofnung]

I have several Carbon Clippers and one Stainless. The Carbon steel models are superior to the stainless. The stainless ones are not bad, they just are not as good as the carbon.

Don't worry about the humidity causing rust. I've never had a problem with any of mine rusting so long as I clean and dry the blade after use. One lives in my truck, and anyone who has been to Tallahassee in the summertime can tell you, it is very humid here.

If you get a Mora, you will need to do two things. First, you will need to flatten the spine, then flatten the edges. Let me know if you don't know how to do this and I'll walk you through it. It is not hard.

The Fallkniven brand is far superior to the Moras by repute (I don't have one yet.) If you have the money to get a Fallkniven, I suggest getting it.

[SpookyPistolero]

If it's of any help, I've been through this decision recently. I've been trying to find that 'do-all' camp/pack blade for a good while, though with some big budget restrictions. I have not been satisfied with anything like the Ka-Bar blade style, so I've decided to get a mora as a good fixed blade and then a small ace/hatchet to fill in for heavier roles, rather that try to force one blade to be a 'jack of all trades'. (It's looking like the axe will be a 16" Wetterling.)

I've not ever used a mora, so I ordered a few from ragweed forge. They're hard to resist when you combine their low price and good reputation. I'm anxious to get them and put them through their paces.

Skofnung, how do you flatten the spine/edges, and what's the benefit from it? I'd certainly like to get the most out of the blades.

[aufevermike]

I personally love the Puma White Hunter especially the older ones, then again my Cold Steel Trail Master fits my environment as well.

[Skofnung]

Skofnung, how do you flatten the spine/edges, and what's the benefit from it? I'd certainly like to get the most out of the blades.

As far as I can tell, Mora knives are stamped as opposed to forged. Often (though not always) the spine will be left in the rough. This plays havoc on your thumb if you are whittling or doing fine work.

What I do is clamp a Bastard file in a vise and "reverse drawfile" she spine. You just hold the knife in your right hand, edge up, perpendicular to the file. Put the spine on the file and pull straight back towards yourself using moderate pressure. You should feel the file cutting the metal. Repeat this as many times as it takes to flatten the spine.

Once you have the spine roughly flat, do the same thing with a coarse grit stone (diamond, India, or sandpaper) to finish it up. You could use this from the start, but it would take longer to do.

To flatten the edges, just lay the bevel on a flat, coarse stone and sharpen away. At the factory, they use big grinding wheels, so the bevel is actually slightly hollow ground. You will see this as you progress, the back of the bevel and the edge will "come together" in the middle. That is, the last part of the edge to get flat will be the middle of the bevel.

The advantage of making the spine flat is threefold: it is easier on your thumb, it makes it easier to baton, and it makes a dandy firesteel striker. Plus, it just looks better.

Making the edges flat will help the blade cut better. It is well worth the effort.

Oh yhea, one thing I like to do is "patina" the blade before making the edges flat (after making the spine flat.) I just soak the blade in a olive jar full of warm vinegar for a few hours, then wash. This is not necessary, but it makes the blade look a little better (dark)... as if a Mora could look good :uhoh:

Hope that helps. Sorry for the hijack.

[mattw]

Your info is very welcome. I guess I need a course in blade anatomy because I am not 100% sure what you're talking about. The spine is the "top" of the knife blade if the cutting edge is the bottom, I think thats right. The edge are the flats that would make the "front" and "back" of the blade if the tip is pointing up and the cutting edge is oriented so that it faces the left or right. Is that correct?

Flattening the edge takes away the angle from the cutting edge to the flats and leaves only one angle that is from the cutting edge to the spine. Is that the idea? I guess that would make it easier to sharpen.

Now I need to learn how to effectively sharpen.

I don't mean to take this thread onto a detour, but can anyone reccomend any good books on knife maintinance and sharpening?

[Max Power]

There are 3 kinds of mora blade 1 stainless and 2 carbon. One of the carbon steel blades is laminated and that is the best one. The one issue with moras is they need a fair bit of work by the owner to make them work to their potential.
I like fiddling with my gear but if you want something perfect out of the box there are better choices.

Fallkniven are excellent but the blades are alot thicker than a mora by Erikson.
Fallkniven and most scandinavian knife manufacturers offer blades for people who make their own handles and sheaths. Alot of people like to customize their moras with fancy handles and custom sheaths.

I use a stainless clipper in my car survival kits because the kit knives may sit for years without being used or cared for. The stainless(sandavik) is very good, for stainless.

[pete f]

this is a big time ongoing discussion.

Lets not get all inflamed by this but here goes.

Big knife in the woods=a rookie or wanabe

Modest knife in the woods=he has the t shirt.

The Ka-bar is a great knife. truely is. In a war zone, where you might need to stab some guy, open a can of rations. hammer something, or use it to help dig a fox hole, there probably is not much better.

If you are not in a war zone, there are lots better tools available. If you look at the people who make their living in the wilds, most carry a smaller fixed blade and some kind of folder. I can not ever remember seeing a guide or native who carried a big knife.

Mora's are GREAT knives for the money. They are made of good steel and usually heat treated well for what they are needed for.

The issues of what steel open up pandora's box. I have seen grown men nearly throw punches at a show over which steel was the best.


Heat treat makes more difference than steel.

great steel(S30V or 154CM) with crappy heat treat=crappy knife

1095 with great heat treat=fantasitic knife

There is a difference between carbon and stainless, but very slim.

At the point where you are going to get a really good tough, sharp, durable edged knife, the differences are miniscule. That said, living in a moist, hot environment, I would definitely look for a stain resistant steel. 440C. ATS 34 or 154 CM would all make good choices. I would stay away from AUS-8, 420 stainless or any thing listed as 440 stainless (without the C) or surgical stainless. A well made hefty but smaller blade with serve your grandchildren. so buy well.

I really like the aforementioned bark river knives, great company to do business with. The owner is a stand up guy of the highest order and his people back the knives they make 100%. you mess it up, they will fix it. period.

They are knife users too. living in the UP of michigan, they are out in the woods all the time and that shows in the designs


PLease note, there are a lot of companies run by people who have a knack for marketing phrases. it is easy to be seduced by this. Very few are the companies that are run by knife people who actually spend nights under the stars. A good knife is not part axe, part hammer, bottle opener, and aircraft escape tool. it is a knife, period.


Hope this helps, feel free to PM if you want some more direct answers about different companies,

If you think the short little scandanavian blades are a little whimpy, ask the Soviet troops who fought the Finns during the Winter War. The feared the Puuko and the men who used it in the night....

[Boom-stick]

Doug Ritter RSK

http://www.dougritter.com/pp/GR/rsk_mk1_red_03-800w.jpg

I don't own one (yet) but I own a lot of his other bits and bobs and a lot of thought goes into his stuff:)

Good steel, won't rot, good lock up, made by Benchmade etc, etc...

[cudaman440]

Kabar with a Kydex sheath would take care of almost all of a persons needs, add a small axe and your good to go.:D

[Navy joe]

I was recently gifted with a 3.5" clip point fixed blade that fits the bill for most things. I also almost have a lock-blade SAK when I am out in the woods. If I am going out and not coming back though I want my HI Khukri, despite the weight.

[hso]

Doug has some very well though out designs. His RSK III is a nice design, but I'd still have flattened out the spine for battoning.
http://www.equipped.org/pp/gr/Wet_BeautyRSK3_rightA-20degree-36.jpg
http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic3001.htm

[Long Knife]

SM is on the money. There is a wealth of knowledge at knifeforums. If I was a young pup starting out, I'd go with a Bark River Gameskeeper and with that said, I carry a Randall #1 and a Blackjack 1-7. I like the looks of the Razorback Big Buffalo Horn and just ordered one of thoseand it will be my camp and survival knife. It's good to have a quality pocket knife and always carry it. I keep several different knives in my PSK and a 12 inch Ontario machete on my BOB. You can never have too many knives.

[Zero_DgZ]

I see a lot of jawing about uber-tactical specialty survival knives, but no comments on my machete. You'd have an awfully hard time felling trees, chopping firewood, clearing paths, or cutting up wood to build shelters with a 'survival' knife, even if it's a fairly large one (6" or so) but with my Ontario machete I can do all of the above. And I don't need to keep a razor sharp edge on it to do any of that, though a pocket diamond stone wouldn't be too bad of an idea to lash to the sheath. And if you break it, well... It's only 40 bucks down the drain, not a 250 dollar (or more!) custom or other nonsense.

Carry that in conjunction with a decent multi tool: Smaller knife to keep sharp (carving, skinning), pliers (first aid, fish hooks), maybe small scissors (cutting animal hide, fishing lines) and so forth seem infinitely more useful to me than a big scary looking knife.

[clarkford]

You said you wanted a do-all KNIFE that will appeal to EVERYTHING? Then get the KA-BAR. The KA-BAR has a nice leather handle that fits beautiful in any hand, has a hammer butt-plate for self explanatory reasons, has a double handguard so you wont slip up onto the blade if you intend to stab something (afterall, you might need it for self defense as well.), has a nice thick 7" blade, it might be a pain in the butt to chop things with, but a lot better leverage than a 3 inch blade, and if you need three inches to cut things, use the first three inches of the blade, if you need to do delicate work, pinch the knife towards the tip and have at it. Leather sheaths are plentiful and cheap. This is my opinion if you want ONE knife.

[LanEvo`]

I'm still a fan of these guys:

Ontario/RAT TAK-1
http://www.ontariorat.com/gallery/Fgallery1-3.jpg http://www.ontariorat.com/gallery/Fgallery1-5.jpg

You can get them in D2 or 1095. I think a 4.25" flat-ground blade is just about right for woods use.

[Boats]

My Criteria for a "survival knife."

Above all, the survival knife shall not be a folder. Why carry one that is pre-broken?

1. It shall not be stainless steel. Stainless is not as shock resistant as carbon and doesn't wear as well as carbon. It does look prettier and that's about it. A well done carbon blade, properly ground and heat treated, will always outperform a stainless counterpart.

2. It shall not be over five or six inches maximum. I do not purport to know how the machete became popular in the woods of North America, but such a blade is the ultimate compromise. It is nowhere near as good as an axe for chopping and it is not as useful for bushcrafting as a smaller blade is. A largish blade is ill suited to prying, rooting, and other unconventional knife tasks and is tougher to carry.

3. It shall have a secure sheath. Rapid deployment is nowhere near as important as security. Need a rapidly deployed knife? Take along a tactical folder. The main knife is the one you do not lose under any circumstances.

4. It shall have a reinforced point. I don't want it too pointy, but I don't want it not pointy enough. I prefer a drop point.

5. If it has a guard at all, the guard shall be single. A double guard is a hallmark of the fighting knife and it gets in the way of fine knife control. I'm not going to be fighting anyone with a knife. Worried about the wildlife? Make a fire hardened tipped spear with your knife. Feeling sophisticated? Flint knap a spear head and lash it to a stick. Distance is your friend in combat, especially with an animal.

6. It shall have a belly. The blade should have some curve to it. No wharncliffs. No tantos. No daggers. The thing needs to be able to cut a variety of material and it needs to be able to do it a lot. Severely straight edge(s) are a liability to productive work.

7. It shall not be overhardened. I'll trade a little edge holding ability for more shock resistance and being able to sharpen the knife on a river stone.

My favorites in no particular order:

Issakki Jarkenpaa Leuku/Puukko double knife rig. A 6.5 inch and a 3.8 inch scandi ground pair of knives in carbon steel with black, unpolished flats. Best wood working knives I have yet encountered. The bigger one is big enough for light chopping and can be batoned. The smaller one is easy to get terrifically sharp. Sheath is ultra secure in keeping the blades in.

Bark River Gameskeeper. A fantastically sharp convex ground A2 drop point hunter. I can't imagine breaking any of the three I own because it seems impossible. Factory sheath sucks.

Ontario RAT-5 or 7. My 1095 steel flat ground economy choice. Best American knives made for below $100.00 IMO. Factory sheath is really nice for the money and comes with a clip locking pouch.

I knock the Ka-Bar as an all arounder for the double guard and the relatively weak stick tang construction. The SOGs are stainless, (and not a really good grade to boot), have squarish handles and blade serrations and the blade profile is kind of incoherent. One can certainly do better in the price range or for just a little more.

[CWL]

mattw,
Get this book: "Bushcraft" by Mors Kochanski.. He is da' man when it comes to outdoors survival & living.

http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Outdoor-Skills-Wilderness-Survival/dp/1551051222/sr=8-1/qid=1168983122/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-3441240-5621705?ie=UTF8&s=books

The Bushcraft book will breakdown the proper use & care for knife, axe and saw in the outdoors. He is also a big proponent of Mora style knives for outdoors use.

Mors can take a 4" Mora knife and cut down 6" saplings, even larger trees if he uses a baton.

[lesjones]

I always enjoy your practical advice on knives.

I've got to try a puukko one of these days.

[Boats]

If you want to try a puukko, there is not a better place to get started than at http://www.ragweedforge.com/

Ragnar is top notch. His prices are fair, and unless otherwise noted, he only charges a flat $5.00 for shipping.

Personally, my next puukko is a Wood Jewel 10cm Carving Knife for $51.00

http://www.ragweedforge.com/wj-v10.jpg

[lesjones]

I've been looking at Ragweed Forge. Ragnar has the kind of online shop I really like: a store run by an honest enthusiast who knows what he's selling.

Is the #5618 on this page - http://www.ragweedforge.com/FinnishKnifeCatalog.html - similar to the combo you mention above?

[Boats]

No. Mine was 5629-b, which is not currently listed, probably because it is out of stock.

The pic still loads though if you have the image address:
http://www.ragweedforge.com/5629.jpg

$125.00 when I got them, but Ragnar's getting bent over by the poor performance of the dollar versus the euro lately. Might have to special order if you want the best double rig.

From the catalog, extreme left of the photo:

http://www.ragweedforge.com/kuva3.jpg

[mattw]

I think I have learned more from this thread than any one single thread on THR. Thanks to all the knowledgable contributors and let's hope we can keep exploring features and contruction of survival and utility knives!

I am looking at getting a couple books and a Mora and possibly a Fallkniven F1!

I have decided against any folders for anything but a pocket knife for small chores and possibly self defense.

I anticipate being deployed to Iraq some time in the coming years because I am in the application process for the USMC PLC program and if accepted I will be a 2nd Lt. upon completion of TBS and placed in charge of an infantry unit. I think this might be the place where a Ka-Bar or a SEAL knife 2000 would be best used. For anything else I think the Moras would be more than enough.

[Boom-stick]

HSO,

I thing the Ritter knife spines have that angle on them to help battoning not hinder it. I wind up holding a stick at an arkward angle to hit a flat spine on a smallish blade as it is. JMHO.

[hso]

Boom-stick, I don't think so, but I'll ask Doug.

[sm]

Boats,

Great Postings, and pictures as usual from you. Thank you for sharing!

[rbmcmjr]

I guess I am the lone dissenter on the whole mora/helle/puuko thing. I am very uncomfortable with any heavy-use knife that doesn't have a guard. The very thought gives me the willies.

I prefer a little more beef in the blade, giving up pure slicing for some geometrical strength. My favorites are these two Kreins, the top one a TK7 in A2 and the bottom a TK5 in D2. Blades are on the order of 4.5" and 1/8" thick. Plenty of handle for good control and the rudimentary guard wards off the willies.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/rbmcmjr/kreinwoodcraft1.jpg

This one is a Charles May "Big Hand Scandi" and has a 4.5" blade of 5/32" D2 and a true scandi double grind. It is sharper than blue blazes. The Ironwood makes it almost too nice to use, but it wears well.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/rbmcmjr/woodcraft2.jpg

[mattw]

I love the looks of the knife in your second picture. I bet it costs a fortune.

[Boom-stick]

Hso, I'm pretty sure I read on Doug website about using the blade spine for battoning but I'm not sure, be good to see what he says.



I guess I am the lone dissenter on the whole mora/helle/puuko thing.

No You're not, I don't like them much either:D

I know they're sheeple friendly in this day and age but asfixed blades go, I'd prefer a smatchet or a Kukuri or one of these

http://www.heinnie.com/lofty_wiseman/LOF-01.jpg

[Kaylee]

I guess I am the lone dissenter on the whole mora/helle/puuko thing.

I don't get it either. I mean, the blades look good (if some are a little skinny), but I can't get over a smooth wood, guardless grip on a woodlands "using" knife. It looks like it's just begging to open up your fingers. :confused:

[Boats]

A guardless knife is like C&L on a 1911A1--it only looks scary and unsafe to people who don't/won't use one.

Puukkos represent thousands of years of design evolution intended to be combined with proper technique.

Just as one would employ different methods to wield a katana as opposed to a rapier, the puukko is used differently from a knife with a guard.

First, it is a tool, and only a weapon of truly last resort. Most puukko wielders also carry an axe or a folding saw. Need a weapon? Use the axe or make a spear. One does not stab with a puukko.

The puukko is designed to use a draw cut to lacerate hide, viscera, and cut meat, vegetables, etcetera--one just skips push cutting--draw, lift, draw, lift, so on. On wood, one uses a perpendicular draw cut as when whittling. If one requires penetration of something, note the generously large flat on the pommel, one literally pushes the knife with the palm into whatever is to be cut and then the knife is drawn back.

I still have and use knives with guards, but with experience I have found that guards are only necessary for stabbing. How often do you stab something?

[Kaylee]

I'm not talking about using it as a weapon.

I'm talking about push-cuts, boring holes, that kind of thing. Sure you can adapt by wrapping your pinky under the grip as a "stop" of sorts, but really.. why? A simple one-side only guard gives you a heck of a lot more room for error, and the only thing you lose is the ability to use a full-length sheath.

To me that guardless pattern is more like the "safety trigger" on a Glock. Sure you should be able avoid any problems by just keeping your finger off the bangswitch, but people being people and the world being imperfect, it's nice to have a little extra margin of safety when things don't go smooth.

Hence rbm's pieces look much better to me for a knife in that class.

[hso]

The Krein's look like FMA inspired fighters instead of utility knives.

Kaylee, I hear what you're saying about guards. There are Moras with small guards also. Not many and not considered traditional, but they are available.http://ragweedforge.com/840.jpgg Finger choils serve the same purpose as a guard without as much standoff from the edge.

[mattw]

Now that I think about it I have never cut myself with a knife in a way that could have been prevented by a guard. I guess I don't use my knives hard enough? I do think having a guard provides the user with a little more confidence in his knife handling, but at a trade off. Knives with guards don't look good to me.

[Boats]

Well, to each his or her own. I don't really like analogizing knives to firearms because they are different beasts, but in knives a dangerous design is not going to survive anywhere near as long as the puukko pattern has.

I do like "Keep your fingers off the blade and nothing bad will happen.":D

I would only ask that before the design is dismissed out of hand (pun intended) get a cheap one or borrow an example and put it through its paces.

I bought my first one on a lark, as an experiment, since I didn't get what the design was all about either. All I really have to say about it since is that these Scandinavian folks knew what they were up to building a knife style for one of Earth's harshest environments.

The handles are secure because they fill the hand. If one buys a kit and puts the effort in, the handle is totally customized to one's grip, just as intended.

Using the correct techniques with it serves to always keep the fingers comfortably away from the blade.

Finally, in some situations, a guard is a liability. The most frequent one I have encountered is in gutting a sizeable elk. Making a blind cut deep inside an animal, there is nothing about the puukko that gets hung up in that environment. Since one is drawing the knife back to one's self, the flairing towards the distant end of the pommel ensures one will not lose grip hauling the knife back out of the carcass. Additionally, the usual semi-convexed edge lends itself to making a generously dimensioned cut that causes the flaps to peel away from one another so the blade doesn't get hung up. The blade grind is also ridiculously easy to field sharpen as the proper sharpening angle is permanently ground into each side, meeting at a zero degree edge which is razor sharp.

What else can I say? I am a convert. Not to the exclusion of all other outdoors blades, but the puukkos especially come along when I want to keep my gloves on.

[Dionysusigma]

Well, I'd have to go with a portable combination of three, if I know I'm going into hostile conditions (meaning forbidding environments I'm unfamiliar with).

1) My Buck 119. Can stab nasty things with it, and it looks cool. Plus, it's got the psycological advantage... I've had it forever, and have used it a lot, so I know what it can and can't do.

2) My classic Leatherman. Been through hell and back. Used literally every day for 10 years.

3) Cold Steel Kukri machete. I've used this to dig/cut cars out of snow/ice drifts, cut down small (6" diameter) trees in blowing snowstorms to use as traction, split firewood, and a ton of other stuff. Holds an edge pretty dang well for a machete.

All three are relatively inexpensive. If I had to go with only one of them, I'd have to know what sort of "survival" was needed. Urban? Leatherman, no question. Mountains? Kukri. Desert? Kukri and/or Buck. Plains? Buck. Coastal area? Buck (it's stainless). Forest? Kukri and/or Buck.

It all just depends. :)

[Kaylee]

fighters? What makes them so, other than the false edge? Or is that it?

Dionysusigma - I think I like your approach. :)

[Skofnung]

What else can I say? I am a convert. Not to the exclusion of all other outdoors blades,

That's pretty much where I stand as well.

Now that I think about it I have never cut myself with a knife in a way that could have been prevented by a guard.

Me neither. I've cut myself more times than I care to remember, but I've never "ridden up the blade."

rbmcmjr, that "Big Hand Scandi" looks awesome.

[SpookyPistolero]

I just got my order or Moras from Ragweedforge.com and felt like it would be worth contributing to the thread.

Holy cow, these knives are great! I've got the green #760MG (the Swedish military one), the #780 (triflex craftsman) and the #510 (basic red, hard handled one). First of all, he got this order to me rediculously quickly. Ragweed's service is has an amazing reputation, that I see is quite fitting.

The 700 series both have the same full handle with the finger guard, but the blade is certainly noticeably thicker on the triflex. I think this it's the blade I'll test out first on my next treck.

All the blades are quite light but quite strong. There is some flex in the thinner two blades if you put what I would call 'excessive' force against them. Each blade also came razor sharp. Like shaving sharp. These are quite certainly the sharpest knives I've owned. Wicked.

The blade profile on all of them is very simple and to the point (:D ). They scream 'unpretentious utility'.

The 510 feels great in the hand, and the swell before the balde is enough to make up for the lack of a full guard. I wouldn't feel at all worried about slicing my hand open with this one. For some reason, this one might be my favorite. The way it handles is quite endearing.

The sheaths on the 700 series knives are lacking, to be blunt. I may look into kydex options there. I actually like the kydex on the 510, it's fairly simple and sleak.

I've only done some playing around the house with these blades, and no outdoors work (other than some carving), but would not hesitate to reccomend them. I will certainly be buying more in the not-so-distant future.

At the price, there's no good excuse not to own several!

[hso]

fighters? What makes them so, other than the false edge? Or is that it?

It's several things about the Kreins that remind me of FMA influence fighters. The guard is like I've seen on lots of FMA fighters. The tips. But mostly it's the angle of the blade wrt the handle. Most "working" blades will have either a relatively flat angle formed between handle and blade or will be slightly (or very) upswept. The blades angle down in these putting the handle and guard in the way of the "work". Look at your knife. Even with it's complex shape there's nothing that gets in the way of the blade being used on a flat surface. OTOH this is a very good angle for knives used in FMA and SE Asian styles. Without asking Tom I won't know for sure.

[Frandy]

Excellent thread here - learned a lot from so many who know far more than I do. Far more...

Until recently, I thought it would be the Marble Fieldcrest I inherited from my father. It's at least from the 1940s. (pic 1).

http://homepage.mac.com/franman/.Pictures/Knives/Marble_Fieldcraft_stacked_leather_640.jpg

I now carry this Dave Vail drop point when out in the woods, along with a modest Gerber AR 3 folder with serrated edge in my pocket.

http://homepage.mac.com/franman/.Pictures/Knives/Vail_SambarStag_May2006_800.jpg

In the case of a survival knife, I really thought this 5" blade would be the ticket, but you guys have me questioning that for all the reasons mentioned in these posts. I'd still rather have it with me than not, but I think of the knives I own, the Fieldcrest or drop point might be better choices after all.

http://homepage.mac.com/franman/.Pictures/Knives/Vail_Slant_Guard_Micarta_Back_Canvas_w_1911_2_640.jpg

[hso]

That Marbles is beautiful! Great knife from a great company back when knives were made to be used. There's nothing wrong with a 5" field knife if it fits you. It's just getting into the upper reagions of length for a woods utility piece (unless you can palm a basketball like a couple of my friends).

[Frandy]

Me palm a basketball? I'm 5' 6" and shrinking. The Marble is looking more and more right all the time. :D

[FXR]

Boats: Thanks for the discussion about the puukko knives. I've been looking at them and wondering about the rationale behind the design. You made some good points I hadn't thought of, so I suppose now I'll have to buy one and try it out! Thanks again for the info...
K

[Sharps-shooter]

I have lots of knives, and many that are very dear to me. If i were to go off into the woods for an extended period of time and were going to just take one with me, I would take my old case XX "1836" bowie knife. It's heavy enough to work like a hatchet, and long and sharp enough to do just about anything you want it to. I think of it as the illegitimate child of a hatchet and a saber. It's the knife I took with me into the woods of montana for a couple months in fall/winter of '97.

Earlier that year, I spent a few weeks in arctic lappland. The knife I had with me there was a finnish knife, looked like the ones pictured above from boats' post, and had no guard. It felt really nice in my hand, and the handle is made of knice wood, burl birch, but I wouldn't have wanted to use it for thrusting. Great for butchering a reindeer or filleting a fish, though.

[Bill_G]

i would take my cold steel master hunter in Carbon V. and also my Vic swiss tool spirit.

oh...can't forget my spyderco Delica in my pocket!

[tank mechanic]

Go to the knife shop. the one that screams "hey you!" and is in your price range is the one to go with.

[Nematocyst]

... but I'll weigh in anyway.

I'm one of those weirdos :uhoh:
that thinks there's no such thing as
"the all round survival knife".

So, I own 4, all of which will be
in my pack should I ever need to "survive":

* EDC: Benchmade Osborn
* Fixed blade: SOG Seal Pup elite
* SOG tool
* SAK (with toothpick)

Weight? We're talking ounces.
Space? What space?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=50801&d=1168235611

[22-rimfire]

My suggestion is a SOG Seal Pup Elite with a straight edge. I have one and it is my go to knife these days when I carry a fixed blade outdoors. Get a big 111 mm SAK and stick it in the little pouch on the sheath and you should be ready to go. The SAK can do the detail work and the accessories are often handy in a pinch.

[ScottZ]

I vote for anything by Bark River. My personal favorite is the Woodland for a small blade, but would definately go for the Gameskeeper for survival knife.

[Todesengel]

I'll take my Cold Steel Recon Scout for all around survival till i have the cash leftover for a strider.

[steeltiger]

for a tough jungle or woods knife the cold steel kukris are a good option but there awfully steep the machete version is around 25 as opposed to the 130 to 200 range and the scandinavion puko idea aint bad but a stout broad bladed foler from cold steel, crkt, or bench made would be a good choice whatever the small knife try practicing batoning it but remember that the manufacturer propably wont refund any broken knives

[Eleven Mike]

Gah! Use sentences! They are not optional!

[ndh87]

I can vouch for the SOG seal pup, i have one and use it for my SCUBA knife. works great, hold up to salt water well, and holds a d*mn good edge.

[hso]

Welcome to THR steeltiger! Where are you from and how'd you find us?

[Jeff]

I personally like the Chris Reeve Project 1 as the ultimate survival knife. Good compromise of big and small. If necessary, the Project could be used for chopping, something some smaller blades might not be able to do. And a larger knife can do anthing a smaller knife can do, it just might not do it quite as well.

Advantages of the Project:

-incredibly tough knife, being an integral hollow handled design, one of the toughest knives around
-easy to sharpen in the field (not hardened anywhere close to A2's max...which adds to its toughness)
-knife will NOT leave your hand, no matter what (in fact, you could prolly file through a steel bar with the handle)...too rough? maybe, but in a survival situation, who cares if you get blisters on your hand?
-hollow handle for storage
-hollow handle makes it easy for spear function
-no grips means no blood gets into knife and creates bacterial issues (easy to clean safely)
-superbly balanced
-superb finish
-it's a functional work of art

Yup, it's expensive, but you get what you pay for.

[Kaylee]

in a survival situation, who cares if you get blisters on your hand

I would think that's when you'd be most concerned about preventing injury wherever avoidable.

In daily life it's only a rather painful annoyance.

In the wilds it not only impedes the use of your hands, it also is a wonderful avenue for infection.

But your choice, your tradeoff. :)

[hso]

blisters lead to infection which limits your survival options

blisters lead to lots of pain that doesn't just go away it complicates all the other survival tasks that have to be done

so, yes, it's bad for the knife to be so poorly constructed that it causes blisters when used in a survival situation

[Jeff]

Don't agree. The aggressive checkering is a tradeoff b/w great comfort and an ABSOLUTE no-slip surface.

My blistering comment is a worst case scenario. And, of course, I'm not talking about weeping sores, but merely uncomfortable bumps-- something you might get while raking the leaves.

It's not a big deal. *shrugs*

Actually, you would be less likely to get blisters with a handle that is found on the Project because there would be very little if any friction. Friction causes blisters.

[SpookyPistolero]

I think checkering has it's place, but I don't think that's on a tool that will see heavy use if it's needed. If a knife is all you've got, you're already going to be 'pushing the edges' of what a knife is meant to be used for in the first place. Your body is going to be making up the difference there most of the time, and I'd prefer that be in sore muscles rather than lost skin.

I do think, at least so that you have an option, that this is another good reason to keep a good length of inner tube in your kit. You can have the aggressive checkering if you want it, then wrap the handle in the rubber if things get rough. Options are a good thing to have.

[Skofnung]

I’m on record in a previous thread stating that Chris Reeves’ “Survival Knives” look much more like fighters than wilderness survival knives, at least to me.

They are very well made blades no doubt, but there are designs that are better suited to fieldcraft than double guarded hollow handled spearpoints.

[K.L.O.sako]

i use the cold steel master tanto and i know alot of you guys dont like them but thats you. the steel is a dead tuff laminant, the blade has a graceful curve to it, i fell in love the first time i used it. it's six inch blade is enough for any job a knife needs to do, and in the campground, only about 2 inches of the blade's sheath hangs below my shirtail (so as not to scare the natives or the green peace hippies and such :p ) i know someone will have to slam this but thats my 2 cents

[Todesengel]

For what they cost, Cold Steel are good Knifes. I use my Recon Scout often for Chopping, cutting, BBQing and other fun stuff. Can't remember when i sharpened it the last time but the Edge is still razor sharp. I also love my Cold Steel Military Classic R1.

[Nematocyst]

I'm going all the way back to post 7.

That Hardin WSK (http://www.mtknives.com/wsk.html) is one of the most interesting knives I've seen in this thread.
I still like my SOG Seal Pup, but that WSK is an "interesting knife".

Problem is, it feels "interesting" in part because the design is so ... different.
(I like things, including sometimes tools, that are departures from normal.
Like the bumper sticker says, "Why be normal?" :rolleyes: )

Kaylee: would you be willing to offer a bit (or a lot) of explanation of why you bought that one?

What, exactly, does that one "do" (or allow you to do) that more traditioinal designs don't?

For example, I confess, I don't even understand what a "gut hook" is.

And what's the advantage of that rounded end, behind which is a significantly recessed straight edge.

I'm questioning neither the design nor your choice of it, but looking to understand it.

[hrgrisso]

I am not about to step into any discussion with other serious users and attempt to make an :confused: out of myself. For my hunting/camping trips I carry a tomahawk along with my knife. I have found that SOG' fusion is a great tool.

http://sogknives.com/store/F01T.html

I carry a Buck Alpha Hunter. It has it's uses but I find the tomahawk more useful. More strength, just as sharp... Just a thought.

[Nematocyst]

I have found that SOG' fusion is a great tool.As a mountaineer type that loves his Black Diamond ice ax (http://www.bdel.com/gear/raven.php),
I'll just say this about that SOG Fusion Tomahawk (http://sogknives.com/store/F01T.html).

Mikey likes it.

:D

<puts SOG Fusion Tomahawk on acquisition list> :uhoh:

[Kaylee]

Kaylee: would you be willing to offer a bit (or a lot) of explanation of why you bought that one?

What, exactly, does that one "do" (or allow you to do) that more traditioinal designs don't?

For example, I confess, I don't even understand what a "gut hook" is.

And what's the advantage of that rounded end, behind which is a significantly recessed straight edge.


Sure.

Basically, think of it less as a knife and more of a compact "Woodsman's Pal" kinda tool and will start to make more sense to you. It's essentially a knife-sized multitool designed for doing basic (woodlands) bush tasks. Its design is necessarily a compromise. It don't clean a critter as well as a smaller hunting knife, it won't chop as well as a handaxe, etc... but it will do all those tasks reasonably well, and it can be carried easily.

The rounded edge in the front is a chopping (and scraping) surface - works very well. The recessed edge behind it is at a steeper angle, and is more of a cutting than chopping blade. Also serves as a drawshave if you cover the notching "saw" surface.

For more info, do a search on bladeforums.com for "WSK" - lots and lots of folks chatting about it over the last few years.

Mikey -- next time I'm down there, I'll bring it for you to play with. :)

-K

[LaP]

I like the Buck Short NightHawk. Five inch blade, partial serration, firm grip, thick blade, AND only $50. Works for me.

[SeanSw]

I would probably take a $10 Mora and a $25 Cold Steel hawk and call it a day. I don't mind being a performance junkie now and then but you can buy a sack of Moras for less than the cost of most high-end production knives and still have enough leftover to buy a small axe, which would be a hundred times more useful in the wild.

One of my first wood carving knives was a $10 plastic handled fillet knife from Wal-Mart. I cut the blade in half and cut the integral finger guard off for whittling. I didn't find out until later that it was the same #549 knife that Ragnar sells. Those are tough little knives!

[Nematocyst]

Kaylee, thanks. Very interesting tool. I get it:
less of a knife, more like a Woodsman's Pal (http://casanovasadventures.com/catalog/knife/p990.htm).

(... which is yet another interesting tool,
now added to my acquisition list for camp.
Dang! I gotta quit reading this forum :banghead: ).

(Had to look up "drawshave (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+drawshave+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)"; :cool: word.)

I like multi-tools (http://sogknives.com/store/B63.html) and multi-passes (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/annel13/multi-pass.jpg). :D

I can't quite get the scale of the wsk, and haven't seen a specs chart for it yet.
What's its (approximate is OK) overall length and weight?

And I'm still trying to visualize this part from here (http://www.mtknives.com/wsk.html): "The teeth are also formed in a way that they can double as wire cutters. The hole in the blade is a leverage hole for wire cutting and for snapping bone etc..." Snapping bone I can visualize, but "wire cutting"? :confused:

Mikey -- next time I'm down there, I'll bring it for you to play with.:) Hey, we should have an outdoor tool rally someday. A bunch of us could meet in a forest and bring tools;
sort of a survival show and tell. :) (Guess we'd need to bring bandaids, huh? :uhoh: )

[p35]

Another I carry a lot is the Schrade Imperial Drop Point Hunter. http://smkw.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?Mode=Brand&Brand=96&CatalogName=&PriceStart=&PriceEnd=&Feature=&SearchText=&list=50&range=1&order=Default&SKU=SCAP12B . Great handle shape, light, nice nylon sheath, handy blade shape. Certainly not fancy, but a good working knife.

[steeltiger]

What about a ghromans, or cold steels new ganadian belt knife, looks like it would do well not to steep either:confused:

[steeltiger]

Once again ive neglected to remember that the cold steel special forces shovel makes a great hachet ( better hachet than shovel ), back up shovel, paddel, and with a grinder it can be sharpened to a fair edge. To top it all of its not bad at combat. As a shovel of such short stature its great for jeep cary ( I have a 92 yj wrangler / dads got a 77 cj7 / and mums got a new liberty ) if you happen to get stuck it can help alot.
It,l do just about anything alright but, nothing tremendously well.

Oh thanks for the welcome, just now noticed the one on this thread( inattentitive arent I ):uhoh:

[snow]

Sog Field pup or Yukon belt knife by knife of alaska

[borrowedtime69]

i recently purchased a Geber LMF II:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/478619.JPG

it has every thing i need, a short ,strong blade with a good belly for skinning, a serrated edge, electrically isolated, vibration dampening handle, a heavy pommel with a point, and a hammer surface. the sheath has a built in sharpener, is very tough, and has a multitude of ways to carry it.

the extra safety blade that cuts cordage and webbing (seatbelts) isnt very useful so i dont carry it.

along with that knife i can carry a Gerber folding saw and a Gerber backpack hatchet. if im out for a longer period of time, i also have a Gerber folding NATO shovel.

i also have a CRK&T folding tanto blade M16-12Z for every day carry. i have either a Camillus Army jackknife or a swiss army knife.

mostly i mix and match what i carry to fit the occassion.

oh, i also have a Cold Steel ODA that i used to carry, but it didnt have the heft of the gerber so i switched. i also hated the epoxy coating on it so i stripped it and cold blued it.

thanks - Eric

[bigjim]

Not sure I would want to limit myself to one knife. If I did it might be a Busse Steal heart with a thinned edge.

I would rather have two knives

Busse BM for shopping and shealter building and fire building
A mid sized thinned and convexed Busse for camp chores

Tough steal, very rust resistant. Easy to sharpen

If I was on the move a Bark River mini axe and a Small Busse.

[Nasty Jack]

Jeez . . . I have a footlocker full of edged whatevers. For "all round" . . . I'd look at reasonable price and durable. Local Army PX sells the Navy Pilot Survival Knife. Nothing "special" but about $30 and durable as hell. Camillus. Camillus has had this contract for decades.



http://arms2armor.com/Knives/pilot.jpg

I have a Ka-Bar . . . but it's "special" and so won't get "deployed."

There's the current military "big nasty" -- it's a survival/bayonet with a serrated edge and hooks up with the sheath to make a wire cutter . . . foot long and weighs about three pounds. Macho as hell, but the Navy Pilot seems to cover all the bases at a reasonable cost.

[telkontar]

Extremely educational. Thanks. I understand the tradeoffs far more accurately now.
Put me in the multi-knife camp (as if you experienced folk would care), but if limited to a single blade in the woods I'd probably take my K-bar. (The Wave and 3" Schrade from my Boy Scout days would stay at home.)
Part of the K-bar's allure is that it can almost be a machete. Any thoughts on comparing quality and hardiness of an Ontario machete against the Woodsman's Pal (and any others). Obviously not a precision tool, but hacking sagebrush and branches is vigorous work.

[steeltiger]

Built one today, four and a half inch saw blade steel (kept the sawback) drop point blade five inch oak handle, just big enough to get the job done (should of made it bigger), bout like a pilot survival with a birds beak pommel and half tang, just right for a small pack carry:neener:

[snow]

I don't know if you don't know it or not but you can get the seal pup elite without the serrations. I have one and man is it nice. Fits my hand nicely, blade lenth just about right and weight is good without being to heavy. I can skin, constuct shelters or do food prep with this knife just fine. The slight guard and choil also enables me to use this knife defensively without a lot of worry about my own hands being cut. The only drawback is the AUS 8 Steel, they should make a version in high carbon or D2. This knife would then be well IMO perrrrfect.

[Smith357]

A rugged, versatile, inexpensive, and easily replaceable, knife, hammer, shovel.

[SniperStraz]

^^^Amen to that^^^
http://www.whitetailproducts.com/images/11211.jpg
Like the 1911, the Ka Bar has been proven in many conflicts time and time again. It has been the #1 on the USMC's list of knives and has served its purpose well.

[Nematocyst]

Or in this case, I guess the expression should be cuttity cut.

I've spent the whole day - maybe eight hours or so, exploring all-purpose/survival knives & tomahawks here and on blade forum.

Finally, I found myself coming back into this thread, and have reread the entire thing, start to finish.

With each post, I found myself asking, how well does this knife meet Mattw's orginal specification:

...a one-knife-fits-all survival/utility knifeI've realized that there must be different versions of the uses for an all round survival knife.

When I think of "all round survival", I think of everything from cutting cord to cutting food to skinning game and cleaning fish to building debris huts to ...yes, SD from skanky humans. How can one knife do all that?

Part of my day was spent reading M40's Wilderness Survival Skills (http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Survival.htm). He recommends a Becker Brute (http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Ghurka/Becker%20Brute.htm) with a 9" blade (which, as far as I can tell, is no longer being made; most sites list it as "discontinued").

Now, his motivation is that it can be used to chop wood and build a shelter with it.

From my perspective, a 9" blade is just too big for a single knife. I wouldn't want to skin a rabbit with one. But I don't think that a 4 or 5" blade (like Moras) recommended by some in this thread would be big enough for chopping wood for shelter building (even though it would excel for skinning game or making tools).

So, I'm either forced to conclude that:

1) if there was to be one and only one knife in the kit, a 6 or 7" blade would be the smallest that could effectively be used to cut wood with for fires and shelter construction.

2) but in reality, it may be foolish to try to do everything survival with one blade. Aren't we really being unrealistic with the expectation? Shouldn't we consider one shorter fixed blade (say, 4 to 6" blade) for general cutting duties, and a backpacking hatchet, machete or tomahawk for wood cutting and shelter building?

It occurred to me that on page one, someone - especially Matt - should have been asked to list all the tasks that this knife is supposed to be used for.

So, I'm doing that now. I'd enjoy reading each person's detailed list of what a survival knife is supposed to accomplish for them in a "survival" situation - all their cutting needs - and why they think their proposed knives are up to the task.

It also occurs to me that some may be thinking, "I'm going to have a tarp and won't have to build a debris shelter", where as others are not. That's going to influence what "survival knife" you carry.

So, we should state our assumptions about what other gear (e.g., tarps) we'll have with us in the situation.

Nem

[Dr.Rob]

Overall 'surivival use' Mc Guyver wasn't wrong.

I've done more with a Swiss army knife than I ever accomplished with a bigger blade, with a few exceptions. Some folks prefer a multi-tool.

I use the 'hunter' model that has a saw blade... I can tell you from experience you can certainly gut, split bones and skin an antelope with nothing but a Swiss army knife. I have made shelter using nothing but a Swiss army knife. Many of the new models have locking and serrated blades that are WICKED sharp. (Note that over time they do dull a bit and a 'specialty' sharpener is required--but what do you want in a $30 knife? The serrated blades are a little thinner than the old single edge.) You might actually need tweezers, a can opener and a screwdriver. I've had little use for the awl, but the nail file is a great striking surface for flint n steel. the scissors are 'gimmicky' until you need to cut moleskin precisely. The scissors springs give up after 10 years of hard use. Stainless means it won't rust in your pocket, or before you make it home from where ever you are.

You need a big knife for skinning a big animal. Specialty blades like Wyoming knives are slick, but they dull quickly. A good 3-5 inch blade with plenty of belly is the perfect skinner. Buck makes some nice ones. Cold Steel's Bushman is a no-frills (you might wanna wrap the handle with leather) knife that's made for that very purpose, and if you feel the need, it's designed to be made into a spear.

Another use for a big knife is prepping boughs for a shelter or other such 'grunt work' you wish you had a machete or hatchet for. There's no 'best' answer for this, rather how much weight you are willing to carry. A heavy knife is more useful than a 'light' one, some military blades have wire cutters built in (a neat feature) or nail pullers etc. These big knives are lousy for stuff like cleaning a squirrel or bird (animal you might be able to catch in a survival situation). If you go trekking in dense jungle-like forest with vines, etc a lightwieght machete might make a lot more sense than a K-bar, if you have a Swiss in your pocket.

Thing is, a Swiss army slips in your pocket and is with you ALWAYS --no matter what... in the car, the office, etc, not just 'on the trail.' I wish they made one with a glass breaker feature (the new serrated blades can cut a seatbelt).

When I go backpacking I've always got a Swiss, maybe a larger knife. Usually a small shovel (someone mentioned the Spetsnatz shovel) for diggin a latrine etc.

When I go hunting I'm usually carrying 3 knives: a Cold Steel Tanto (laugh if you want I bought this knife 20 some years ago for use as a hunter, and its a great skinning knife), a wyoming knife (unzipping, skinning the 'knuckles', detail work) and a Swiss.

Day hike, likely just a Swiss. I have a nice sized 'survival' bag that goes on all 3, a knife is a small part of that kit.

I like the multitool idea, but mainly for the usefulness of the pliers.

[hso]

Yup, no one knife does it all. Too big and no delicate work is doable. Too small and no chopping brute force work comes easy.

Define your survival situation. Pick your tools to fit. A small knife can be batoned and "chop" like a much larger knife. http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

[Nematocyst]

Dr.Rob, a most excellent essay. Enjoyed reading it.
Lays out your needs for a survival knife(s) knicely. {Intentional typo.}

Day hike, likely just a Swiss.Knowing myself as well as I do,
I do not - or am unable to - distinguish between "day hike" and "2-day hike".

I've lost count of the number of times in my life where I've set out on a "day hike",
but couldn't stop walking. :uhoh:

"Just one more peak {ridge, switch back, overlook}',
I'd say to myself, "then back to base camp."

Right. Too many times, got back well after dark,
having to walk with a flashlight for part of it.
A couple of times, I was lucky to get back that night at all,
and for all practical purposes should have just built a camp and stayed put.
(Certainly wanted to; those spaces were beautiful.)

After years of that, I just started automatically
carrying overnight gear in a "day-and-a-half pack",
including enough layers for warm and dry on
an unexpectedly cold, wet night,
and enough easy food for the next day.

And in my kit, that dictates my SAK and/or multi-tool
plus a larger fixed blade (now, an SPE).

Soon to come, I'll add a tomahawk.
Most likely candidate right now:
a 14" Hays Montana Hunter hammer poll. (http://www.haysknivesmontana.com/monthunter.html)

These days, kit also contains a .357 mag, but that's a different thread.

I'll also be upgrading the emergency kit soon using a modified version of M40's list.
_______

Dr.Hso, I've downloaded that essay on batoning.
I've only scanned it so far, but I "get it".
Very impressive reading. Thanks for that.

Hmmm. I'm beginning to see
a new class for my students:
Survival 101.

Ummm, this could be fun ...

Dr.Nem

[Todesengel]

+1 for the swiss army knife...mine is almost always with me.

[chad1043]

Unless you go to the airport... Man, I bet they are making a lot of money on ebay...

[Nematocyst]

Unless you go to the airportYet another reason that I haven't flown in nearly a decade, and will not for the next decade.

I refuse to fly on philosophical grounds having to do with
rude treatment by gate agents, ticket agents, flight attendants, lost baggage and the like.
(Let alone being stuck on a plane on the tarmac for hours and not let off.)

Why do people put up with such abuse and disrespect?

If I can't drive, train, walk, or bike there, I don't need to go.

Hey, I live in one of the most beautiful places on Earth. Why travel elsewhere?

Oh, sorry ... the topic is all round survival knives.

My two top candidates now a days:

SOG Seal Pup Elite (top pick)
KaBar fighting knife (a little big for all round, but feels good)

[coelacanth]

definitely the KaBar. I have used one constantly as a camp knife for many years and I have yet to find its equal for anywhere near the price. That said, I also own and use several puuko and any number of folding knives as auxiliary blades that complement rather than replace the KaBar in most cases. Buy the KaBar - take it camping for a season and develop your own opinion. My camp box contains the KaBar, a cruiser axe, a folding saw and several other items I wouldn't want to be caught in the woods without so I guess I line up with the folks who think there is no "perfect" knife for your application. If you like the general feel of the KaBar, allow me to suggest a few home modifications you can make: 1) Cut the top off the guard with a hacksaw. Its generally useless unless you're in a knife fight. 2) Sand the leather handle into a more oval shape. It works better and allows you to index the knife in your hand a little easier. Refinish it with beeswax and a little neatsfoot oil. 3) Sharpen the swedge - you'll find it uncommonly handy around camp. 4) Reinforce the stock sheath or ditch it and get a better one. You don't want to take a fall with a fixed blade knife in a flimsy sheath. Good luck and good hunting.

[Nematocyst]

Cut the top off the guard with a hacksaw. Its generally useless unless you're in a knife fight. I bought a Kabar fighting knife because I found it on sale. Seemed similar enough to the original.

In retrospect, I'd have liked a serrated section for cutting limbs.

But I like your idea of removing the top guard.

And recommendations for a different sheath are welcome.

I need a new sheath for the Seal Pup, too.
(The Kydex that it came with bit the dust; belt attachment broke.
Hated it anyway; couldn't stand the SOG letters in gold.)

Looking at Survival Sheaths (http://www.survivalsheath.com/main/home.htm), but open to suggestions.

[rugerfreak]

My sister is a flight attendant for AA--and even though I can get free tickets---I still refuse to fly and haven't been on a plane since '91.

To the original question---a Benchmade 520----its a stout knife and the one I always have on me---so in a survival situation---it would most likely be the knife I have.

[GRB]

The Ka-Bar is my choice of all the knives I own.

[Blade_Zero]

The puukko style does seem to be the ultimate survival knife, something that could work in a pinch though, would be the CRKT AG STING, it has several features compatible with the mission of a survival knife,
small fixed blade,
shock/impact resistant carbon steel,
double edged, one of which could be dulled for utilitarian duties, blades can slip,
it's also affordable, realistically you're probably going to need more than one survival knife & survival kit, throwzini has a buy four get one free offer.

http://www.throwzini.com/crkt-sting.html

It may not be optimal for precision carving but sculpting a spoon, fork or fishing hook wouldn't be my highest priority in a survival situation anyway.

For cutting trees and branches wouldn't a wire saw (http://www.bestglide.com/Wire_Saw_Info.html) substitute for an axe or machete?

[hso]

Lots of folks like the "KaBar", (and here some of you will consider me to speak blasphemy) but I find the blade too long for most uses, the useless upper guard prevents you from choking up on the blade to use for small choirs and the choil is too small for anyone with hands of normal size.

The USMC Fighting Knife was inspired by the Marbles Ideal, which had none of the above flaws, and was intended as a combat knife. That lead to compromises that reduce it's utility as a camp knife so it could better serve as a combat knife.

[GunTech]

The best all around survival knife is the one that you will always have with you, because you can't predict when you will be in a survival situation. My vote goes for a stout folder, or beter yet, a leatherman type of knife (Ask Wes Stroud).

If I knew I was going to be in a surtvival situtation, and didn;t have to worry about carry, I'd pick a medium sized blade - big enough to chop if necessay, small enough for fine work. I am a fan of Chris Reeve's survival knives, and you can turn them into a portable survival kit. As they are one piece knives, you don;t have the stregth issues that you do with other hollow handle knives.

http://www.chrisreeve.com/shadow001001.jpg

[james_bond]

Swamp Rat Howling Rat
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/james_bond827/P8060310.jpg

[MCgunner]

I carry a Buck multi-tool as a "survival" tool. The blade is the best I've found on a multi-tool. I don't think I'll ever have to "survive" with just the multi-tool, always have an accurate handgun on me if nothing else, but you need a knife in the field and the tools can come in handy, too.

[hopkin]

HSO: Lots of folks like the "KaBar", (and here some of you will consider me to speak blasphemy) but I find the blade too long for most uses, the useless upper guard prevents you from choking up on the blade to use for small choirs and the choil is too small for anyone with hands of normal size.

You beat me to it. I don't rate the Ka-bar as a survival knife because it's awkwardly large for the vast majority of tasks. It's a fighting knife that's proven adequate for the ungodly abuse armed forces put their knives through. It's still second rate as a bushcraft knife or general utility knife.

I'm becoming a broken record in recommending the Fallkniven S1. Long enough to baton through wood, tough enough to withstand creative use on metal & plastic containers and still compact enough for the 1001 fiddly little tasks done to survive. It's a pointy sharp thing so will do fine as a fighting knife, if needed.

[jahwarrior]

don't know if it was mentioned yet, but how about the CS Bushman? it's not too big, is one piece, easy to sharpen, can be used as a spear, can store stuff in the handle, and is not too pricey.

[Lucky Strike]

http://www.equipped.com/GRAPHICS/rsk_mk1_combo_03-300w.jpg


I've got a Doug Ritter Griptillian. Love the blade shape on it. It's got the axis lock which is super strong IMO and i'd have no concerns batoning with it. They also make it in fixed blade though.

[Baba Louie]

Oh, I kinda like the new Baby KaBar... even tho I use my old big un when I go camping/huntin, I also have a few other folding types along as well. But that's not survivin' that's just campin.

But the little KaBar... just about right really. If you like KaBars that is.

[kufitar]

For me it would a Scandi knife, no question about it! Well balanced, light to carry with you, single bevel knives that holds the edge good, but are easy to sharpen when have to... These type of combo would be my choice!

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l135/cloudberrymarket/woodsknife/tupla4.jpg

[bannockburn]

http://http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/buckeroobanzai/DSC02490.jpghttp://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/buckeroobanzai/DSC02490.jpgIf I had to choose between these three, it would probably be the S&W Survival Knife. You can store a few fish hooks, line, matches, etc., in the hollow handle;the blade is about the right length for all around use, (i.e. not too long, not too short); and has enough heft to it that it can do the heavier chopping chores as well. The dimensions are: weight-10 oz., blade-5.5 inches, overall length-10 inches. The blade is a modified 440 Stainless and is of quarter inch stock; the hollow handle portion is brass; and the handle material is a specially laminated wood called, what else, but Wessonwood. I've always thought of it as being a somewhat unique knife, in that it's like a hybrid; a well designed and custom built knife, from a factory.