[JoseM]

Yup...my own older sister (37) said this to me this past weekend when I was showing her a lady smith & wesson online. She was advised to get a pistol to protect herself from her seperated husband (I don't think he'd go off on her, but she was looking and I'll never talk someone out of owning a pistol;)).

I didn't know what to say when she said this... I just kinda let it go away and kept showing her nice pistols and stopped talking about calibers (didn't show her any 22's or target pistols...kept with the 38's and higher).

But she has some police friends up in VA that'll be taking her to the range, so I have confidence that'll she'll get some good training, plus she's going to take the CCW course.

Anyway, it always shocks you when someone close to you says something dumb...just passing it along cause I thought it was something worth sharing.

[Manedwolf]

Someone who believes that should NOT be carrying a pistol. If they're not willing to shoot simply at an attacker's center of mass to stop them, with the full understanding that it might kill them, then they ARE a candidate for the "bad guy will take it away and use it on you" cliche.

That can only happen if someone is hesitant or cringing with it once drawn, in which case the BG will likely slap it out of their hands.

Either send them to a defensive course, or buy them a Taser.

[velojym]

"Phaser set to stun":rolleyes:

[Vern Humphrey]

I hope she realizes that if it becomes known she said that, she could wind up in prison if she uses a gun.

Firing a shot -- even if it misses -- is legally using deadly force. To say, "I was only trying to injure him" is an admission you used deadly force when it wasn't necessary.

[Eyesac]

Jeeze guys, I wouldn't give up on her yet. Send her to training and give her a better understanding of the threat and how she must deal with it. It takes time for a gal to prepare herself to kill... For us guys it's very logical to meet deadly force with deadly force, but chicks don't think the same as us. Education is the key in this situation IMHO.

[Wiley]

Jose,

You can tell the lady that no one who has a gun for defense wants to kill or even injure anyone. What we want to do is stop a threat.

But, she must be willing to pull the trigger if necessary. And understand that the attacker is responsible for their own injury or death.

[shadowalker]

It isn't just girls that don't understand what it takes to stop a threat that justifies shooting. There are lots of people with less lethal or bird shot loaded in shotguns or planning on taking a leg or arm shot with a handgun.

It probably is just an education problem, she isn't aware of the fallacy of shooting to wound or warn. It makes sense to the average person to avoid killing someone if possible. Hopefully she does seek some training or someone explains to her the reasons we shoot for center mass.

Statistics that show how long a person can continue to function enough to kill you are good, so is explaining the likely distance of an attacker is short enough to require definitive resolution to a threat. She also has to get to the point where she can accept the person committing the crime choose to put himself in that situation and his safety isn't her responsibility.

Only through education will people realize there are good reasons to shoot for center mass and an uncontrolled desire to kill someone isn't one of them.

[MrDig]

I had a similar incident some time ago, a female freind was asking about getting a pistol as someone tried to Kick her door in.
When I asked if she was willing to shoot and kill someone, I was told that I was "Spewing Macho Bull$%#t" by another man involved in the conversation.
Why would you Point a gun at another person if you were unwilling to kill them I asked.
"Just to wound, and then call the Police, you don't have to kill them." was the answer. I rolled my eyes and told the woman she needed to think about what I said, and call me if she still wanted to buy a gun, I would help.
The only thing more constant than Entropy, is Human Stupidity

JoseM, I am not implying your sister is stupid and I know it sounded that way as I read this now.
I hope she gets to the range a lot and comes to realize that shooting to wound is the last thing recommended by any knowledgable shooter in self defense situations.

[JohnL2]

Yup, the best thing is to get her in a self-defense class.
She needs to get in the mindframe of defending herself and knowing when
is the time to do it before handling any type of armament.

[LaEscopeta]

My 10-year-old daughter is looking over my shoulder as I read this thread. She says, “Give her a squirt gun filled with lemon juice.”

[Stevie-Ray]

For us guys it's very logical to meet deadly force with deadly force, but chicks don't think the same as us. Oh my Lord. You just may have just pushed the button.:uhoh:

[MartinBrody]

If she doesn't know much about guns it is an easy conclusion to make that since some guns use big bullets and some fire small bullets that the smaller ones aren't made to kill. She probably knows that even the small ones are deadly, just make that clear to her. Having done that, let her pick out something she likes, the quickest way to turn someone off is to start them on a 38 snubbie!

[redneckdan]

I'm finding this stuff out first hand. My fiancie had always been really leary with firearms. Most of my practice is IDPA style, using silhouetes. WE had a pretty good converstation last night and part of it was her intrests in my hobbies. Come to find out, the reason she really isn't into shooting at the moment is that she has not yet reasoned with the thought of killing an attacker. The whole silhouete thing was really turning her off to shooting. So we are going to start shooting in the bullseye league and hopefully she will take a liking to that.

[MrTwigg]

If she does'nt have the mindset to shoot to kill it's game over. She should build a safe room in her house instead.

The Lord helps those who help themselves, everyone else is on their own.

[ArfinGreebly]

You know, just reading this makes me pucker.

Some "Oleg-style" captions came to mind.
He doesn't care about your daughter's rights. You're worried about his?
Treat him with kindness and consideration; he's only here to rob and rape you.
If you only wound him, he will see the error of his ways. NOT.
Here comes the home invader; I hope I don't hurt him.
My wife (hostess www.noisyroom.net), on hearing this has added:
"I only want to nuke him a little bit."

There's a serious arrrgggghhh factor in this.

[Baba Louie]

I'll freely admit, I do not have the mindset to kill anyone. If someone uses lethal force against me, I have no problem using lethal force to stop his actions. If he dies from it... wow. He might come to the conclusion in the little time left, that he should not have started the whole shebang. Then again, he might not die... who cares? As long as he stops doing whatever it is he was doing and I don't get shot or die, I can live with that... I think.

But then again, maybe she needs one of those really cool, really large, really ugly rubber bullet (12 ga?) 4-shot super derringer things that (max?... or someone in Russia who's a mamber here) has recently posted herein. I know I'd love to get one for the cool factor alone.

[Hypnogator]

Tell her to get a 9mm. :neener: :neener: :neener: :evil:

[berettashotgun]

My wife would empty the magazine, reload/ re empty/pepper spray and then get the baton out and go to whipping the idiot.:evil: I'd say she was using embarassing sailors language during the beating, but ya'll would think unkindly of my little sweetums:neener:

[Geronimo45]

You could get her an airsoft gun. It meets the criteria - and it does hurt.

[Standing Wolf]

We all start somewhere.

[Punkermonkey]

I only want to be attacked by a homicidal maniac that hurts my feelings.

Seriously, It's great that she is willing to take the first step and arm herself. Leave it to the professionals to sell her on the rest.

[thexrayboy]

My 10-year-old daughter is looking over my shoulder as I read this thread. She says, “Give her a squirt gun filled with lemon juice.”


Very funny and not a half bad idea. Don't kill em, just make their eyes sting and run away.

[Bobo]

She just needs some education.

Have her go to PAX's site www.corneredcat.com and buy her the book "Armed and Female" by Paxton Quigley.

[crazed_ss]

Taser.

They cost 2-3 times more than guns though..

[The Canuck]

I agree with Bobo on this. She needs to go visit Cornered Cat and see what PAX has, err, "penned" there.

Also, she does not need the "killer" mindset, she just needs the "winning" mindset. She has to accept that if she should need to discharge a defensive firearm at an attacker that her only concern is to stop the attacker the best way she can, that being shoot into the center of mass until the attacker stops. She has to want to "win" the encounter and train to do just that. No need to plan to kill somebody, just stop them. If death of the attacker is the ultimate result then, sadly, that is how it was meant to be.

[chris in va]

I'll be glad when they come out with a weapon that simply stops an attacker in their tracks...and a 'justice' system that prosecutes accordingly.

Until then, we have lethal firearms.

[Kankujoe]

Give her a copy of this book.

Thank God I Had a Gun: True Accounts of Self-Defense by Chris Bird

It will get her thinking.

[mike101]

Quote:
"My 10-year-old daughter is looking over my shoulder as I read this thread. She says, “Give her a squirt gun filled with lemon juice.”

Lemon scented chlorine bleach works better.:D

Have your sister join us here. We'll learn her right.

[FieroCDSP]

Not to divert this on a non-lethal tangent, but Habanero pepper can be excessively hot (750,000 schovilles in some hot sauces. Also banned from police departments due to non-recoverable eye injuries, from what I understand). Get a mix of habanero hot sauce and vinegar in a sprayer. If they don't claw their own eyes out to stop the pain, they'll probably need glasses. My room-mate once tear-gassed himself while making habanero hot sauce. Took him two days to see clearly again.

Not that I'm advocating the option of blinding them for life if someone attacks you. By all means, shoot if you're armed and they are a threat. I just thought I'd put out a special recipe I like to whip up from time to time.:D

[Autolycus]

My sister attends college at Purdue in Indiana. Recently some sicko kidnapped a girl for the day and basically tortured her.

So she thought about getting a gun but then realized if she was attacked they would take it from her and use it against her.:rolleyes:

When I suggested pepper spray or a taser she said the same thing.:rolleyes:

I just wish she would carry something. I wanted to give her my P2000sk but she said she does not want a gun.:banghead:

Where do liberals come up with this kind of logic? Wouldnt every small female policewoman have her gun taken from her by a larger male criminal? I mean thats what the logic says? But since she is a policeman the magic in her shield protects her. (THis is no slam against police but against antis.)

Its frustrating to watch people you love just baa away with the rest of the sheep.

[M14fan]

And there are two STOP switches. One located approximately center mass (kind of small, may take multiple shots to locate properly) the other is located at the junction of the bridge of the nose and the forehead and is often marked by the meeting of the eyebrows. Shoot one of those and the threat stops. Severe injury and death may follow but are only side effects of correct use of the STOP buttons. :)

[mike101]

Like I said on another thread- "Stop the threat in the head". :evil:

[doncol]

If she doesn't know much about guns it is an easy conclusion to make that since some guns use big bullets and some fire small bullets that the smaller ones aren't made to kill. She probably knows that even the small ones are deadly, just make that clear to her. Having done that, let her pick out something she likes, the quickest way to turn someone off is to start them on a 38 snubbie!


My wifes first pistol was a .38 snubbie. Now she wants to buy every dang one that she can find. I have created an addict.

[Greybeard]

http://www.kimberamerica.com/press/2006-kimber-launches-pair-of-powerful-non-lethal-self-defense-tools.php

indicates that Kimber might just have a new product for such mindset(s). The "Guardian Angel" appears somewhat of an "OC derringer with a full choke" ...

I picked up one last week as another tool of "next-to-last resort". But, ' sure ain't dumping the real thing.

[Wesson Smith]

My CCW instructor (who was awesome) came right out of the gate in the first few minutes of the class and offered this up to the students:

(I paraphrase)

"If you are absolutely certain that you would be unable or unwilling to kill another human being threatening you or your family with serious bodily harm or death, please see me at the break and I'll be happy to issue you a refund for the class. This course is probably not for you"

[Sniper X]

I hear this question or discuss this topic in the classes I give from time to time. When I hear someone suggest wounding an agressor instead of killing the agressor I use the wounded animal analogy. I say invision you are on a hike thru the woods where there is a mountain lion and bear problem. You are carrying a handgun in case the animal problem confronts you. A black bear lumbers into your path and won;t go away so you shoot him in the leg because you "don;t want to kill the poor bear" he is enraged at the attack and eats you....you loose. This does work because an attacker bent on killing you is not ever incapacited when "shot to wound" he is just further enraged to kill instead of hurt.

[Cousin Mike]

Like I said on another thread- "Stop the threat in the head". :evil:

mike101, I must have laughed out loud for 10 minutes when I read that last night in the "Mouseguns..." thread... That might have to get "borrowed" for my Sig line - with you getting the credit, of course. :D

[mike101]

Thank you. I'd be honored. :D

[usa1993]

I think what she wants is the ability to stop an attacker without the whole liability, or guilt issue. I'm obviously just guessing. Guilt I could throw out the window because I would never sympathize with some idiot trying to harm my family or myself. Liability........now there's a conversation. The way the laws work in this country a man could be tried for shooting someone that was stabbing him in his own bed at 3 in the morning. Either way, if you only want to wound someone, a gun is certainly not the best choice. Kimber makes some highly rated less than lethal tools. (I know what you're thinking) I'm just throwing it out there.

[SoCalShooter]

Well, this is a pickle of an idea. if something should happen and hopefully it wont she should only be worried about stopping the attacker not whether he lives or dies, thats natures job to decide whether he lives or dies.

[gunsmith]

For us guys it's very logical to meet deadly force with deadly force, but chicks don't think the same as us.

I have met tons of guys that say you need to talk to the killer climbing thru yer window.

[GeorgiaGlocker]

Yeah, water pistol with pickle juice right dead in the eyes. :neener:

[Red Tornado]

Just load her up with FMJ's. Everybody knows it takes HP's to actually "kill" somebody. :rolleyes:
RT

[ArfinGreebly]

Well, yeah!

For all you married dudes, would you want to be on the wrong end of Mr. Browning's invention with your angry wife on the other?

When it all goes down, I'm gonna bet on the "DIE, YOU BASTARD!" response from the wimmenz.

Does anyone here remember the unfortunate burglar who challenged the lady of the house with "you don't have the [nerve] to pull the trigger?"

"Shoot to injure," indeed. In your dreams.

And if kidz are involved, wimmenz can get downright MEAN.

[Axman]

What's she want, a tranquilizer dart gun?

[CraigJS]

Buy her any gun she thinks is pretty. Then tell her when she throws it at the BG not to aim for their head... Only want to injure you know...

[JoseM]

Wow...a lot of responses. Two things..

The 10 year old girl with the "water gun with lemon juice", that made me laugh out loud! Thank you.

Second, I just remembered, when I showed her the black Ladies S&W, she said, "That is the cutest gun I've ever seen".

She really is missing the point, but if looks of a gun will get her foot in the door...then so be it. Like I said originally, she has several friends in uniform that would take her to shoot....she also wants to take the CCW class, so she will be getting some training. And like most older brothers/sisters...she won't listen to what her younger brother has to say.

[Zoogster]

Do not encourage someone that only wants to injure to be armed with a firearm. That would take excellent aim, and be illegal as in our wise legal system someone claiming they didn't feel in enough danger to warrant lethal force could be construed to be implying shooting was not necessary by a prosecutor.

Encouraging someone to be armed that is not likely to use or decide to use the firearm when confronted with lethal force will just have it taken away. At that point you will have hurt them more by insiting they be armed with a gun than allowing them to find something else they were more likely to use. The bad guy will now also be additionaly armed for further violence against them and/or against other individuals.
A firearm is only defense if someone is willing to use it, otherwise it is more of a liability.

[Razorwire]

Don't take this the wrong way, but some that is confronted with deadly violence and is not willing to do what they have to do, to survive, is a self- correcting problem. They won't.

But don't mind me. I once told a shift captain that if someone wanted to commit "suicide by cop" I was willing to accommodate them. Meaning that if they put me in the position of me or them, they lose.

I am a lonely person. Someone wants to send me to the hospital or morgue, I have no intention of going alone.

[Deanimator]

"Phaser set to stun"
"Mr. Worf, set Glocks to VERY heavy stun!" :D

[ABTOMAT]

In regard to protecting one's own life or that of a family member, I've often wondered what goes through the head of the person who says "I could never harm someone in any situation." I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, I'm really curious.

Although it's an ugly and overly simplistic way to look at things, at the most basic level you can boil it down to assigning value to a human life. You can choose between:

1. A normal person (or child/spouse/parent/etc thereof) probably trying to lead a productive and good life, who is surprised and attacked for no justifiable reason.

2. A person who sees no great problem in attempting to end the life of another without provocation, and likely has done similar things in the past and almost certainly will in the future.

Maybe I'm being arrogant, but if I ever get put in a completely unavoidable situation where that choice must be made, I will likely decide my existance has more merit than that the individual attempting to end mine.

[tnieto2004]

I hope she realizes that if it becomes known she said that, she could wind up in prison if she uses a gun.

Firing a shot -- even if it misses -- is legally using deadly force. To say, "I was only trying to injure him" is an admission you used deadly force when it wasn't necessary.


Self-defense .. NOT illegal to use deadly force .. its the people on the jury who decide what was necessary ..

[skinnyguy]

I don't want to have to kill or injure anybody myself. I dread the thought of having to draw down and fire on somebody. I dread the guilt of having shot another human, the courtrooms, the lawyers, the leftists who want to tell me I shouldn't have done that. Scares the fecal matter out of me.

I don't want to leave my daughters fatherless, I don't want to have either one of them have their dignity, health, or life stolen by some rectal orifice who thinks that we are all just toys for his amusement.

Somebody threatens me or mine, I WILL respond. I WILL stop them. I have my Ruger's 2 magazines with 15 rounds each, and my Bryco's 2 mags with 13. I have my Remington 700 with 5 rounds out an right next to the rifle in the case. I have a .22 rifle in the works. I have my teeth. I will use any and all to stop the threat, and that threat will either be injured or dead if it isn't smart enough to run.

I certainly hope your sister gets the education she needs and her CCW, and if it ever comes down to it, SHE is the one to stop the threat, regardless of how it was stopped, and that she uses the right tool for the job.

[jeepmor]

She sounds like someone that watches the Hollywood pictures a bit much and thinks that a person can easily shoot a gun out of an assailants hands is all. Get her some education.

I've had this very conversation with people before and I tell them a scenario like this. You want the threat to STOP. No one really wants to kill another person, at least not sane people like us. However, someone comes to punch your ticket out of this realm, you want them to STOP, shoot for COM and when they stop attacking, stop shooting. If they are dead, that is not your concern, your concern is that the threat to your life is stopped. If they were that worried about their health, they would not be committing a violent crime in the first place where they might get hurt. Don't worry about their safety, worry about yours. Hollywood is full of crap, don't beleive any of that sharpshooting crap, there are very few people in the world that can shoot that well, almost none. Reality makes for boring films is all.

Or, just get her a paint ball gun and crank the pressure up....way up.

[Pilgrim]

Where do liberals come up with this kind of logic?
From centuries of cultural bias. When the barbarians came to town to pillage and plunder, the pretty ones only got raped and turned into slaves. The rest were killed.

The liberals believe they will be pretty enough to survive.

Pilgrim

[Threeband]

When the barbarians came to town to pillage and plunder, the pretty ones only got raped and turned into slaves. The rest were killed.

The liberals believe they will be pretty enough to survive.

Pilgrim, that is VERY well said.

That explains a lot about the "appeasement" mindset, and the need to be seen as one of the nice progressives who "gets it."

Do you mind if I plagiarise it for a sig line?

[Elza]

berettashotgun: My wife would empty the magazine, reload/ re empty/pepper spray and then get the baton out and go to whipping the idiot.Does she have a sister? :D

[Sec421]

well, a paintball gun might do the trick, but if it is an actual issue. I do recommend the Taser. Not that :cuss: stungun crap. :D i don't even remember the pain of the Taser i just remember getting back up Hahaha <good times> As an overview one has to realize/rationalize why. The suspect/assailant has actually given her a choice. I have seen several example of "Defensive Wounds" to recommend the -"I only want a pistol that's made to injure someone ... not kill him"- mentality to be altered signifigantly. The assailant isn't even thinking on that level.