Polishing a 10/22 bolt


PDA






dispatch55126
January 20, 2007, 10:48 AM
I've read in several places that polishing the bolt and receiver on the 10/22 can approve the cycle on the rifle. I've got a dremel and will probably do it just to give myself a winter project. My question is does polishing to a mirror finish and deburring everything really make an improvement or is this just an "old hunter's tale". Thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "Polishing a 10/22 bolt" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mainmech48
January 20, 2007, 11:47 AM
Unless you're a pretty advanced and experienced tinkerer, I wouldn't use any power tool on the bolt or receiver of your 10/22. Even with hard felt bobs and relatively mild compound it's easy to get carried away and over-do it, sometimes to the point of causing problems where there weren't any. You'd likely be surprised at just how little attention to the 'wrong' spot can yield a decidedly negative affect on the functioning or safety of your rifle, and any chances of relief under the terms of your warranty would be gone.

IMO, the safest and most enjoyable way to slick-up a .22 or about any other firearm is to shoot it-a lot. If you simply must, I'd stick to flat surfaces and a hard Arkansas stone, crocus cloth, or the very finest grit emory cloth you can find and a large dose of restraint. Limit yourself to tiny 'improvements' at any given session, and always test it a good deal on the range in between them. Settle for what looks like less than 'enough' and don't expect any miracles. Remember that the difference between 'good' and 'better' is always harder to see than between 'bad' and 'worse'. If it ain't broke, do you really need to fix it?

The 10/22 is acknowledged as being perhaps the most consistently reliable .22 RF self-loader, functionally, ever produced. Improving on that would be hard. Making it less so is all-to-easy.

Glockfan.45
January 20, 2007, 11:58 AM
Well put mainmech.

highlander 5
January 20, 2007, 12:14 PM
Dremel + gun + inexperience = the world's most expensive piece of scrap

rockstar.esq
January 20, 2007, 12:51 PM
So rather than jump on the anti grind bandwagon I'll suggest something entirely different. Moly powder used to coat bullets (back when that was popular) can be mixed with plain old rubbing alcohol to make a paint-like liquid. If you were to evenly coat the surfaces of your bolt and bolt way with this mixture giving it sufficient time to dry (30-40 seconds). The Moly will bond to the metal redering a super slick surface. Cycling the action manually a few times will certainly knock loose any extra Moly in the action. Be advised that Moly is a dark gray powder that gets all over the place if you're clumsy. I've applied this stuff to trigger groups and reduced trigger pulls by as much as 3lbs. The exceedingly cool thing about this is that after you've coated it with Moly it's a dry lube so there aren't any dust/ grit boogers forming. Plus you can mix the Moly in with your favorite grease should that appeal to you. Please note that high speed wheel bearing grease often contains Moly however this stuff is often too stiff for gun actions and tends to just goober up operation in general. Here's a link to Midway stocked Moly powder.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=183655

Detritus
January 20, 2007, 05:16 PM
the most common "action slicking" trick that deals with the 10/22 and it's bolt is actually a very mild reradiusing of a certain area of the rear or bottom of the bolt where it cams against the hammer. mainly this is done so as to reshape a newer production bolt to the radius found on the older/original spec bolts.

the newer specification has a slightly sharper angle on the surface that first contacts the hammer than the older design. the sharper angle pushes the hammer to the cocked position faster, resulting in more force being needed for the action to cycle/cock the hammer. changing that radius/angle to the older style results in a slower transition to the cocked position, force is spread out over a longer period making the action smoother in function.

that said, i'm with the "File+inexperience= possibly ruined gun" crowd. but then again MY 10/22 is between 30 and 40 years old (older than me, and i'm 30) has the old style bolt :D so i don't have a need for the operation. I've owned newer 10/22 and the difference IS noticable.

remember as well that the receiver on a 10/22 is aluminum (but not the 10/22Mag, that's steel) and over polishing with a power tool CAN wear through the anodizing, leaving you with soft spots etc. mildly lapping the bolt and receiver with say J&B or similar might help, but grease (or Rockstar's moly trick) and 1K rounds downrange would probably be as good or better.

ok time for me to stop blabbering.
My suggestions,
don't grind anything yet, if ever.
buy and in stall a "10/22 LR performance package" upgrade kit from weaponkraft (http://www.weaponkraft.itgo.com/photo5.html) this kit includes a recoil buffer/bolt stop replacement, a sockethead takedown screw + t-handle wrench to fit, and a Volquartsen exact edge extractor kit (extractor and spring)
Grease or moly the mating surfaces between the bolt and receiver
Then shoot two 550rd bricks through it and see how it feels after that.

the buffer reduces impact shock between bolt and receiver, and slightly lengthens the recoil stroke improving reliability of ejection and feeding. the volquartsen extractor of course improves extraction.
the socket head takedown screw and matching T-handle allows for more consistent tightening of the screw without risk of buggering up the screw or the stock.
best thing is the kit's only about $28+ whatever the shipping is.

dispatch55126
January 20, 2007, 05:49 PM
I think the inside of the receiver is painted, not anodized. All of the areas rubbed by the bolt have paint that is flaking off. Obviosly, you don't want flakes of paint in the action, so since its already flaking, does removing this paint make sense?

WinchesterAA
January 20, 2007, 05:57 PM
I used a rubber polishing wheel on a dremel and polished the FCG on my AK in a few minutes.. I can't really tell if there's a difference or not, but I didn't break it.

that was my first time polishing anything besides boots.

Detritus
January 20, 2007, 07:14 PM
I think the inside of the receiver is painted, not anodized. All of the areas rubbed by the bolt have paint that is flaking off.

weird I didn't think you could anodize the outside without getting the receiver interior as well. i beleive that every surface of the receiver is in contact with the electrolyte and the whole chunk is wired up, now you might put something on certain surfaces to keep it from absorbing dye, but why? and that comes after the anodizing process anyway, you still have to seal it and anyting that inhibited dye would probably interfere with the sealant.
I DO know that any oils, unremoved pre-existing oxidation, and some other "surface impurities" (ie failure to "De-smut" the piece) will hinder the anodizing process.

wondering if they changed something in how the finish the receiver, my 30+ year old one has no flaking, in fact probably 75% or more of the interior surface, including areas of contact with the bolt is still black under the thin coat of greyish white grease (just went and took it apart to check this before i typed it).

either way, flaking finish does suck. might wanna call ruger and see what they say.

doberman
January 20, 2007, 09:32 PM
Dremel + gun + inexperience = the world's most expensive piece of scrap

GUILTY!:D

rockstar.esq
January 20, 2007, 09:45 PM
Detritus Anodizing can be selectively applied using a paint on masking which is done before the aluminum is placed in the tank. This is how tapped holes in anodized aluminum parts remain un coated. Flaking paint chips would not be the result of anodizing which would come off much more like bluing i.e. rubbed through or stripped by chemical action.

Detritus
January 20, 2007, 09:55 PM
Detritus Anodizing can be selectively applied using a paint on masking which is done before the aluminum is placed in the tank. This is how tapped holes in anodized aluminum parts remain un coated.

that's part of why I like this site i learn someting almost everytime.:)

Flaking paint chips would not be the result of anodizing which would come off much more like bluing i.e. rubbed through or stripped by chemical action.

now THAT i knew. so, if it turns if receivers are flaking, then i wonder what it IS that is flaking off? ie what's ruger puting on the interior surfaces (dry film lube, like on some AR mags, maybe?). cause as i said interior of mine looks and seems to be wearing like an anodized surface.

dispatch55126
January 22, 2007, 04:12 PM
Here's some pics of the receiver. This flaking occured after one day with 200 rounds.

mainmech48
January 24, 2007, 02:45 PM
IMO, it's more likely that the finish on the aluminum receivers is some sort of polymer 'paint' than anodizing. I know that this is true of the 'stainless' models, as there was a 'silver' coat on the receivers of both of mine. I discovered this by trying to side-step a trip to Wally's for a bottle of Hoppe's and using some Sweet's that I had on-hand. Some of the finish came off in the wipe-down, leaving bare spots where it had dissolved the coating. Fortunately, only one receiver was disfigured, but getting that one back to 'pretty' was a semi-costly PITA.

The flaking would most likely be the result of sub-par adhesion due to either flawed surface prep or a glitch in the curing process. If it starts to appear on the exterior too, I'd contact Ruger about it. If they won't refinish it for you under warranty terms, there're Robar, Black-T or a number of DIY products you can fall back on.

The tenacity of the adhesion you get with polymers is very dependent on the quality and control of critical factors in both of the above processes. On steels, some type of phosphate treatment similar to Parkerizing is usually applied as a basecoat to give the finish material more of a 'grip'. IIRC, many proprietary processes for aluminum alloys include some type of anodizing to get a similar effect. From a cost-effectiveness standpoint, doing so in a high-production rimfire like the 10/22 or Marlin M-60 would up the retail price enough to make it a lot less attractive to the target market segment.

madmike
November 2, 2008, 10:47 AM
Zombie thread resurrection.:evil:

Just got a new 10-22 for my daughter. Compared to my 25 year old model, it's a POS:mad: Plastic trigger and trigger housing; rough, HEAVY bolt cycling, flaking paint inside the receiver. Okay, they now include a decent protruding mag release. Yippee skip.

It's going to cost a bit and take some time to make this thing shoot worth a d@#^.

Joe Demko
November 2, 2008, 12:56 PM
Don't buy a "10/22 recoil buffer." They are nothing but a piece of 1/4 inch delrin rod cut to the same length as the bolt stop pin. Instead, buy yourself some 1/4 inch delrin rod and cut a piece to length yourself. For the price of a "10/22 recoil buffer" you can get about 8 feet of 1/4" delrin rod. That's a lifetime supply of buffers and then some. There's a kajillion sources of rod on the web.

Dookie
November 2, 2008, 04:33 PM
Don't buy a "10/22 recoil buffer." They are nothing but a piece of 1/4 inch delrin rod cut to the same length as the bolt stop pin. Instead, buy yourself some 1/4 inch delrin rod and cut a piece to length yourself. For the price of a "10/22 recoil buffer" you can get about 8 feet of 1/4" delrin rod. That's a lifetime supply of buffers and then some. There's a kajillion sources of rod on the web.true to a point, one problem with a lot of the buffers is that they come off a big wheel and can have different consistencies, making one area spongier and the next hard. A few companies make stiffer buffers that take all that out, and they work considerably better.

People have been complaining about the new plastic housings since before they were introduced. But 99% of the people who buy 10/22's don't care, the other 1% are going to upgrade anyway. As long and as many topics have been brought up about the "quality" of the new trigger, I have only read about 3 people who have problems with them

The heavy bolt that you are talking about is caused by the paint on the inside of the receiver. You can either shoot it awhile and then it will fall off or use some paint remover and take it off.

Joe Demko
November 2, 2008, 06:10 PM
The stiffer buffers are nothing but urethane rod; also easily available on the web. There is no good reason to pay the same amount for a couple inches of plastic rod as you would for several feet of the same.

Dookie
November 2, 2008, 09:17 PM
The stiffer buffers are nothing but urethane rodNo, they are not.

Joe Demko
November 2, 2008, 09:44 PM
Perhaps you'd like to expand on that.

CRITGIT
November 2, 2008, 10:02 PM
Actually the first buffer type pins which many of us started with to replace the steel pin (B-46) was delrin but we soon got on to polyureathane rod in various durometer grades. That was back in approx 1996ish.
Theoretically the softer material is quieter and slows the cycling down a nano sec. Who knows! With 1022's the name of the game is bells $ whistles!:)
But it's all fun!;)

CRITGIT

Dookie
November 2, 2008, 11:50 PM
Perhaps you'd like to expand on that.Kidd and Rimfire Technologies all use something different than the eurothane.
From R/T's websight,

Certified material both in dimension and composition found commonly in the aircraft industry, and are vastly superior to any polyurethane buffer available! Rimfire Technologies Buffer Link (www.rimfiretechnologies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BWBB001)
I have these and use them, they are in no way similar to rubber buffers.

Kidd buffer

The KID bolt buffer is comprised of a Viton tube with a hardened steel core. Viton is a synthetic rubber which is extremely tough, resilient and chemical resistant. Its not as flashy as the multicolored Poly-whatchamacallits out there but in our opinion it is far superior.

http://www.coolguyguns.com/8bolt.html

Joe Demko
November 3, 2008, 07:36 AM
I don't understand why you are talking about rubber buffers. I've never seen one for a 10/22. Every buffer I've seen at a gun show or advertised on the web is a piece of 1/4" diameter plastic rod; typically delrin. A few were made from a polyurethane type material.
Your RT buffer page doesn't actually specify what material it is. I see no reason to believe it isn't just delrin.
Viton is an elastomere typically used in o-rings and hoses. Your Kidd buffer is a piece of steel rod slipped inside a piece of tubing. I don't see anything magical about viton's properties in the specs I looked up.
There isn't enough of a market for 10/22 buffers for anybody to have purposely developed a polymer just for the task. The delrin and urethane buffers are off the shelf rod cut to length. The Kidd buffer is off the shelf steel rod and tubing, cut to length. For all of them you are paying as much for a couple inches of material as you should for several feet.

Detritus
November 3, 2008, 08:59 AM
I'll tell you why many folks buy the premade buffer instead of "getting "X" feet of Delrin etc" for the same price...
Most folks who're in the market for one of these buffers, are in the market for one, and only one. As in they own a single 10/22 and don't really fire it enough to ever have to worry about any possible wear and tear on the buffer.
I'd almost posit that most folks who buy one of these buffers are buying them b/c they've heard stories on the net of the bolt stop or it's corresponding holes in the receiver becoming battered.

On top of that, probably the majority of 10/22 owners neither know nor care that you can buy Delrin or Urethane rods, much less know where to get it (not in MY local hardware store, i've looked).

My personal take on the buffers in general, they have some benefits, but i beleived that for teh average shooter that soem of the claims made to sell them are over blown.
the 10/22 i learned to shoot with is from the 2nd year of production, and after all those years of being used as a squirrel gun (before my time) and the family plinker, it shows no signs of battering or other stress/damage to the bolt stop or the receiver holes (at one time such battering was a selling point for at least one of the bolt buffers).

my current 10/22 (since i last posted on this thread, i traded the 2nd year gun back to my father for a target rifle) has buffer and the differenced i note are that with the buffered gun there is no "CLACK" of the bolt hitting the stop, for me perceived recoil was reduced, and unlike the older rifle i have yet to have a stovepipe

madmike
November 3, 2008, 11:36 AM
I have a plastics supply house near me that sells a variety of materials in rod size. Not only would I have to buy 8', I'd have to make a minimum purchase of $50 (and Indy is not a small town).

Why should I wait until I need more Kydex for knife sheaths, add 8' of rod to the invoice, drive 20 miles each way at 7c/mile gas plus wear and tear (IRS lets me deduct 54? cents per mile), get 8' of rod I really don't need, cut it to exact length, when I can send someone $15 for 3 rods already sized exactly?

Yes, it does seem to reduce the clack. Yes, that's better for a reciprocating mass. No, it's not likely repeated impacts will crack the receiver, but it is certainly possible.

I suppose next time I head up that way (next year) I could ask if they have any scrap lying around, and wait while they dig for it...or I can just spend the money now and save myself the time and worry. My time is worth saving.

Now, if I made a jig to cut them to length and could sell a bunch...hmmm...;)

The NEW 10-22 with its plastic guts is really rough compared to my 1985 model. They seem to figure most people are going to toss half the internals anyway, so why waste money on them? Though frankly, I'd have paid $25 more if they'd made it a bit better.

Joe Demko
November 3, 2008, 04:39 PM
TAP Plastics (http://www.tapplastics.com/index.php?) has 8 feet of quarter inch delrin rod for $3.95. Cutting it to the same length as the bolt stop pin is about a 30 second job.
See, my time is worth something too. 15 to 20 dollars, plus shipping and handling, accounts for more of my time_spent earning that money_than $3.95, shipping, and 30 seconds with a utility knife. Even if I throw the other seven feet+ of rod away, I'm still money ahead.
Of course, you could do something really goofy like make the rest of the rod available to your 10/22 owning friends, but I guess that's just crazy talk.

Dookie
November 4, 2008, 02:15 AM
Your RT buffer page doesn't actually specify what material it is.Does the owner, or I, have any reason to tell you what the material is made out of?
You may not care, but the poly that is pulled off a roll cannot compare in quality to what Kidd, VQ or R/T uses. The typical poly buffer is springy, can have different elasticities, and can (and has) caused it to work the bolt incorrectly, however rarely.
The typical poly buffer also has another downfall, they cannot be used in the 10/22 magnum, the 10/ 17HMR conversions, or the 10/17 HM2 conversions. Those three can. While the factory steel buffers OFTEN cracked the receivers on the 10/22M and the poly buffers are not stiff enough to offer any support for any of the three.


Back to the topic, buff the snot out of the bolt. I used a 600 grit diamond knife sharpener on mine, hit all the sides, after I stripped it of all it's parts, and it is much smoother now, and square.
Another thing to do is to remove the bolt handle from the rod and put a serious polish on the guide rod.

madmike
November 4, 2008, 02:27 AM
Joe:

plus $8.37 shipping = $12.32 for the rod, then I have to cut it and handle it.

Or, I spent $15, got three pins by mail, and drop them right in.

Hmmm...

I have a garage full of materials I bought a sheet/rod/bar of and don't need again.

But by all means buy one and cut it up. Next time I need one, what will you sell me one for?

Dookie: Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and polished my old well-worn bolt, too. It works even slicker now.

How do you dismount the charging handle? It looks as if the end of the rod is upset and flared.

Joe Demko
November 4, 2008, 07:32 AM
Madmike,
Last time I did it, I gave away the remaining rod to THR members for free. All I asked was $1 to cover the price of envelopes and postage. I sent each person enough rod to make about 3 buffers. Here's the thread. (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231303&highlight=free) You and Dookie can continue to assume I don't know what I'm talking about, or you can contact some of the people from that thread and see whether it worked for them too. I don't know whether I'll ever do it again, but that's because thousands of rounds haven't worn out the first one I installed and I kept enough rod to make two more.

Does the owner, or I, have any reason to tell you what the material is made out of? Do you have any reason, other than wanting to disagree with me, to assume it isn't just delrin?

Detritus
November 4, 2008, 02:11 PM
How do you dismount the charging handle? It looks as if the end of the rod is upset and flared.

a file... as far as I know removing the "ears/flared part" of the guide rod is the only way. I know none of the three i've owned had any slots etc in the bolt handle to allow it to be removed without doing so. granted on teh oldest one the handle never was captive.

from what i can gather the flared section is there as a convenience, not everyone wants to deal with having to put the handle back on the guide/spring assembly each time they take the action apart.

Plus if you make it so that replacing a worn out recoil spring requires making the spring/guide/handle no longer a single assembly, you can sell new assemblies ;)

Dookie
November 4, 2008, 08:55 PM
a file... as far as I know removing the "ears/flared part" of the guide rod is the only way. I know none of the three i've owned had any slots etc in the bolt handle to allow it to be removed without doing so. granted on teh oldest one the handle never was captiveOnly difference is that I use a dremel with a sanding bit. I have a stack of metal polishing bits that work real nice for smoothing metal out. A dremel with a buffing tool and polishing compound works real nice, but can get messy.

To keep the spring and follower from flying off I use a small vice grip with a rag and lightly clamp the bolt handle back, when I get the "ears" removed I SLOWLY release the pressure, a grocery bag works well if you accidentally lose control and send the spring into nowhere land.

CRITGIT
November 4, 2008, 09:40 PM
I peen the dog (ears) at the end of the rod until it allows the handle to pass. I use a vice grip to grab it with the aid of some rubber inner tube to protect the rod. Then just give a a good smack ..or two ...or three on a hard surface like a vice. It's not necessary to re-peen the rod after handle replacement but I do.
While the handle is off the rod I polish the BJsus out of it it with Flitz.
I've successfully converted several of my 1022's this way replacing the stocker with a 1022 magnum handles. It is a great improvement!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Rimfire01/charginghandle.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Polishing a 10/22 bolt" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!