[Drizzt]

Cache of weapons found in Jackson
By Andrea Misko
Beacon Journal staff writer

JACKSON TWP. - Police officers called to check on the welfare of an individual got more than they bargained for early Wednesday.

They arrived at the home on Harborview Drive to find a cache of about 90 weapons -- rifles, shotguns and handguns, some semiautomatic -- and ammunition.

The owner of the home and the guns, Kevin Beck, 44, faces four counts of unlawful possession of a dangerous ordnance, a fifth-degree felony, police said.

Beck was being evaluated at a Cleveland hospital Thursday. Upon his release he will be transported to the Stark County Jail, said Jackson police Maj. Tim Escola.

No court hearings had been set as of Thursday.

Police received the call around 9 a.m. Wednesday and arrived at the home to find Beck in an unstable state, Escola said.

Officers found the stock of weapons in plain view on display. Some of the weapons were loaded improperly, meaning they had more rounds than allowed by law, Escola said.

Federal investigators and the Summit County bomb squad were called to assist. The weapons were taken into police custody and are being checked to determine ownership and history.

Beck told police his father gave him the weapons, Escola said.

Beck showed no sign of being a threat to police or his neighbors, Escola said, and has no history of violence. He told police he was in the military but has been out for 20 years and currently is on disability retirement.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/5975198.htm

[HankB]

Some of the weapons were loaded improperly, meaning they had more rounds than allowed by law Huh? :confused:

I can't tell from the story - what "unlawful ordnance" did he have?

[Battler]

Guns and ammo basically.

Moral of the story, while it's not illegal, if you've got a lot of guns, expect grief.

If all the guns are legal, he's still going to get a lot of grief, as they don't like it.

To members of the audience, having 90 guns makes you Mr. Bad News.


Battler.

[standingbear]

what was the dangerous ordinance with which he was charged the 4 felony counts?im also confused as to what is meant by "having more rounds than allowed?"does he live in a city that has made possession of a magazine that holds greater than 10 rounds a crime?no specifics here,just overgeneralizing.well,he can say bye bye to all his firearms,the felony counts just did that.probably everything else too.a shame.

[geekWithA.45]

And this is OK with everyone?

Personally owning more than N, (whatever N is) is a bad thing?

We're being a bit passive, here folks. :fire:

I've seen the gunowner community do this before.

First there are questions, to ascertain the legitimacy of the charges involved, even if they seem trumped up.

Then we argue about whether the person did in fact violate a law, and if he did, in even the slightest of ways, we'll promptly kick him out of the brotherhood, smug that our own ability to successfully navigate the environment of extreme legal peril we all live in distinguishes us from such "criminals".

Maybe we'll argue about whether that law was just or not, or maybe we won't.


At the end of the day, we'll call him a dummy, shrug our shoulders and move on, glad it wasn't OUR cache (of 1 or 2 or 3 or 30) that was stumbled onto.

Then we'll close ranks behind this poor sod.

Truth to tell, this may well not be the case to be all uppity about, but the devil never buys in wholesale lots, he always buys a snip here and there, like Disney buying up worthless chunks of central Florida.

---------------------------------------
Sad thing is, except for taking up a collection, I don't know what to do about it either. :banghead: :banghead: And I'm as frustrated as the most frustrated of us.

[Kinsman]

rifles, shotguns and handguns, some semiautomatic

Those evil semiautomatics.....are they the kind that are bad on their own?

[Battler]

Don't worry. They'll never confiscate our guns. People wouldn't stand for it.

[standingbear]

story seems a bit awash with "scaring the sheeple".i would like to know what really went on in this story,anyone?:scrutiny:

[Brian D.]

Ohio (where the story above takes place) has a rather obscure section of state law which considers any semi-auto loaded with more than 32(?) rounds to be the same as a full-auto, in their view. Some gun stores seem to be aware of this, others not;but the onus is on the buyer anyway, as I understand. For that matter, many LEOs in Ohio seem unaware of this law as well. Perhaps this is what the gentleman in question is accused of doing illegally....?

[Ebbtide]

Yep, welcome to Ohio. Where the mention of a "gun" will bring down the heat :(

ehenz

[standingbear]

so if the magazine has a capacity in excess of 32 rounds..its a full auto even if the gun the magazine fits is a semiauto?thats crazy,didnt the 22 l.r. calico semiautomatic rifles have a detachable 100 round mag?law needs changing to reflect the functioning of the gun not the magazine.

[Kaylee]

.. just wrote the reporter asking her to clarify things a bit.. notably, why exactly were the cops in his house in the first place (what does "in an unstable state" mean?) and secondly... what exactly were the laws that were broken.. :)


The way it's written, Mr. Beck could be anything from a harmless ol' vet who had a cardiac event mowing the lawn to a rampaging nut case ready to take out the neighborhood.

Anyone else wants a crack at it...

Andrea Misko can be reached at 330-478-6000 (Ext. 18), 1-800-478-5445 or amisko@thebeaconjournal.com

Also.. the Jackon PD "Your Hometown Homeland Security" are here:

http://www.agarmedia.com/jpdindex.htm

Chief Carl Eisnaugle
Office phone: (740) 286-4131
Chief's personal e-mail: carmar1@bright.net

:)

-K

[braindead0]

An article in our local paper: Canton Repository (http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=15&ID=102750&r=1)

Okay, so he had 'grenades' according to police. They also state that guns were loaded with more ammunition than permitted by law. Perhaps this is an Ohio law???

=======
JACKSON TWP. - A man who said he wanted to kill himself lined his home with more than 80 weapons, including a semiautomatic rifle with a 50-round magazine and hand grenades, police say.


Police stopped Kevin Beck's suicide attempt and took the weapons from the military veteran, who Thursday was charged with four counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance. The charges are felonies.


The reason for charges, said Police Maj. Timothy Escola, was many of the guns were loaded with more ammunition than is permitted by law.


Beck, 44, of 6500 Harborview Ave. NW was taken to Mercy Medical Center and then to a Veterans Administration hospital where he remained Thursday. As a result, he hasn't been arrested for the charges.


Police received a call from a friend of Beck's at 8:46 a.m. Wednesday. She said she was concerned because Beck was threatening to kill himself, and said that he had a shotgun.


Police found more than one shotgun in Beck's home, however.


A firearm silencer, fitted for a .22-caliber rifle, was found; a Mosburg Model 142K; a 9mm handgun with 36 rounds of ammunition; a Colt AR-15 with a 50-round magazine loaded with 42 rounds of ammunition; and two military hand grenades were found in a safe in Beck's basement.


The weapons, some of them collectibles, were in plain view, lining rooms of Beck's two-story brick home, Escola said. The sight prompted Police Chief Harley Neftzer to call federal investigators.


The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the Summit County bomb squad assisted Jackson police, who remained at Beck's home until late Wednesday evening.


More charges are likely to be filed against Beck by the ATF, Escola said Thursday.


Investigators said Beck, who made no threats toward others, does not have a history of violence.


Puzzled neighbors said they knew very little about Beck.

[Standing Wolf]

Investigators said Beck, who made no threats toward others, does not have a history of violence.
Puzzled neighbors said they knew very little about Beck

All the more reason to steal his guns and lock him up!

[Stoney]

I read this story in the Columbus Dispatch . In that article it also mentioned this guy had a fairly large amount of marijuana. Not sure why the Beacon Journal article didn't mention this.

[Standing Wolf]

Beck showed no sign of being a threat to police or his neighbors, Escola said, and has no history of violence.

Exactly! See? That proves it once and for all!

[Preacherman]

OK, based on what I read there, I see a number of infractions of law that might be reason for his arrest:

1. Ohio has a wierd law that says, IIRC, that any more than 32 rounds of ammunition in a weapon makes that weapon the same (in the eyes of the :fire: law) as a full-auto weapon. He had two guns loaded with more than this number of rounds.

2. He had a suppressor on a .22 rifle. Illegal unless specially licensed.

3. He had two hand-grenades (presumably functional). Illegal in private hands if functional.

However, to say that he was arrested because "many of the guns were loaded with more ammunition than is permitted by law" doesn't really convey the above facts - it sounds spurious. He would certainly be in violation of Federal law on 2 and 3 above, but only in Ohio, with its daft interpretation of magazine capacity, would he be guilty of 1 - elsewhere, this is a no-deal situation.

[Preacherman]

I'm combining two threads on the same topic.

[braindead0]

Found the law, ORC 2923.11 E:

(E) "Automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger. "Automatic firearm" also means any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges.

Note the wording, there's no way this law can stick as no semi-automatic firearm is designed or modified to fire more than 31 cartridges...it's all a function of the magazine methinks.

Yeah, the guy's probably a whack job..

I asked the reporter some of these question myself, like.. are they dummy grenades perhaps?? And I pointed out that silencers are not illegal if you fill out the paperwork and pay the taxes.

[general]

You know what will be next?
If you are in possesion of more than 32 rounds and a magazine capable of being loaded with more than 32 rounds.
You know like washers are suppressors, or parts, even though not installed on a firearm - which COULD make it full auto.

[Hal]

general,
They've already got that part covered.
2923.24 Possessing criminal tools.
(A) No person shall possess or have under the person's control any substance, device, instrument, or article, with purpose to use it criminally.
(B) Each of the following constitutes prima-facie evidence of criminal purpose:
(1) Possession or control of any dangerous ordnance, or the materials or parts for making dangerous ordnance, in the absence of circumstances indicating the dangerous ordnance, materials, or parts are intended for legitimate use;
(2) Possession or control of any substance, device, instrument, or article designed or specially adapted for criminal use;
(3) Possession or control of any substance, device, instrument, or article commonly used for criminal purposes, under circumstances indicating the item is intended for criminal use.
(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of possessing criminal tools. Except as otherwise provided in this division, possessing criminal tools is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the circumstances indicate that the substance, device, instrument, or article involved in the offense was intended for use in the commission of a felony, possessing criminal tools is a felony of the fifth degree.

[OEF_VET]

Investigators said Beck, who made no threats toward others, does not have a history of violence.

But, he doesn't need do be a threat, after all, it's the guns that are dangerous. I mean they may jump off the wall and attack a schoolyard. Save the children!

[Darrin]

Ok, so what is the 'magic number' of firearms that constitutes LEOs, ATF, or whomever to be concerned? 10? 30? Anyone know?

[tyme]

He wants to kill himself? What's the problem? Why is this a state or federal issue? If he wants to die, let him. If he doesn't, he won't kill himself. Now taxpayers are going to pay people to sort through and investigate the "cache" of weapons. The state probably gets the house, car(s), weapons, and any other assets this person had. In fact, he'll probably wish he had killed himself in short order.

Darrin, 1?

[Atticus]

I'm not 100% sure if this the same story I heard on the news the other night ...but I think it is. Not too many people with "arsenals" have been on the news the last few days.
That story included interviews with neighbors who claimed the guy had threatened them with a shotgun. They also said that he had a steady stream of visitors coming and going at all hours.
I don't know what was really going on... but the guy doesn't sound quite right.



EDIT- Actually...it was another guy and another "arsenal"
From the Columbus Dispatch.

NEWARK


Man with cache of guns may face more charges


A man who stored nearly 400 guns, including assault rifles, in two Newark homes has been charged with unlawful possession of a dangerous ordnance and likely will face more charges next week.

"I look for this to be presented to the grand jury on Thursday,’’ Newark Police Sgt. Scott Snow said yesterday.

Thomas Gough, 36, of Newark was arrested Wednesday in Newark on an unrelated domestic violence charge in Muskingum County involving an incident with his estranged wife, authorities said.

After Gough’s arrest, police and Licking County sheriff’s investigators served search warrants at Gough’s house and a relative’s house. A tipster told police about the guns earlier this month.

The guns, which also included handguns, shotguns and high-powered rifles, were found in eight gun safes. About a pound of suspected marijuana also was confiscated.

Authorities believe some of the semiautomatic rifles may have been modified to fully automatic in violation of state and federal laws. The ordnance charge against Gough was filed Thursday afternoon.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is helping in the investigation.


— From staff reports

[Stoney]

I stand corrected, apparently I've mixed up my arsenal stories. We don't have CCW in Ohio but we do love our large cache of weapons.

[standingbear]

so he gets put in hospital to get help for his whatever,what happens to all his property other than the guns? seized and sold at public auction or what?also,it was mentioned an ar15 with a 50 round mag and a 9mm also,what 9mm was it?a final note,can it be clarified that narcotics were found in the home also?

[Coronach]

OK, as best I understand these stories...

1. The case Atticus relates sounds a lot like he was a drug dealer. At this point the libertarians while chime in, and I'll advise them to save their breath. No use arguing drug law on this thread. ;) Point of order- he is engaging in illicit activity, and that will garner you police attention. Possibly modified some weapons to fire full auto? That will also do the same. He was arrested for other stuff, a search warrant or consent search yielded other items of interest in his home. If it was 8 safes full of widgets we wouldn't care (and, incidentally, neither would the Disgrace).

2. As to the first, original, story...here is what got the police involved, and what got him, probably, involuntarily committed:JACKSON TWP. - A man who said he wanted to kill himself lined his home with more than 80 weapons, including a semiautomatic rifle with a 50-round magazine and hand grenades, police say.Police received a call from a friend of Beck's at 8:46 a.m. Wednesday. She said she was concerned because Beck was threatening to kill himself, and said that he had a shotgun.So, he tells someone that he wants to kill himself, that someone calls the police, and the police go out there and inquire after his well being. If he gives the cops indication that he is an immediate threat to himself or others, through his actions or statements, he can be involuntarily committed to a mental health institution for his safetly and the safety of others. This is a temporary measure, and hence he is:...being evaluated at a Cleveland hospital Thursday. Upon his release he will be transported to the Stark County Jail, said Jackson police Maj. Tim Escola.The latter part is because of what was found in plain view in the house, found under subsequent warrants, or under a consent search (this is not entirely clear).

As to the entire kit and kaboodle (illicit and nonillicit stuff alike) going to the Property Room, think about this quote, for a moment:Beck, 44, of 6500 Harborview Ave. NW was taken to Mercy Medical Center and then to a Veterans Administration hospital where he remained Thursday.Hmmm...you have just told everyone in the entire world that 1. Beck has a lot of cool stuff, 2. Where that cool stuff is, and 3. That he's not there right now. Do you, as a LEO, have a responsibility to Mr. Beck to hold his property in safety until he, or a designate, or an heir can come take possession of it? HECK YES you do.

The ORC's 31+ round law? Pure silliness. This is, incidentally, the first time I've ever heard of anyone being charged under it, if in fact he is. Yes, it needs to be changed, for rather obvious reasons. The 'dangerous ordnance' charges are likely for the grenades.

I agree, both of these write ups were poorly done, poorly explained, and written with a palpable 'scare the sheep and gunowners' angle to them.

Mike

[Edward429451]

The 'dangerous ordnance' charges are likely for the grenades.

Would it be reasonable to assume that these grenades were the DWAT non functional ones, sold in surplus stores for 7 or 8 bucks?

I mean, if they were live, wouldn't they have focused more on them in the article? Immediately charged the guy with an explosives charge? Hmmm.

The way it stands, they barely mentioned them, and said he hasn't been charged with anything yet. This leads me to beleive that they were DWAT's and it was mentioned in the article for the shock & awe value to the sheeple.

Are DWAT grenades legal or not?

[Coronach]

A live grenade would fall under the definition of dangerous ordnance. An inert grenade would not.

Naturally, Edward, we're all reduced to guessing due to the...somewhat lacking details of the news report. Anyone reading back over my posts will note this to be a regular lament of mine, and so it remains.

Mike

[Edward429451]

Oh I hear ya. Its all just surmising, and I'm not trying to armchair quarterback anyone. I just reasonably assumed (I think) that the media probably did everything they could to blow it up a little (no pun) like they always do. If they were live, I think we could have expected to hear of the charges in the article. Which we didn't, so knowing the media and the lack of any mention of any explosives charges, that the grenades probably were inert.

I'm bored.:)