[Blain]

Today on the channel FX is going to be an origonal TV movie on some bank shoot out (forget which one exactly, maybe LA?). Anyway, it looks really good. The criminals have AKs and body armor and the cops are mostly outgunned and such.

I suppose the confrontation lasted 44 minutes because that is the name of the movie! Anyone ese going to watch this? I sure has heck plan on doing so! Looks action packed, and better still, it's based on a true story!

[Justin]

It's based on the North Hollywood bank shootout from a few years back.
And no, it's not a good thing that it's based on a true story. People were shot during the course of that robbery. Luckily enough, the two robbers were not very competent, otherwise it would have turned out a lot worse.

[Shweboner]

I'll bet that its packed full of anti-gun propaganda though.



~Brian

[Pilgrim]

It will be interesting to see if the program addresses the shortsightedness of LAPD managment in equipping and training their officers prior to the incident. IIRC Los Angeles has been the bank robbery capital of the United States for quite some time.

[Blain]

Naw, the impression I got is that the cps are going to be portrayed as heros so I doubt anyting negative will be said of them.

Also, it is good that it is based on real life as real life is more interesting and educational than a fake bank robery movie. Not doing a movie on it wll not bring the officers their lives back. I don't hate WWII movies because Americans died in WWII, you gotta think about it.

[SquirrelNuts]

The advertisement on the radio for it today use the following phrase: "They were armed with military weapons," so I assume it will be pretty anit-gun.

-SquirrelNuts

[TheOtherOne]

The advertisement on the radio for it today use the following phrase: "They were armed with military weapons," so I assume it will be pretty anit-gun.

It will only be good as long as they make it perfectly clear that the AK's (Mak-90's?) they were using were not legal and banned under gun control laws.

Of course, fat chance they'll actually do that.

[Limited10Tom]

I fear it will be a typical Hollywood dramatization.
I fear it will not be accurate.
I fear it will be anti gun and more specifically anti assault weapon.
I fear it will be rerun over and over before the AWB sunset.

[SquirrelNuts]

Somehow I doubt they are going to give the robbers' side of things or go over their equipment in detail besides saying body armor and AK-baby killer model-47, etc.

-SquirrelNuts

[Blain]

It will only be good as long as they make it perfectly clear that the AK's (Mak-90's?) they were using were not legal and banned under gun control laws.

Now, be careful there! When you use that line of reasoning, you open up the possability to Antis that if real AKs were legal to own under gun control laws, that it would be bad. Thus agreeing that it is bad for real AKs to be legally owned.

[Greg L]

I also doubt if they will point out the fact that the LAPD had to borrow (now banned in Ca.) rifles from a local gun shop (since driven out of business) to help with the fire fight.

Greg

[TheOtherOne]

Now, be careful there! When you use that line of reasoning, you open up the possability to Antis that if real AKs were legal to own under gun control laws, that it would be bad. Thus agreeing that it is bad for real AKs to be legally owned.Yeah, I see what your saying. The point I was trying to make though is they should show the whole lot of good that gun control has done... those guys got there full-auto AK's despite the laws.

[QuickDraw]

One must remember that:
A.This incident occured in California.
B.More likely written in California.
C.Produced in California.
As such,will more likely have a huge anti-gun spin.
The sheep must be made to "feel" safe at all times.

QuickDraw

[makdaddy03]

Yep> I bet it's "Full of Anti Gun" Crap>:fire:

[SquirrelNuts]

So far it is starting out with ridiculous descriptions of AK's!!!

-SquirrelNuts

[duckfoot]

Watching it now

Not good for the 2nd.

[Arcli9ht]

Did they really empty an entire AK into the ceiling? A beta mag none the less? Seems to me, 5 rounds would have done the trick without making everyone in the bank so deaf they couldnt hear commands.

AK-47 Machine gun?


Gripe gripe gripe

/Arcli9ht

[FPrice]

First, wasn't there a question that these were fully-automatic weapons, made by a Chinese company that was connected to Clinton (by donations) that were illegally smuggled into the country? Or was this later disproved.

Second, if the rifles that the cops grabbed from the gun store had been banned for civilian use, and hence not available, or the gun store not there at all, wouldn't it have been much worse? So, the fact that such firearms can be bought by civilians made it possible for the cops to fight back successfully.

[Blain]

Yeah, FPrice, but the movie is skipping that entire gun store event. They changing the story, so that the SWAT team is what brought the ARs......


Other points that disgust me so far,

1. AK Machine guns?????? Guy makes a big point about how dangerous AK machine guns are and that the powerful bullets are designed to pierce body armor.

2. Full auto firing like he has a 200 round mag in the ak? I thought they fired semi only?

3. The old cop talks about Chinese made AKs...Think Russki, comrade!

4. The cop was telling a story of how the two guys got pulled over with an AK and 1200 rounds of ammo. Was acting like that was such a big deal, and to top it off, he couldn't believe how they got their guns back after serving a 6 month jail sentence.

5. Of course the worst part is, as mentioned before, how they changed the story so that the gunstore is no longer the heros with the ARs, but it is the SWAT team! Give me a break!! :barf: :barf: :barf:

[sonny]

So far it has taken an hour for them to reload.....after spending about.......um? 46 or 47 million rounds!

[Arcli9ht]

After seeing a bolt action rifle...

"I can't believe people can just buy this stuff!"


ARGH!

/Arcli9ht

[Blain]

OOOOOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

The worst part yet! They DID include the gunstore part, but in a NEGATIVE manner.

They go in BEGGING for weapons, the owners show them the ARs, CAR 15s, and bolt action 700 sniper rifle. Now these owners are saving the cops rear ends, and this one cop has the audacity to go

"I can't BELIEVE they let people buy these things!"

If I was the owner I would have kicked him out right then and there. What an ungreatful jack booted thug!!

[Arcli9ht]

Then they throw in the part making the owner look like a money grubbing a-hole.

"Who is going to pay for all this."

Well, I guess they did just take 7000 dollars in his merchandise, I would be asking the same question.

/Arcli9ht

[Mcmillan]

The first gunmen who got killed, put the gun under his chin, and shot and killed himself from everything I've seen. Just another way this movie is inaccurate. Why was the beretta so loud? This movie is a large anti-gun movie, and I'm sure the anti's will use this movie in thier fight. Such as the fully automatic gun, it looks like anyone can go and buy one, and plus I doubt that story of the criminals getting their guns back, I think they would realize them being fully-auto, if not it's the cops ignorance which costs them.

[Sportcat]

"I can't believe they let people buy this stuff!" :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

[ScottS]

The first gunman did kill himself in the movie. Thanks to TiVo, I can rewind and you can clearly see the top of his stocking cap "blow up" from the bullet under his chin. Michael Madsen's bullet didn't show.

I really like the SWAT-guy's malf--pull the trigger twice, getting nice "clicks" each time. DA AR-15's now?

Scott
Disgusted

[charlesb_la]

the first guy did kill himself in real life.

[Kilroy]

Just finished watching it....cop "borrowing" guns at gun store....
crying about having guns "like" that for sale. B&B Guns was not well represented, but they did give them the guns in real life.

[Mcmillan]

I'm not saying the cops didn't do anything, but I can't believe any of them didn't manage to shoot them in the head, or legs like the SWAT officers did supposedly shown by the movie. Also, when in the bank how in the hell didn't the suspects go deaf from putting out about 200 rounds plus. The mag changes in the movie were really off by the gunmen, but the on the police side the cops did a pretty good job of changing mags.

[Sportcat]

I was wondering about the head shot thing too. By know means do I think I could have done any better if I were there, but seems like one of the cops could/ should have scored one of the bad guys in the noggin'.

[makdaddy03]

Didnt both guys kill themselves? According to real life videos the 1st guy blew his brains out with a 357mag revolver. The other guy killed his self also in the videos.
And did you hear what the cop in the gunshop said.:cuss:
And IMHO. HollyWood SUX!!!:fire:

[ScottS]

I thought the movie was pretty loose about the second guy. They mention the only two who died were the "suspects," but they showed BG#2 alive but bleeding at the end.

I remember there was speculation they let him bleed out (which I would have no problem with, frankly), and the family sued or some such bull????. Only in America.

Also, TiVo shows two gratutious scenes at the end, during the voice-over. One shot of a gun display with a bunch of "evil weapons," and --get the--a bunch of ammo in clips--not strippers, not magazines, but clips. It looked like maybe the Manlicher-Steyr stuff, 7.56R?

Bad, bad, stuff.

Scott

UPDATE: The ammo is 5-round clips. Ammo has a very sharp shoulder, and a long spitzer bullet. Looks like the clips have 4 round holes in them close to the cart rims. Is MN ammo clipped, or on strippers?

[KP95DAO]

One of the end of story, on screen, written comments was that since then LAPD Officers on patrol now have "M-16 machine guns" in their cars. It has been a long time since a fully auto capable M-16 has been issued to regular troops much less the LAPD. But it sounds sooooo cool/evil.

[Gmac]

Did I see an AR go full auto?

[ScottS]

One of the end of story, on screen, written comments was that since then LAPD Officers on patrol now have "M-16 machine guns" in their cars.

"M-16 Machine guns" What is that...like a LMG upper?

Scott

[Baba Louie]

http://www.student.oulu.fi/~hmikkola/shootout.html

Interesting. I remember watching it on CNN (I think).
Scary to listen to tho. Can't imagine being one of LA's finest and what thoughts they actually had going thru their heads besides "Oh (expletive deleted)"

Adios

[Mcmillan]

Yes, it's true the family's gunmen sued the SWAT officer, and acoruse they won. They interviewed him on MSNBC, he was saying how he can't put his kids through college now, and I'm pretty sure he was kicked out of the LAPD. I wish I could help this guy, if anyone can find out about this guy and how to help him, I know I would.

[MAKOwner]

I made a different post earlier about where the weapons used came from. They make the comment in the show that the guys were arrested once with guns/ammo, which were returned after they got out of jail (misdemanor I guess or however you spell that). Obviously they sure as heck did not give these full autos back, not in Kalifornia...

I want to know where they got the darn things from, obviously it wasn't a gunstore or a gunshow or other legal means, or we would be beaten over the head with it from antis all the time... Heard Mexico but I would like a report or something that lays it out officially.


Overall I thought the movie was done fairly well. A couple slightly anti-gun comments, but the cake is the aforementioned "I can't believe they let people buy these" line. That was a crock, but the rest of the movie, and the shootout was done well enough I thought. Certainly better than this would have been on CBS or NBC...

[Stevie-Ray]

Very brave cops, but why no head shots? Seems like somebody should have been a good enough shot. It didn't seem like they were that far away.

[243_shooter]

Turning point folks..

Bolt action rifles will hence forth be known as sniper rifles..

Wonder if my model 70 in .243 will quadruple in value once it get's a nifty "pre-ban" title :barf: :barf:

Leo

[Arcli9ht]

In all fairness, and unless I have my terminology wrong, that was a Remington model 700 PSS with Leupold something optics, Harris Bipod etc. If that is not a sniper rifle, or at least a rifle commonly used by law enforcement snipers, I don't know what is.

/Arcli9ht

[ScottS]

In all fairness, and unless I have my terminology wrong, that was a Remington model 700 PSS with Leupold something optics, Harris Bipod etc. If that is not a sniper rifle, or at least a rifle commonly used by law enforcement snipers, I don't know what is.

It's also commonly used by varmit shooters, antelope hunters, etc. There's nothing on that Rem 700 that's even remotely "evil." I thought he would have said his, "...can't believe..." piece after the guy told him about the "CAR-15 [sic]"

Scott

[Blain]

Arc, the gunshop owner said plain as day in the movie,

"This here is a Remington 700 bolt action, the best sniper rifle in the world."


Also, prehaps it was a missunderstanding of mine, but didn't the real shoot out suspects only use semi-auto fire, no FA? Also, did they really use those 75 round beta C mags? Lots of places that looked like they were embelished.

[Bigjake]

whatever, winchester 70 all the way.

this movie totaly and completely BLOWS. the cops can't hit $hit, and one cop just expressed shock that normal folks can buy evil black rifles:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

edited some more -

GET ALL THE SEMI AUTOS YOU CAN!!! ***?? i thought cops were alowed class 3 no questions asked. me thinks they need the crazy arizona(?) sherif that went and bought a browning m2 for homeland security

[cool45auto]

I thought it was pretty good. Lots of Berettas! I didn't like the comment the officer made in the gun shop. Where can you find more footage of this?

I agree about the head shot with so many officers shooting at once but I wasn't there and have no idea what it was like. I'm sure I'd have been at slide lock with soiled pants.:D

[natedog]

In real life a believe they had semi-auto AK's (illeagal) that had been converted to FA (illeagaly). I never saw a drum in the whole shootout, and in the movie they were using the 75 rds. RPK drums, not beta c mags. it was ridiculous how the AK burst tore the ceiling down.

[Bigjake]

one of the cops with the revolver finaly pulled off a shot at about 50 ft that my girlfriend coulda managed.....

[natedog]

hey the cops have fingers off the trigger... thats good

[hops]

Saw it and was not impressed.

First scene. Cop can kill the unruley neighbors power with no repercusssion, but I have to call 911. Interesting message in the movie.

Were these 2 BGs really arrested before, let go and had their Ak's returned, like the police man character in the movie states? This sounds like pure unadularated BS to me.

Edited: got the answer to above question on another board. Hard to believe that a Judge let them off. Just bloody amazing. But it being the PRK, land of OZ, I guess anything is possible. Hope I can be so lucky when I get caught commiting my first major Felony.

Otherwise this movie is garbage. I think it could have been better had they kept the political anti gun rhetoric out of it.

[Wilhelm]

Ok I am half way through it as I type and I think its a crock. They just showed the AK's blowing through THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT of a patrol car. As I recall they had been arrested for misdemeanor weapons offense and they weapons had been returned. Only one commited suicide the 2nd was shot up pretty bad and died on the way to the hospital (like 2 hours later or something). And yes they had FA weapons. If you watch the real shoot out it was much much faster then it appears on the show.



Wilhelm

PS only about half the cops have trigger control.

[Telperion]

GET ALL THE SEMI AUTOS YOU CAN!!! ***?? i thought cops were alowed class 3 no questions asked. me thinks they need the crazy arizona(?) sherif that went and bought a browning m2 for homeland security

Nope, they have to follow the same rules; however, they are not limited to pre-1986 stuff and they do not have to pay tax on transfer. Sure, the department can buy the cool toys, but cops don't get to take the MP5s home at night.

one of the cops with the revolver finaly pulled off a shot at about 50 ft that my girlfriend coulda managed.....

Could she do it with someone shooting at her? :p

[Kevlarman]

I'm willing to bet that if one of the bank patrons had a CCW, they might have been able to shoot the robbers in the back of the head while they were preoccupied with the police out front.

[4thHorseman]

I liked one part of the show..... one of the cops did use a S&W 686.....:D
Can you tell I like revolvers?:D

[IndyGunFreak]

Another big mistake on the accuracy of the movie, is the rescue of the black officer(the most severely injured). He was actually saved when an armored car was driven into the area.

The first gunman, if I recall correctly, killed himself right as an LEO's round entered his neck and severing his spinal cord..., according to everything I have read about the incident.

The movie was pretty much crap... I was pretty disappointed.

IGF

[Wilhelm]

Another big mistake on the accuracy of the movie, is the rescue of the black officer(the most severely injured). He was actually saved when an armored car was driven into the area.

I am still watching it but if they dont put the OMG thats TAKTAROV!!!!!!! I know that guy. Anyway if they dont do the armored car thing this is just fiction.


Wilhelm

[Bigjake]

Ah, thats what i meant, i was just really suprised that none of the cops brought ANY artilery with them, you'd think SOMEONE would have showed up with a rifle in the first place. also, way to crush all my ambitions of dodging class 3 laws by becoming a LEO! ;) i also wonder why the cops just drove right head on into the last guy, if they seemingly had "the best sniper rifle in the world", why not just set up a bit further out and use some accurate fire. guess ya wouldn't know without being there, but makes more sense to me than charging a nut head on

as for the girlfriend.... wellllll, i duno about that, but i just too her shooting and i guess i'm really proud of her! :D

[natedog]

Question: Why did a California gun store have AR-15's for sale? They have been banned since '89.

[Combat-wombat]

"I can't believe they just let people buy these!"
***?!?!?!? Beep beep beep beep beep!... Anti-gun bias alert!!!

[Telperion]

Question: Why did a California gun store have AR-15's for sale? They have been banned since '89.

The '89 ban only banned guns by name, so at the time of the shooting, any post-ban that wasn't stamped exactly "Colt AR-15" was ok. In '99 they passed the "now you're really screwed" ban. :(

[makdaddy03]

Combat, Hit the nail on the Head. Assualt Weapons Ban is to go out 2004. Not now!!!!:fire:

[Blain]

Where can one find and watch the actual footage of the event?

[Boats]

The Discovery Channel did way better than this for a lot less money. Documentary versus Mockumentary I guess.

I wouldn't worry about the "national repercussions." If anything, the movie demonstrates that the NFA of '34 doesn't work, let alone the 1994 ban.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I watched it, though I wonder why.

As Boats mentioned, documentary vs. Typical Hollywood drivel.

Well, it'd be easier to list what the movie got right:
The date,
The bank & location,
The LE agency involved,
The two goblins and their history,
The illegally converted weapons - well, they got the models right but forgot to mention the rest,
The news footage at the end.

Between LAPD's own video unit, Discovery, A&E and a commercial video company plus the news outlets this incident was so heavily documented I almost have a hard believing how badly they screwed it up.

One goblin's family did sue, but I can't recall hearing the outcome.

At the time LAPD did not allow carbines (obviously) or slugs on patrol. Only specialized units had access to slugs. Between this limitation and the 9mm handguns, they were really limited in their ability to inflict damage on the Goblins.
That has since changed. Slugs and carbines are now authorized upon completion of additional training.
Further, LAPD authorized the carry of .45ACP on duty as well - providing it was in a DA/SA pistol.

[243_shooter]

In all fairness, and unless I have my terminology wrong, that was a Remington model 700 PSS with Leupold something optics, Harris Bipod etc. If that is not a sniper rifle, or at least a rifle commonly used by law enforcement snipers, I don't know what is.

I was thinking more along the lines of public perception.. You know the old saying "they won't ban your hunting rifle, they'll call it a sniper rifle first" or something of that effect..

Probably making a mountain out of a molehill with my statement.. Must be the paranoia setting in, better get the tinfoil out :D

Leo

[Hkmp5sd]

One of the end of story, on screen, written comments was that since then LAPD Officers on patrol now have "M-16 machine guns" in their cars. It has been a long time since a fully auto capable M-16 has been issued to regular troops much less the LAPD. But it sounds sooooo cool/evil.

Following the shootout, LAPD purchased surplus US Gov. M16s for their patrol cars. They were converted to semi-auto only, though.

[buzz_knox]

They didn't even get the weapons right. One of the scumbags used a converted HK during at least a portion of the real firefight.

[Waitone]

One scene surprised me. As a couple of units were motoring to the shoot out one ossifer on the horn said the units were not authorized to deploy the MP-5's.

I was under the impression there were no shoulder fired weapons on site until the gun shop opened its inventory.

[Wilhelm]

Naw the SWAT guys got there right at the end and took out Mataseranu. I remember cause the one SWAT dude was wearing shorts and for some reason that stuck in my head.



Wilhelm

[NIGHTWATCH]

How the actions of 2 could ever be passed off as a reason to infringe on the rights of millions I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND. :fire:

When the hell is the J.P.F.O going to release "Innocents Betrayed"? :confused: It was supposed to be ready last month. Gotta call em. In the meantime....

http://forums.allaboutguns.com/albums/nightwatch/Dont.jpg

[doctorhumbert]

BGs did have HK 93 (91?) in the shoot out. Though I haven't seen them use it in the actually news footage, it is shown in the after crime evidence photo. I was amazed by the firepower they had (apparently good taste in guns too (HK 91)), Beta C mag and all.:(

However I found something very ironic. AR15s borrowed by LAPD at the BB gun store (whom were unfairly portraited by the show dispite their part in the heroic effort) was actually BUSHMASTER!!!!!!!

yes, the same evil gun that was used by demented DC sniper recently.

Not many people praised Bushmaster for its use as good guys' gun, except by few Gun publications, but it was severely demonized after the DC sniper incident.

Lesson? Guns are only a tool. BGs makes them bad guns.

[45R]

After blasting several hundred rounds at full auto you would think that the AK47 barrels would have been trashed and melted!

Hollywood!!!!!:cuss:

[spacemanspiff]

after watching the discovery channels documentary, i was unimpressed by the overly emotional displays by dispatchers and fellow officers. in the documentary the audio playback of the dispatchers revealed they maintained their composure all the way through. they did their job without hesitation.
but in this fabrication put on by FX they are weeping and hysterical.

another thing i didnt like was that the actors did the narratives. i would have liked to see the actual officers involved narrate the scenes.

[Akurat]

The biggest anti-gun propaganda statement was actually a line by one of the cops, when he goes into the Gunshop and says "I need all the semi-automatics youve got........" :rolleyes: ...Store owner starts grabbing AR15's and one "sniper" rifle, lays them on the counter. The cop's line is "Geezus I can't believe that they let people just buy this stuff!" :fire:

Store owner then says "Well as long as you've got good credit, bla bla bla".....I don't know about you, but the last time I bought a gun a credit check was not needed to see if I was fit to own one :rolleyes:

:barf:

[Pebcac]

45R - you might think, but that's just about exactly what happened. BGs showed up with full-auto AK knockoffs among other things, and blasted away for quite some time. If you haven't seen the raw footage, hunt it down. Thank God they had firepower for which they had no training, or it could've been much, much worse.

I personally expect to see this re-run over and over, until the AWB comes up for a vote.

Did anyone else notice that once SWAT showed up at the end of the movie, their ARs were fired semi-auto only, while the bad guy blasts away with his AR full-auto? Subtle bit of anti, that. Sort of hinting that maybe the SWAT team's ARs were semi-only, in the same vein as everyone at the CP saying "Get all the semi-autos you can find." My understanding of what really happened was that SWAT tore suspect #2's legs up with 3-round bursts from under the cars, but somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

And, BTW, the reference to why the SWAT guys were saying to leave the 9mm MP5s behind is because they're not much good against armored targets, hence "use the two-two-threes."

Kevlarman, please tell me you're joking. Somebody's Smith Airweight or Kahr or the like ain't something I'd take out against two guys with automatic weapons who're standing toe-to-toe with a cadre of LAPD. CCW or not, I'm staying on the floor and hoping for the best until they leave, then I'm locking the door behind them, a la the bank's assistant manager closing the vault door. The LAPD can deal with the body armor better'n I can. :D

[Pebcac]

A link to an interesting article on the communications issues from 911 Magazine, including the issue of RTO emotions at the time:

http://www.9-1-1magazine.com/...rigg.html (http://www.9-1-1magazine.com/magazine/1997/0997/features/rigg.html)

I've noticed in most movies that communications issues are greatly simplified because most average folks have no idea how any of it works.

[JohnK]

They didn't even get the weapons right. One of the scumbags used a converted HK during at least a portion of the real firefight.

Actually one of them did use an HK during part of the movie.

[buzz_knox]

I must have missed that. I caught the tail end in time to see the cop complaining about civilians owning "assault weapons" and blew off the encore presentation.

[UnknownSailor]

Yes, both of the BGs used full-auto AKs at first, but one had a 9mm round bounce off the reciever and render it inoperable, IIRC; the BG in question switched to the H&K.

[ModIMark0]

A few things that were omitted from the movie:

B & B Guns also supplied the LAPD with Remington 1187
Police model shotguns (18" barrels and +2 mag extesions)
with slugs.

One of the LAPD officers liked the ARs/Bushmaster he
used that he wanted to buy it from B&B (don't know if he
did, but that would make a nice line).

All the ARs/Bushmasters in the movie are pre-94 (they
have collapsible stocks, flash suppressors and bayonet
lugs) when the ones in reality were post 94s.

B&B guns donated the firearms used to SOF to be
auctioned off for a fund to help injured LAPD officers
(they raised something in the neighborhood of $6000)

I also noted that the police did not have "assault rifles", only the criminals (as it was mentioned throughout the movie). And, as a result of the robbery/shootout, the LAPD (as well as other qualifying departments in the U.S.) have received M16 "machine guns" from the DoD, and not "assault rifles" to help them combat upgunned criminals.
I do have one question to fellow viewers: Was there also some sort of commentary by one of the officers or detectives involved that "the type of guns that they (the robbers) had could be owned by someone you know, in the car next to you, and maybe even by your next-door neighbor"? I was not certain if I heard a statement like that, but it certainly is unfriendly to gunowners.
Another thought: The slow motion shots of the robbers firing full-auto can be handily mistaken as rapid semiautomatic fire by the unknowing. It may be an appealing technique of cinematography, but also untruthful.

[teppo-shu]

Movie was a total POS.

You would've thought one little 7.62 round could take out a tank after seeing the size of the holes it was punching through car hoods, engine blocks, that little key-making shop, etc...

"Magic" bullets for "Hollywood magic"?:rolleyes:

[M1911]

They changing the story, so that the SWAT team is what brought the ARs......Nope, they didn't change the story in this respect, you are mistaken. Yes, LAPD officers did go to a gun store to get AR15s. But those officers did not end it, it was ended by SWAT officers using their issued guns (not guns borrowed from a gun store).

[makdaddy03]

Did the real gun shop have the very large GUNS sign over the front entrance?

[Hkmp5sd]

After blasting several hundred rounds at full auto you would think that the AK47 barrels would have been trashed and melted!

Not really. Full auto weapons like the AK, M16, MP5, etc. are air cooled and designed that the time it takes to change magazines is sufficeint to keep the barrel from being damaged. It would take a belt fed conversion on one of them to get the barrel to melt.

[5ptdeerhunter]

Hey I didn't see the entire movie but I don't think I will try to catch the end of it.

Ok I have a few questions. Do banks have bullet resistent glass for the windows facing the street? I mean the LEO's where all shooting right at the front of the bank and I don't see how they knew where the people inside where.

[Braz]

B&B is gone now,

Kalifornia is squashing shop owners left and right. The shop used in the film is Rettings, a few blocks from me. They sell a lot of LEOs their gear. I'm ashamed of them to let this crap be filmed there. Especially the awful line of "I can't believe they let anyone buy these!" Has it not occured to the producers that without that right, those guns wouldn't have been available for the GOOD guys? Somehow hundreds of thousands of Kalifornians manage to avoid robbing folks with them, or even convert them to illegal full-auto fire.

It's not the gun, knife or explosive that kills folks. It's the madman who decides life is cheap enough to use them.

[.45TCB]

My favorite Hollywood ""oops" in the movie is before the shooting even started - When Mario Van Peebles character is talking to the latino kid in the squad car. He gets out of the front seat, climbs in the back with the kid, and SHUTS THE DOOR! Now, I'm not a LEO, but I do know that on pretty much every patrol car, the rear doors can't be opened from the inside.

I was hoping his partner would have to let him out. :neener:

[Peetmoss]

The movie was pure CRAP. I was expecting to see directed by Micheal Moore at the end. He must have been at least a technical advisor or something. That movie just BLEW And the I can't believe they let people by these things comment about a bolt action rifle GIVE ME A :cuss: BREAK. On a positive note about that comment maybe hunters will get the picture(There coming for yours too)
CAR-15 and something about the miltary using them. I never new the military was in the practice of issuing semi-auto only versions of there full auto and burst rifles:D

[Combat-wombat]

they fired, what, like 10,000 rounds without reloading?

[DVDTracker]

Full auto weapons like the AK, M16, MP5, etc. are air cooled and designed that the time it takes to change magazines is sufficeint to keep the barrel from being damaged.

Check this out... www.a-10.org/video/kill_the_ak.avi

www.divx.com/divx if the video doesn't work.

[Monkeyleg]

OK, we've pretty much covered the gun stuff in this topic.

So, my favorite non-gun scene was when the detective went to the party house next door and cut the incoming power line with bolt cutters.

There should have been a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen that read, "professional idiot on a controlled course; do not try this at home."

[M1911]

He gets out of the front seat, climbs in the back with the kid, and SHUTS THE DOOR! Now, I'm not a LEO, but I do know that on pretty much every patrol car, the rear doors can't be opened from the inside.I noticed that too :rolleyes:

[buzz_knox]

Full auto weapons like the AK, M16, MP5, etc. are air cooled and designed that the time it takes to change magazines is sufficeint to keep the barrel from being damaged. It would take a belt fed conversion on one of them to get the barrel to melt.

Uh, not really. The BAR was known for burning out its barrels during fire fights, and the M4 isn't suitable for continuous auto fire as the barrel can get slagged by doing so.

[Hkmp5sd]

and the M4 isn't suitable for continuous auto fire as the barrel can get slagged by doing so.

Guess the one I have is a fluke. I've unloaded magazines as fast as I can change them on full auto and experienced no barrel damage.

And there is a big difference between shooting .30-06 in a BAR and 7.62x39 or .223 in a select fire assault rifle or a 9mm submachinegun.

[buzz_knox]

I guess you got a good one. The military units deploying the M4 were the ones who indicated the problem with continuous auto fire.

On further reflection (and to forestall further thread steer) I will defer to actual experience versus reported experience. But I would also maintain that the original premise that mag changes are designed to take a while so as to promote cooling isn't valid. Weapons designers know that they can't control how fast an operator can swap mags and thus wouldn't be able to factor in the cooling effect. How much cooling effect do you get in one or two seconds anyway? Besides, how long do you think they would be in business if someone found out they intentionally made a weapon take a while to reload and someone died as a result? Only when there is a sufficiently prevailing interest and no belief that rapid mag changes are necessary does the design come into play, such as the European pistol mag release that was motivated by a desire to hang onto mags.

[AmericanFreeBird]

The LAPD badly mishandled the whole situation, were poorly equiped and poorly trained for the problem at hand. Just as the FBI mishandled the Florida mini-14 shootout (by the way, mini-14's are still legal to buy and own) so to the LAPD came to a long gun fight with nothing but 9mm pistols.

They should have had at least 12ga shotguns with slugs and/or an AR-15 .223 as backup with each cruiser. Either one of them would have killed or incapacitated their AK-47 wielding problem children.

Never, ever go to a long gun fight with only a pistol, unless your pistol is that new S&W 500 Magnum! :D

I hope someone makes a TV mini series about the LA Rodney King riots where AK-47 weilding shop owners kept their property safe from marauding hordes of criminals.
:fire:

[Hkmp5sd]

BZ, okay, I agree that the cooling during mag changes is a characteristic that benefits full autos and not a design criteria. :) It just worked out that way on many, but not all guns.

[Bigjake]

someone tell me why the police didn't kneecap the guy sooner. Why was it that none of the leg shots counted for anything till the very end? cause you notice, the guy took a foot hit, then multiple calf and knee hits. you'd think the cops would've tried that sooner.

[50 Freak]

Did anyone notice that the BGs were taking shots in the arms and shoulders like multipile times. I may be wrong but doesn't body armor cover the body and a small portion of the shoulders. From the looks of the movies, the BGs were fully clothed in the keval.

Also, I've emptied many a drums on the AK till the point the barrel was smoking. And there was no barrel damage.

[Kevlarman]

The BGs were wearing Kevlar vests wrapped around their legs, which would've stopped pistol and shotgun rounds. It was not until the very end where the police were able to send some rifle rounds into them.