"Scout Scopes" or sumthin??


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SharpKnife
May 30, 2003, 06:24 PM
I saw a picture recently of an M16A2 with a scope mounted directly in front of the carrying handle. How does this work, and does it work well?
Also, confession time. I have done 99% of my shooting with iron sights, so I am not too familiar with scopes overall. If someone could explain the purpose and benefit of having a forward mounted scope like I have seen on M1As, Steyr Scouts and so forth I would be grateful.....this has never been explained to my satisfaction. (or perhaps understanding)
Also, mounting scopes on M16 carrying handles......good idea or bad? Flat-top better? Reasons?

Also, I am new here so I would like to send out a "yo" to everyone. I have been primarily shooting pistols because of the limited range facilities available to me. That changed a short while ago, and now I am trying to gain some skill with rifles.
I have a few rifles, but I shoot the Bushie every week.

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BevrFevr
May 30, 2003, 06:57 PM
I'm no expert on the scout approach but i'll take a stab at it.

Some advantages I can think of are:

Not having a scope and mount over the action gives total unencumbered access.

It may on some guns be closer to the bore axis allowing for a lower more natural cheek weld.

A red dot on anything is a godsend for quick close shots.

With convetional mounting small movements of the scope result in greater movement of the end of the barrel and greater difference in the impact of the bullet downrange. With the scope mounted well forward scope movements are more closely tied to the end of the barrel movement. This I think is what really is what makes scouts more responsive for qiuck shots.

Forward mounting also gives the ability to see peripherally better. To demonstrate: take an empty paper towel roll and hold it close to your dominant eye and aim at something. Then slowly move the roll away while still on target. You will see that you still have a sight picture but you can see all around your target area down range as well.

make any sense now?

-bevr

SharpKnife
May 30, 2003, 10:53 PM
How about the M16 with the scope in front of the carrying handle....any info on that? It appeared to still have its rear sight and definately still had the front sight.
Do you use the sights through the scope?? Is the scope just plain magnification glass? Wouldn't that mess with the size appearance of the front sight?

Still hoping for opinions of scope mounts for ARs....Flat-top or on carrying handle.

444
May 30, 2003, 11:22 PM
I would imagine what you saw was an AR with an optical sight (red dot). The reason you want it way out yonder is because you shoot with both eyes open. You don't consciously look through the optic, the dot just appears on the target.
Yes, you can still use the iron sights with the optic mounted.

The much prefered method of mounting an optical sight on an AR is with a flat top reciever.
In my opinion, the ultimate optic mount is a Knight's Armament RAS II with an ARMS mount.
For mounting a regular rifle scope, you need to watch two things. One is that the stock is straight-no drop. So, you need to have the scope up off the reciever unless you want to have to turn your head 90 degrees to see though it. Second is that you need to move the scope out away from your eye so that you get the correct eye relief.

This is what I am using for a standard scope mount on an AR Flat top. ARMs #36-EX base and a set of #35 medium rings w/inserts.

goon
May 31, 2003, 01:05 AM
I have a Savage Scout with a 2x Simmons mounted on it. I will admit that I was a little nervous about the arrangement at first, but it has grown on me. I can quickly and accurately fire with the scope mounted in the forward position. Eventhough it is only a 2x, I still managed some one hole groups at 100yds with it.
I actually like it. It allows me to carry the gun around the action, where it balances best. I originally only had it mounted that way because that was the easiest way to mount a scope with what I had to work with, but I am now convinced that it is as good as a conventional mount.
And you don't ever have to worry about that scope whacking you in the head.
The only thing is that oil gets splashed up onto the lens of the scope. It is a little disconserting, but I am used to crap obscuring my vision after 15 years of wearing glasses.

SkaerE
May 31, 2003, 04:04 PM
i had a preban bushy for a while that had a forward mounted aimpoint on the "gooseneck" type mount (puts the red dot in front of the carry handle)

anyhow, when looking through the sights the red dot sat right on top of the front site. it was pretty neat. the best part was that it didnt matter how you positioned your head or held the rifle the dot was where the bullet hit.

very cool. very fast.

sometimes i miss that fun-gun. stoopid layoffs :cuss:

SharpKnife
May 31, 2003, 10:34 PM
Goose Neck....so that mount attaches to the top of the carrying handle and bends now to put the actual scope in front of it, right?

Do you have a brand name for these mounts or does everyone make them? I gotta give this a try!

Scout.308
June 1, 2003, 04:15 AM
I have a Savage Scout with a Leupold 2x. I thought it would be odd, but within 1/2 an hour, the advantages were obvious.

As a general purpose gun, the Scout must allow for fast shots, and here the concept shines.

You look at your target, bring the rifle up to position, and the scope slides right into your line of sight. Being farther away from your eye, the change in focus to see through the sight is much less than a standard sight.

The effect is that you keep sight of the field, never losing any target "in the scope", and get on-target essentially as fast as you can mount the gun. It really works!

SkaerE
June 1, 2003, 10:07 AM
sharp knife...INCOMING PM!

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