[pluvo]

My Glock 20 is my primary backcountry companion, but I'm going to a 'bear dense' area this weekend & I'm looking for opinions on which longarm would be best to take along.

SKS w/ milsurp FMJ

-or-

870 w/ 00 buck & slugs

[General Geoff]

My gut response is "12 gauge slugs."

SKS will get the job done too.

[Waywatcher]

12 gauge with slugs would be my pick.

[tnieto2004]

I would use SKS

[Nematocyst]

1. Learn their behavior.
(Your ancestors did. Why can't you?)

2. Make noise as you walk.

3. Don't carry food into your tent.

4. For those rare recalcitrant griz
& polar bears that disdain humans,
and wish to eat them (rare in AZ),

870 with slugs.
Short barrel is best.

Then again,
some recommend
.454 Casull (http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan454.htm).

[12GA00buck]

I'd take the 870, dont use buckshot on bears, as it generaly lacks penetration. Stick with slugs. From my understanding the 7.62*39 is roughly equivilent to a 30-30, so it should be fine for black bears.

[ArchAngelCD]

The 870 loaded with slugs for sure. Even a 2.75" slug will do the job but you might want to load 3" slugs just to be sure.

Don't use buckshot because it only makes them mad! :neener:

[gyp_c2]

...take giant steps and avoid stepping on them when they sleep...:neener:

[hoji]

870 w/slugs. And I would seriously consider something a little more stout than a 10mm for North American big predators.Depending on where you are camping, you could potentially foul the action on a semi{mud, sand, whatever} personally, when I am in the woods, my sidearm of preference is a Smith&Wesson Trail Boss .44 magnum.

[Nematocyst]

when I am in the woods, my sidearm of preference is a Smith&Wesson Trail Boss .44 magnumI'm not too far "under"
with a preference for
SW 686 in.357 mag (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14798&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15705&isFirearm=Y).

Of course, my long arm of preference is ... (see user name).

Hand gun + long gun (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870synthetic.htm).
Ah, yes, the sound of protection.

Bigga bada boom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fifth_Element).

[Xigris]

870 with slugs.

[hoji]

I'm not too far "under"
with a preference for
SW 686 in.357 mag.

Nothing wrong with a .357 with hard cast bullets. what you are looking for with large predators is penetration.

[busdriver72]

I'm a fan of the SKS, but I'd go with the shotgun slug.
While the 7.62x39 is close to the 30-30, it is a very fast round. It has the potential of going through the bear while not really providing much knock down. I've seen the round go through objects leaving small holes. How many of us have gotten a good shot at a deer only to have it run off a we have to hunt it down after shooting it? If you are protecting yourself against a bear, you may not have time to carefully aim like you would with deer hunting. The slug would have enough "whoomph" on impact to discourage the bear even if it didn't kill on impact.

[rangerruck]

shotty.

[doubleg]

My suggestion..:evil:

http://hkpro.com/image/gmgcover.jpg

[The Rifleman]

You don't bother them and they won't bother you.

You have a better chance of hitting the lottery than you do of seeing a bear.

Most bears are more afraid of you than you are of them. They have poor eye sight and they aren't out to kill you.

I would also look into local laws. Unless a bear was killing you, I doubt if your state allows you to kill it..

CITY SLICKERS!:banghead:

[High Planes Drifter]

I agree with Bussdriver. Lucky killshot aside; I would trust a 12ga. slug to discourage a charging bear more than I would the SKS. There probably arent a whole lot of animals walking the earth that would not reconsider thier plan of attack after being hit with a 12 ga. slug at close range.

[B.D. Turner]

SKS or 870 for bear defense?

What kind of bear? Very important.
For black bear either would work just fine. .12ga, 7.62x39, 30-30, 45 Colt, .35 Remington, 32 win. special, 308 and .44 magnum all work just fine.
For grizzly I would go with slugs in a 12ga.
A bit of pratice with either would be in order too. Know your weapon. Know your limitations and do some study on bears before you go.

[sixgunner455]

In Arizona, you're just dealing with black bears, so the 10mm should do. Take the shotgun if you want. Quail and rabbits are still in season, after all.

And it's winter, my friend. The bears here don't exactly hibernate, but they aren't what anybody could call very active this time of year. Most of them are quite sleepy. You're much more likely to see a coyote, which won't bother you, but will take off running as soon as it sees you.

[Exmasonite]

i'd also try to have some bear spray... if you get the good stuff, it's got a good 20-25 foot range and the "fog" effect so aiming, while important, isn't paramount.

also, saves you from having to destroy a perfectly good animal. then again, if it's attacking man, it probably needs to go anyways.

[KenW.]

I've heard that Canadian Park Rangers carry 12 ga. with slugs. They should be the experienced ones.

[imprezagm4]

If you remember the guys who went to recover Timothy Treadwell... they were carrying 870's with slugs I believe, and used them to great effect.

[MCgunner]

For those who think 12 gauge slugs are the most powerful round on the planet and the Abram's tank should have it's 120mm refitted with an 870 shooting slugs, read this.. http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

The 12 gauge slug is pretty pathetic, actually. I can tote my .308 Remington M7 easier than a 12 gauge pump and it's far superior ballistically with a 140 grain Barnes X at 2900 fps. As they say, if you're going to carry a slug gun in brown bear country, take the bead off the barrel.:rolleyes: I'd think in browny country, a .338 caliber Browning BAR would be a good weapon for the serious stopper category. Even a .45-70 guide gun would be far preferable to a slug gun and a lot easier to carry than the BAR. If you're going to rely on the slug, best let the beast get within 25 yards so it still has a little energy/velocity left. Don't miss, it's the only shot you'll get. A hot .45-70 load makes more energy at the MUZZLE than a slug, let alone at any extended range and its superior sectional density will penetrate MUCH better.

Some of the specialty stuff like the "buckbuster" help out with energy and penetration from a shotgun, but I still would prefer an adequate caliber rifle to any shotgun. Shotguns are great for bird hunting, but they make TERRIBLE rifles.:rolleyes:

I have primarily concentrated on slug loads for hunting, for which purpose I feel that they are most appropriate. Even so, they are a stop gap alternative to a rifle, primarily useful where rifles are banned for political reasons. Shotgun slug loads intended to be fired from smooth bore barrels manage to combine the worst properties of any hunting projectile: marginal accuracy, low velocity, low sectional density, low ballistic coefficient, rainbow trajectory, and heavy recoil. Nearly the worst of all possible worlds! If you can legally hunt with a rifle, you owe it to both yourself and your quarry to do so. If not, but the law allows the use of fully rifled "shotgun" barrels and saboted projectiles, that is what you should use.

[KenW.]

You DO have to admit though, a 12 ga. slug is a formidible round. I took my first whitetail with a Winchester model 12 firing a brenneke rifled slug at the deer, about 65 yards away. A hit from 1 oz. of lead will discourage almost any aggressor, or take most north american game if you're close enough

the Abram's tank should have it's 120mm refitted with an 870 shooting slugs

Now you're just being silly. We should all know that the 870 not the best shotgun out there... the Winchester M12 or 97 trench gun are!:)

[B.D. Turner]

I thought this thread was about protection in bear country and not hunting. I could be wrong.

['Card]

With all due respect to Mr. Hawks, I'd have to go with what I personally have confidence in, and personal experience tends to be what determines personal confidence levels.

So if I was hunting bears? I'd probably take the rifle. If I'm choosing based on a defensive scenario, I'd go for the 870 with slugs.

[22-rimfire]

If you are talking black bears, I suspect if you don't bother them, they won't bother you. I like bears (in the woods) but I respect their comfort zone which I would guess to be 25 yds or more. First line of defense: make noise; throw rock or stick to frighten them away from you; fire weapon in the direction of the bear, but not at the bear (to scare); last resort shoot at bear to kill.

I'd take the shotgun if I had your choices and pack the Glock as well. If I'm back packing, I would just carry the Glock 30 and not worry about it. As Card said, I would never choose either to hunt black bears, but for self defense, they are fine as far as I'm concerned. A handy 357 revolver would be better, or a 41 or 44 magnum would be even better. But you don't have either of the three.

[dfaugh]

Not to be wishy-washy, but either one should be fine....You'll get a little more damage with the slug, but less of 'em. with the SKS you've got 10 rounds of pretty potent stuff.

[kmrcstintn]

Of your 2 choices listed:

870 w/ slugs for deep penetration and major vital organ damage; I am ?guessing? that you are equipped with a 12 ga thumper; in my personal Remington 870 SPS-T w/ 20" barrel, I use an improved cylinder choke and Brenneke K.O. 1 oz 2 3/4" slugs; the Brenneke is an 'improved Forster' type of slug that retains the wad that it is seated on and this provides stability in flight; Brenneke claims twice the penetration and 1/3 more retained energy over a regular hollowbase Forster slug

I do not play with semiautos for woods carry; I utilize a .357 magnum like my S&W 19 or Ruger GP-100 with 158 grain softpoints or 180 grain Federal CastCores when I can aquire them...price is getting too high for them lately!

[Cosmoline]

Make sure you load a x39 properly! SKS with heavy corbons, fine for black bear. SKS with FMJ's, not so fine.

The 12 gauge slug is pretty pathetic, actually. I can tote my .308 Remington M7 easier than a 12 gauge pump and it's far superior ballistically with a 140 grain Barnes X at 2900 fps. As they say, if you're going to carry a slug gun in brown bear country, take the bead off the barrel.

Who says that? I've never heard that. There are slugs, and there are SLUGS. This is why you should do a search for "Brenneke" and "bear". At close range a magnum hardcast Rottweil will hit with over 3,000 ft. lbs. and does not need to expand. The massive hardcast slug will penetrate like no expanding .30 caliber round can.

http://www.dnrws.com/rottweil.html

[MCgunner]

I thought this thread was about protection in bear country and not hunting. I could be wrong.

Yeah, well, black bear at that. :D But, when you mention you're going to want "bear protection" when you're hiking in the Ocala National Forest and think you wanna take your .41 Blackhawk along, SOMEbody's going to say it ain't enough because bears get to be 2,000 lbs of tooth and claw and you need a 12 gauge slug....never mind Florida ain't exactly brown bear habitat OR that slugs are pathetically weak compared to even the most NORMAL of rifle rounds like the .308 and severly lack penetration due to pathetic sectional density.:rolleyes:

On the thread subject, against a black bear, an SKS is enough except for the fact I don't think I'd wanna use FMJ. I, therefore, would rather have another rifle, say, maybe my lever carbine in .357 magnum with 158 grain hard cast SWCs. If I was really, really worried about the man eating black bears in the woods...:rolleyes:....I'd take my .308. But, I really think a .357 sidearm is plenty for the highly unlikely event that a black bear may pose a threat. Heck, I'd be more worried about having my camera handy and would reach for it, first. If you're half way woods wise, you know better than to leave your food in the tent with you at night, but at night a handgun is going to be handier anyway than a rifle.

Anyway, if you're going to Alaska and worry about self defense, you're going to carry a slug gun even though you wouldn't HUNT with it because you wouldn't trust it for a 1 shot kill?????? Me, I want the most power I can get and a dose of firepower wouldn't hurt, thus the idea of the .338 Browning BAR. I'd think a .45 70 Marlin would work, though. I'd think making a one shot kill might be more important on an animal that is intent on eating you, actually, than in a hunting situation.

[MDig]

Oh for Crying out Loud, We are talking AZ blackbears not AK Grizzleys. Here in MN to scare off a black bear all you do is bang Pots and Pans together. Black Bear "Attacks" are few and most of the time you can just scare them off. In the event they do become aggressive the 10mm should work. The SKS has similar ballistics to the 30-30 so It should do just fine too.
For What It's Worth you should be able to shoot the Handgun into the air and the noise will be enough to prevent any incident.

[Cosmoline]

MC--the short range ballistics are almost identical between a cranked up .45-70 and a Brenneke magnum. The .45-70 has slightly better SD and the slug has greater diameter, but it's a tossup at DLP ranges.

You're putting way too much into Chuck's rant, which says nothing about DLP shotguns. Slug guns have brought down a great many monster bruins up here. So that's pretty much the end of the issue. The slug guns are about half as heavy as your suggested .338 BAR and 1/5th as expensive.

slugs are pathetically weak compared to even the most NORMAL of rifle rounds like the .308

Dude, why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Did you read the ballistics charts I posted? A hardcast chunk of lead almost an inch across hitting with over 3,000 ft. lbs. makes a .308 look like a joke. THe .308's advantage as a HUNTING rifle comes at longer ranges, where its flat trajectory and superior BC allow it to retain energy and accuracy much longer than a slug. But this is irrelevant for DLP.

[SSN Vet]

when the Alaska State Game Wardens went in an pulled (what's his name?)the nutty bearhuggers half munched body out, and "dispatched" the Kodiak than ate him, they did it with 12 gauge pumps and slugs.

Article said they prefered the 12 gauge pump for it's reliability.

[MCgunner]

Dude, why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Did you read the ballistics charts I posted? A hardcast chunk of lead almost an inch across hitting with over 3,000 ft. lbs. makes a .308 look like a joke.

Foster slugs in 12 gauge cataloged 2361 ft lbs at the muzzle, about 900 at a mere 100 yards. .308 2600 ft lbs at the muzzle, still at 1900 at 200 yards. Sectional density .247 for a 165 grain bullet. Don't have a SD number for the slug, but it's pathetic. Cataloged energy for the Brenneke slug is 2538 at the muzzle. 1170 ft lbs is left after just 100 yards. Now, this is probably out of a 28 inch barrel and not those little 18.5" tacticool tubes that are easy to tote. I rather doubt there's much over 1200-1500 ft lbs left at 50 yards.

I mean, yeah, a slug is over-kill for black bear and since I don't live in Alaska nor will I ever get to go there, I ain't really all that worried about those 3000 lb bears I read about. And, this thread is about black bear. The SKS is plenty of gun for a black bear, though, with proper ammo and FMJ ain't proper ammo. I just get tired of people thinking the slug is the most powerful thing on the planet. It pails in comparison if not to the .308 (which I rather prefer), then to the .300 Win Mag or WSM or the .375 or etc, etc. Much past 50 yards, the slug is dead in the water. Even up close, I'd rather have the power of a rifle if my life was on the line, even my .308, not to mention the surgical precision. But, then, I always considered myself a rifleman. Maybe one of those tacticool ARs in .308 would be pretty awesome with a 20 round mag full of Barnes 160 X bullets loaded in it. I'd carry a shotgun if it's all I had, but if I lived up there and spent a LOT of time in brown bear country, I think I'd get something with some power and some firepower and some accuracy. Really haven't thought much about what cause I don't live up there. But, I don't think I'd rely solely on a shotgun for bear defense up there.

[The Rifleman]

You people seem to like big numbers..

45 / 70 is just a 45 Caliber rifle with 70 grains of black powder.
You might as well shoot a bear with a 30 / 30
30 caliber rifle - 30 grains of smokeless powder. They would both shoot accurately about the same distance..

I would have a hard enough time hitting one with a 30 / 06 govt. let alone a 12 gauge shotgun.. I have never seen a bear in the woods in bear season and only ever saw one once in rifle season in 30 years of hunting and 40 years of camping.

You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than by being attacked by a bear in the woods. Especially in the wintertime...

What are you going to do, douse yourself with jelly doughnuts and honey?

The first time my brothers went hunting with my dad, they sat on a brush pile and a bear cub came out of the brush pile and ran away. They didn't get skeered. They were only kids, 12 and 13 years old..

About a year or two later my one brother came into camp and said that they saw a bear up in the valley - looking for gut piles..
I walked right up to it and it didn't threaten me and only walked away. It was about no more than 50 yards away from me. I was 18 at the time..

I came across a mother bear one time on my way home from a friends house. There was 3 cubs high up in a maple tree. She clicked her jaws a couple of times and I spoke to her while I walked between her and the tree that her cubs were in.
The bears didn't bother me that time either.
If it would have, I would have went home and got my gun and shot her myself.
It sounds like I was really scared huh. I was 12 years old at the time......

If you people would watch more of the Hunting Channel and less of the Chilly Billy (scarey movie channel), we wouldn't even be having this conversation...

[Cosmoline]

Who's talking about 100 yard hunting? This is DLP. And who's talking about Foster? A 1 3/8 oz magnum hardcast brenneke delivers 3017 fps at the muzzle.

I don't live in Alaska nor will I ever get to go there

I do, and trust me hardcast magnum slugs have a tried-and-true record for DLP shootings.

[MCgunner]

Just a thought, but how about this for Alaska in 325 WSM? 6.8 lbs ought to be easy enough to carry.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=003B&cat_id=034&type_id=006


http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/034006m.jpg

220 grain PP bullet muzzle velocity 3060 fps muzzle energy 3939 ft lbs

It's showing 2600 ft lbs at 300 yards!:what:

Keep yer 12 gauge....:neener:

</threadjack>

[Eyesac]

+1 for 870 12GA.

If you're snooping around black bear country I'd say it's a bit much (.357 would do) ...but I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little over gunned.

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

black bears ....they come to my back door and sniff. They climb around my rifle range...when one is in the hood (neighbor-, not car), someone shoots up in the air (bird shot/clay shot) and it walks off, we all know its around so we can get trash in etc. I like stalking them up the mountain. They smell me but dont really care. I am not a bear whisperer nutball, I just have seen a lot of em around here and know from stats and experience they arent usually going after peoples faces.

They are more dangerous when I am riding because me @55 mph of motorcycle versus black bear @ 0 mph is a no go. :(

As far as defense goes, and I have been laying cold on the ground in the middle of mountains and felt that chill go right up my spine, heard my ears roar, and be derned glad I had something on me

SKS with heavy corbons, fine for black bear. SKS with FMJ's, not so fine.

I've shot some much smaller stuff with FMJ out of necessity it sucks at dropping a beast. It is much worse, or was for me, that I ever would have imagined.

ST

[MCgunner]

45 / 70 is just a 45 Caliber rifle with 70 grains of black powder.

Not coming off MY loading press, it ain't....:evil:

[vynx]

Whats DLP?

[razorburn]

Oh for Crying out Loud, We are talking AZ blackbears not AK Grizzleys. Here in MN to scare off a black bear all you do is bang Pots and Pans together. Black Bear "Attacks" are few and most of the time you can just scare them off. In the event they do become aggressive the 10mm should work. The SKS has similar ballistics to the 30-30 so It should do just fine too.
For What It's Worth you should be able to shoot the Handgun into the air and the noise will be enough to prevent any incident.

When you say bear, everybody thinks 2000lb beasts they see on TV. Especially the people who've never seen bears besides at zoos and tv, they get especially excited. But you're right, any would be fine for black bears. Attacks are rare, and even when they occur, they often can be fought off by people using nothing but their bare hands. Either gun will be more than enough.

[hpg]

870.................

[rustymaggot]

having lived in christopher creek arizona, right under the mogollon rim, ive seen black bears. they werent that big and they werent very agressive.

sks or 12 gauge slug, doesnt matter. hits count, so take what you can hit with.

either is good enough for az bears. they arent that big or tough.

[BIGR]

870 with some good slugs.

[MCgunner]

Whats DLP?

A little over my head, too. Done Laid Prone? Did a Loose Poop? Decree the Lord's Prayer?

[MDHunter]

or at least I hope not, you guys who are saying the ODDS of a bear attack are miniscule? Well, the odds of a home invasion are fairly miniscule too - but we all say to be armed just in case, don't we? So let's not knock a guy for wanting to be prepared JUST IN CASE.

DLP = Defense of Life and Property

As for the long range ballistics of rifles versus shotguns, most DLP situations are less than 15 yards or so, or they're not really a life-threatening situation, correct?

Michael

[busdriver72]

If a bear isn't attacking....then don't shoot him. If he is attacking, who cares what kind of bear it is?
I really think a 12ga 3 1/2in magnum slug would make even Bear-zilla retreat.

[MDig]

I am not saying that being prepared is wrong, I am saying that thinking only a 12 gauge slug will be sufficient for AZ black bears is wrong. I personally know dozens of hunters who have black bear pelts taken with 30-30 Marlins, Archery Broadheads, and .357 revolvers. To say that a 7.62x39 is not enough to kill a Black bear is ridiculous. The 10mm will do it too!
To say you would only trust your life with a 12 gauge slug against a black bear is to blatantly state that you know nothing about black bears.

[busdriver72]

Has anyone said they would trust ONLY a 12ga slug against a black bear?
I never said an SKS wouldn't work, I was simply saying what I would choose to defend myself against a sudden bear attack. It will surely kill a bear, but I was just mentioning the possibility that it may not stop a bear very qiuckly depending on shot placement, but being a semi-auto, you could pop a few more rounds within seconds.
Also, I'm talking about a self-defense situation where shooting the bear was my last choice and only at the last moment, not a hunting scenario.
Yes, an SKS, 30/30, 10mm, or .357 will kill a bear, but it will it stop it soon enough? With a high velocity round, there is the possibility of a lethal round not stopping on impact.

[MCgunner]

Yes, an SKS, 30/30, 10mm, or .357 will kill a bear, but it will it stop it soon enough? With a high velocity round, there is the possibility of a lethal round not stopping on impact.

I'd say to that, will a slug "stop it" soon enough? Have you tested this? You have a possible point with the .357 and 10mm, but the .30-30 is a stopper. The SKS is load dependent. I don't care much for 7.62x39, doesn't handle very heavy bullets and load choices are slim. A .30-30 with a 160 Nosler Partition is a good medium game round, has been for 103 years now using normal bullets.

I know a local guy who, when he got out of the service in WW2, became an Indian agent in Alaska. According to him, the Inuit shot EVERYTHING including brown with the .30-30. It ain't the cartridge, it's who's behind the gun. Inuits are efficient hunters. See, so right there I made the case for the shotgun slug on brown bears....:D LOL!

Getting back to black bear, about anything appropriate for whitetail deer will be appropriate for black bear.

[Cosmoline]

know a local guy who, when he got out of the service in WW2, became an Indian agent in Alaska. According to him, the Inuit shot EVERYTHING including brown with the .30-30. It ain't the cartridge, it's who's behind the gun. Inuits are efficient hunters.

This is true. Indeed, one of the most prolific bear hunters on Kodiak in the early part of the last century was a native who used .30-30's and even smaller rifles. He did finally get killed, but only after killing many dozens of monster bears. Forty eight IIRC.

Nowadays subsistence natives prefer the .223 over the .30-30 because it shoots flatter. I've seen many of them in the SW bush. They've given many griz the infamous "belly ache." But personally I'd want something bigger.

[CSA 357]

go ahead and get you a 458 winchester, :D

[Glockfan.45]

12 gauge slug in 3 1/2 mag should be enough to discourage anything present in North America from attacking. As far as a sidearm 10mm is more than enough for what you may encounter. IMO no handgun is well suited to bear protection. Of course do keep in mind that bear attacks are quite rare and should you encounter one please refrain from shooting it unless your out of options. Most of the time yelling at them and waving your arms will spook them enough to leave.

[pluvo]

Thanks for all the advice & comments.

The only reason I brought this up is that in 2000, AZG&F counted 28 adult black bears in a 3 square mile area, This was due to wildfires in the surrounding wilderness causing the usually solitary bears to share the unburned area. Even considering the above I really don't expect to even see any bears.

I normally don't worry about wild critters, but considering the area & the fact that young children will be there I just wanted a little extra insurance. In 30 odd years in the outdoors, my only negative run-ins with wildlife (aside from snakes & bugs) were a crazed possum in Louisiana & a javalina that charged me for some unknown reason.

I don't feel un(der)armed with my G20. It is my standard choice for the boondocks. 10mm is the biggest 'ummph' available in an auto.

[Joshua C]

more related to big cats, but you can draw your own conclusions, I'm sure. Personally, I don't know. http://www.african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm

[papabear47]

My .300 Win Mag and I killed two bears in June and August of 1968 using 180 grain soft points.A 280 pound black bear was a one shot kill at over 400 yards.A 1300 pound Toklat Grizzly was a 25 yard suprise shot (we suprised each other) taken while tracking a black bear.Four shots were fired, one left shoulder,one heart,one lung from left side and one over the spine shot as we both stumbled down hill....Give me a twelve gage and 00 buck followed by slugs any time at close range....This was the preferred load of the Craighead brothers when studdying Grizzlies in out western states....A .44 mag or larger would be my minimum handgun for any bear....Unless you have seen how fast a bear can move in the wild you cannot appreciate their speed and agility not to mention their stealh and tracking ability...Don't wound one and go after it right away,let it bleed and weaken,and get help if possible.If you cannot finish it off notify authorities as you have created a dangerous situation for anyone that bear may run into....This is what I experienced in Alaska on my uwn and was taught by a guide from eagle River Alaska.

[busdriver72]

I mentioned I was a fan of the SKS. I meant for just fun shooting, not for hunting or defense. The cheapest ammo is good enough for me since I just plink with it.
Say, hasn't Smith & Wesson come out with a small gun with defense against bear in mind?

[MCgunner]

I don't care much for 7.62x39, doesn't handle very heavy bullets and load choices are slim.
I mentioned I was a fan of the SKS. I meant for just fun shooting, not for hunting or defense. The cheapest ammo is good enough for me since I just plink with it.
Say, hasn't Smith & Wesson come out with a small gun with defense against bear in mind?

Yeah, I've got a pair of SKSs, didn't mean I didn't like the gun for SOMEthing. :D I have one set up sporterized and a Norinco carbine set up with a folding stock that's a fun plinker with cheap ammo.

I used to handload a 135 grain Sierra Pro Hunter pistol bullet (designed for the TC Contender in .30-30/.30 Herrit) in IMI brass for the SKS and killed one deer with that load. It was a good load, but that bullet is discontinued. :cuss: I really haven't messed with hunting with that gun in a while, but plan some hog hunting with it at night and need to find a decent heavy load for hunting. I've heard Wolf has a 154 grain spitzer that's good, but I can't find it around here. I might experiment with handloading round nose 150s (.30-30 bullet) when I get around to it. Would be a good project. I just don't have much faith in the 123 grain soft nose or hollow point stuff on hogs unless I can make head shots. The SKS is NOT a surgical weapon, but at 50 yards, it's good enough for head shots.

On even black bear, I'd forget about buckshot, stick with slugs. Buckshot is next to worthless IMHO for animals, good for burglers. I still have more confidence in a rifle of reasonable caliber, regardless. I have shot rabbits on the run with a .22, don't think a charging bear would be that hard to hit, frankly. It'd be a matter of keeping calm and placing your shot and that goes just as well for the shotgun. My rifles are a heck of a lot more accurate than my shotguns are with slugs, but at 25 yards and in, either is accurate enough. If you have more confidence in your shotgun than your ability with a rifle, confidence is probably more important than raw ballistics and theory. Either is plenty for black bear ballistically.

[Art Eatman]

Comparing the 7.62x39 with a 12-gauge, the 12-gauge slug definitely has more potential for a one-shot STOP. Dunno why it's even a question...

Art

[Joshua C]

Well, Art, I don't think the slug has much chance of dealing a one stop shot, unless you get a headshot, in which case the SKS is good, too. Besides, the SKS can shot quicker, and has a good chance of penetrating the chest muscles (if you'll read that article I posted eariler, the shotgun slugs don't penetrate too well against lions chest muscles, or those on a smaller leopard).

[B.D. Turner]

There is a guy in sell and trade section who has a pair of 870's mated together into one weapon. Case settled the shotgun will work.

[Nematocyst]

...a pair of 870's mated together into one weapon...BD, can you explain what you mean by "mated together"? I'm not quite understanding that.

Link maybe?

[B.D. Turner]

Look at the bottom of the main page under buy sell trade rifle shotgun. There is a guy there with two 870 Remington 12 ga. shotguns bolted together into one weapon.

[Glockfan.45]

I don't think the slug has much chance of dealing a one stop shot
:scrutiny: Your joking right? I dont want to ever meet the critter that laughs off a 12 gauge slug. Even wearing body armor its going to knock the fight out of you.

[Old Time Hunter]

Slug! BOOM vs. ping! SKS that's a varmint type rifle anyways, I'd rather have a .30-30...it's American, not some pinko thingy.

[pluvo]

The only wildlife we ended up seeing were a few birds & some deer. Seems there was much ado about nothing.

[12GA00buck]

"He shot the one lion at a range of a couple of feet when it was trying to climb on to his pole platform (basha) with a 12g shotgun loaded with slugs. The lion pushed off, but when Patterson finally killed it 10 days later (using a .303) he found both slugs stuck just under the skin"

I know that article came from a real African hunter, but I really doubt slugs would just stick "under the skin." I guessing there’s more to that story. Were talking about 450 grain chunks of lead moving at least 1600fps. I realize the SD is poor on slugs, but momentum i.e.(weight*velocity) also contributes to penetration. Ballistic gelatin has its faults for determining terminal performance, but Fackler’s results show 36 centimeters of penetration with a 1 oz slug and 42 centimeters with a .308 JSP.

Does anyone have any case studys on bear shooting's. I read an article in American Hunter (or rifleman, cant remember) where slugs were used succsesfully to stop a problem brown bear.

[melachric]

You might take a look at www.widewatervoyager.com

[shaggy430]

Holy Ancient Thread, Batman.

[B BRI]

+1 on the 870 with slugs

[B BRI]

and +1 on Holy Ancient Thread, Batman.

[hardluk1]

Use the shotgun and try remingtons buck slammers for a slug. It's not a sabated bullet but a full on bore size and weight slug. DO buy and take bear spray with you too. Will back off most any bear with out shooting and maybe wounding it. That would be much worse.

[MCgunner]

I've seen threads from the beginning of this board resurrected. This ain't squat. LOL

[natman]

12 ga with BRENNEKE slugs, not some soft lead expanding trash.

If you shoot a bear out of season it had better have powder burns on its chest.

[MCgunner]

Actually, as long guns go, I'd rather carry either my 20 gauge double or my .357 carbine, lighter than an SKS or any of my 12s. Well, my 12 SxS ain't that heavy and it's very accurate with slugs, amazingly so since it's choked mod/full.

[leadcounsel]

I've never shot a bear before and would prefer not to, so I have no idea what would be more effective between a 12 guage or SKS.

Have you considered a less messy and more eco-friendly and humane $40 can of Bear spray. Probably more effective too, and less dangerous. Imagine waking to a bear in your camp at night. Do you have a clear shot? What's behind the bear if you miss? Can you hit a vital area before it can maul you? Bear spray is area effect with little accuracy necessary.

[leathermanwave]

...take giant steps and avoid stepping on them when they sleep...

I know someone who literally stepped on a black bear that was sleeping, he ran one way and the bear ran the other.

Use the 870 with slugs.

[Supertac45]

870 with slugs. The 7.62 x 39 is almost useless. I'd look at a Ruger .44 mag.

[BillyDa59]

7.62x39 ball ammo makes kinda lousy wounds. If you gotta kill a bear with it, go for vitals. I mean I'm a fan of the SKS and all but I think a shotgun would be better for your situation. Not to mention that the SKS is a rather heavy rifle.