[Ghostrider_23]

I have a 32 ACP Kel-Tec and LOVE this little gun. I noticed that the 380K.T. is the same size ect.... Should I upgrade to the 380 and is it woth it?????

Is the 32 better than the 380 on vise verse????? I've heard that the 380 is snappier than the 32, is this true?????

What do you think????

I will be getting a PF-9 as soon as all the bugs are worked out of this amazing 9mm and use the 32 as a BUG. Should I upgrade to the 380????

[Ala Dan]

Grab a P3AT, and have all three~!:D

[hagar]

Not much difference as far as stopping power, the P32 is easier to shoot, and the P32 has 10 round magazines with grip extenders available.

[Lennyjoe]

hager pretty much summed it up.

I had the P3AT and it is a fun gun to shoot, but it's a handful for a little gun.

I've heard that the 380 is snappier than the 32, is this true?????

Yes, its true. You won't go and shoot 200 rounds thru it at the range. It will beat your finger up pretty good. Not much power gain between the two.

[ID_shooting]

Not much power gain?

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

I carry the 90gr gold dots in my P3AT. Per the above Site, .380 has 196 ft/lbs at the muzzle, .32 has 123. That is a 62% difference. May not seem like much, but since you talking under 200 ft/lbs, I want all I can get.

That coupled with the whole .32 rim lock "feature" I choose P3AT.

[Ala Dan]

Hey folk's-

I just picked up a new Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto yesterday; along with
a fresh box of Remignton Golden Sabre 102 grain JHP's. My question is,
am I using the correct ammo for this gun? I know there are persons
here with far more experience than I with this little Kel-Tec; so your
advice would be well received. Many thanks in advance, and you all
have a wonderful day.:D

[MachIVshooter]

For the price of them, there is not reason to not have at least one of each. I have a 1G P-32, a 1G P3AT and a PF-9. I like them all (though I seldom carry the P32, since the P3 is basically the same size and almost twice the punch).

I've heard that the 380 is snappier than the 32, is this true

Very much so. 1 box in a sitting and you'll want to switch to another gun. The P3 is not particularly fun to shoot.

My question is,
am I using the correct ammo for this gun?

If yours will run with it, I can't think of a better choice. The 102 gr. GS has proven the best combination of penetration/expansion in my ballistic clay tests. Avg. 9.2" penetration, .48" expanded diameter.

Edit: This test was using a Beretta 84FS and +p handloaded Gold Sabres. Avg. velocity @ 12' was 1067 FPS for 259 ft/lbs. Most loads lose 40-50 FPS in the P3. I did not chronograph this load in the P3, but I did find it rather punishing to shoot.

[lesjones]

Go with the .380. The .380 is rimless. The .32 is semi-rimmed and can rimlock (http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm).

[Atticus]

I just picked up a new Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto yesterday; along with
a fresh box of Remignton Golden Sabre 102 grain JHP's

That's what I've been shooting in mine...functions well, and is as accurate as I am with the little bugger. My understanding is that Keltec recommends hot ammo for the P3AT -the hotter the better.

One note on making the P3AT much more enjoyable to shoot: Someone posted this idea here on THR awhile back and it works great. Put a little strip of sticky- backed insulation (the thin strips used for window and door frames) on the back of the grip. Cover that with a Hogue Handall (trimmed to size with an exacto knife). Then add the one round mag extender. Fine tune all of the above to make sure that the handall does not interfere with the mag or release. This setup makes the pistol fit an adult size hand and absorbs alot of the recoil.

To answer the original post: Keep both if you can :) .

[denfoote]

I have both!!

[kokapelli]

There are a lot more brands and styles of ammo available for 380cal than 32cal.

380 ammo is always cheaper and more available than 32 cal.

In the gelatin test done at stoppingpower.net, the CorBon DPX 380 round fired from a P-3AT expanded to over 70cal. Pretty impressive. DPX is not available in 32cal.

380 DPX TEST
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon 380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec 3AT

Barrier:
Bare Gelatin


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 8.375‚
Recovered Weight: 80.2 gr.
Expansion*: .714 cal.
Velocity: 914.7 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.

[The Amigo]

Round I use is Remington golden saber in 102g and the second choice is Hydrashocks heres why: http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10-14.html im not too fond with Corbons in .380 since they tend to fail to expand.

[kokapelli]

Round I use is Remington golden saber in 102g and the second choice is Hydrashocks heres why: http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10-14.html im not too fond with Corbons in .380 since they tend to fail to expand.

That's interesting, but I prefer tests done in gelatin which right now is the gold standard for testing ammo.

In all the DPX gelatin tests I have seen, the DPX bullet has had extremely consistent expansion.

In the gelatin tests below, the Hydra Shok and CorBon's standard jhp rounds went completely through the gelatin block. That means they did not expand.

The stoppingpower tests are an average of five rounds of each brand.

It's true that some of CorBons other bullet designs, expansion was iffy, but not with the DPX round.



======================

The following are results from gelatin tests done at Evan Marshall's "stoppingpower.net" group.

Pistol used is Keltec .380 3AT
Corbon .380 90 gr. +P
Pen 16.50+" Exp N/A (left the block, not recovered)

Speer .380 90 gr. Gold Dot
Pen 10.50" Exp .476

Federal .380 90gr. Hydra Shok
Pen 16.50" Exp .356

380 DPX TEST
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon 380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec 3AT

Barrier:
Bare Gelatin


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 8.375‚
Recovered Weight: 80.2 gr.
Expansion*: .714 cal.
Velocity: 914.7 fps

""""""""""

[The Real Hawkeye]

I found the question confusing, but I voted no, because if you have the .32 (which I do), I see no compelling reason to upgrade to the .380. The difference in stopping power is negligible, and more than made up for in better control and greater capacity. Rimlock is BS. Someone put that out who has stock in Kel Tec and wants everyone to go out and get a new Kel Tec.

[Stevie-Ray]

I found the question confusing, but I voted no, because if you have the .32 (which I do), I see no compelling reason to upgrade to the .380. The difference in stopping power is negligible, and more than made up for in better control and greater capacity. Rimlock is BS.I completely agree and don't plan on upgrading, either.

[los]

Any time you can upgrade to a larger caliber CCW without adding significant size and weight, and not sacrificing too much cartridge capacity,... it's a good thing.

Concealability, Accessibility and Comfort are important issues that should always be considered and thoroughly evaluated before upgrading to a larger caliber CCW.

[MICHAEL T]

I have both .Carry my 380 more and have loaded with the DPX This copper bullet is way to go. . Have Corbon HP in 32 as their is no DPX or 32.

The Bersa finger extension helps in control and no loss in concealbility.

[Shipwreck]

I bought the P32 in the middle of last year - I thought about buying the 380 - but the recoil is higher. I could shoot the 32 all day (if the ammo wasn't so high), and my hand wouldn't hurt.

Also, at the time, I tended to see more complaints about problems with the 380 version over the 32 version. Don't get me wrong - there are many satisifed owners of the 380 version. But it seemed that the likelyhood of getting a headache gun was lower with the 32.

Since U already have the 32 - I don't see the point in buying another...

[michiganfan]

Never shot the 32 but my P3AT is very snappy

[kokapelli]

I bought the P32 in the middle of last year - I thought about buying the 380 - but the recoil is higher. I could shoot the 32 all day (if the ammo wasn't so high), and my hand wouldn't hurt.
Shipwreck, so you find that 32 cal ammo is expensive and you can't shoot your P-32 all day because it hurts your hand!

Yes, if you shoot a P-3AT all day, it will make your hand sore too, but you said the P-32 does anyway:confused:

You said that 32 cal ammo is expensive and that's true. 380 ammo is cheaper, more readily available and there are more kinds of 380 ammo available than there is 32 ammo.

So what is the problem with the P-3AT then?:confused:


Also, at the time, I tended to see more complaints about problems with the 380 version over the 32 version. Don't get me wrong - there are many satisifed owners of the 380 version. But it seemed that the likelyhood of getting a headache gun was lower with the 32.
I owned two P-32 pistols and purchased a P-3AT when they came out.

After shooting the P-3AT a couple of times, I traded my two P-32 pistols in for a second P-3AT, because I found it to be more accurate and felt recoil was no problem for up to 50 round range sessions.

I can tell you from personal experience that the P-3AT is every bit as reliable as the P-32.

Anyone that says there is not a rimlock problem in the 32 cal is flat wrong! I had it happen in my P-32.

I also now have a third, P-3AT that is a second generation model and it too has been trouble free.:)

IMO, if someone is trying to decide between a P-32 and a P-3AT, you are doing them a disservice telling them the 32 cal is a better deal.-:scrutiny:

There is only one advantage I can see in the P-32 and that is, it has a slide stop and that's it!-:uhoh:

The P-3AT is more powerfull.-:)

Uses cheaper ammo.-:)

Has more brands of ammo available.-:)

Ammo is more readily available-:)

There is no possibility of rim lock with the 380 round.-:)

Just the facts-:)

[Shipwreck]

Shipwreck, so you find that 32 cal ammo is expensive and you can't shoot your P-32 all day because it hurts your hand!

Yes, if you shoot a P-3AT all day, it will make your hand sore too, but you said the P-32 does anyway

You said that 32 cal ammo is expensive and that's true. 380 ammo is cheaper, more readily available and there are more kinds of 380 ammo available than there is 32 ammo.

So what is the problem with the P-3AT then?

U need to go back and re-read what I said. I said I could shoot the 32 all day and my hand WOULDN'T hurt....

[dstorm1911]

We have several of each in our family, I use a p3at for situations where its either impossible to carry anything else OR situations where there is very high risk to life but its not legal to posses a firearm (rather be tried by 12 than......) My family and extended family is inundated with females..... All of whome have CCWs some prefer the .32 not so much for recoil reasons but because the lighter recoil spring makes racking the slide easier and because it has a last shot slide stop the .380 doesn't have...

All these comments on the recoil really got me wondering bout these users having so much issue with the recoil, maybe ya'll needa start doin some yard work or hand excercises? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything but guys my Stepdoughter who is 20 but looks and is built like a 12 year old (she'd make a great undercover cop!! LOL) goes through 150 rnds of SXTs EVERY sunday without fail to keep herself proficient as her p3at is the only centerfire she is comfortable with, she only weighs 87lbs is 4'11" tall and has absolutally tiny hands, she can shoot my larger handguns but the grips are all to big to be comfortable to her. We have an 87 year old grandmother on my wifes side of the family that at least twice a week burns up 50 rnds through her P32, All the women on my wifes side of the family are little, all 8 of her sisters use P3ATs with no issues the Her grandmother (the 87 year old) can shoot the p3ats without any problems at all but she can't rack the slide and a double action revolver is to heavy for her not to mention she starts shaking trying to pull even a S&W double action trigger unless its severally worked over...... yet she has no trouble shooting the p3at as far as recoil....

Maybe Mexican women are just tougher? well that can't be it cause my mother is 68 and she uses her p32 to burn up 100 rnds every saturday to stay proficient her other CCW gun is a Czech CZ70 which I've reworked quite a bit she also uses several of my .45s on occasion...


Yard work guys, build up them hands, I turned wrenches and was a steel worker most of my life, the only gun who's recoil I notice is my S&W .500, my mom, she has a yard that looks like a jungle... the original grn thumb, come to think of it........ ALL of these women are into gardening with the exception of Vivi, the future undercover cop, she's into baking and music, doesn't even have a drivers license yet ..... so maybe gardening isn't the solution?

LOL, My wife and two of the girls was just reading the above posts over my shoulder............ ya'll don't even wanna know what they had to say... :evil: a polite way to put it is "maybe these guys are all doing the "wrong" kinda strong hand excercises" This is a family site so I'll leave it at that... the comment was made by the 21 year old...... very shockin as she don't even like it when a movie shows nudity LOL

[kokapelli]

Shipwreck, If you read the whole sentence as you wrote it,

"I could shoot the 32 all day (if the ammo wasn't so high), and my hand wouldn't hurt."

you can see why I took it the way I did.

With your explanation I now see what you meant.

[tinygnat219]

Why carry a .32 when there is a .380 in almost the exact same package? .380 is a better round, has better ballistics, and more defensive loads are available. It's really a no-brainer to get the P3AT.

[The Amigo]

I rather not get shot with either but the reason i prefer and suggest to get the .380 is because of the rim lock problems experienced with several .32s.

And as far as the slide lock, I don't see not having one a problem usually i count how many shots so far and if I'm out of rounds id rather have the slide closed as to not let other BG know my gun is empty. Ive yet to see someone being shot at counting bullets since they usually running the opposite way.

And when u talking of small rounds like the 2 stated coming out of a short barrel ill go for the most powerful just to tip the balance a little to my side

[NeveraVictimAgain]

Everything I've ever read says the .32 ACP round is underpowered, but several people rave about their .380 Kel-Tecs. I don't own either so can't share personal experience - yet.

[SharpDog]

I have both and the 10 rnd mags with grip extensions for the .32 make it fit my hand much better as well as holding the extra rounds. The P-3AT has the larger caliber and I honestly cannot decide whether 7 rnds of .380 is better than 11 rnds of .32.

[Shipwreck]

And as far as the slide lock, I don't see not having one a problem usually i count how many shots so far and if I'm out of rounds id rather have the slide closed as to not let other BG know my gun is empty. Ive yet to see someone being shot at counting bullets since they usually running the opposite way.

My P32 stays locked back at the end of a magazine. There is no slide release switch in the outside. But, when my mag is empty, it stays open.

[kokapelli]

My P32 stays locked back at the end of a magazine. There is no slide release switch in the outside. But, when my mag is empty, it stays open.
__________________
Visit:
That's how it's supposed to work.
The P-32 has a slide lock and to release it you remove the magazine and pull the slide back and than ease the slide forward.

I have both and the 10 rnd mags with grip extensions for the .32 make it fit my hand much better as well as holding the extra rounds. The P-3AT has the larger caliber and I honestly cannot decide whether 7 rnds of .380 is better than 11 rnds of .32.

KelTec has a plus 1 magazine extenson available for the P-3AT too.

[Blue .45]

I picked up a used 1st Gen P32 last summer for a good price. Never had any trouble with ball ammo, but I did experience rimlock with cor-bon hollowpoints. Even though I bought a rimlock kit I've never tried it. It seems that with smaller rounds, the popular opinion is penetration is more vital than expansion so I just stick with FMJ bullets, preferably the hotter S&B or fiocchi. I also purchased a ten round mag. IMO, if you have a Kel-tec that works reliably, you better not get rid of it. regardless of caliber.












j

[kokapelli]

The longer OAL of most fmj ammo makes rimlock less likely, but it still can happen.

The spacer that KelTec sells to help prevent rimlock is meant to be used with jhp ammo that usually has a shorter AOL.

[Antihero]

Well i was just told that the P3at was backordered for about 2 months, so that might be a concern too.

In general though GunTests had an article where the 32 was below 100ft-lbs with all the loads fired. The 380 was between 122 and 137ftlbs. The guns are the same size, why not go with the more powerful round?

[Whirlwind06]

I had a KT .380 put on the mag extenders and a rubber slip on grip. Still had trouble getting good groups. Bought a KT P32 I get better groups with it then I ever did with the .380. I'm sure it was just me, not the gun. But I would rather have a slightly less powerful round that I can hit with, then one that is all over the place on a target.

[106rr]

The 32 is usually about 30% more accurate than the 380 in the same platform. I use a 32 and would not switch to the 380. Moving to the 380 is not necessarily an upgrade if you lose the ability to unjam the piece. There is no slide lock on the 380. This remark only applies to KelTec.
The biggest problem with mouseguns is hitting your target. The 380 has too much recoil for extensive practice so necessary for mousegun defense.
There are legal restrictions in CA that prohibit the P3at. I bought my p32 before the deadline that blocked their sale in CA. No new KelTec 32s or 380s can be sold to non LEOs in this state. The SU16CA is available here but not he standard SU16.

[The Amigo]

I guess it comes down to what u shoot best but just to clarify some points...
Keltec has a mag extension that put round count on the .380 to 8 rounds not 7 that's what i use and they work flawlessly. Another point .380 has less malfunctions than .32 in keltec due to the rim lock. Do you like a gun that you can shoot good accurate but might not go bang? that's why my brother did the upgrade. Even do there's a fix for the rim lock he just felt uneasy. I guarantee you I'm as deadly with a .32 as with my .380 the .32 is not 30% more accurate... I believe usually its the person behind the gun that might not be used to the slightly larger recoil of the larger round. My point is practice makes perfect go to the range and burn a few once a while. My other point is how can a slide lock make a gun more lock prone? A crappy or dirty gun will give u trouble regardless of a slide lock, u will still have to remove the mag and slide the slide back to clear. All a slide lock does is indicate the gun is empty, and you will still need to pull back on the slide once you load the new mag in there in a .32 anyways. If none of what i said convinces you to switch the by all means carry the .32 it beats having a newspaper to defend yourself. Here's a pic my p3 with the +1 extension and a test done with the .32 so you can make a better choice of ammo if that's what you are limited to have. Don't get me wrong both are deadly rounds and didn't Hitler ended up himself with a .32 that went straight thru his skull and exited. No offense to any of you friends just that i like the .380 so much I'm thinking of kicking my wife out to sleep with my .380:evil: hope this helps
http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10-21.html

[Whirlwind06]

I believe usually its the person behind the gun that might not be used to the slightly larger recoil of the larger round. My point is practice makes perfect go to the range and burn a few once a while.

Recoil is a very subjective thing. You make this blanket statement that that really only applies to you. I don't really care how well you shoot your pistol or your kid sister that is 90 pounds soaking wet. Nether of you will be backing me up if I would ever need to defend myself. What matters is how well I shoot my pistols and how confident I am in my ability with a given pistol.

I have yet to have a rim lock problem. I only shoot FMJ to me that is the best round for the .32 anyways. 50 rounds of .380 and my hand was numb. 100 rounds of .32 and no problems. Ready to shoot another pistol.

[The Amigo]

If you read my first line that that mentions" what u shoot best":confused: , That's what I meant no need to get fired up. It wasn't a blanket statement just my 2c based on my experience. Shoot what u please...

[ogivemeplat]

Bought .32 for the wife. She dislikes the trigger. Bought her the 10 round mag so that she can get a grip on it. Hogue grip didn't seem to work out too well.
I carry it sometimes, it's an incredible piece.
Sorted through three at the dealer to find one that didn't have a ring inside the barrel where it is pressed into the block. (One of the clerks was not impressed with me taking them all apart).
It's not been entirely reliable, think I have to give it a F&B, maybe get the mag spacer. She has my Glock until then :)
And yes, if you load it without being careful, it can rimlock.

Didn't think the 380 would be much of an improvement, feeling that size-wise the package was maxed out with the 32.
But then a nice guy at the range let me try his.

Even more impressed than with the .32.
Intrinsically more reliable due to the rimless round.
Snappy, but not all that much different than the .32.
I'll be getting one for myself in due course, and a P9L for the wife.
(Or a Smith 340 or similar, we shall see).

I think that either one is an excellent choice for a BUG, but I'd take a 380 if I had the option.

No animals were harmed in the forming of these opinions. Yet.

[The Amigo]

Have u tried the bersa finger extension? some like it. And have you tried the wire trick to prevent rimlock? Heres a shortcut on how to do it. http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/flyerwire.htm http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/p3at-fingerrest.htm

[40jjb]

If you choose the 32 acp try and test the 32 acp 73 gr. Fiocchi FMJ, I shot it this week end as follow, Through a 1/8 aluminum plat, backed by a 580 page phone book,backed by a 5 gallon paint drum full of water and the little thing whent through all Items and got lost in the woolds some were, Now witch one you should have, Do some test on youre oun. Stay away from some American ammo makers is all hipes, Try those fiocchis in 32 acp or 380 acp, You will like any of them.......:) :D

[kokapelli]

If you choose the 32 acp try and test the 32 acp 73 gr. Fiocchi FMJ, I shot it this week end as follow, Through a 1/8 aluminum plat, backed by a 580 page phone book,backed by a 5 gallon paint drum full of water and the little thing whent through all Items and got lost in the woolds some were, Now witch one you should have, Do some test on youre oun. Stay away from some American ammo makers is all hipes, Try those fiocchis in 32 acp or 380 acp, You will like any of them.......

Next time I want to kill a plat:what: I'll use Focchi instead of that inferior American made ammo.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
To be serious, about Fiocchi in 32 acp. If you check the ktog group, there are a lot of complaints about mis-fires with Fiocchi due to their hard primers. Fiocchi, not a good choice in 32 acp when your life depends on it.

[MCgunner]

Get a P11 and quit messin' with mouse guns. :D

I have a .380. Ain't exactly a .454 Casull for recoil. :rolleyes: It ain't a P3AT, though, an old Grendel P12 that works great and I've never bought another .380. Don't really carry it much, only on the rare occasion I HAVE to for concealment reasons. That's why I haven't gotten a P3AT (smaller), I'd never carry it. The P12 has an advantage over the P3AT, too, holds 12 rounds. With an extra mag, I am carryin' 23 rounds in a very tight, small package. :D The Grendel has held up though probably 2 or 3K rounds max. I hardly ever shoot it, but have had it for a long time now.

On ammo, you have your expansion guys and your penetration guys. I used to be an expansion guy like I am with more powerful calibers, but discussions on penetration with .380 and some jello tests and the minimal energy of the caliber and, well, my lack of confidence in the caliber has lead me to the penetration camp on this one. I've still got some 90 grain JHP Hornady's loaded up for it, but I've also got a 105 grain sharp shouldered cast SWC I shoot in that gun that feeds 100 percent, practice with it. It's accurate (accuracy is relative in .380s) and it has the weight. I have a hot handload for that bullet, pushes over 220 ft lbs out of that gun. I'm thinking a change in carry ammo is in the works. I need to load up a box, don't have any on hand. But, I put it off since I never carry the gun and right now I'm a little slack on .380 brass.

[ArchAngelCD]

I will be getting a PF-9 as soon as all the bugs are worked out of this amazing 9mm and use the 32 as a BUG. Should I upgrade to the 380????
That statement should have been in the Poll question.

If you were only going to carry 1 gun I would have voted to upgrade to the .380 but since it will soon be your BUG then I see no reason to buy the .380 when the .32 will be just as good a BUG as the .380. Save the money for ammo, you will need it!! We are all going to need more money for ammo from now on.

[40jjb]

It is strange how many poeple complane just becouse ammo comp. Is not American. On my p32 and P3AT I have not had any miss fire do to any reason.......:neener: :mad: :evil: :fire: :banghead: :banghead: So instead of reeding about it, By a box and try it on youre pistola !!!!!!!!!!:banghead: :evil: :what:

[Antihero]

It is strange how many poeple complane just becouse ammo comp. Is not American. On my p32 and P3AT I have not had any miss fire do to any reason....... So instead of reeding about it, By a box and try it on youre pistola !!!!!!!!!!

Most people dont give a crap where the ammo is made as long as it works. I fired Fiocchi 9mm thru my Ruger p-85 and found it to be inconsistant and inaccurate. America bashing isnt cool at all.

[40jjb]

I am not bashing AMERICA, With My Kel tecs The Fiocchis work great, SO DO NOT MAKE IT A POLITICAL DISCUTION!!!!:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: If it works it works weather you like it or not:banghead: :banghead: :what:

[40jjb]

I Like deep penetration on the BG, To get to vital org, I am a firm boliver in Cor bons or FMJ for these minuet CAL:fire: I have seen a guy get shot in the mouth with a 380 acp FMJ all the teeth on his right side were broken and he was dead, One shot stop.

:what: :scrutiny: :D

[Antihero]

I am not bashing AMERICA, With My Kel tecs The Fiocchis work great, SO DO NOT MAKE IT A POLITICAL DISCUTION!!!! If it works it works weather you like it or not

Dude, first of all cut down on the emoticons/smilies, you know these:what: :mad: :barf: :uhoh: One or 2 gets the point across.

Second you're the one that said and i quote:
Stay away from some American ammo makers is all hipes

Im guessing you meant "hype" but frankly i can be sure. You're basically saying american ammo sucks, not "I dont like Winchester" or I dont like Remington" you said specifically american. Im not making this a political stand, its asinine to not like an ammo because its from america. For the record i use wolf quite a bit and its Russian ammo. I dont care where its made as long as it works.


I Like deep penetration on the BG, To get to vital org, I am a firm boliver in Cor bons or FMJ for these minuet CAL I have seen a guy get shot in the mouth with a 380 acp FMJ all the teeth on his right side were broken and he was dead, One shot stop.


Thirdly CorBon is an american brand. Evidentally they arent "hype". Personally i believe the only reason to use FMJ is for reliability reason i.e your gun wont feed anything else. The idea is to dump as much energy into the target while making the most damage. FMJ doesnt do that.

[106rr]

The best ammo that I can find is the RWS, it's steel jacketed, accurate, powerful and reliable. The Fiocchi is also good but I get light strikes with S&B.
I understand the principle of rimlock but I have never had it happen to me and I shot alot of 32ACP in three different handguns.
Please remember that KelTec is not advertising either piece as a battle pistol. These are ultra compact back up guns for occasions when nothing else will fit in. They are breaking new ground with the design envelope. It is an enormous amount of controllable firepower for 6.6 oz 3/4" thick tiny package.

[40jjb]

Yes, I am referring to winchesters, remingtons 32 acp, Federals Hydroshocks to name some. So its not American bashing, You see GOLD DOT also makes some desent rounds. I chose the Fiocchis becouse in my kel tecs they function great!:) Stick to what works in youres.

[40jjb]

The 32 acp FMJ is the only rnd 71 gr or 73 gr. that equals in energy its hollopint counter parts of the same caliber, Most of all the amount of energy that is present in these minute rnd are not much of a diference to even go into details, Unless you apply that principal to Lets say 9mm or more.:cool:

[kokapelli]

The 32 acp FMJ is the only rnd 71 gr or 73 gr. that equals in energy its hollopint counter parts of the same caliber, Most of all the amount of energy that is present in these minute rnd are not much of a diference to even go into details, Unless you apply that principal to Lets say 9mm or more.

Means nothing, because It has been established that energy dump in hand gun calibers is irrelevant in stopping ability.

[MCgunner]

Thirdly CorBon is an american brand. Evidentally they arent "hype". Personally i believe the only reason to use FMJ is for reliability reason i.e your gun wont feed anything else. The idea is to dump as much energy into the target while making the most damage. FMJ doesnt do that.

Jeez, we're getting a bit off topic with the old penetration vs expansion thing again. Normally, I agree with the hollow point and energy transfer thing in much bigger calibers, but you're only working with 200 ft lbs here. There's just not enough energy to dump and expansion can (seen it in jello tests) dramatically affect penetration. Some loads I've seen wouldn't penetrate 6" and the bullet that makes a shallow wound ain't doin' much, especially with 200 ft lbs. We ain't talkin' magnum revolvers here and there's not enough bullet weight to have enough SD and momentum to allow an expanded bullet to have adequate penetration. It's a trade off. Therefore, on .380, I stand firmly in the penetration camp, non-hollow points. However, the reason I wanna start loading my SWCs is that the flat point will do more tissue damage than a FMJ, cut a clean hole without pushing as much tissue aside undamaged. FMJ, frankly, SUX as a defensive load. That's why the Geneva convention mandates it. Those WWB flat point "range" loads might be a good choice for the flat point, but they don't feed 100 percent in my Grendel. The flat on those hangs on the feed ramp once in a while and I have to tap the back of the slide to get it into battery. My SWC handloads are 100 percent slick in the gun, longer OAL is why.

The .38 special, I use hollow points and it doesn't have a lot more energy, up near 300 ft lbs out of a 2" barrel. Well, okay, 33 percent more, but still well short of the 5-600 ft lbs of a .357 out of a service length tube. But, I shoot a 158 grain bullet and it DOES penetrate even with expansion. While some will argue that energy transfer is still moot, and maybe so at these levels, no one can argue either the effectiveness of the round on the street or that an expanded bullet does more damage than an un-expanded one if you get adequate penetration with it. The .38, in all statistics I've seen and whether you believe the stats or not, out performs the .380 significantly. The .380's best loads are barely adequate and the .32, frankly, is a joke, down near .22LR and .25 auto, why I don't much care for .32.

This is why I prefer something larger than .380 to trust my life to. Anything .38 special and up and I have confidence that if well placed, it can do the job. The .380 doesn't give me the warm fuzzies, but sometimes, due to the size of the gun, it's all you can carry. But, it's just as easy to tote the .380 as the .32 mouser, so between the two, I go .380 every time. I really don't care if it recoils a little more. If I can carry it, I often carry a K frame .357 magnum with 125 grain JHPs at max load. The .380 is a girl's caliber, frankly, by comparison. :rolleyes: (sorry girls, not intended to be sexist, just an expression:D ) If you wanna get serious about self defense from a pocket, consider the 9mm +P from a pocket size platform like the Kel Tec or the little Kahrs. Now, we're up in the 400 ft lbs range with good +P loads. Now, we're starting to get serious.:D And, the little pocket nines are about the most powerful guns on the market that can fit a pocket, admittedly a large pocket, but I do it every day. I dress around the gun so I can have that extra power and effectiveness.

Yeah, I know, software is more important than hardware, but why not have both????

Means nothing, because It has been established that energy dump in hand gun calibers is irrelevant in stopping ability.

No one has "established" anything, it's just an opinion and we all know opinions are like, well, they're opinions. In the larger calibers, I think it DOES mean something. That's my opinion, but I concede that in a .380 or a .32, it's moot. There's just hardly any energy to dump. I base my opinions on hunting kills with major caliber handguns and in the writings of physicists and statisticians, not medical doctors and coroners or gun writers who think the .45ACP should be the only caliber available and the 1911 the only gun. JMHO though and I admit it. Why can't THEY admit it?

[Charles S]

I have a 32 ACP Kel-Tec and LOVE this little gun. I noticed that the 380K.T. is the same size ect.... Should I upgrade to the 380 and is it woth it?????

If you love your 32 I would not get rid of it. If you want a second then get the 380.

I love mine 32. I would not get rid of mine to upgrade. My 32 shoots great, is easy to shoot with very fast follow ups. It just does not shoot like a mouse gun.

Is the 32 better than the 380 on vise verse????? I've heard that the 380 is snappier than the 32, is this true?????

t is really a matter of personal preference, both the 32 and 380 are probably inadequate defense cartridges, however I do not want to be shot with either. The 380 is the superior cartridge some will equate it to the 38 Special's better loadings, but the 32 in the Kel-tec is more controllable and has a larger capacity.

The 380 is defiantly more snappy than the 32 is, and to my ears my more loud (that is just perception, I have not measured it).

If you can get a second gun, if you cannot and you love your 32 I see no reason to change.

[40jjb]

My kel tec P32 - P3AT all reliable with all tipe of ammo I have used, Cor Bons, Gold Dot, Winchesters, Remingtons, Eagles, Umce, Hydro shock, Golden sabers and others DO I NEED to say more:) If you love it You should not trade it but add to youre tool box A P3AT....:cool:

[45crittergitter]

I got the .32 before the .380 was introduced, then got the .380 when it became available because, well it's more power and it's my life. Best bet is get a Rohrbaugh 9mm because, well it's your life. FWIW, I consider the .380 a bit more reliable than the .32 since the .32 is semi-rimmed.

[40jjb]

If anyone has a direct email so I can send them some photos I have of 32 acp fiocchis so they can post them, I am a little computer challenged have not been able to post them my self.

[kokapelli]

40jjb: If anyone has a direct email so I can send them some photos I have of 32 acp fiocchis so they can post them, I am a little computer challenged have not been able to post them my self.

What kind of pictures?

Want to see pictures of 32 cal bullets?
Go here for pictures (http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm) and ballistics.

[40jjb]

I took a aluminum plate, 300 page phone book, 5 gal. drum full pf water, news paper behind, Then took 32 acp Fiocchis 73 gr. FMJ, It penetrated all ITEMS mentioned and I have pictures but do not now how to post them! the phone book got mangled on the exit side! prity interesting.

[40jjb]

KOKAPELLI would you like to give that info needed, Then you can post it?

[40jjb]

In order to have these picture on site, i need some ones e mail adress to send them to that person so they can post them, I do not now how to past and send them to this site.

[kokapelli]

I'm posting these photos for 40jjb.

He will explain what they are.

[40jjb]

Picture #1 Is media use to shoot the 32 acp 73 gr. Fiocchi FMJ at a distance of approx. 10 feet, A Aluminum plate, a 300 page phone book, a 5 gallon drum and some Sunday news paper in the back. The fiocchis when't through all the medias used, On picture #2 is the 300 page phone book left to right- 32 acp 73gr has entred from the left, exiting through the right you can observerve how the news paper was pushed out, the drum was full of water and it also whent side to side. Little test like this for fun by far defenetly not scientific are very interesting and ashooring that this minute round will function in a time of need. Thank you Kokapelli for youre help!

[dbracin]

I have both the .32 and .380. I shoot the .380 more because of the cost of ammo. Both provide me with comfort when I carry either. I prefer the .380 because it is a larger caliber and the ammo is cheaper. Sometimes bigger is better. :cool:

[PX15]

Isn't it amazing how as Americans we are always into the "if big is good, bigger is better" train of thought? Or, if a single four-barrell is good, then dual quads must be "real good"....

It seems pretty simple to me.. Carry the largest caliber firearm with the most rounds in it (of the best sd ammo available) and hope you never have to use it to defend yourself.

Now having said that.

I don't want to be shot with any round of any caliber.

I have had a P32 for several years, and it has always been 100% reliable, and from self defense range it is quite accurate. I only carry it when circumstances dictate I can't carry anything larger. It seems however that here in S. Ga. in the summer it's hard to cc anything any larger.

I thought about getting a P3AT (but keeping my P32), but for such a long time they were having problems with them.. I know you can go over to www.KTOG.com/or www.Keltecrange.com and get all sorts of "fluff 'n buff" advice, but I'm an old fart and I want MY firearm to work right out of the box. I don't have "gunsmithing skills", and don't care to learn any. I hear the 2nd gen P3AT's are pretty much trouble free, so I'll take another look at one shortly.

In the meantime, I'll just keep a'packin' my P32, or my NAA Guardian in my rear pocket in a DeSantis Trickster holster.

A favorite Uncle of mine (long deceased) was a moonshiner back in the late 1930's and '40's and in later years when he was sharing some of his experiences with me he said he always carried a "damn good" 32 S&W (revolver) for personal protection. I'm sure 1911's and such were available, but he apparently felt well armed with the puny 32rd..

So if it was good enough for old Uncle Eddie, I don't feel too underarmed, and a 7 rds of 32 CorBons are light years better than harsh words...:D

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

P.S. Now if you want to go really "underarmed" take a S&W Escort along with you.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_5268.jpg