About HK?

So if youve read any of my threads in the past couple of weeks or so you know Im looking for a CCW weapon. I finally decided on the Kahr MK40/CS9.

Im going around to different gun stores trying to find a good price on a MK40/CS9 and I go into Jim Pruett's Guns and Ammo for the first time. Great store. The clerk, Jim I think, hands me a HK P2000SK V3. Immediatly I realise that this is the gun Im going to carry. It fits my hand, Its small enough and light enough to carry and most of all; it fits my hand.

Its 839.99.

Im sure Ill be able to find it cheaper($670 at CDNN, OTD w/shipping and FFL fees thats $151 less) but Id like to keep a store like Jim's around so Ill pay him. My question is: Why do HKs cost so damn much? I know they are good but what is it about theirs that brings the cost up? Is it just because thats what people will pay or because of something about the way they are made?

Also, how well do HKs age. If you look at a used HK can you eaisly tell if its been fired alot?

It's because HK Weapon Wizards have imbued all HK handguns with +2 stats vs. repeat offenders. :D

In truth i dont know...i own 3 hk pistols and 2 of their rifles and i paid through the nose for all of them...The fact i paid so much for "combat tupperware" makes me feel superior i guess. Us HK guys shell out hundreds more for weapons that are tough to work on, difficult to find parts for, and really no better that many other quality brands, but it makes us feel good to have our gun say HK on the side, and HK knows that so they bring the MSRP up to nosebleed levels and we gladly pay it.

so my final answer is

Cuz they know we'll buy it anyway.

Sounds about right. Im gonna pay about $350 than I would for a P99C or a 239 but what I can I say; Im in love.

I spend $800-$900 on my USP, so I don't have to work on it, unlike some people who pay the same for their 1911, they still have to tinker with it because it don't work right.
Who's overpriced now? :rolleyes:

Who's overpriced now?

Diddnt say "overpriced". I said "expensive".

IMO, it's about perceived value & the HK's I own & shoot have been 100% reliable since round one. As has been quoted here before....what is your life worth?

How well do they age? I have read before that they wear at the slide and wobble a bit. I read that this was normal for a HK and that it would still fire just fine. Any truth to this?

and download their catalog. I paid 670.00 for mine. You'll have to contact your FFL dealer first. Also, if you live in Texas, you'll have to pay sales tax.

I bought this pistol in .40 S&W. I found it a bit bulky for carry. Recoil was nothing, a pleasure to shoot. Never a failure.
I sold it because I just couldn't shoot it consistently well. I wish I could blame it on the short sight radius, but I believe it just wasn't the pistol for me. In the right hands they are certainly outstanding pistols.

I spend $800-$900 on my USP, so I don't have to work on it, unlike some people who pay the same for their 1911, they still have to tinker with it because it don't work right.
Who's overpriced now?

I love how you make this broad generalization about all 1911s every time the subject of an HK comes up. :rolleyes:

daysleeprx/gudel- lets keep this on topic. Id rather not lose my thread to a 1911vsHK hissy fight.

My apologies. Let me add my 2 cents:

I've owned two USP 45s, a USP9, and USP9c. None of them ever gave me problems, and so in that respect, they were worth the price I paid for them.

I ended up trading/selling all of them because I eventually found guns that fit my hand better. All of the guns I own now have been equally as good as the USPs in terms of reliability and because they fit my hands better, they shoot more accurately for me. None of my current handguns were as expensive as my USPs, but that doesn't mean the USP isn't worth the money. If those HKs had fit my hand better I'd still have them.

So what makes the HK guns more expensive? They are quite well made, and generally problem free. However there are other guns that also have reputations for great reliability (Glock comes to mind) that are up to several hundred dollars less. So in the end, it's probably just that the market will bear the price. Many people use the analogy that more expensive guns are equivalent to nice cars: a cheaper car will get you from point A to B as well, but the more expensive car will do it in style.

(I like Mjolinir1911's explanation as well). :D

If the gun fits your hand, go for it. Find a good price and be happy. H&K are trouble free quality guns. Shooting it a lot and carrying it will eventually leave it's marks, on my USP the slide seems faded despite little use.

The final choice between the many quality hand guns boils just down to personal preference.

I've got 8 or so HK handguns and while some a got at a really good deal, most were the standard selling prices. I'll gladly spend more for a gun that 1) is from a quality and established manufacturer. 2) Fits my hand so well and feels so good in my hand. 3) is kin of others I have that I'm certainly very happy and impressed with.
I guess to some expensive is a relative term. Yes, HK's may cost more than others but I feel I'm paying for a bit morea nd getting more when I buy one so I view the price as getting what I pay for.

I have owned or do presently own HK: USP .45 full size; USP .45 Compact (2); USP .40 Compact; USP Tactical .45; P2000 v3 in 9mm. NEVER one problem with any of these guns. Compared to others I've owned, these guns are just heads and shoulders above in quality and reliability.
Visit the HKPro.com forum. There are good prices on the classifieds and complete information on the guns with nice people same as here. Get one. In a few months you won't even miss the money. Think of all the cash that has slipped through your hands over the years. Can you even remember what it was spent on? You will remember HK
OH wobbly with wear??? Not in my experience. They age gracefully and hold their value as well or better than most others.

I had a HK USP 40. Great piece of machinery and, I am sure, as good as its reputation. Unfortunately it just never felt right in my short fingered hand.

Swapped it out for a Sig with a less bulky grip that I really like. To me the point is that no matter how great a pistol is you have to, sort of, bond with it. It is the same with cars, dogs and women. It sounds as though you can do that with the 2000.

The HK is worth the money in as much as its value relative to other pistols goes. You pay for the work and testing put into. I forget the actual reliability testing figure but is something like 20,000 rounds. Do I feel as though the Sig is inferior in any way? No, I just feel I traded a Mercedes in for a Jaguar. (No english car jokes, thank you !!)

IMO, it's about perceived value & the HK's I own & shoot have been 100% reliable since round one. As has been quoted here before....what is your life worth?

I have owned or do presently own HK: USP .45 full size; USP .45 Compact (2); USP .40 Compact; USP Tactical .45; P2000 v3 in 9mm. NEVER one problem with any of these guns.

I bought this pistol in .40 S&W. I found it a bit bulky for carry. Recoil was nothing, a pleasure to shoot. Never a failure.

Is it just me or is there a theme developing here. IMO, weapons are just like everything else in life, you get what you pay for.

I'll add my 2 cents as well. I currently own 5 HK pistols. One with over 20,000rnds thru it. None of them have ever suffered from a single weapon related stoppage or malfunction. Not one. These weapons aren't babied either. They get dropped in the mud and sand, stepped on, and generally abused, I feed them magazines full of sand and grit. They keep eating.
The last training class I attended I saw all kinds of failures. Out of 12 people only 3 of us made it through the 3rd day still using our primary weapon. A 9mm Glock, a P2000, and my USP45. Don't even bother to ask how the custom tuned 1911's faired.

Awesome. I cant wait until I get my P2000sk.

See if the guy will throw in a t-shirt and hat too, they're really cool!

A HK hat or a Jim Pruetts hat?

HK! But I wouldn't turn turn one down from Jim either!

Paid 730 tax included for a .40f. I think they are expensive because they are totally reliable and come from a combat proven line of firearms:)

Once you buy the P2000sk you will want to buy the P2000 as well. I can attest to that. Both are great guns and it is nice to share mags between them. Either way you cant go wrong with either gun.

I recently held a full size USP .45 and then a P2000sk. I won't deny that H&K makes fine semi-autos, but I am still not sure what the hype of the P2000sk is all about.

It is HKs first sub-compact pistol. It also is an excellent BUG for the fullsize P2000 or a USPc. The gun is very comfy and completely ambidextrous.

There is more work involved in a USP compared to a Glock (parts, machine work, etc.) They are fully assembled in Germany and imported into the U.S. (that cost $$). They don't mass produce guns for markets like Glock does (debatable). They also produce (IMHO) the only decent plastic gun similar to the 1911. They have people wanting that style safety and the HK guys cornered.

Are they overpriced? Yes. So are Sigs and Glocks. But they're reliable and durable and if they fit your hand best go for it. An extra couple hundred bucks isn't much when it comes to getting a tool that might save your life.

Excellent post Red, welcome to THR:)

Thanks Mb.

Great forum you guys have here. It's nice to find a place with people who haven't completly drank their flavor of Kool-Aid:D

Why not ask the local shop to give you a deal? Be honest with them about what you can get online and then maybe offer him $700-$720 for it so you're still paying him a little more then you could get from CDNN?

I think the biggest pro for HK's is the trigger system. 9 different variants including DA/SA with cocked & locked option which not many other makers offer.

DISCLAIMER: I am not about to bash, make fun of or degrade any other manufacturers.

Ok here we go. First, I’m going to shock a lot of folks by saying that they are not. I work in finance and if you do a little past/ present vale calculation, you will find that a USP costs, in relative terms, the same as a pre WWII 1911.

Next people say well, there are other guns with the same level of reliability as HK at two to three hundred bucks less, namely Glocks. To this I say yes that is true. HK and Glock both have an excellent reputation for reliability. But comparing these two guns on price is like comparing apples and cumquats. There are few, if any, pistols that do what a HK USP v1 does. Shall we review?

Polymer frame
Large cap mag
DA/SA
Cocked and locked
Decocker

More options = more engineering= more parts= more human (mostly skilled) labor= higher consumer price.

It’s just like the car with power everything and a convertable roof costs more than the stripped coupe.

But why am I personally willing to pay the premium for an HK and recommend them to friends and family, aside for reasons stated above, that is?

.0001. That is a small number, right? That is the rate of failure for my USP45. One failure in about 9000 rounds, and that was a ruptured case from a bad lot of Wolf ammo. So technically, my gun has never had a mechanical failure. If I used better ammo the number above would probably be 0.

It never jammed. It fits in my hand like a perfect size boobie:D It shoots great. It's the most accurate handgun I have (or so I think). I paid $870 for mine, so not cheap, but worth every penny.

AP

Frankly, I think HK churns out a good product. The only failure I've experienced with the ones I've owned/own now (USPf 9mm, USPc .45, P2k, P7M8) was with the P7M8 - I bought it in a consignment sale, 86' date code, and likely hadn't had anything but user maintenance for 20 years. It's in the shop getting a new extractor now, but that's not unreasonable after 2 decades of ownership/use.

For the record, my Berettas (5 total in the last few years) never had any failures of their own, and niether has my 870 or my Tikka bolt rifle. In the "boat done sank 'for it left the dock" category, I had a SIG 229 go kaput right out of the box. Ya'll are right to say that expensive is a relative term, but I would also contend that products of that quality attract repeat customers and buyers from the word of mouth of HK owners - just as my next pistols will likely be HK or Beretta, I'll continue to avoid 1911's and SIGS based on past experiences. Doesn't mean the latter two are bad brands/models, just that being stung once means at the price they're sold they won't be getting my dollars, but HK will continue to reap an occasional paycheck from me as long as I keep having good experiences with their products.

Thanks PSY and DOG. I feel alot better about my next purchase. It just seems like there are no real complaints about them, unless you count "get a Glock" as a complaint:p


Ill ask for a deal, see what happens. I have always been a little fustrated by the fact that the only two gunstores that treat people right around here, Gander and Carter's, seem to have a "no haggle" policy. If they make a deal with me, then they will have found a new regular customer.

Between my HK-UPS and SA-XD, I have a slight preference for the XD. It fits my hand better and I hit the target just a tad bit better with the XD. That being said, my USP45 is my primary CCW. I grew up with 1911s, and I like the side safety, the decocker and the single/double action for CCW. I *almost* traded the UPS45 away one day, but I realized that I would be kicking myself from here til the end of time (this was before I got the CCW). Expensive? Yes. Worth it? It was to me.

To me, it was worth it for my USPc and P2K. The little things that set it apart from the lesser costing handguns makes it worth it. Same thing about the Sig P series. When you realize how the gun feels, the trigger smoothness, the overall ergonomics and the tighter tolerances, you'll love it.

Sure, a Toyota Camry works but we sometimes want something a little fancier like a Maxima or something like that.:D

I have a USP 40. I like it enough, but wont use it to defend my life, given other choices.

The problem that I have is a trigger timing problem in SA. In SA mode, if the trigger pull timeing is right, the trigger acts as a decocker instead of firing. My guess is that there is a slop between the trigger and the hammer blocker thingamagik.

It does not happen all the time, but happen often enough and is reproducible.

Yeah, I know.. they have great customer service. :rolleyes: One of this day, I'll send it in for repair.

-Pat

This may sound dumb, but...Pay close attention to your support hand next time you shoot. While teaching a friend of mine to shoot my USP, he was pressing the decocker once and a while with his support hand as he pressed the trigger. I know that it seams far fetched, but I saw him do it several times. After I told him what he was doing, he adjusted his grip and then all was right in the world.

Sounds weird, I know.