1911 shooting .45-08


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ripcurlksm
January 21, 2007, 02:25 AM
Has anyone heard about the more powerful .45-08 handgun round? I was directed to this site which makes them and wanted to see if anyone here has experience or thoughts on this round. The only mod needed to the 1911 is a 20 - 24 lb. recoil spring.

Back in production with new, better tooling - the Armco .45-08 super-strong brass. Made from commercial .308 brass, shortened and precision neck-reamed, this brass lets you play with very powerful loads in your 1911 using a standard .45 barrel and chamber. $25 for a 25-pack. These are rolling out to Texas and Alaska (as well as all across the north of Canada) as people who work and play in the wilderness are discovering they really do work :)

(scroll to the very bottom)
http://www.armco-guns.com/RELOADING%20PRESSES%20ETC..htm

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Car Knocker
January 21, 2007, 04:07 AM
This has been around for at least a couple of decades. How do these differ, ballistically, from the .45 Super, which requires a 28-30 lb spring for full-power loads? By the way, .45 Super brass is much cheaper, $92/500.

joneb
January 21, 2007, 04:52 AM
sounds like a good way to shorten the life span of your 1911 :uhoh: this is the case with the Colt delta 10mm the 23 lbs recoil springs are punishing to the gun a lighter spring and modified firing pin stop seems to help. I think a Glock 20 would answer this question better than I.

saltydog452
January 21, 2007, 05:33 AM
Before commercially brass was commonly available, the 44 AutoMag used .308 brass, shortened and inside reamed to form a 'shoulder' at the correct bullet seating depth.

Don't understand how the width would go from 429 to 452. Thats a lot of stretch.

Walkalong
January 21, 2007, 09:13 AM
Interesting Brass. It should be stout as heck. The gun is the limiting factor and I don't want to beat mine up.

ripcurlksm
January 22, 2007, 12:58 AM
Is it really all that punishing on a steel frame? 25% less life?

ripcurlksm
January 22, 2007, 01:40 AM
Also why is it called "-08"? Also the same for what does the "06" mean in the rifle round .30-06?

aaronrkelly
January 22, 2007, 02:41 AM
ripcurlksm,

The -06 in .30-06 stands for the year the cartridge was created. In this case that was 1906.

As for the -08, Im not sure.

carebear
January 22, 2007, 02:48 AM
It's made from cut off .308 brass, thus 08. At least, that's the obvious explanation.

As was said, it sounds like .45 Super in practice.

ripcurlksm
January 22, 2007, 05:25 AM
That was helpful thanks carebear. 45 super upgrade requires more parts to upgrade than just the spring.. no?

If properly setup with the right specs for a 1911, would you prefer .45 Super or .45-08 if you had to pick between the two and why?

Powderman
January 22, 2007, 05:33 AM
Saltydog, the .44 AutoMag is made from cut down .308 or .30-06. The case head and dimensions (circumference wise) are the same as the .45 ACP case. Thus, the AutoMag cartridges are actually necked down; the .45-08 is simply inside reamed.

carebear
January 22, 2007, 01:56 PM
Powderman and saltydog,

A mistype of .45 WinMag maybe? That was cut down .308 as well, though I don't remember it being inside reamed.

ripcurl,

I don't know enough about either to make a choice. I was under the impression with .45 Super you upped the springs a bit and add a squared-off firing pin thing (I need coffee :rolleyes: ) and you're otherwise stock.

I thunk it was the .460 Rowland that required a new barrel.

Obviously I'm talking from a bit of ignorance and confusion here myself. And I ain't got time to look it up. :D

pilot teacher
January 28, 2007, 11:35 AM
MidwayUSA has Starline 45 Super brass $21.99/100.
That's a good startup for testing. Don't know about using a spring thats 33 lbs. Would be very difficult to rack a round. I use an 18.5 lb spring for +P in my Gold Cup. However very light target loads will not eject properly. Heavier but normal loads do so.
I think a 30lb spring might cause ejection problems. I'm using Wolff springs and also have heavier firing pin springs. It's a pain in the butt to change firing pin springs. I put the original one back in after trying the heavier ones and have not seen any difference or encountered problems. I think the original spring is a 12 or 14 pounder. I have 16 lb (marked factory standard), 18.5, 20, 22 and 24 pound springs.
Super brass of course is thicker on the inside around the base area but tapers to normal around the neck or else it wouldn't be possible to seat the bullet. The reason the cases need to be stronger at the base is that at the point where the top of the feed ramp meets the chamber there's a space where there's no support. That is where a case will burst or blow out. This also means there's less volume available inside the case. Consequently pressures run higher. Normal 45 pressure is about 19-20000 lbs. +P's can run 22-24000 and supers 24-26000.
One other caution I suggest is DO NOT use plated bullets. MV can be high enough to strip the plating and lead the barrel. Been using Hornady encapsulated bullets. I think the 45 Super would make a terrific hog gun with 230 gr XTP at about 1200 MV.

Walkalong
January 28, 2007, 12:09 PM
Don't know about using a spring thats 33 lbs

I don't want to shoot anything in my 1911 that needs a 33lb. spring!!:what:

Old Fuff
January 28, 2007, 12:47 PM
Too many 1911 platform pistol owners forget that any spring that slows the slide's rearward travel also accelerates it when it goes the other way. This causes the barrel to batter the slide stop pin, which in time will cause the pinís hole in the frame to elongate, and ruin the frame. But thatís just part of the problem.

Within the recoil spring tunnel there is only so much room for a spring. If the spring is fully compressed before the slide has reached its full travel the barrel bushing is going to be battered until something gives, which will leave you with a ruined slide, barrel bushing, or both.

John Browning designed the platform to work with a particular cartridge Ė standard USGI 230-grain hardball. Amateur tinkering with this super-hot stuff can lead to disaster. If Plus-P .45 ACP wonít meet your needs it would be wise to consider a .44 Magnum or larger bore revolver thatís made to handle the pressures involved.

ripcurlksm
January 28, 2007, 07:49 PM
Yes I agree Fluff.

In my amateur opinion, it seems that the .45-08 only requires a 20 - 24 lb. recoil spring which is significantly less than 33lbs. Old Fluff, do you think that using a 20 or 21 lb spring would still be within the limits of a steel 1911? :evil:

Old Fuff
January 28, 2007, 09:05 PM
According to my USGI blueprint (but what do they know) the spring should be wound out of .043" dia. spring wire, 29 active coils (30 total) with a 13.55 pound +/- 0.60 pounds) load when fully compressed. Now days they seem to come with compressed loads in the 14 to 16 pound ballpark.

So can a 20 to 22 pound spring hurt your gun? Well given enough time, especially if you're the kind that drops the slide on an empty chamber, yes it might. Also if you add some of those plastic buffers that effectively shorten the spring tunnel length your stronger spring may be stronger then you think.

Ol' John's .45 design is not a straight blow-back pistol. It's a short recoil/locked breech pistol. That means that the slide and barrel are locked together until after the bullet leaves the bore, and pressure drops to zero. Meanwhile the uncoupled slide is moving backwards under its own momentum. The recoil spring wonít do much to slow it because at the time, it is uncompressed. Going from 14 to 22 pounds isnít going to make much difference in slowing down the slide. A heavier spring may buffer the slide at the rear of its travel, but when it goes the other way it will beat the heck out of the lower barrel lug and slide stop pin. Wonít make the link and its pins feel any better either.

Now Olí John was a whole lot smarter then all of the current day hot-rodderís put together. Rather then try to use the recoil spring, he used the hammer as a brake, and employed a firing pin stop with a small radius on the bottom. If some dingbat doesnít reduce the mainspring weight to get a better trigger pull, this does work.

Now I could write a whole book to explain all of this, but I donít plan to. Some folks want Tuner to write one, and I think thatís a splendid idea. In the meantime maybe you should consider the advantages of a .44 Magnum for the mission you have in mind.

JoeHatley
January 29, 2007, 01:33 PM
45 super upgrade requires more parts to upgrade than just the spring.. no?

Here is a great set of articles from Real Guns on this very subject:

www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

Links to the additional articles are at the bottom of the 1st part.

Good Luck...

Joe

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