Glocks through metal detector? Um...right...


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nwilliams
January 16, 2007, 05:46 AM
Ok so where did the myth come from that you can take a Glock through and airport metal detector? A friend of mine (who knows jack about guns) was trying to convince me of this the other day! I remember in the second Die Hard movie Willis makes a comment about this, is that where it started? Just curious if anyone knew the story behind this. I've heard it in other movies also so I'm thinking its a Hollywoood myth.

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SniperStraz
January 16, 2007, 06:24 AM
Its for sure that its a myth, and may very well have originated from some anti trying to prohibit glock imports or something like that. I have no proof of said statement, its just a hypothesis.

BobTheTomato
January 16, 2007, 07:03 AM
I think it was said in Die Hard 2. When Bruce Willis is talking to the head of airport security he lets him know that the gun the bad guy was using wasnt picked up on the security machines. (either xray or metal detectors....I forget which)

DaltonSpringfield
January 16, 2007, 07:04 AM
Shortly before Glock came on the scene, and long before I ever saw one, there was a heavily hyped piece about this "undetectable gun" and how kids could take it past metal detectors to shoot up their schools, on the NW Ohio local (liberal) news stations. There was a piece a few months later on a different station where they put the theory to the test, and every metal detector beeped at it. That leads me to believe it was:
originated from some anti trying to prohibit glock imports

Not sure if this came before or after the movie though.
Dalton

svtruth
January 16, 2007, 08:10 AM
you made a non-metallic, radio lucent gun the bullets (without which it is pretty much useless) are full of lovely, radio-opaque LEAD.

Dr. Dickie
January 16, 2007, 08:19 AM
This came out in the early '80s when Glocks first arrive on the scene (IIRC). The thought was that since they were made of plastic, they would not get picked up by airport metal detectors. Like most urban myths, there is always a sub-set of the population that will believe without checking (that is usually the media), especially when the "facts" do not further their agenda.

El Tejon
January 16, 2007, 08:41 AM
For our younger members: the myth was created out of whole cloth by a newspaper columnist, Jack Anderson. Anderson alleged in a mid-80s column that Libya, Qaddafi was the Usama bin Laden figure then, had purchased Glocks to smuggle into passenger planes.

It was a deliberate lie to stop the importation of Glocks. Whether he did it out of his firm belief in a disarmed American people or whether American gunmakers paid him for his lie is unknown.

Lucky
January 16, 2007, 08:48 AM
Svtruth technically 'metal' detectors should be called ferro-magnetic field detectors, because they are like a big electromagnet and if you move a chunk of iron into their field the field changes, and the alarm trips.

Could you explain what radio lucent is thought? For the other people who are wondering, of course.

Khornet
January 16, 2007, 08:54 AM
means "doesn't stop x rays very well". Think of a chest xray: bones, being denser than lungs, stop more of the radiation so it doesn't reach the film, and the unexposed film is thus still cear, appearing white when held up to light. Lungs, being air-filled, are radiolucent: a high percentage of radiation passes through and darkens the film, so lungs appear black.

Lucky
January 16, 2007, 11:04 AM
Well then that's simple, put the radio-lucent magic gun through the x-ray machine, and carry the cartridges on you through the metal detector. Except for the magic gun not existing, it's a plan!

Cousin Mike
January 16, 2007, 11:19 AM
I'm not sure who came up with it, but I first heard it back in the 80's when I was a kid. Supposedly, the "new guns" (back then nobody I knew had heard of Glock) were "made out of porcelain" and could "pass through metal detectors". :D

I remember thinking back then (even though I knew nothing about guns):

"A gun... made out of the same stuff as my mom's china? How's THAT supposed to work?" :scrutiny:

That's funny, El T - I'm sure that pretty much explains it. Perfect timing and everything, since I remember being about 6 or 7 years old when I heard that...

FTR, I was born in '80. :)

El Tejon
January 16, 2007, 11:30 AM
The porcelain/ceramic lie was added later via the movie "Die Hard II".

I worked the gun counter when that movie was out. I cannot tell you how many requests for a "Glock 7" I received but if I had a dollar for each one my gun collection would be over 20,000 pieces.

Wedge
January 16, 2007, 11:45 AM
From John Maclane in Die Hard 2
That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me! You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It dosen't show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it cost more than you make here in a month.

I also once had a guy tell me that he was given by order of the President after serving as a special security detail to the President of the United States a GLOCK 5, which was similar to a GLOCK 7 but had select fire capabilities. :rolleyes:

CNYCacher
January 16, 2007, 11:49 AM
A guy I know once told me about his buddy's "pre-ban Glock", which could go through metal detectors because it was "made, you know, before the ban".

We then got into a discussion about where the external safety was on it. I thought it was on the right side, he assured me it was on the left side, behind the trigger. ;)

El Tejon
January 16, 2007, 11:54 AM
CNY, was your buddy a cop in Finland (where the external Glock safeties were sold)?:D

I love gun shoppes. The silliness one hears is hysterical.:evil:

Zero_DgZ
January 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
Gather 'round the camp fire, lads, and I'll tell ye a tale.

Some time in the summer of last year I was at Shorty USA's (www.shortyusa.com) walk-in warehouse store looking for an airsoft 1911. I eventually wound up buying a WE 3.8 model, but that's neither here nor there. I also inspected a few other models, including KSC's artfully constructed 945 compact, but declined it based on the platic slide which was already showing signs of wear around the slide stop notch on the display model.

(The KSC also cost more.)

"The plastic slide really isn't a problem," the clerk assured me, "even real steel Glocks have plastic slides and they can take all kinds of abuse."

"I beg your pardon," said I, "Glocks have plastic frames with metal slides and slide rails."

"No," he insisted, "My buddy has three. They have plastic slides."

Sadly, I had to inform him that both he and his buddy were full of bovine excriment and Glocks indeedy do have steel slides. I invited him to stick a magnet to one of his "buddy's" Glocks some time, through I strongly suspect neither said buddy or his Glocks actually exist.

(This guy looked to be about thirty. He should be old enough to know better.)

But it just shows you that the pervasive "plastic gun" misinformation still exists, even to this day.

Eyesac
January 16, 2007, 12:19 PM
I also remember hereing this myth when I was a teenager; that they could pass through metal detectors. Also that they we're cheap plastic throw away guns that every gangster could afford (like cheap guns are a bad thing). Heck I paid $600 for my last glock, hardly the cheapest gun around.

Neo-Luddite
January 16, 2007, 12:44 PM
Gimme a plastic gun loaded with cop killer teflon exploding black talon armor piercing military grade easily converted to full-auto with a grenade launcher...

and a bayonet lug.

Neo-Luddite
January 16, 2007, 12:48 PM
I remember the 'plastic gun thing'. As I recal a law was passed on the heals of the BS from Die Hard II mandating something like 2ozs of metal in a firearm. There was some fella doing weapons research on plastic guns in the US and they went (forgive me) ballistic on him. He was actually working not on small arms at all but on actual military ordnance--rocket launchers and such. They drove him nuts.

DoubleTapDrew
January 16, 2007, 01:13 PM
Truth has never stopped anti-gun advocates from telling the world. I remember when they were first imported and the news did a show on it about the concerns. They sent one through an airport x-ray machine and it looked just like...A GUN!!!(imagine that!)
Anyone who believes that has never handled one. The only thing polymer is the frame, and it still looks like a gun on the x-ray.

Jim K
January 16, 2007, 01:47 PM
El Tejon is correct. Jack Anderson broke the story, with all kinds of hype and nonsense, but he was going on some tests conducted by a security expert who did smuggle a Glock past airport metal detectors and x-ray machines.

He disassembled the Glock, and put the slide and magazine in his briefcase separate from the frame. He took the recoil spring and wound it around his eyeglass earpieces, like one of those elastic bands used to keep glasses on.

I understand that at that time, Glock was not putting metal into its frame molding, so only the small parts showed on the x-ray. The slide, simply a blocky blob, did not excite any comment. No mention was made of ammo, so apparently none was involved. But... GUN GETS PAST X-RAY!! Horrible! Run for the hills! Ban everything!

Did Anderson get paid off by American gun companies? Probably not; he was generally considered honest (unlike his mentor and predecessor, Drew Pearson, who never met a bribe he didn't like), but he was anti-gun and knew a good story when he had one.

In fact, around that time, I was going through airports pretty regularly, and can state categorically that it would have impossible to smuggle any gun bigger than, say, a Bofors Twin-40 past those alert security people. Most were far more interested in drinking coffee, chatting with their co-workers, doing their nails, etc., than in looking at monitors or checking passengers. Of course it was spotty, so a terrorist could not have been absolutely sure he would not encounter a security person who was actually awake, but the odds were in his favor.

Jim

Eleven Mike
January 16, 2007, 01:47 PM
The following is highly illegal activity, and is not endorsed by Eleven Mike, The High Road, or its owners, moderators or members.

Glocks can easily be smuggled past both x-ray and metal detector security. When placed in Tupperware containers, Glocks blend in very well, so are effectively camoflauged.

Jim K
January 16, 2007, 01:50 PM
Ha, ha. But no.

Jim

shermacman
January 16, 2007, 01:58 PM
Hey, try it yourself!
Put your fully loaded Glock in a Tupperware container and head on over to your local airport!
Let us know how it works out!
:cool:

Dr. Dickie
January 16, 2007, 02:06 PM
Gimme a plastic gun loaded with cop killer teflon exploding black talon armor piercing military grade easily converted to full-auto with a grenade launcher...

and a bayonet lug.

You gun nuts just have to go one step too far!!:neener:

ArfinGreebly
January 16, 2007, 02:10 PM
Oh, I get it.

The TupperGun.

Yes, my wife picked up one at her last Tupperware Party.

Said something on the label about not being microwave safe, though.

Deanimator
January 16, 2007, 02:12 PM
It's just a lie by the more idiotic of anti-gunners.

But then idiotic lies are their stock in trade. One of them once told me that it would be easy to sneak a convention semiautomatic pistol onto an airplane by claiming that the barrel was a fountain pen and the slide a "padlock". Needless to say, I mocked him savagely until he went away.

Cousin Mike
January 16, 2007, 02:18 PM
As long as I live, I will never forget that line from Die Hard about the "Glock 7." Funny, the other day I saw someone here on THR refer to a Glock 7 as if it were a real gun... I forgot which thread it was - which is probably for the better - but it's funny to see that even on gunboards, people really believe what they see in the movies.

I didn't respond to that thread, FWIW. I wanna work in a gunstore now. I can't imagine getting paid to laugh all day. :D

Eleven Mike
January 16, 2007, 02:52 PM
Let's not blame it all on Bruce Willis or the anti-gun movement. Half of it is just ill-informed people passing on things they heard somewhere. It wouldn't take long before, "Hey, I heard they're makin' plastic guns now," turned into "How 'bout them plastic guns, you can take 'em right onto an airplane and nobody would know!"

Spreadfire Arms
January 16, 2007, 03:44 PM
I also once had a guy tell me that he was given by order of the President after serving as a special security detail to the President of the United States a GLOCK 5, which was similar to a GLOCK 7 but had select fire capabilities.

yes this is the top secret model issued only to the world's best mall ninjas.

GeorgiaGlocker
January 16, 2007, 04:55 PM
I thought it was that Glock 18 that was invisible. I thought Han (was that his name) had one in Die Hard One...........

boomer1911a1
January 16, 2007, 05:17 PM
Hans Greuber (Gruber ?),played by Alan Rickman, carried an H&K squeeze-cocker. I THINK a P-7, but it might have been the bigger one.

Odd Job
January 16, 2007, 05:20 PM
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/Vektor.jpg

There you go.
One Vektor CP1, X-rayed with one inserted mag and one mag to the side.
If that shows up, I guarantee you a Glock will show up too.

Whether it gets recognised is another matter. That depends on a few things, which I won't go into.
The assumption must be that the gun will be detected. There are new technologies being tested that will render even an all-plastic weapon detectable in certain circumstances.

CZ.22
January 16, 2007, 05:44 PM
With the GLOCK 7 thing, the prop guy begged the movie not to do it. But they ignored it. And the fact that GLOCKs are Austrian/Georgian. And that they aren't that expensive.
Course, he also blows up a plane with a cigarette lighter...
Oh yeah, Hans Gruber uses a nickle or stainless P7.

Caimlas
January 16, 2007, 05:44 PM
The gun in question that sparked this whole thing, as far as popular perception is concerned, is the "Glock 7", and was fictionalized for Die Hard 2, as already stated.

Though, I've heard a couple rumours that polymer researchers are figuring out how to make "ceramic polymers" - plastics which have the tensile and bearing strength of steel. Or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw lightweight carry guns made of the stuff within a couple years - at least the slides.

seeker_two
January 16, 2007, 06:02 PM
Never understood the hype behind the Glock 7 "invisible gun"....

Now, the .800 Magnum....THAT got me worried... :what:

Zoogster
January 16, 2007, 06:51 PM
I think a gun that can go through metal detactors is a very real possibility. Advanced polymers, advanced porcelain etc. It would have to be specificly designed for the purpose from the bottom up as every component would have to be made avoiding materials with undesirable properties. Composite barrels, ammunition utilizing polymer casings with heavy porcelain rounds.

It could be done, especialy if it was not designed for long term use. However the required density of such materials would still likely make them obvious in x-ray machines. This of course could be bypassed by making them of shapes or assembled out of ordinary items engineered to be combined for a weapon later. Such as pens that are barrels, etc. If engineers can design transformers to turn into vehicles and something else for use as simple toys for children, they can apply the same ingenuity to firearms.
It could all be designed to be non ferous as well as non suspicious for visual security.

Porcelain knives are very common now, and they are required by law to include enough ferous metal in the design to be detected by detectors because by default they cannot be.
In fact with polymer barrels, existing caseless ammunition etc all the components already exist for mass produced non ferous guns.

So even though the Glock stuff was all hype, the very real potential of guns designed to defeat security is there, if not already in practice.

Geronimo45
January 16, 2007, 07:11 PM
"I saw someone here on THR refer to a Glock 7 as if it were a real gun..."
It IS a real gun. In the will-orange-juice-strip-Glock thread, I contributed a little of my incredible HSLD expertise to the subject - since I did serve with Delta Force, SAS, Mi9, CIA, and the top secret NATO SpecOps body known as 'Decapolis'.

My Glock 7 was given to me personally by President George Washington himself. He said no other operator could've done what I did (I drove off British deserters who were trying to rob the Mount Vernon Gift Shoppe).
It served okay for a while, but it has its downsides:
1. High price - it was a completely new offering from Glock, and limited to less than a thousand units.
2. Parts availability - practically nonexistent. You had to order your parts direct from Vienna. They took the order and made each one individually.
3. Poor finish - the finish on the slides was a new variety that was extremely strong at first... but after about six months' exposure to the moisture in the air, it degraded rapidly.
4. KBs could kill the shooter. The guns couldn't handle 9mm +P++P+ APIP (armor piercing incendiary polymer) Hollowpoints for many rounds - the guns had major issues at 4,000.
5. Caliber choices - any caliber you want, as long as it's 9mm Luger. No .40, .45, or .86 (22mm).
6. Magazine springs - they lost spring tension after about four months of being loaded to max capacity. Oh, and the 1993 mags (marked GLOCK LEPMI) employed compressed air instead of springs. Novel idea, and it worked - unless you dropped a magazine and stepped on it. Then you'd loose all air pressure and the mag was useless.
7. Galling of the frame/slide. You had to handle the gun with kid gloves. If you happened to replace the slide with the Glock 7 10mm conversion from IMI, you would find that the metal had torn nice chunks out of the frame.
8. No mounting rail - when most of our work is best done in the dark.
9. Broke easily - sure, you shouldn't use your gun as a hammer. What if you have to? You're outta luck. The grip snaps off the frame.
10. Fragile firing pin. Most of our agents took to carrying a titanium model.

Upsides:

1. Very accurate.
2. GLOCk-safe - dropping it won't set it off - just shatter it to pieces. You could have an external safety added.
3. High capacity.
4. No problem with metal detectors.
5. Threaded barrels are readily available for silencer use.
6. Easy to clean.
7. Practically no lubrication is ever needed. Grease is preferred.
8. Lightweight.
9. Reliable. Fed any 9mm Luger round in existence, even empty cases.

ShelledChaos
January 16, 2007, 08:21 PM
im no chemist but wouldnt using a ceramic or porcelain barrel eventualy shatter under the heat and velocity of the exiting rounds after short use by wearing down the walls of the barrel?

Zoogster
January 16, 2007, 08:36 PM
im no chemist but wouldnt using a ceramic or porcelain barrel eventualy shatter under the heat and velocity of the exiting rounds after short use by wearing down the walls of the barrel?

Probably, however polymer (plastic) barrels are more and more common.
Ceramics and plastics are a class of compounds, and there is thousands of potential variations that would be called the same thing in layman's terms.
If it has to withstand pressures there is plastics that can do it. If it has to be hard or heavy there is porcelains that can accomplish that.
When you hear porcelain dont just think of pottery or the china you eat on, just like when you hear polymer it does not mean of the type you use for everyday plastic products.

shc1
January 16, 2007, 08:44 PM
Geronimo45 wow! So you’re the guy that saved the Mount Vernon Gift Shoppe!!!
:D

AZ Jeff
January 17, 2007, 12:50 PM
I think a gun that can go through metal detactors is a very real possibility. Advanced polymers, advanced porcelain etc. It would have to be specificly designed for the purpose from the bottom up as every component would have to be made avoiding materials with undesirable properties. Composite barrels, ammunition utilizing polymer casings with heavy porcelain rounds.

........So even though the Glock stuff was all hype, the very real potential of guns designed to defeat security is there, if not already in practice.

Fundamentally, the biggest obstacle to using advanced polymers, composites, and porecelain-type materials is that, for self loading pistols, MASS is a critical parameter of the design as much is the strength of the material.

A porcelain-based slide might be able to be developed that had the tensile strength needed to contain the propellant burning pressures, but that porcelain would probably lack the density, and thus lack the mass, needed to properly allow the firearm to function/cycle properly.

PILMAN
January 17, 2007, 01:16 PM
I been trying to get a friend into guns, showed him a picture of my USP and he said "Oh is that a Glock?" and quickly mentioned something along the lines of "Damn I knew they were made of plastic, can you get through airport security with that?". *Sigh*

Another friend of mine in Illinois also mentioned about Glocks being plastic and a throw away gun. He said "Man I heard Glocks were really crappy and made of plastic, like the kind a black gangster would buy and use it a few times then ditch it in a trash can in a subway or something." He kept on saying how he wanted a chrome beretta M9 in 9mm.

CypherNinja
January 17, 2007, 01:21 PM
Excellent point AZ Jeff.

If the weight issues couldn't be addressed in a recoil action, they would have to switch to a delayed blowback or gas operated action..... :cool:

[Visions of a plastic/ceramic P9]

blo0dyhatchet
January 17, 2007, 01:46 PM
You cant get nail clippers through air port security now, I dont see a glock making it all all. :neener:

Wedge
January 17, 2007, 02:00 PM
Geronimo45, you are obviously lying as the Glock 7 was internally supressed by the factory...get your facts straight, the threading was for a FLASH suppressor!




That was the funniest post I have read in a long time!

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