[JLStorm]

I will be in a few states over the next month or so where I will not be permitted to have JHP ammo. I have never looked into defense ammo that does not have a hollow point. I guess I just need something that will go bang every time and is as accurate as possible. Over penatration is an issue, but I dont want frangible ammo.

Any suggestions?

[Kimber1911_06238]

what states (besides new jersey) don't allow hollow point ammo?

[DogBonz]

Federal expanding full metal jacket or powerball

[shadowalker]

You didn't mention caliber or firearm model but the same practices that go into selecting a JHP round should be used. Purchase some FMJ ammunition and take it to the range, test it for reliability and accuracy, stay away from the super cheap ammunition.

[JLStorm]

NJ is the state I am talking about, I cant carry there, but I use it for "home defense" in my motel rooms. The caliber is 45 acp and 357 magnum.

I thought about the expanding jacketted rounds, but they may be to close to JHP for NJ law.

[perpster]

Maybe Jacketed Soft Points or LSWC, under the circumstances you've given.

[stevek]

My understanding from discussions with many gunnies here is that EFMJ is Jersey legal. It is the recommended amo for retired LEO's.

[CountGlockula]

Full metal jackets are not recommended for Self-defense because of penetration issues: Not only through the bad guy, but also through your wall and neighbor's walls.:what:

That's why the military uses them.

Why not silver tips?

[WeedWhacker]

Why not silver tips?
I will be in a few states over the next month or so where I will not be permitted to have JHP ammo

Don't worry overmuch about not having access to JHP - they're nice if you can have 'em, but .45 hardball will do the job just fine, too, if you have the rotten luck to need 'em.

As for overpenetration issues, sometimes you just have to let the pieces fall where they may. A security video of a hotel robbery in Ohio showed a bad guy getting shot center-mass three times - and all the JHPs exited the bad guy and ended up somewhere in the parking lot or beyond. JHPs are not magic. Best you can do is pick your lines of fire as best you are able.

[RyanM]

For the .357, 125 gr JSPs will work fine. For .45, I'd probably use some kind of lead semi-wadcutter with a medium load. 185 gr at 950 fps will do the trick.

[Kimber1911_06238]

what about lead flat points with a copper plating? they are really soft and from what I can tell would mushroom like crazy.

Berry's bullets or Rainier ballistics makes them too.

[nhhillbilly]

When I went to NJ for a training conference I purchase Federal EFMJ. They functioned fine through my Glock 23 and Kahr. From speaking the fellow officers they are legal in NJ. I fact I ordered them from www.Ammoman.com.

[.38 Special]

....45 hardball will do the job just fine...
Yep. It's every bit as effective as .380 Silvertips, according to Marshall. :neener:

[Imaginos]

Col. Cooper suggested 200gr JSWC or Pro-Load 200gr JFP as his preferred alternative to the 45 ACP 230gr ball in cases where JHP is not allowed/available.

[PotatoJudge]

I would consider 158 grain LSWC in 38 special. Should do well if you need it to but will be easier on your ears, eyes, and the neighbors.

EFMJ would be at the top of the list though.

[nwilliams]

What states don't allow JHP?

[Snowdog]

I'd hate to be without my Rangers, but I'd imagine a speedy 185 or 200gr SWC on the soft side (presuming your .45acp will feed them).
I don't imagine too many out there could take a 200gr Magnus LSWC hauling along at 850 FPS to the chest without reconsidering their actions.

I wouldn't feel too harmless with girthy WWC .45acp FMJs either.

[ATAShooter]

+1 Powerball

[Franco2shoot]

I'm following this thread just to pick up some knowledge, but you guys are leaving me behind with the alphabet soup..

For instance, can you tell me what type rounds it was that I shot last weekend through my .44 Magnum Ruger from this discription:

Type one was magnum, but only had copper halfway up then had lead rounded, but the nose was flat.. (whats the EMJHP..Lmnop code)

Type two was also magnum, almost fully copper jacketed, but had a hole going about half way down alla hollow point.. (whats the code for these)?

I'm guessing that there are some other .44 magnum types that I could shoot, but it depends on what is on the shelf of the supplier. I haven't been to Wallyworld to see what they stock.

I've also had .44 Specials through the barrel, and they have all been just lead nosed, which is a concern if it were the only round I shot, (from what I've read due to lead build up) So a few words with regards to specials would be welcomed too..


Thanks

KKKKFL

[musher]

SWC - semi wad cutter
LSWC - lead semi wad cutter
EFMJ - expanding full metal jacket
JHP - jacketed hollow point
FMJ - full metal jacket
JSP - jacketed soft point
JSWC - jacketed semi wad cutter?


might have missed some or gotten some wrong.

oh, and it sounds like your type one was jsp and type two jhp

[PotatoJudge]

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/bullets.html
http://forums.cheaperthandirt.com/viewtopic.php?t=78&

These should get you started.

[Franco2shoot]

Thanks guys... especially potatoe judge... the first link had pictures which was really great... turns out I had SP since softpoint looks to have a little copper showing - my type I and

my type II which was JHP so full copper out to tip then a hole.

Now can I get the same bullet but have the cartridge load be a .44 special?

Seems to me a Magnum going off in a house, even if its JHP is gonna go through an intruder and out the front door leaving a hole the size of a teacup in Mr. BG's back.. I just can't seem to find a nefarious type to volunteer..
so I'm guessing.

KKKKFL

[Jkwas]

I've been pondering this situation myself. I may move to NJ and will have to rethink all my ammunition requirements. I'm thinking either lswc or jsp 38+p for my 38's and 124 or 147 gn jsp's for my 9;s Magtech makes both and their quality seems to be good.

[tbreed725]

corbon DPX

[.41Dave]

+1 on Federal's Expanding Full Metal Jacket or Corbon's Powerball. If you can't have those, well, in an earlier era when hollowpoints were unknown or unreliable the greats like Bill Jordan recommended lead semi-wadcutters as the most effective. If I were unable to use hollowpoints I would not hesitate to use SWCs in my .357, and in my .45acp if it will feed them reliably.

[RON in PA]

JLStorm: Do you even have permission to have a firearm in NJ?

[RustyShackelford]

I'd look into the Federal EFMJ(Expanding Full Metal Jacket) or the CorBon PowRball loads. The Federal rounds are limited but will work well. The PowRball rounds also work well but check the laws concerning handgun loads.

Rusty S

www.natchezss.com www.corbon.com www.handgunlaw.us

;)

[ArchAngelCD]

Another vote for the 158 gr LSWC for the .357 Mag and EFMJ for the .45 Auto.

RON in PA has a great question, are you allowed to have a handgun in NJ? I think NJ is second only to NY is tough anti-gun laws. You better check carefully before you bring a handgun to NJ or you might be visiting a lot longer than you planned to.

[geekWithA.45]

JLStorm:


EFMJ & Powerball are NJ OK.

You, having a handgun in an NJ hotel room probably isn't*. :mad:

You'll be in hostile territory and legal jeopardy the whole time, which is massively increased without a FID.

According to Nappen (p 312) Some courts in NJ have construed the NJ exemption scheme** as not to include hotel rooms for travelers.

You _might_ get by on claiming that your hotel was your temporary residence, (In which case, there will be shouts of "where's your FID?") but that will be determined by a court of law after much time, inconvenience and expense.

You will also face the logistics challenge of what to do w/ your handgun while @ work, (leaving it for the maid to find is begging to be arrested) because you won't be able to have it in your car with you, because transportation is only exempted _directly_ to and from a small number of approved places. "Place of business" is _very_ narrowly construed such that you basically need to own the land and the biz. Being a mere employee or contract worker doesn't count for squat.


*Unless you have an NJ approved elite status, which isn't very likely.

**NJ firearm law is structured around a _general_prohibition_of_firearms_ that has a few very narrowly construed exemptions. The onus is placed on the gun bearer to prove that an exemption exists in his case. You're gonna have a really tough time doing that.

[DHart]

NJ SUCKS! That's absurd.... I really do sympathize with you NJ folks... but don't come to Oregon or Washington... we're getting inundated these days! :rolleyes:

[massad ayoob]

Last time I discussed it with NJ officials (a few years ago) a county district attorney told me the hollow point prohibition extended only to guns carried in public, including the relatively few concealed carry permit holders. He said his personal policy was to drop charges against anyone lawfully carrying on a permit. His interpretation was that hollow points were legal to possess, legal to take to the range and shoot, legal to have in home defense guns and store defense guns under New Jersey law.

You DEFINITELY want to check on the legality of having the gun with you there as a traveler. NJ has a bad history of certain police officials ignoring the Federal McClure/Volkmer act and ordering the arrest of honest out of staters with handguns in their possession (not necessarily carried concealed) to create "test cases."

It would be worth your while to call the NJ State Attorney General's office for an opinion before heading there as a private citizen with a handgun in your possession. If in their opinion your possession is legal, ask them to fax or mail you a copy of that opinion on letterhead.

Just another .02.

[geekWithA.45]

If in their opinion your possession is legal, ask them to fax or mail you a copy of that opinion on letterhead.

And if in their opinion it is NOT legal, still get it in writing, and either way, please post it.

This is a grey area of NJ law, and my operating assumption is that the institutionalized hostility to guns and their owners will be the dominant force in the transaction.

[Green Lantern]

Full metal jackets are not recommended for Self-defense because of penetration issues: Not only through the bad guy, but also through your wall and neighbor's walls.

Since the imbeciles running the State of New Jersey banned hollowpoints, use FMJ - and direct any lawsuits that may result of over-penetration to the NJ government! :evil:

[daysleeprx]

The point may be moot due to the NJ laws concerning you having a gun there without being a resident. But hypothetically, if I had to carry non JHP in a .45, I'd carry the flat tip FMJ from DoubleTap.

[newman32]

What massad and geek said. Never mind the ammo, you may not be allowed to have the gun here! Where are you going? The state sucks, but I've been here (unfortunately) my whole life and I've never been mugged, robbed, burgled, jacked, punked, bitchslapped or otherwise assulted. Use your head, and you'll be OK!

Also - for the billionth, billionth, billionth time. Hollow points ARE LEGAL in NJ. :banghead: Legal in the home, legal @ the range. Considering those are the only 2 places most of us can have our handguns anyway, its kind of easy for us to remember. I can go to the gunshop in the next town and buy some tomorrow if I want to.

[para-frame]

could you bring a shotgun in to PRNJ? 00 buck would work great.

[crebralfix]

So, has anyone challenged the NJ FID scheme in court as a violation of the Second Amendment? It does, after all, deny a citizen arms.

[Mot45acp]

Yup, blame the tool.
I hit my thumb with a hammer, all hammers must be banned.