M1 Garand National Match


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Curare
June 1, 2003, 11:44 AM
I'm interested in a mid '60s Springfield M1 Garand NM in my area in near perfect condition. I've fired, handled, and read quite a bit on Garands but I'm by no means an expert. I have two quetions:

1. What is an appropriate price for a gun of this condition.

2. What things are critical to check when I go to see this rifle, i.e. proper stock cartouche, barrel stamp, trigger group number, etc?

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Swampy
June 2, 2003, 08:13 AM
Curare,

Is this rifle supposed to be one built up as an "official" NM rifle by US Army Armorors???? ..... or is it being sold as a NM competition rifle built up by a civilian gunsmith??

There would be a BIG difference in value.

Telling the two apart (US Army built and civvy) might not be too hard to do if you know what you are looking for, but the really HARD part would be trying to tell if the supposed "official" NM truly IS an "official" NM or whether it is one made up by a unit armoror somewhere (this one would not be on any records anywhere as a NM rifle), or whether it is a rifle cobbled together by a civvy somewhere out of NM parts and is trying to be passed off as a true NM rifle to sucker a big price from somebody who don't know better.

Unfortunately, this latter requires a LOT of study and knowledge in order to do with just a quick look-see. I own numerous Garands, love'em.... but I would not have the first clue how to tell a "true, official US ARMY NM M1". I'd have to go to my local trusty "Garand guru" (BIG time collector) and ask him to check it out for me.

OTOH, you can call the CMP with the rifles serial number and they can tell you "yes-no" if this rifle was ever on the ARMY's books as a NM rifle.

If they say YES, then yer good to go...

IF they say NO, then you've got a rifle that was either built up at a local unit level and was never officailly on the books as a NM rifle, or you are being suckered by somebody after your wallet.

Study.... tread carefully. Caveat emptor.


Just my 2 cents,
Swampy

Garands forever

ScottsGT
June 2, 2003, 08:29 AM
To start with, you have calle it "a mid '60s Springfield M1 Garand NM " If you mean it was made in the mid '60's, then it is not a USGI. Is it a Springfield Inc.? I understand that they made some way back then, but not sure. Try this site, but be careful, some of these guys have some thin skin. http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/garand/garand.pl

Steve Smith
June 2, 2003, 10:19 AM
If it was built by a civilian smith, that smith's name would be VERY valuable information.

Curare
June 2, 2003, 10:31 AM
Gunsamerica listing (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976353162.htm)

Thanks for the replies guys! Here's some more info.

I emailed the seller and I don't doubt the authenticity of this rifle. The condition, however, is concerning to me. According to the seller, the original owner had "clear coated" the stock. The seller stated Scott Duff believed this would decrease the value about $200. I don't want to deal with that. Visible in the pictures he sent me is fine pitting with active rust on at least the receiver surface. I also don't want to deal with that on a rifle that very well could be pristine had it been given a light coat of oil and not varnished. Given that, I believe the price is fair, but I'll wait to pay top dollar for one in better condition.

Swampy
June 2, 2003, 10:51 AM
Curare,

After seeing the ad it appears you are looking at the genuine article ;)


I have to ask.... are you looking for a "collectors piece"??? or are you looking for a very good "shooter"???

If you want a Match rifle to shoot, then you could have one built up for less than the $2k asking of that one, and most likely get one that will shoot as well or better than that one.

Just my .02,
Swampy

Steve Smith
June 2, 2003, 10:57 AM
Agreed with Swampy, if you just want a good shooter, you could have one for about 1K, instead of 2.

Curare
June 2, 2003, 11:05 AM
I want something with collectors value that I can punch paper with 3-4 times a year and admire.

Curare
June 2, 2003, 11:13 AM
Here's the rust of the story:

ScottsGT
June 2, 2003, 11:18 AM
CMP and Scott Duff. Kind of like Homer Simpson saying "Mmmmmmm, Beer" To a Garand Collector. Looks like a nice rifle to invest in. You might even be able to strip off the varnish and give it a nice oil finish, or better more, send the stock to Deans Gun Restorations. He is a MASTER with stocks. You can get his link from the web site I mentioned earlier.
BUT BEWARE!! There is a disease that is VERY contageous among Garand owners known as Garanditis. Once you have one, you want another, and another,......

Curare
June 2, 2003, 11:24 AM
The pitting wouldn't turn you guys off? If DGR could take care of the stock there may be hope.

Here's the muzzle:

ScottsGT
June 2, 2003, 11:26 AM
That's not pitting, that's character! :D

ek44
October 8, 2008, 12:51 PM
I agree the pitting is only added flair,I would like to know its barrels Me Te but you could still come out ahead,Garaditis will not let you sell it.:what:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg115/ek42/Picture041.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg115/ek42/Picture028.jpg

Gator
October 8, 2008, 11:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/zombie_thread.jpg

Onmilo
October 9, 2008, 09:15 AM
Hmmmm,
Two thousand for a Match conditioned M1 rifle might not be a bad deal.
It would depend on overall condition with the barrel bore and chamber condition being paramount to the overall value of the rifle.

M1s from the 60s should have an air guaged barrel with a date appropriate to the time of construction.
The barrel should be NM marked but this doesn't really mean much as anybody with engraving skills can produce the NM stamp to hard stamp a barrel with.
Bedding will be minimal and consist of Marine Tec epoxy if it is original.
Front and rear sights will be NM marked with a fine adjustment windage wheel.
The hooded apeture is correct for a rifle from this period but anybody can retrofit a hooded apeture to a common rear sight.
The rear sight base will be NM marked to designate the finer windage detent cuts.
Operating rod should be National Match marked and Remington or Springfield made.
All small parts should be replaced with postwar standard parts, i.e. Stamped/notched bullet guide, long rivited follower arm, late production follower.

Trigger housing will be engraved with, on the left side, and should be, matching numbered to the receiver.

Stock WILL BE, straight grained, and I do mean straight grained, walnut with a DAS mark.
There were no birch stock NM rifles made that I am aware of and none featured pretty figured walnut.
Birch and Circassion walnut should throw up warning flags immediately.
The finish was originally specified to be Tung oil and only Tung oil as it dried more thouroughly and uniformly than linseed oil and didn't leech when the rifle became hot like linseed oil does.
The clear coat only affects the "all original" value, (see below about those all important documenting papers.).
For a potential shooter it affects nothing including performance.

If the rifle meets all these parameters and the barrel bore is still shootable $2000.00 may be a fair price.
You won't buy a modern made example that is worth a hoot for any less.

If the rifle came with legitimate, verifiable, documenting papers, it's value would be several times greater to a serious collector.HTH

UNC
May 11, 2010, 06:10 PM
I have an original mint in the box type 2 springifield armory match garand...it has the original dcm release papers and, the original application papers with postal money order stubb from the original purchaser with his letter dated march 1970...it is in mint new unfired or once test fired condition...it is all original and documented well....will take $4000 for it...thanks , unc

Frankl03
May 11, 2010, 06:47 PM
This one may not be a National Match rifle but it sure looks like a good one. Its at Aim surplus with a new Criterion barel:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3JRM1GK&groupid=12

Just a thought!

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