[Hypnogator]

Well, after having my low-numbered P-32 completely rebuilt and having my P-40 converted P-11 reworked by the factory during a recent visit to FL, I went to the range the other day to check them out. Thought 3rd time back to the factory for the P-40 kit might actually be charm. Ha!

The P-32 performed flawlessly, going through the full load of older Cor-Bons I was carrying in it without a hiccough. On a side note, the new Cor-Bons I put through it don't seem quite as hot as the older ones. Wonder if they backed off on their loads? Also shot 50 rds of FN Flat-Nosed FMJs flawlessly.

I put about 60 rds of 9mm FMJs through the P-11 to check out the new magazine -- fed fine, shot well, considering the atrocious trigger pull. THEN, I put on the .40 conversion kit. Back to the same old problem of nose-diving into the feed ramp.:cuss: They did improve it somewhat, because I could push the slide home with only a little additional pressure. Of course, I don't have much use for a defensive weapon that jams every third round. Went through about 25 Seller & Belloit 180-gr solids to see if it would loosen up, when all of a sudden I couldn't get it to shoot. Pulled the trigger, but no hammer movement. Upon inspection, the locking block had moved, breaking the plastic grip, and trigger. That's the second time this gun has failed because plastic parts broke (hammer pin broke part of the frame before). The pistol has had maybe 1,200 rds of 9mm through it, and less than 250 rds of .40. :fire:

I don't care how good their warranty service is, I don't need a defensive weapon that is likely to break in the middle of a gunfight! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

It'll get refurbished at Kel-Tec again on my next trip through, then will be sold to some poor unsuspecting.....

Anyone know a Democrat who wants to buy a gun? :rolleyes:

[rock jock]

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but I consider Kel-Tec to be on the same level as Jennings/Bryco/Raven junk. Thier best products are maybe only slightly higher quality, but not much. I would never trust my life to one, and after owning a Sub 2000 for all of one day, I can say that I will never own another Kel-Tec.

[Pocket Pistol]

Here here :)
Never again.
They screwed me 3 times also, it won't happen again.

[denfoote]

Gee, I'm glad that I did not bend to temptation and buy that P11!!!
Engineering wise, this is what sometimes happens when you try to adapt a successful design (P32) to another application (P11, P40).

Another example is Glock taking a very successful line of 9mm pistols and ramping up the caliber to .40S&W pressures. You get more than the occasional KABOOM!!!! :rolleyes:

[WonderNine]

On a side note, how much have you paid in freight on shipping the guns back to the factory that many times? I'll bet that Kahr MK9 is looking better and better all the time....Especially when they can be had NIB $400-$450.....

[Gary A]

Denfoote - While neither defending nor abasing Kel-Tec, I believe the P-11 design was first, the .40 followed and the P-32 was the last in the series. The P-11 was not adapted from the P-32, rather more the opposite.

[flinch]

I'm with Rock Jock. I paid my money and paid and paid and sold it . Great concept but crap for construction. I can not have a junk gun in my pocket or night stand and wonder " well it worked some of the time at the range, will it work the time I really, really need it"?

[Ed Ely]

a great lifetime warranty and very good
customer service. Repair or replace, no
questions asked.

The P11/40 is truly a firearm owners friend.
You really get to know it when you do the
finishing touches to it yourself. Then, it is
a fine machine. Most people who own the
K-T expect to pull it out of the box having
paid $235 for it and expect the magic of a
$600 machine. I am sure that K-T would
and could make the $600 machine and proclaim
it works great right out of the box.

We all know better than that. Heck, just look
at some of the $1000 and up machines which
must be upgraded to meet the owners standards.

For all K-T owners, we know about -
www.ktog.org

Follow the fellow K-T owners advice and the P11/40
will perform and you can bet your life on it. Just a
small amount of effort on your behalf will produce for
you, one fine machine. Mine is SN11XXX, all three
flavors.

[justice4all]

Fortunately, mine have worked fine right out of the box, but it does seem to be somewhat of a crap shoot. As an aside, I wouldn't even want to shoot a P40, considering how much the P11 jumps.

[dsk]

If only Kel-Tec would spend/charge about $50 more per pistol beefing up the quality we wouldn't be having these discussions, and they'd be a kick-@$$ product.

[Felonious Monk]

I have 700 rounds through my P-11. A grip sleeve here, a mag extension there, and no problems...guess I should send it back to the factory, something MUST be wrong. :rolleyes:

Oh, and I forgot the 1600 rounds through my P-32. It really sucks, too. Refuses to give me an excuse to complain about. Durn it all!
Right up there with Jennings/Bryco/Davis....NOT!

[TarpleyG]

I like Kel-Tec. I bought a P-11, performed the recommended F&B, proceeded to the range and tested. Haven't looked back since. It has ate eveyrthing I have fed it. I paid $209 plus the transfer fee so I thought I did pretty well. I just sent the slide off to get a hard chrome job on it for $20 and they say it'll be another three weeks. That's my only complaint thus far.

Anyone contemplating a P-11, I recommend it. For the money, you won't find a better gun. JUST DO THE F&B BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. I think most problems stem from not doing it before going to test fire.

GT

[firestar]

I bought a 83K serial numbered P-32. I felt that after waiting a few years, they would have ironed out all the bugs by now. WRONG!

It would fail the eject about every other round. I sent it back and they replaced the entire top half of the gun for free. It has had no FTE since.

Recently, the trigger axis just broke. No warning, just the next time I tried to shoot it, nothing.:uhoh: It is scary because I had shot it and it was fine, I loaded it and put it in my pocket for a few days thinking I had a gun. The next time I tried to shoot it, nothing. I called Kel-Tec and had them send me the parts I needed to fix it. I replaced the parts and it seemed to work fine with dry firing. I took it to the range and loaded a clip and shot it, it worked for a few shots then it something went wrong. It would still fire but only after pulling the trigger all the way back with no tension then it would trip the hammer. I took the gun apart and found that the spring had slipped off the trigger axis.

I fixed it again but there is NO WAY I can trust it now. I will be selling it as fast as I can. I am done with Kel-Tec until they can get their act together.

[Hypnogator]

Follow the fellow K-T owners advice and the P11/40 will perform and you can bet your life on it.

Ed, you're missing the point. I don't care how much effort you put into making your P-11/40 perform reliably, You'll die with a broken gun in your hand if it disassembles itself in a gunfight. Same with any gun.

Denfoote will snort with derision, but I'm thinking it's time to try the Taurus PT-145. They've supposedly fixed the frame cracking problem, and nothing I've read indicates they'll fail in use any oftener than any other firearm. And I've always liked the .45, anyway.....

I know, I know -- There's one born every minute. :rolleyes:

[firestar]

Denfoote will snort with derision, but I'm thinking it's time to try the Taurus PT-145. They've supposedly fixed the frame cracking problem, and nothing I've read indicates they'll fail in use any oftener than any other firearm. And I've always liked the .45, anyway.....

Your going from a Kel-Tec to a Taurus PT-145?:uhoh: You are a glutton for punishment, aren't you? Why not try a gun that has a good reputation? There are a lot of small, light and powerful handguns out there that have good feedback on them.

Check out one of these before you buy that Taurus.
Glock 26
Glock 27
Kahr P-9
Kahr PM9
Kahr P-40
Beretta 9000 (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9297565)
Springfield XD-9 (http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9161982)

[firestar]

I'm sure there are plenty of other choices that I have not even listed. I just don't see the logic in buying a pistol with a know bad rep like the Taurus PT-145. It is not like it is all that much cheaper than any other decent gun.

Taurus PT-140 (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9215891)

[toby]

The CZ 2075 RAMi - the CCW crown contender arrives soon.... expect a flood of great reviews!

http://www.czub.cz/products/firearms/CZ_2075_RAMI/CZ_2075_RAMI.jpg

http://www.czub.cz/_en/pages/aktuality.php?article=4&archive=0

I for one am giddy with anticipation.

T

[jwrussell]

Well, I've had my P-11 for about 7 months with 600 rounds through it with out a problem. I carry it daily and feel 100% trusting my life with it. I know I can't be the only one with a KT that functions flawlessly. I've been impressed with it since i bought it. Also plan to purchase the SU-16 at the end of the month.

[WonderNine]

If the Kel-Tec warranty is so wonderful, why do people get broken guns or guns that break in a few rounds back from the factory and have to send them back again and again?



Toby, do you know if the CZ will accept CZ75 9mm Hi-Caps? I'm not a big CZ75 fan, but that looks cool! I understand of course, that they would stick out a ways. Looks really cool, I'm sure it will be far and above a P11 in quality, reliability and looks, and probably not a whole lot more $$$ either.

[makdaddy03]

Its just Keltec bashing. I have friends that shoot the crap out of their KelTecs with no problems. Im thinking of buying the P32 myself. OLEG likes his and I trust him.:) I have the Taurus PT 145 No Problems yet nearly 1000rds through it.;)

[denfoote]

Denfoote will snort with derision, but I'm thinking it's time to try the Taurus PT-145. They've supposedly fixed the frame cracking problem, and nothing I've read indicates they'll fail in use any oftener than any other firearm. And I've always liked the .45, anyway.....

You could do a heck of a lot worse!!
The Grrrrrr-yuck Perfection that I got to replace the PT-145 is toast!! :mad: :fire: :rolleyes:

On the other hand, my Ruger P97 is still humming along as is my :what: :eek: 1911!!!!!! :D

[gudel]

get yourself a real gun guys. not worth playing around with toys. spend a little more, so that you don't have to spend more on shipping charges and a bottle of aspirin.

[WonderNine]

Kel-tec is making alot of money by selling less reliable better looking Hi-points at Ruger prices. I must say, it's an excellent scam they've got going.

[E357]

I've had my P-11 and P-32 for a few years now with over 1000 rounds through each with no problems. I do, however keep them every well maintained. I 've installed trigger stops and lighter hammer springs. My P-11 has just as good a double action pull as ANY of my S&W revolvers (and I have a few).

Are the kel-tecs great guns? - NO, but the're ok, very light and very small. That CZ looks great, and I'm sure it will be a fine gun. It does weight FOUR times what my p-32 weights and some people consider that an important factor.

Elliot

[22luvr]

I've owned both the P11 and the P32 and they were polar-opposites, as far as reliability.

The early edition P11 drove me nuts and was sent back to the factory twice for numerous problems.

The P32, on the other hand, was totally reliable and I put about 1,000 rounds through it. I even tried to cross it up by loading mags with 3 completely different types of ammo but it shot them all.

Yes, I am fan of Kel-Tec products; however, it is also frustrating in that George Kelgren's ingenius designs often do not end up as well-finished final products. For instance, the trigger axis on the P32 seems to be the "Achilles heel" of that gun. Workmanship and quality materials would translate into even greater public accceptance, not to mention longevity.

It seemingly should be a simple matter to beef up the trigger and firing mechanism on these guns without adding more than a few ounces in weight and a few $$$ in price with the use of metal, rather than plastic components.

Like them or not, you can't argue with Kel-Tec's success. Although I'm not privy to production statistics, who else in the industry has exceeded the 100,000 + P32's out there without a government contract to pad the numbers?

I don't think any other manufacturer conjures up more of a love/hate relationship.......strong feelings abound on both side of the debate.

Am I going to buy their highly-anticipated P-3AT? Why certainly! :D

[JohnBT]

I'm glad they don't charge $50 more for every gun. So are all the folks who haven't had any trouble with theirs.

I sent my P-32 back to have the trigger axis repaired 2 years ago and it cost me less than $25. Maybe it was 3 years - I dunno - SN is 12xxx. It was still shooting when I sent it and it's worked fine since I got it back. And life goes on.

So I'm still ahead dollar-wise (compared to paying an extra $50 up front) and so are many others. And it was no big deal to be without the gun for a few weeks. It's not like it was my only gun.

John

[Drakejake]

Concerning the reported problem of the slide not going all the way into battery after a shot, although it can easily be pushed into place: I had the same problem with a Megastar which hadn't been shot very much. Eventually the problem disappeared. Perhaps the slide/frame interface needed some wearing in. So keep on shooting with the .40 slide and make sure to keep your arms and wrists rigid. The .40 fired from a small, light pistol puts out a lot of recoil and this needs to be resisted to make the pistol work.

I have to consider the Kel Tecs a bit of a novelty because of their small size and weight. They are clearly prone to jams and breakage but we put up with them because they are so damn easy to carry. I have the .32 and the 9mm, both of which are working OK at present. I sent the P-11 back to the factory some time ago and they replaced the barrel and recoil spring.

Drakejake

[firestar]

Kel-Tec owners put up with more problems from their guns than any other group of gun owners. 1911 owners are probably second. It seems like it is not really expected that a Kel-Tec should work out of the box. You people that think Kel-Tec could charge $50 more and deliver a reliable product are strange. These guns are clearly very cheap to make, anyone that has taken them apart can see this.

There are a lot of excuses made for the lack of reliability of Kel-Tecs, if all it took was a little hand polishing and tweaking after you buy a new gun, I would be all for that. That is not the case. Kel-Tecs will break without notice. This is a problem that you can't fix with a "fluff and buff". The P-32 will break the trigger axis with an alarming regularity. The slide-stop will break, the trigger pin falls out, etc., etc.

Kel-Tecs are designed for one thing, self defense, if they are not reliable then what good are they? I used to say that I would carry my P-32 even if it had jamming and ejecting problems because it is so small and light that it is worth it to have even one round. I figuired that even if it jammed on the second shot, I had at LEAST one shot for sure. Knowing that the trigger axis will break often, makes me see that you may not even have one shot for sure out of the P-32.

When they work, they seem to work perfectly. After the 1st time I sent P-32 back to the factory, it worked great for a couple hundred rounds, then all of a sudden, the trigger axis broke.

[WonderNine]

Sending the P32's back to the factory twice seems to be the average. Occasionally you hear of one that hasn't been back and just as often you hear of ones that have been sent back more than twice and/or sold.

[Pocket Pistol]

The purpose of a gun for self defence is to go BANG when you need it.
Not to be on its way to the factory because they have a good warrenty.
Try to explain the warrenty to the BG when you really need your gun.

[yzguy]

Engineering wise, this is what sometimes happens when you try to adapt a successful design (P32) to another application (P11, P40).

the P-11 was the first of those three.... the P-32 came later....

have you tried different mags for the P-40? are you using P-40 mags or P-11 mags??

never mind, you have given up, please sell it, and stop complaining....

and 2 times back to the factory is not the average....

[Dorrin79]

after another (better, too, in terms of accuracy) range session this last saturday with the P-11, it has hit 500 rounds through it.

It has had 2 failures in that time. After I F&B'd it myself, the next two rounds nosedived into the feed ramp. After that, it fired the next 98 rounds without a flaw.

So, personally, I have no reservations about depending on my P-11 as a defensive weapon. My only complaint is that I am still much less accurate with it than with my other handguns.

[JohnBT]

firestar - "The P-32 will break the trigger axis with an alarming regularity."

My P-32 broke it once 2 or 3 years ago and has been fine ever since. Where did you get the idea that the P-32 will break it with regularity? Or did you mean that ALL of them will break the trigger axis? I know that's not true.

And neither is everybody sending them back to the factory twice. Come on now, you're tending to exaggerate a tad there.

And like I said, mine never failed to fire. The trigger axis failure I had resulted in the trigger pull sloooowly getting longer over a period of weeks. It eventually would have failed to fire when the trigger hit the frame, but what idiot would have let it go that long?

As for the rest of the naysayers, some of you act like you've never seen a gun with problems before. That's why you shoot them 500 or 1000 or 2000 times before you trust your life to them.

John

[firestar]

By saying:
"The P-32 will break the trigger axis with an alarming regularity."
I meant that a LOT of P-32 have suffered a broken trigger axis. Just because you P-32 only broke it's trigger axis once:rolleyes: doesn't mean that it is not a big defect in the design.

I think a gun isn't reliable until you have fired several hundred rounds without a problem. The problem is, every several hundred rounds the P-32 seems to need repair.

[WonderNine]

Where did you get the idea that the P-32 will break it with regularity?

Well yours broke, didn't it? :neener:

[JohnBT]

Yup, but most of the more than 100,000 P-32s made have not broken from what I've seen on various boards over the past few years. Pretty good track record for a $199 to $275 gun.

Still don't see the big deal. Stuff happens. Fix it, live with it or trade it (reminds me of my first wife.)

I'm really glad I didn't spend $875 for a NIB Seecamp a few years ago when they were extremely scarce. The P-32 has worked out very well and it's a lot lighter.

John

[Handy]

For even a $200 gun, these seem kind of crummy.

The Rap pistol goes for $210. The Makarov, $170. The FEG Hi-power, $230. Kahr E9, $300.

The Keltec might be the cheapest plastic compact, but that's hardly a defense of shoddy workmanship.

A finicky car is good for cruising, not commuting. A finicky gun is fine for the range, not defending your life.

Maybe they should just sell the gun as a bag of parts - a kit gun. That way no one would assume that it's ready to go out of the box. Consumers can sand and file it as it goes together.

[alamo]

I spent $600 a few years ago on a Seecamp (before the P-32/Guardian were available), it was a jamomatic. To be fair, I only put 200 rounds thru it but still had the same problem. Sold it to a friend who was aware of the problems but knew someone who could fix it up. I suppose I could go on like some and continually complain about Seecamps but I've got better things to do. It is a fine pistol, that one just didn't work out for me. It happens.

I now have 2 very reliable P-32s and 2 Autauga .32s. Will be getting a Kel-Tec P-3AT as soon as I can.

[aerod1]

I like my Kel-Tec P-11. It has performed flawlessly for over 3 years. I do carry this gun with confidence.
Jim Hall

[WonderNine]

aerod1, it's hard to make a 9mm that doesn't work.

[RJ likeguns]

I enjoy my P-32. I will enjoy it better while wearing shorts this summer and still be able to hide the thing.

You could get 2 P-32's for the price of one Kahr. If you would happen to have a problem with one, then you'd have a spare! What would happen if the Kahr quit? Oh yeah, I guess it wouldn't since it is better, right?:evil: